Would you be willing to break lore?

ArgonianAssassin

No. (Stick to lore)

anonymousshadow613b16_ESO wrote: »

isn't this game a 1000 years before skyrim so wouldn't that be 800 years before oblivion and 600 years before morrowind? Can anyone confirm cause i thought I remember them saying before launch the events take place a 1000 years before skyrim. And aren't the SP TES games 200 years a part each?

Also I think they should stick to lore. One of the reasons I play this game is because i LOVE TES lore. This is actually one of the first MMOS I actually pve because I love the lore. I use to only play MMOs for the pvp and that's it.

It might be 800 years Oblivion and 1000 for skyrim, but I believe Oblivion and Morrowind are only 60 years apart iirc, I could just be talking out my arse though.

ShadowWolf613

No. (Stick to lore)

Yeah I just looked it up. There all pretty close being that all the games other then ESO and skyrim are in the 3rd era. The only game that has 200 years apart is oblivion going into skyrim.

Rayadrel

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

The mystery was more or less solved with Skyrim, if you know where to look and piece together all the tidbits we've picked up, it's obvious what happened to the Dwemer.

Are you suggesting the Dwemer got bounced forward in time like Alduin?

anonymousshadow613b16_ESO wrote: »

Yeah I just looked it up. There all pretty close being that all the games other then ESO and skyrim are in the 3rd era. The only game that has 200 years apart is oblivion going into skyrim.

Oblivion can be in the 4th Era too. The beginning of the 4th Era marked by the end of the Oblivion Crisis. Yes I'm being technical.

AngryNord

No. (Stick to lore)

1000 years before Skyrim makes 800 years before Oblivion, 794 years before Morrowind, 772 years before Daggerfall, 766 years before Arena, and 278 years before Redguard.

isengrimb16_ESO

No. (Stick to lore)

According to this: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline:

----
2E 582

Events of The Elder Scrolls Online.
----

The second era ends in 2E 897. That's 315 years left until Tiber Septim takes over and resets the calendar.

Then:
--
3E 399

Events of The Elder Scrolls: Arena.
---
315 + 399 = 714 years in between ESO and Arena.

---

3E 405

Events of The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall.

---

Arena and Daggerfall take place only 6 years apart. So 720 years in between ESO and Daggerfall.

---

3E 427

The events of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind take place

---

22 years have passed between Daggerfall and Morrowind. 742 years between ESO and Morrowind.


----

3E 433

The events of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion take place during this year

---

This is also the final year of third era. 11 years after Morrowind, so 753 years between ESO and Oblivion, and of course

---

4E 201

The events of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim take place this year

--

So 954 years between ESO and Skyrim, IF I HAVE MY MATH RIGHT. Math wasn't one of my strongest suits, but hey, I gave it a shot.

isengrimb16_ESO

No. (Stick to lore)

And thinking on loss of information, imagine how much humanity probably lost in terms of manuscripts and art in 950 years.

Chryos

YES!! (i.e. I want Dragons and Dwemmer )

@Rial LOL I watched the video and of course I see your point. However I do point out the fact that games are made for the public, not the developers. Games evolve because of the people that play with, whether thats good or bad. In that video tho, it's bad. ZOS runs that game, but I wonder to what extend Betheseda runs the lore and changes etc? Or does ZOS have fulll control?

Rayadrel

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

And thinking on loss of information, imagine how much humanity probably lost in terms of manuscripts and art in 950 years.

And yet we remember major battles and events of antiquity even with our short life spans, the fall of entire empires and the burning of libraries and books by idiot vandals.

There is absolutely no way in a world where humans can live over 150 years, where elves live over 500, where immortal beings exist, where an Empire has ruled from the same capital for that entire time minus a few hiccups where they weren't entirely destroyed that nobody would remember a major Daedric incursion.

Up to Skyrim books record the exploits of the Dwemer, the Ayleids, the Sload. Every major event in the Empire. The Oblivion Crisis. The Chimer, the Maormer, the events relating to Akavir, the history of Yokuda and Atmora and all that.
But somehow everybody forgot and misplaced the books on Molag Bal's gigantic invasion? Oh yeah, everybody remembers who Molag Bal has had sex with, but not that time he tried to suck Tamriel into his doom portals?

No. They dun screwed up. Let's all admit this and move on from there.

isengrimb16_ESO

No. (Stick to lore)

I didn't say no one remembered, just that any books that might have been written about it didn't survive the wars and turbulence to come, for whatever reason; the fewer copies, the less likely a manuscript's survival over time. It really sounds like things go to total poop and alliances change like underwear for at least until Talos shows up; and even then, the continent STILL picks up a snarky nickname like "the Arena". I would assume the prevelance of books in-game is more of a computer game mechanic and NOT an indication in lore that books are as common and indestructible in Tamriel as they are in the rl Western world.

Do they even have printing presses, or are books still copied by hand?

Chryos

YES!! (i.e. I want Dragons and Dwemmer )

Dammit Rial now you got me watching all these WoW videos lol

ShadowWolf613

No. (Stick to lore)

Rayadrel wrote: »

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

And thinking on loss of information, imagine how much humanity probably lost in terms of manuscripts and art in 950 years.

And yet we remember major battles and events of antiquity even with our short life spans, the fall of entire empires and the burning of libraries and books by idiot vandals.

There is absolutely no way in a world where humans can live over 150 years, where elves live over 500, where immortal beings exist, where an Empire has ruled from the same capital for that entire time minus a few hiccups where they weren't entirely destroyed that nobody would remember a major Daedric incursion.

Up to Skyrim books record the exploits of the Dwemer, the Ayleids, the Sload. Every major event in the Empire. The Oblivion Crisis. The Chimer, the Maormer, the events relating to Akavir, the history of Yokuda and Atmora and all that.
But somehow everybody forgot and misplaced the books on Molag Bal's gigantic invasion? Oh yeah, everybody remembers who Molag Bal has had sex with, but not that time he tried to suck Tamriel into his doom portals?

No. They dun screwed up. Let's all admit this and move on from there.

Just cause something wasn't recorded doesn't mean it didn't happen. You never know. Books could've been lost and people could have been silenced. It's a time before there was an emperor. When one was crowned they could have silenced the happenings that happened.

Also you got to realize that bethesda never planned for an mmo. Bethesda gave the OK to zenimax to have this happen then. Bethesda has final say on what they do to the lore. What did you expect the mmo to take place? After skyrim? Then that would conflict with bethesdas SP games. It doesn't really break lore. It's just nothing was recorded about the events in any game. Doesnt mean it broke lore.

Chryos

YES!! (i.e. I want Dragons and Dwemmer )

"The mystery was more or less solved with Skyrim, if you know where to look and piece together all the tidbits we've picked up, it's obvious what happened to the Dwemer."

My playing this series has been sporatic over tha past some 20 years. I'ma have to find me a concise lore book to cover the main story lore. I know theres a, what looks to be a nice encylopedia type set, but i dunno if its all looks or if its worth getting.

Chryos

YES!! (i.e. I want Dragons and Dwemmer )

@isengrimb16_ESO Ok, the timeline helps alot! So there is a possibly we could go through the times with this game, which could be they're plan.


(Side note: Please make sure you help your brothers and sisters out by reactions. Hey, it's not our fault they made forums into a game wiith levels and acheivments, so pls hook each other up, i'm going back to give u guys your just dues as well)

Rayadrel

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

I didn't say no one remembered, just that any books that might have been written about it didn't survive the wars and turbulence to come, for whatever reason; the fewer copies, the less likely a manuscript's survival over time. It really sounds like things go to total poop and alliances change like underwear for at least until Talos shows up; and even then, the continent STILL picks up a snarky nickname like "the Arena". I would assume the prevelance of books in-game is more of a computer game mechanic and NOT an indication in lore that books are as common and indestructible in Tamriel as they are in the rl Western world.

Do they even have printing presses, or are books still copied by hand?

They are obviously capable of mass-printing.
Whether this is done by mechanical means, magical means or 10,000 Scamps chained to desks with paper and quills is irrelevant.
The evidence demonstrates that books are far too numerous to be hand-copied.

And again you're ignoring the fact that people in this world live far longer than we do, and their memories hardly diminish (well except Neloth, but he's an idiot).

Rayadrel

anonymousshadow613b16_ESO wrote: »

Just cause something wasn't recorded doesn't mean it didn't happen. You never know. Books could've been lost and people could have been silenced. It's a time before there was an emperor. When one was crowned they could have silenced the happenings that happened.

For what reason would an Emperor who would've had to clear the Daedric invasion in order to be crowned eliminate knowledge of their most heroic deed?
If anything, they'd embellish it. "I fought Molag Bal himself on top of the White-Gold Tower with bare fists!"

Also you got to realize that bethesda never planned for an mmo. Bethesda gave the OK to zenimax to have this happen then. Bethesda has final say on what they do to the lore. What did you expect the mmo to take place? After skyrim? Then that would conflict with bethesdas SP games. It doesn't really break lore. It's just nothing was recorded about the events in any game. Doesnt mean it broke lore.

Please read what's been said earlier. I hate repeating myself.
Retcons are not a bad thing themselves. However, unsubtle retcons that completely disregard lore are.
There were many ways to include a plot about Molag Bal's invasion without making it blatant and so in your face that history would have to record it.

So yes, they did break lore.

ShadowWolf613

No. (Stick to lore)

Rayadrel wrote: »

anonymousshadow613b16_ESO wrote: »

Just cause something wasn't recorded doesn't mean it didn't happen. You never know. Books could've been lost and people could have been silenced. It's a time before there was an emperor. When one was crowned they could have silenced the happenings that happened.

For what reason would an Emperor who would've had to clear the Daedric invasion in order to be crowned eliminate knowledge of their most heroic deed?
If anything, they'd embellish it. "I fought Molag Bal himself on top of the White-Gold Tower with bare fists!"

Also you got to realize that bethesda never planned for an mmo. Bethesda gave the OK to zenimax to have this happen then. Bethesda has final say on what they do to the lore. What did you expect the mmo to take place? After skyrim? Then that would conflict with bethesdas SP games. It doesn't really break lore. It's just nothing was recorded about the events in any game. Doesnt mean it broke lore.

Please read what's been said earlier. I hate repeating myself.
Retcons are not a bad thing themselves. However, unsubtle retcons that completely disregard lore are.
There were many ways to include a plot about Molag Bal's invasion without making it blatant and so in your face that history would have to record it.

So yes, they did break lore.

They didn't break lore. Just cause something wasn't mentioned in a book in a previous game isn't breaking lore. They are just adding something to the past which there was nothing before. I know this has been said but what do you expect them to patch all the games with books about it? Also you'll hear about it in the next SP game most likley.

Chryos

YES!! (i.e. I want Dragons and Dwemmer )

Now, next up for discussion:

Dragonborn... I dont see this as working, but if we go the route akin to being a Jedi in starwars for example, everyone would want to be dragonborn.

Do you see them making a dragonborn skillset or implementing that in the future?

ShadowWolf613

No. (Stick to lore)

Also about the dwarves. I read some of the wiki on elder scrolls. I'm just gonna copy and paste what I read here cause it's interesting.

War of the First Council
Main article: War of the First Council
OblivionSmall This section is a stub. You can help by adding to it.
At an unknown time, Dwemer miners discovered a powerful artifact deep beneath Red Mountain. Kagrenac, Chief Tonal Architect and High Priest of the Dwemer, identified the artifact as the Heart of Lorkhan. Kagrenac forged three artifacts that would allow him and the Tonal Architects to tap into the Heart of the Lorkhan and use it to power the Numidium, a massive artificial god. These three artifacts included Keening, Sunder and Wraithguard.[11] News of the Dwemer plan reached the Chimer Great Houses of Morrowind. The leaders of the Great Houses were baffled, and called for war against the Dwemer. Nerevar rallied the Great Houses, and prepared their armies for war, and very soon, the War of the First Council erupted. The First Council collapsed, so the alliance between the Chimer and the Dwemer shut down. The war was started in 1E 668.[33] [34] [32]
Battle of Red Mountain
Main article: Battle of Red Mountain
Probably the defining aspect of the Dwemer was their use of the Heart of Lorkhan. According to legend, after Lorkhan tricked or convinced the Aedra to create the mortal realm, they tore out his divine heart and threw it down to Nirn, to be hidden forever. Meanwhile, tensions began to flare between the Chimer and Dwemer once again. When Kagrenac—the Chief Tonal Architect of the Dwemer—prompted the discovery of a mythological artifact known as the Heart of Lorkhan by the Dwemer, deep in the mountains' bowels. When the Chimer discovered this, they believed that the Dwemer were mocking and disgracing their cultural beliefs, and as a result, a second Battle of Red Mountain erupted in 1E 700. Kagrenac devised a set of tools: Sunder, Keening, and Wraithguard,[11] to manipulate the Heart to instill divinity to his people, in order to make them immortal, but the spell backfired and caused all known Dwemer to vanish, similarly in the form of a Dragon Break, leading to their mysterious disappearance.[33][34]

whats a dragon break?

A Dragon Break is a temporal phenomenon that involves a splitting of the natural timeline which results in branching parallel realities where the same events occur differently, or not at all. At the end of a dragon break, the timeline usually reconnects making all possibilities and outcomes truth, though some of them may contradict each other.
The "Dragon" that is mentioned is a reference to Akatosh, the God of Time.

Chryos

YES!! (i.e. I want Dragons and Dwemmer )

anonymousshadow613b16_ESO says "Also you got to realize that bethesda never planned for an mmo"

This is what I am talking about, and this is where you have to be flexible if you want an MMO based off of your favorite game series. There is no way to not have an MMO and strictly keep it "by the numbers"

Rial

No. (Stick to lore)

Chryos wrote: »

"The mystery was more or less solved with Skyrim, if you know where to look and piece together all the tidbits we've picked up, it's obvious what happened to the Dwemer."

My playing this series has been sporatic over tha past some 20 years. I'ma have to find me a concise lore book to cover the main story lore. I know theres a, what looks to be a nice encylopedia type set, but i dunno if its all looks or if its worth getting.

Since Morrowind, actually. Or rather, in Morrowind exclusively.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/definitive-guide-dwemer#6

Chryos

YES!! (i.e. I want Dragons and Dwemmer )

Thanks Rial. reading it now,

Rayadrel

anonymousshadow613b16_ESO wrote: »

They didn't break lore. Just cause something wasn't mentioned in a book in a previous game isn't breaking lore. They are just adding something to the past which there was nothing before. I know this has been said but what do you expect them to patch all the games with books about it? Also you'll hear about it in the next SP game most likley.

You know what if you're not going to bother reading what I say I'm not going to bother answering you. I'd have better luck talking to a statue of Jimmy Carter.

Chryos wrote: »

Thanks Rial. reading it now,

Be warned the imperial library site likes to insert a lot of non-canon embellishments and outright fan fiction in between the genuine stuff.

ArgonianAssassin

No. (Stick to lore)

Rayadrel wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

The mystery was more or less solved with Skyrim, if you know where to look and piece together all the tidbits we've picked up, it's obvious what happened to the Dwemer.

Are you suggesting the Dwemer got bounced forward in time like Alduin?

anonymousshadow613b16_ESO wrote: »

Yeah I just looked it up. There all pretty close being that all the games other then ESO and skyrim are in the 3rd era. The only game that has 200 years apart is oblivion going into skyrim.

Oblivion can be in the 4th Era too. The beginning of the 4th Era marked by the end of the Oblivion Crisis. Yes I'm being technical.

No I'm suggesting they became apart of the Numidium, they got their wish and became infused with the brass god/brass tower.

Chryos

YES!! (i.e. I want Dragons and Dwemmer )

Noted Rayadrel.

Markethemetalheadb14_ESO

YES!! (i.e. I want Dragons and Dwemmer )

Sure. There ARE dragons alive now, anyways. You have;

Good ol' Paarthurnax up on the Throat with the Greybeards

Ahbiilok, who is rumored to lair in Morrowind. Most likely an area of Morrowind outside of Vvardenfell, as I'm pretty sure he'd have been featured in ES4 if he were there.

Mirmulnir, whom we kill in Skyrim anyways - but there's no reason we couldn't interact with him in the past we're currently experiencing in TESO.

Nahfahlaar, who was being protected from the Dragonguard by a king of Wayrest - Casimir II, who might just be the successor to the current king of Wayrest we have in game. So this alliance might not be too far off in the future. The dragonguard do chase him off eventually, but hey.

Source http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Atlas_of_Dragons

And, there's no telling how many got smart and avoided the Dragonguard's detection, anyways. Hell, there's an Enchanting skillbook in Skyrim wherein a man learns how to double-enchant an item from a Dragon inside a cave.

As for the Dwemer.. I think they're best left to mystery. I wouldn't mind seeing ghosts like we did in Tribunal, but that's all.

However.. ZOS set TESO during this era precisely because there was little established lore in the first place. As much as a lore-nut as I am for ES.. I say let them run wild.

ShadowWolf613

No. (Stick to lore)

Rayadrel wrote: »

anonymousshadow613b16_ESO wrote: »

They didn't break lore. Just cause something wasn't mentioned in a book in a previous game isn't breaking lore. They are just adding something to the past which there was nothing before. I know this has been said but what do you expect them to patch all the games with books about it? Also you'll hear about it in the next SP game most likley.

You know what if you're not going to bother reading what I say I'm not going to bother answering you. I'd have better luck talking to a statue of Jimmy Carter.

Chryos wrote: »

Thanks Rial. reading it now,

Be warned the imperial library site likes to insert a lot of non-canon embellishments and outright fan fiction in between the genuine stuff.

I did read what you said but you fail to realize the basics. It's not breaking lore just cause nothing was reported about it. Yes most cases there would be a history on it but there could have been some event that lost that history. You cant say there breaking lore cause they really aren't. You also fail to realize bethesda never planned for an mmo and you decide there breaking lore without thinking that there is no other possible way to make the mmo fit without the way they did. Wait till the new SP game and you might here about the events you might not.

Rial

No. (Stick to lore)

Rayadrel wrote: »

Be warned the imperial library site likes to insert a lot of non-canon embellishments and outright fan fiction in between the genuine stuff.

What you call "fan fiction" is stuff written by the very people who created TES lore while they worked at Bethesda Game Studios, as well as what they said in discussions on the official forums back in the days of Morrowind.

Rayadrel

Rial wrote: »

Rayadrel wrote: »

Be warned the imperial library site likes to insert a lot of non-canon embellishments and outright fan fiction in between the genuine stuff.

What you call "fan fiction" is stuff written by the very people who created TES lore while they worked at Bethesda Game Studios, as well as what they said in discussions on the official forums back in the days of Morrowind.

While not working for Bethesda.
Kirkbride's idiotic ramblings made in his own spare time are fanfiction, always have been fanfiction and always will be fanfiction and neither him, you or any of his drooling sycophantic fanboys can change that.

I was on those official forums by the way, I never took any of his BS then and I certainly won't now.

Rayadrel

anonymousshadow613b16_ESO wrote: »

I did read what you said but you fail to realize the basics. It's not breaking lore just cause nothing was reported about it. Yes most cases there would be a history on it but there could have been some event that lost that history. You cant say there breaking lore cause they really aren't. You also fail to realize bethesda never planned for an mmo and you decide there breaking lore without thinking that there is no other possible way to make the mmo fit without the way they did. Wait till the new SP game and you might here about the events you might not.

And again, I'm speaking of retcons and how to implement them without breaking the lore.
This has nothing to do with an MMO this has to do with in-lore history and verisimilitude.

Let me spell it out for you. You cannot have a major Daedric invasion occuring in the past of a series that has had a major Daedric invasion where nobody ever mentions the supposed prior one.

It also diminishes the plot of Oblivion. "Oh no! The protection Nirn had against the forces of Oblivion is gone for the first time since the overthrow of the Ayleids!
Oh except for this other time it happened and was even worse."

ShadowWolf613

No. (Stick to lore)

Well I can see how that breaks lore. Also cyrodil is suppose to be a jungle isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong. But if the evens in eso are caused by a dragon break then it's not lore breaking .

Brushing up on the lore. So I did some research and found some things are lore breaking but I'll have faith in ZOS and Bethesda to give some explanation.