There is no point in having 5 guild

Morthur

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nidriks

Morthur wrote: »

1.) Remove public AH
2.) Replace with (badly designed) guild stores
3.) Notice that the system is idiotic
4.) Attempt to "fix" the situation by allowing people to join 5 guilds
5.) Be amazed that guilds are no longer considered to be "communities" but in fact simple "stores"

I, for one, have the sole goal to be in 5 guilds with each 500 members, spread as widely among the players as possible. This allows me to trade with more players. I think many people do this the same way.

The solution would be to implement a public AH, abolish guild stores (and fire the UI designers involved in the guild store UI) and remove the ability to be in more then 1 guild at once (perhaps also remove the idiotic 500 player cap per guild). Oh and give me the ability to be in a different guild with each character.

Basically: do it the way WOW did it 10 years ago. It's about 5 million times better then this pseudo-innovative non-solution we have today.

They told you that's how it went did they? Maybe they just wanted ESO to be true to reality. If Tamriel existed it wouldn't have a basket with a search window attached or a ledger with the list of the prices that every single person in Tamriel is charging for pork feet. It might have individual guilds that have a list of members who know each other well enough to know what each person sells and who trade with each other.

I find the guild I'm in to be perfectly sociable. We chat, we group, we PvP. Sales are pretty much a side thing. I think I've looked in the guild store twice...mainly to see what was in there.

Read upwards for a very good post where someone listed a number of different scenarios of guilds a player might find themselves in. This one.

Can I finally note to you that there were MMOs before WoW. One of those MMOs was Everquest and it didn't have a global AH of any kind until Luclin arrived in 2001 and the Bazaar opened. The Bazaar was a big open room with lots of 'stalls' where you could park a character and set them up with the wares you wanted to sell. Before that people parked themselves in the West Commons tunnel and shouted to the zone what it was they wanted to buy or sell. It was great. You met people and you talked to them.

Shortly after there was also a fantastic MMO called SWG that made you run across a galaxy to find the shop of the person you wanted to buy from. You could advertise on terminals in the cities and on harvesters out in the wilds of Tatooine. I had favourite sellers I went to time after time. In todays MMos I couldn't you the name of the person I bought the last item I bought off of. Yet MMOs are a social game, aren't they?

Can I note that in SWG it made sense to have some sort of searchable computer terminal. In Tamriel it doesn't.

Then WoW came along and added convenience. Everyone got lazy and now they're having to re-adapt.

Isn't great that they're now being pseudo-innovative?

Alurria

nidriks wrote: »

Morthur wrote: »

1.) Remove public AH
2.) Replace with (badly designed) guild stores
3.) Notice that the system is idiotic
4.) Attempt to "fix" the situation by allowing people to join 5 guilds
5.) Be amazed that guilds are no longer considered to be "communities" but in fact simple "stores"

I, for one, have the sole goal to be in 5 guilds with each 500 members, spread as widely among the players as possible. This allows me to trade with more players. I think many people do this the same way.

The solution would be to implement a public AH, abolish guild stores (and fire the UI designers involved in the guild store UI) and remove the ability to be in more then 1 guild at once (perhaps also remove the idiotic 500 player cap per guild). Oh and give me the ability to be in a different guild with each character.

Basically: do it the way WOW did it 10 years ago. It's about 5 million times better then this pseudo-innovative non-solution we have today.

They told you that's how it went did they? Maybe they just wanted ESO to be true to reality. If Tamriel existed it wouldn't have a basket with a search window attached or a ledger with the list of the prices that every single person in Tamriel is charging for pork feet. It might have individual guilds that have a list of members who know each other well enough to know what each person sells and who trade with each other.

I find the guild I'm in to be perfectly sociable. We chat, we group, we PvP. Sales are pretty much a side thing. I think I've looked in the guild store twice...mainly to see what was in there.

Read upwards for a very good post where someone listed a number of different scenarios of guilds a player might find themselves in. This one.

Can I finally note to you that there were MMOs before WoW. One of those MMOs was Everquest and it didn't have a global AH of any kind until Luclin arrived in 2001 and the Bazaar opened. The Bazaar was a big open room with lots of 'stalls' where you could park a character and set them up with the wares you wanted to sell. Before that people parked themselves in the West Commons tunnel and shouted to the zone what it was they wanted to buy or sell. It was great. You met people and you talked to them.

Shortly after there was also a fantastic MMO called SWG that made you run across a galaxy to find the shop of the person you wanted to buy from. You could advertise on terminals in the cities and on harvesters out in the wilds of Tatooine. I had favourite sellers I went to time after time. In todays MMos I couldn't you the name of the person I bought the last item I bought off of. Yet MMOs are a social game, aren't they?

Can I note that in SWG it made sense to have some sort of searchable computer terminal. In Tamriel it doesn't.

Then WoW came along and added convenience. Everyone got lazy and now they're having to re-adapt.

Isn't great that they're now being pseudo-innovative?

Thank you thank you for pointing this out. EQ was a ground breaking MMO it set the tone for many to come. SWG was syfy! Of course it had computer terminals. Why can't people figure out a way to make this work to their advantage? Because people are lazy and have been spoon fed a notion and any changes make them nervous and feel out of their element.

5 guilds are just fine.

nidriks

NovaMarx wrote: »

I have yet to join a proper guild, for one simple reason: most ppl are only in guilds for the auction houses, which means even if the guild tries to start out as an RPG or PvE/PvP guild, it pretty much just ends up being a trading guild.
I would love to be proven wrong in this assumption, and if anyone knows of good RPG guilds let me know, but so far my experiences are not fantastic
So yeah, 5 guilds is pointless...

I think you're making a lot of assumptions, maybe based on all the tripe people keep posting.

I'm in a perfectly good guild. I'm pleased as hell that I joined it. We do things everyday and it has a rather nifty website.

Have you tried the guild forums? Have a look and you might find something you like. I've seen roleplay guilds advertising frequently. If you go in to a guild expecting it to be all about selling, however, then you might just carrying on believing that.

nidriks

wrlifeboil wrote: »

I know in early access, some guild leaders just wanted signups so their guild could get the guild bank. After that they got rid of the members by limiting access.

I know I've heard you have to have a certain number of guildees to get a guild bank. It may be true that below a certain number of guildees that bank disappears.

Even if it isn't true it wouldn't be a hard thing for Zeni to do to program it in. They could know if a guild leader is limiting access to too many members of his or her guild and remove the bank.

It's not a reason to dismiss 5 guilds.

AJ_7861

This was my first and really only complaint on day 1, I am still yet to find "that guild" as OP said there is no loyalty among them now, unless they are coming from another game previously established

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Morthur wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Im really still confused by some things. For example people keep saying they obviously let you join 5 guilds because there is no AH. Yet GW2(which is an mmo) let you join 3 and they had an auction house. The second thing that confuses me, is what exactly do people want to buy in the AH even if we had one? Motifs? Given im still low level at 35, but i have next to nothing i can think of that i need? Is there something later that is hard to come by? Third and this is true of any game, once a global AH hits, drop rates get balanced around it. And that is the last thing i want. I like actually finding stuff i can wear and use, not just killing stuff so i can sell loot, to buy loot i want. Or is this more an argument from the sellers who are upset they have no where to sell their phat loot?

Oh, and that's not even mentioning the absolutely ATROCIOUS guild store UI. I mean seriously... it couldn't be more *** if it tried!!

This i can certainly agree with. And may be why i think there is nothing worth buying, because even if there was id never find it.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Morthur wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

or dont do it the way world of warcrap does anything and yall that keep whining can hit the road? i can understand not liking the need to have guilds 500 people large, but it takes a very large amount of individuals to even open a store. i say just take the head count requirement for stores. then you can have your "loyalty" and well im getting a bit tired of people complaining about the stores with no solutions other than "we need an AH". i mean really, if they were going to do that they would have a long time ago. you are more than likely fighting a no win battle.

With all due respect but I think you've got it mixed up: I'm not a fanboi, desperate to love, play and enjoy this game. It's in fact the other way around: the devs are fighting for me (and all other players) to stay here and continue to pay their wages with those $15 a month. Or at least that's how "customer" and "supplier" normally works.

Also, hate WOW as much as you want but they do many things quite well - for example the very robust and excessively tried & tested trade system. There is a reason why WOW is the clear and undisputed market leader after all.

Basically, if this game fails as badly as I think it might then I'll simply cut my losses and go back to playing EVE, GW2, Planetside 2 or whatever else interests me at the time. I'm not married to this title or especially in love with TES or Beth so it's not like I'm very committed to this game beyond the pure enjoyment factor (especially compared with the fanbois that claim to love the game so much and waited for it for years etc. and that can't stand any criticism about their oh-so-beloved product).

Incidentally, that's why I have such big problems with this blind fandom... not only does it lower the standard of the MMO-market long-term, it also harms the products that the fans love so much by being so uncritical that only a small minority of regular players will actually continue to play the game long-term (and even if you think it would be great to get rid of all the critical people - it's actually not good for the game because it means that it's getting less money for further development and improvements that everyone would profit from). On the other hand if you come in here with a critical view of the game and tell the devs in no uncertain terms where they screwed up then there is a higher chance they will acknowledge and address these issues and then the game might flourish long-term (which, logically, should be the highest goal of the fanbois, no?).

no you have it all wrong, i know you arent a "fanboi". they dont care about about your 15 dollars or anyone else of your ilk why? your own words answer it " I'm not married to this title or especially in love with TES or Beth so it's not like I'm very committed to this game beyond the pure enjoyment factor". so you want to change a game you arent even "married" to? yeah that makes sense...

cut the "fanboi" crap, im a long time MMOer. i havent given a crap about ESO until LOTRO, killed itself with a change i dont agree with. that change manifested through complaints that "i demand changes but since im not married to the game, ill leave the ones dedicated to the game with MY legacy". thats what pisses me off.

the fact is the game is young, and there will be changes. the devs will change the game, the player base will adjust or leave. there are some interesting points to changes, and players discussing their experiences. right now, guilds are pretty useless aside from their store (which i already stated that this does need a change-remove the population restriction). when the average (not the uber-fast levelers or the super-slow levelrers) player isnt focusing on leveling, things will more than likely change as peoples need will change. i like the above poster, that commented about EQ having a player selected zone for selling (morel-thule had EC for their player AH). why dont you guys so concerned about a lack of an AH pick a zone to sell from? an AH was great for me, i always had a HUGE purse but its game money. i have had my money woe's but i dont blame the "player based selling system" but the mob drops may need a slight tweeking.

edit: also you could more accurately do a zone request on a price of an item. people that participate in the player AH tend to memorize/track prices. it became VERY common to enter east commonlands with an item and say "price check (PC) on <item> and get a good bottom-top dollar estimate.

KanedaSyndrome

Joexrod101 wrote: »

There are no point in having 5 guild in my opinion, based on what i have seen in the game since start of Early access which creates guild hoppers and as a guild leader it is annoying because im trying to expand and there no players truly loyal to my guild and trying to help make a community, the only reason as to why 5 guilds even exist is due to the fact there are no AH please just put a AH and make it only one guild its very hard to develop a actual loyal community when you able to be apart of 4 other guilds

Couldn't agree more.

methjester

No central hub. No hope of a central hub due to the mega pop setup... and even if there were a magic all inclusive guild store only 500 out of the million people playing get that benefit.

Am I wrong for wanting an all inclusive shop where I can just buy some glitter rock or sell a vet 3 jewelry rune without spamming a random zone and maybe finding a willing partner who doesn't want to abuse the COD?

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

methjester wrote: »

No central hub. No hope of a central hub due to the mega pop setup... and even if there were a magic all inclusive guild store only 500 out of the million people playing get that benefit.

Am I wrong for wanting an all inclusive shop where I can just buy some glitter rock or sell a vet 3 jewelry rune without spamming a random zone and maybe finding a willing partner who doesn't want to abuse the COD?

my opinion is no, you are not out of line. part of me really wonders if its less about immersion/virtual reality/this-is-our-world and more towards a method to try and fight gold farmers (lets not get into that topic here). i would agree that an old school EQ bazaar system in this world would make more sense. it literally was you posting your character and people would buy from you like you were a NPC merchant. it had a UI so you could see comparable or the item that you wished to sell. the draw back of having one mega-server is that you may not be able to utilize the UI from the huge amounts of like items being sold. this would probably apply even if you broke up the hub based on which faction you choose.

that being said, i do see a "loyalty" issue existing between the non-merchant guilds, with regard to resources amongst allies. its not about profiting off your "allies" as much as its giving them an opportunity to buy at a discounted rate. if all guilds had the store option, regardless of guild size, you could in turn be more able to buy more specific items focused on your particular needs. that way you can sell items to friends at vendor prices, or you can sell raid gear at a much lower cost to your raid guild, or tons of potions to your PVP guild. restricting the bank makes sense, in that there would be a guild for every toon/player that would just "exploit" the guild for the bank space. restricting the guild store is pretty silly, and doesnt help get this purest of capitalist (as opposed to the stock market style of an AH) market moving very well at all.

Sidney

I only use 3 but I like the idea of 5.

You could have 1 guild for real life friends/family, another for pvp, one for raiding (if that happens in this game?), one for trading, and one for in game friends or crafting swaps or whatever.

It seems nice. In WoW I constantly had my friends begging me to join all their guilds and none of them were ever in the same guild. Someone always ended up feeling like I didn't care about them much. This helps combat that.

If someone else doesn't like 5 guilds then don't join 5 guilds.

Greydog

Sidney wrote: »

If someone else doesn't like 5 guilds then don't join 5 guilds.

If only it were that easy

If you want any chance of selling or buying anything you are forced to increase your chances by joining multiple guilds. So where I would normally not be in a guild that me or my brother didn't create for ourselves and a few rl friends, I am in 4. The only one I really care about is the one in my sig.

Artemiisia

one of the best not known to all feature being in guild for me is that you can use your guildes as free travel points, if you aint close to a wayshine

Chili

To be quite honest I would like to have more guilds. I wouldn't mind at all being in 5 trade guilds or more, 3 PVP/PVE guilds (one for each faction) and a guild just for my friends.

The trade guilds I am in (3 currently) are pretty social and sometimes I can ask other guilds for items that someone is looking for in another. It builds a sense of community with all of them, which is nice. More wouldn't hurt.