Grouping is the worst I've seen an any MMO in my lifetime

DarkWombat

How did this game make it to launch when each and every time you form a group the players in your group are invisible?

I tried to run a dungeon the other day, of course, it didn't put us in the same phase at all, so we entered the dungeon. I could see the healer and no one else. The healer could only see me. I had the two other people log off and back on again. I did the same. Then I could not see anybody. We tried "teleport to player", and got a message saying it could not be done. With various combination things got worse. Some people appeared offline resulting in the leader booting them mistakenly.

After more work I saw two other party members but the 4th could not see any of us. Finally he logged off and back on and then saw us.

This is not good. Especially weeks after launch.

This past week I have been playing with my son. As soon as we join a group we have to teleport to player even if we are standing a foot away from each other. Sometimes this does not work and we are forced to log off and back on again.

This process is painful, and my tin foil hat might just make it out of the closet. I think a lot of these "megaserver systems" just plain don't work, and Zenimax is trying to figure it out on the fly. I think everyone at Zenimax knew it, and I think that the Imperial Edition, etc were ways that were invented in the last hour to get as much money upfront as they could for a game that has several systems like this that do not work.

mstout7419b14_ESO

Hasnt happen to me ever..... I have no problem with grouping

Ohioastro

For group dungeons, they won't work right if everyone isn't on the same stage (e.g. if someone has partially completed it.) This is an area, agreed, where there is work to do.

For questing - depends on how you want to do it. The issue isn't the megaserver - it's that the world changes according to the choices that you make, and this makes it very difficult to keep different people together. This makes the system fragile in some cases, but it actually adds a ton to the experience for me to see my actions having consequences.

DarkWombat

mstout7419b14_ESO wrote: »

Hasnt happen to me ever..... I have no problem with grouping

This is a complete lie. So someone on your friends list. Right next to you but in a different phase. You are saying as soon as you group they suddenly appear next to you? I call 100% BS.

Sarenia

Ohioastro wrote: »

For group dungeons, they won't work right if everyone isn't on the same stage (e.g. if someone has partially completed it.) This is an area, agreed, where there is work to do.

For questing - depends on how you want to do it. The issue isn't the megaserver - it's that the world changes according to the choices that you make, and this makes it very difficult to keep different people together. This makes the system fragile in some cases, but it actually adds a ton to the experience for me to see my actions having consequences.

This is true.

Usual group questing in MMOs typically has almost no communication. You just sort of mindlessly follow each other around toward each goal in the quest tracker.

On ESO, you need to communicate what you're doing. You need to discuss "are we going to free the spirits, or leave them tormented?". If you don't communicate, you end up separated.

nerevarine1138

I've only seen this happen once while grouping for a dungeon, and it wasn't actually a problem. I wasn't appearing to one of the other group members, but after we engaged in combat, I showed up for them. I was not affected at all by the issue.

Oh, and everyone who hasn't experienced the same bugs as you isn't lying. Most people don't experience bugs that don't occur with 100% frequency.

DarkWombat

Okay saying he lied might be harsh. I just find it hard to believe that there is someone out there who has done a significant amount of grouping and finds no issues whatsoever. But hey, that's me I guess!

Lalai

DarkWombat wrote: »

This is a complete lie. So someone on your friends list. Right next to you but in a different phase. You are saying as soon as you group they suddenly appear next to you? I call 100% BS.

That also doesn't happen for other games I've played with a similar setup regarding phasing/instancing. In Tera and GW2 you had to travel to the other player to be in the same phase/channel. Same is true here, and that option is definitely available. The only think I they should probably change about it, is make it so a window prompts you to travel to the leader upon joining the group instead of the player having to go to the party window and then right click. to do so. I'm sure they'll add something like that in time.

Personally, I've never had a problem seeing people in dungeons since launch. I did in beta when people didn't use the "travel to player" option, but haven't ran into it since launch. I did have a person that was "invisible" until they un-stealthed at one point at the very beginning of the dungeon.. but seeing as all they did was un-stealth and I saw them it was hardly progress hindering or anything like that.

Phasing and grouping in the open world definitely needs to be worked on though. Right now it requires a little more coordination than it should as far as making sure you and partner are on the same parts of quests and so on.. so it's not very friendly to random grouping for actual questing.

jircris11

DarkWombat wrote: »

mstout7419b14_ESO wrote: »

Hasnt happen to me ever..... I have no problem with grouping

This is a complete lie. So someone on your friends list. Right next to you but in a different phase. You are saying as soon as you group they suddenly appear next to you? I call 100% BS.

You claim that the poster is lying..yet my question is do you know them? where you in their group? if no to both of them then how can you state its a lie. i have not had ANY trouble with groups we always end up playing togeather unless one of us has doen the quest. if so then we rejoin them after its done.

Gohlar

As you can see Wombat, some people here will pretend glaring issues don't exist and that everything is fine. It's most ridiculous forum for any mmo ever. They make any kind of discussion impossible by pretending the game is flawless. It's totally disingenuous, obviously they are aware of the issues, they wouldn't be playing the game otherwise.

It's probably one of the reasons why the game turned out the way it did, the entire feedback process really got undermined by over zealous defenders.

But yeah, from a basic design standpoint, the game is a bit of a disaster. ESO does have the worst group pve play for any major mmo I'm aware of.

Covarnis

If things like this happen (which is not often, but it does) - what helps is "travel to player" option in your group panel. If everyone travels to group leader, usually this kind of things are solved. Of course, it would be nice to avoid that (or have an automatic suggestion to travel to another layer/phase), I hope it will come in the future. Please, make a suggestion about this via feedback on this website or during in game tools.

DarkWombat

That also doesn't happen for other games I've played with a similar setup regarding phasing/instancing. In Tera and GW2 you had to travel to the other player to be in the same phase/channel. Same is true here, and that option is definitely available.

You are 100% wrong. In GW2 me and my friend are on the same server and we always see each other. There is that off chance that one of us made to to the overflow server and one did not, but that chance is very remote.

Honn

When this happened in the beta (which I stated on the questionnaire) there was always one thing the same....the group would always be lacking a leader. Meaning that the leadership icon was not by anyones name.

Im curious if the this was the same for the OP?

DarkWombat

You claim that the poster is lying..yet my question is do you know them? where you in their group? if no to both of them then how can you state its a lie. i have not had ANY trouble with groups we always end up playing togeather unless one of us has doen the quest. if so then we rejoin them after its done.

I already followed up and said calling him a liar was wrong. I just found it hard to believe that grouping is perfect.

Lalai

DarkWombat wrote: »

You are 100% wrong. In GW2 me and my friend are on the same server and we always see each other. There is that off chance that one of us made to to the overflow server and one did not, but that chance is very remote.

It may be that way now that the game has been out for around two years and population has died down, but it most certainly was not that way at launch, nor for the first couple months after. In fact, the first time I played GW2 there wasn't even an option to go to the person you grouped with. At launch it got a bit better, but ending up on the same server prior to grouping was pretty non-existent.

As it stands now, if you're on one of their overflow servers (which is the same thing as being in a separate phase for this game), the person will not appear next to you as soon as you group up if they're on the main server. You can move to the same server as that person, but it's not something that automatically happens without any input from your end. Yes, of course if you're both on the same server you're going to see each other. Just like if you're on the same phase in this game you will.

As I said, it's not perfect, but it's kinda standard for the system that's in place. It does need work, but it's not the first MMO to do this.

Lanatireb17_ESO

This particular issue, the grouping, is the reason most in my guild quit.

Audigy

Wow is using phasing as well and there you also cant quest together unless you are at the same part of the quest.

I don't understand why this is now a big issue at TESO, while at wow nobody complained.

TicToc

For me it hasn't been any worse than any other bug in the game. It has only happened to me a few times, and was easily fixed by by having everyone teleport to the group leader. It takes less than a minute and everyone is back together.

Granted, it would be nice not to have to bother with things like that, but I'm sure they are working on a fix. All MMO's have bugs right after release. And every MMO has someone claiming that its bugs are the worst ever. In every case, you just have to wait until they figure out a fix that isn't going to break something else. Better that they take their time and implement a proper fix than rushing out a fix that causes more problems than it solves.

Mortelus

DarkWombat wrote: »

How did this game make it to launch when each and every time you form a group the players in your group are invisible?

Does it really happen every time?

Seriously, it has been badly implemented and I think something needs to change.

If you're in a group phasing should work with the lowest / earliest /whatever point in the quest line.

But I can understand why its been implemented, it's so the landscape can change.

Just try to group up with people that are on the same quest and point in quest as you.

Hodorius

I played to VR5 and I have been grouped with my neighbor all the time.
We have been in different phases like two times.
During that time we had no idea that if you enter a dungeon/area and the other one is sneaking it looks like he is in another phase...

How to accomplish that:

- We have each other in our friend lists.
- We have TS and we use it.
Everytime a NPC gives us a choice we talk about it BEFORE we choose.
- Before entering a dungeon we tell the people to abandon the dungeon quest and reaccept it 1 minute later.
- We do not quest alone... ever. If we are alone we go for PvP.

Of course there should be improvements for people who are in different stages of a quest and it should be easier to enter the same phase of dungeons.

But if you know how the machanics work you will encounter nearly no problems.

WraithAzraiel

This affected me in beta.

I don't think the coding allows our characters to participate in a groupmate's content if we've already completed said content ourselves.

THAT - I believe needs to be changed - sure it'll mess with "immersion" but it's an MMO we should be able to assist friends should they need it with missions we ourselves have already completed - not leave them to fend for themselves.

Strontium-Dog

Grouping is overly complicated and convoluted. To group with anyone you have to teleport. Then you have to be on EXACT same stage as them or your invis. WHY? You can no longer help anyone as every other mmo in the world once youve done a stage more than your friend.
Dungeons /caves are often labelled as solo but arent . you cant quest in caves together half the time and lets not go into the bots! lol

Really, i see where they want to go with this and what they are trying but its NOT user friendly at all. Yes yes lots will tell you other wise but it is not by any stretch of the imagination MMO norm.

Instancing extreme lol

alienbongs

I understand people like this game and want it to succeed (me too), but why are people so delusional on these forums? ESO does in fact have some major problems, and they do need to get fixed. It does have a broken grouping system currently. I refuse to believe we all haven't experienced it even once.

My first trip into a group dungeon was a confusing and frustrating rotation of players re-logging and re-entering the dungeon until we could finally all see each other, instead of floating arrows. Mind you, none of us had even started the quest at that point.

KerinKor

DarkWombat wrote: »

mstout7419b14_ESO wrote: »

Hasnt happen to me ever..... I have no problem with grouping

This is a complete lie. So someone on your friends list. Right next to you but in a different phase. You are saying as soon as you group they suddenly appear next to you? I call 100% BS.

Well, it may not be a lie .. he could be a friendless soloer.

KerinKor

Hodorius wrote: »

- We have TS and we use it..

Expecting everyone to use a third-party VOIP tool simply to group-up to run a random dungeon is pretty unrealistic, don't you think?

Kroin

I also never had any problems with grouping, always in the same phase as soon as we were in dungeon, normaly i just port from where i stand or next wayshrine, one time we had to reset ran out of the dungeon all 4 of us in the same phase, so cant agree with all, i think you are just overreacting.

Also if they are porting into the dungeon they are marked as offline that was always so, but they are just porting.

knaveofengland

well you can say all mmos are the same its called greed, game does promote team work but most will play solo that's the problem greed . lost count on how many times I have asked in 3 guilds anyone wants to make team falls on death ears unless its a dungeon even then most don't want to know .sso that's not esos fault its human nature

torgrim123

I haven't seen this in dungeons but in the open world It's quite common due to phasing.

erdbeerlexi

To counter those phasing and not seeing each other we (My Friend and me) always teleport to each other (or better just one does) after logging in/grouping.
Since then we had rarely a problem. The problem occurs only if the quest don't advance properly (happened once or twice) and the other had to wait.

That with the stealthing and not seeing the other we had, too. I got kicked and logged on again and couldn't see my friend until he stopped stealthing.

I would advice everyone to teleport before re-loging over and over again. Could be faster... But I'm not sure if its possible in dungeon (how about to step out of them?)

I can understand thos phasing and stuff. It's just annoying if you see a friend dopping life and can't do anything because of it...

And my friend stated, too. That's it's bad that the game does not give the chace to comunicate with voice instead of typing... It's in a battle not adviceable to open the chat.

mips_winnt

alienbongs wrote: »

I understand people like this game and want it to succeed (me too), but why are people so delusional on these forums? ESO does in fact have some major problems, and they do need to get fixed.

Well said, the OP states his/her issues with grouping and inevitably gets a bunch of responses to the effect that it's all in his/her head, pretty ridiculous as well as counterproductive. The grouping system/tools does need a lot of work since it's neither convenient nor effective. This is where ZOS needs to steal some plays from WoW since the grouping tools & system there are mature and pretty well designed, putting together groups in WoW (whether it be LFG/LFR on the fly groups, 5/10/25 man runs or just grouping up to quest or PvP) is a snap and you have all the basic tools at your fingertips, ESO should have the same if it really wants to promote group play (as any MMO should want to do).

I understand what ZOS was attempting to do, however it's not working out very well since having to jump through a whole bunch of hoops just to get a functional group and then not having half way decent group tools (e.g. target markers, configurable group member status icons, etc..,) isn't fun it's annoying.

Knovah

DarkWombat wrote: »

mstout7419b14_ESO wrote: »

Hasnt happen to me ever..... I have no problem with grouping

This is a complete lie. So someone on your friends list. Right next to you but in a different phase. You are saying as soon as you group they suddenly appear next to you? I call 100% BS.

I have never had it happen in any dungeon runs myself. I have done a fair amount on my main and not had an issue.

Now with questing I have this issue often. I will be in one phase friend will be in another or we made different choices.

calling someone a straight out liar is rude and disrespectful imho not everyone will encounter the same bugs in the same way