Templars Are so underpowered

KoooZ

Drekor wrote: »

We are the only class that doesn't have a way to manage magicka built into our class but then on the other hand nobody comes anywhere close to touching our healing power while we still maintain the durability and damage of other classes.

What are the DKs built in magicka management skills?

timur.dosrwb17_ESO

KoooZ wrote: »

Drekor wrote: »

We are the only class that doesn't have a way to manage magicka built into our class but then on the other hand nobody comes anywhere close to touching our healing power while we still maintain the durability and damage of other classes.

What are the DKs built in magicka management skills?

That's the whole point, we don't have any lol.
I rely on last Destro passive for aoe pulls and on dungeon bosses it's Elemental drain and then Restostaff/HoTs ticks.

Drekor

KoooZ wrote: »

Drekor wrote: »

We are the only class that doesn't have a way to manage magicka built into our class but then on the other hand nobody comes anywhere close to touching our healing power while we still maintain the durability and damage of other classes.

What are the DKs built in magicka management skills?

Battle Roar and Sea of Flames

Nox_Aeterna

I dont dont feel UP against the content , like i already said in this thread.

But now on vet lvls , i feel UP when compared to most of the DKs I see running around and owning mobs.

I can also beat said mobs , but if i can fight one pack at a time and have some trouble , i see some DKs beating 2/3 packs at once and running foward.

Even the sorcs i dont see doing something like that.

WolfSkin

Can any1 post a templat 2h/bow build that work in VR? plz I'd like to see it. I can't come up with anything good.

Drekor

WolfSkin wrote: »

Can any1 post a templat 2h/bow build that work in VR? plz I'd like to see it. I can't come up with anything good.

That's because 2H and bow are both awful in VR

Fox56b16_ESO

I can't see the problem as a templar.

I leveled to 50/VR1 as a bowplar/healer. Not a single sweat was given soloing things, and stunnable worldbosses wouldn't even touch me. Healing as a templar is a cakewalk, the only spell I use from the restostaff line is regeneration/mutagen... the templar heals are WAY stronger and mana-efficient than the reststaff ones (except regeneration), and the healing ultimate gives the group a 6 second godmode for zero magicka... currently VR4 and the dungeons keep being easy (except when my fellows get oneshotted and can't move out of any red circle...).

Since VR1, I respec every week (gold powered by selling vampire bites), and so far I found every playstile just great.

Sword'n'Board with puncturing strikes spamming with the volcanic rune every now and then makes even soloing public dungeon groups easy, especially with the +damage proc from aedric spear on hit. 5heavy/2light armor with softcapped magicka stuff, armor and magic resist.

Bow: stuff just doesn't touch you. I dropped it just because it gets boring to never get in danger. You can knockback/knockdown/slow/immobilize your enemies using magicka *and* stamina until, and basically stuff never reaches you.

Destruction Staff: AoE things down with easy... the only relevant skill is pulse (from staff line) and volcanic rune (mages guild), and then add in what you want... hitting 3 targets with fire + slow + DoT is just perfect for these builds.

Restoration Staff: As I said, templar heals are by far superior to the resto staff heals when it comes to raw output and magicka efficiency, and they are instant and *can crit*.

Twohanded & dualwield: I played them last during the beta's, and just swapped from swordnboard to twohanded, since I just have too much survivability (never dropping below 80% life basically) as a templar tank, and twohanded should increase my damage output even further against groups.

The only thing that bothers me: the first skill in every templar skill line is by far the strongest (in addition with fully unlocked passives of course).

* Puncturing Sweep is a must-have for melee-based combat. It just destroys groups when spammed with the burning light passive and good crit.

* Sun Fire/reflective light: Hits 3 targets (most leveling enemies are in groups of 2-3), does fire damage (destru staff!), slows them (perfect!) and does very high damage compared to it's magicka costs. Perfect for ranged builds.

* Rushed Ceremony/Honor the dead: instant heal a low health ally. when the target is low health, it is nearly free and crits fairly often for a huge amaount of health. Just perfect for any healer basically, since all the other non-templar healing possibilities are based over time or shield or the like, but no instant burstheal when *** hits the fan.

=> Since these awesome spells are available from level 1, the "felt progression" lacks somewhat, except the fairly good templar passive skills which improve those skills even further.

KoooZ

Drekor wrote: »

KoooZ wrote: »

Drekor wrote: »

We are the only class that doesn't have a way to manage magicka built into our class but then on the other hand nobody comes anywhere close to touching our healing power while we still maintain the durability and damage of other classes.

What are the DKs built in magicka management skills?

Battle Roar and Sea of Flames

I haven't had the chance to try sea of flames, is the return that good compared to the magicka cost per second?

Filodendron

Rushed Ceremony/Honor the dead: instant heal a low health ally. when the target is low health, it is nearly free and crits fairly often for a huge amaount of health

The healing is okish at lower level but scales badly, you'll get to a point where mobs deal more damage per hit than you can heal.

TBH i feel templar skills are a bit ..mediocre, there was never a point in my leveling where i said "oh i can't wait to get level X or can't wait to get a skill point to get that ability" ..that never happened, nothing attractive or awesome about them.

I try to play a templar caster, i know melee is stronger but i like casters more. I opted for Vampire's Bane morph cause i think "cleaving" is a poor design, obviously devs didn't bother so my character struggled a lot, dealing with multiple foes was challenging and to me it seems the most squishy class, relied heavily on javelin to keep the targets stunned and never touch me cause otherwise i wouldn't be able to survive.

I don't want more power but want abilities to be more attractive, seriously there are some abilities that aren't worth keeping on your action bar even in a WoW style game.

Lovely

Fox56b16_ESO wrote: »

I dropped it just because it gets boring to never get in danger

Right...

audabon2013

so much bad information and bad players; makes me sick.

im V3 Templar and its still just as faceroll as 1-50 was. all the complainers must be either playing a different game or just cant figure out how to play.

I don't even have to weapon swap to my primary healing bar while soloing. the build i have found that works incredibly well is below; all you need to roll content solo is:

breath of life, toppling charge, biting jabs, dark flare, reflective light, solar prison.

I wear 5 light, 2 heavy as a Breton. resto staff both bars.

open with flare, then reflective. resto heavy 1 or 2 ticks depending on what mob or pack does. save solar for 3+packs and bosses. drop it on the pack, charge in, biting to add cc, be ready to heal.

if they are melee and rush you... either charge the closest or charge a caster that stays back (FINISH THE CASTER). refresh reflective. at this point heavy resto for regen or biting to finish.

solo elites quite similarly. flare, reflective, then use a charge/heavy attack rotation to keep the elite locked down. charge in, start to backpedal with heavy, charge, backpedal. when you get more skilled add in roll dodging, flare and reflective, then back to charge/heavy.


very effective for solo. capable cc from charge and biting. solid dmg output. and good mana management. all the while with a blistering healset on bar 1 waiting for dungeons.

Rosiveil

OK so I have had similar experiences with my Templar when I first birthed into Veteran level zones and was forced to sit back and do some math..so to speak. Like you, I was also finding that I was avoiding 3+ mobs and dying enough times to make me second guess the class. Not because it isn't good but I was thinking that it just wasn't working for me. Here's what I found to be working pretty well for me at the moment. Firstly, I am an aggressive melee veteran. I love to plow in and roll faces. But I was facing even more problems being a Vamp Templar getting harshly smited by mobs that had casters. I roll 3 heavy (Shoulder, Chest, Legs) armor and rest cloth. I have specced into Dawn's Wrath for a couple reasons. One: Vampire's Bane morph from Dawn's Light is nice, almost regardless of the situation. But I do interchange it with Eclipse if the mob has a caster and just keep the caster bubbled. He kills himself ultimately. I roll One-hand and Shield for Armor cap and more importantly for Shield Charge morphed into the Shielded Assault. AND ...very important here... I specced into Annulment in light armor for the 17 second damage shield and spell mitigation. Also specced into Heavy and Light armor enough to cap spell resist and spell cost reduction. So heres my rotation into a mob: Vampire's Bane, Shielded Assault, Solar Flare morphed into the instant aoe (that I cant remember the name of) For the damage increase to the following attack, be it weapon or spellpower. And just go back and forth between Puncturing Strikes and Solar Flare. Just continue to bounce around the mob with shield charge to reestablish the damage shield. Focus down healers...and remember to block power attacks. Keep the healer/caster closest to you for the stagger from puncturing strikes along with Eclipse bubble and he resigns rather quickly. I also find that I rotate around the outside of the mob to control proximity from some of the big strikers. OK BUT...one precursor to this attack plan...I have a resto staff in my weapon swap and always cast Annulment (from light armor) and then buff a HoT from the resto that is morphed into an instant heal in dire times. So for 17 seconds Im shielded from Annulment, 6 seconds from shield charge along with a precast heal over time on me before the charge. This arrangement is allowing me to confidently engage mobs 3-5 depending on the comp of that mob obviously.
So I have 16 points into Health and 33 into Magicka 0 into Stamina atm since I rely so heavily on class abilities. It is always about awareness though man. Judging by your post you are fully aware of this concept. Templars are Kings, bro. Dont give up on him=) Im sorry for the word wall here but I really felt your frustration and I hope this atleast helps a little. If anyone else sees something in my rotation that could use improving, by all means fill me in. FTR I will be changing my stats around since magicka can be capped with chants. Hindsight;)

audabon2013

@rosi ....I like how u changed it up to figure out what worked for your playstyle, but 1 thing..

you said you capped spell COST reduction. there is no cap. mystborn proved it in his unraveled series. since then many of us have duplicated those results. the problem is the order in which % decrease and numerical decreases stack led people to believe there was diminishing returns and lack of gear made people shoot out 25% as a cap in beta.

this is now known to be false which is why cost reduction is worth more than regen because regen will eventually softcap but cost reduction can be pushed as far as we can find talents and gear to push it.

keep up the Templar fight!!

Rosiveil

@audabon2013 - No, I meant regeneration cap only. My run-on sentence implied I meant both. lol You're right. There's no reduction cap

audabon2013

ahh. my bad. sorry for misunderstanding you.

Cheatingdeath23

Interesting. I'm a level 25 Templar and haven't had problems so far, but I also have no points in the Aedric Spear line. Might need to modify that, I guess.

Drekor

KoooZ wrote: »

Drekor wrote: »

KoooZ wrote: »

Drekor wrote: »

We are the only class that doesn't have a way to manage magicka built into our class but then on the other hand nobody comes anywhere close to touching our healing power while we still maintain the durability and damage of other classes.

What are the DKs built in magicka management skills?

Battle Roar and Sea of Flames

I haven't had the chance to try sea of flames, is the return that good compared to the magicka cost per second?

Provided you aren't trying to constantly run it and just turn it on right near the end yea it's good. You can also combine it with elemental drain for more good times.

chrisub17_ESO104

V1 templar. I have a V6 DK also so I know what the higher level content is like. I use blazing shield, then solar barrage + empowering sweep then follow up with biting jabs and solar barrage + empowering sweep again. Maybe another biting jabs after that or just shield bash whatever is leftover.

That's for groups of 4+. 2-3 I usually leave out blazing shield it's not necessary and the shield lasts too long.

I also slot inner light, and use the thief stone.

7 light armor. Sword/shield. Trinkets are all magicka cost reduction. I really do not see any advantage to 5 heavy armor. I think the light armor passives are much better.

reggielee

thanks for the tips all, im looking into future builds for my templar for when she reaches vet

randomriffyrocksprerb18_ESO

Yeah its a juggle, once i run out of mana i use stamina abilities, especially silver shards. And once i've run out of stamina I use my weapon that has absorb magicka

I get what the author is trying to say, they're only a few skills that are good. The rest well no-one can be bothered enough to spend a skillpoint in them

malais

Cheatingdeath23 wrote: »

Interesting. I'm a level 25 Templar and haven't had problems so far, but I also have no points in the Aedric Spear line. Might need to modify that, I guess.

Low levels isn't the problem. Pre vet any weapon class combo is viable. Post vet there are only a handful of Templar builds that work and they ALL include 5 LA and a resto staff as either primary or secondary weapon.

What I've seen DKs with a destro staff wade in drop full packs and run on. A Templar has to at some point pop a heal. As the Templar is a powerhouse healer (best burst heals in the game) you are pretty much forced to heal, while other classes aren't.

I don't have much trouble with magika but again I am forced to weave a heal in with the resto staff to survive. Which lowers my dps well below other classes.

Aaren

chrisub17_ESO104 wrote: »

V1 templar. I have a V6 DK also so I know what the higher level content is like. I use blazing shield, then solar barrage + empowering sweep then follow up with biting jabs and solar barrage + empowering sweep again. Maybe another biting jabs after that or just shield bash whatever is leftover.

That's for groups of 4+. 2-3 I usually leave out blazing shield it's not necessary and the shield lasts too long.

I also slot inner light, and use the thief stone.

7 light armor. Sword/shield. Trinkets are all magicka cost reduction. I really do not see any advantage to 5 heavy armor. I think the light armor passives are much better.

I've started to like blazing shield on big pulls also. I have gone light over heavy for soloing as well. I have to be more careful with blocking, but I found it more effective.

@chrisub17_ESO104‌ How do you get empowering sweep multiple times in a pull? Outside of group public dungeons (packs of 7ish) I only gain enough ultimate to have it available every other pull. In fact, I've moved away from it and just save ultimate for solar prison to be used in emergencies.

chrisub17_ESO104

Ya forgot to say I have the 20% ultimate cost reduction set. But the other part of it is that I take more time to block attacks and have mutagen running which adds a bit of ultimate. Biting jabs also seems to build ultimate pretty fast.

You can pick that set up for pretty cheap at V1, it's not really that rare of a drop.

It's all still doable without the ultimate reduction set it just drains a bit more magicka on big pulls.

Yasha

kylemelhuishb16_ESO wrote: »

Nightblade B+?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl2m_6dC-ew


It seems to me that all the classes are A+ and E- depending on who's building...

I have had no problems with my Templar although to be fair I have built as a PVP ranged/healer, but still...

That build doesn't work anymore because it relies on the ultimate to be up constantly and ult regen was nerfed; even if it still worked it would be useless in pvp.

sommazzatoreb14_ESO

So I've revived my Templar using Destro staff skills, which I feel is pretty friggin lame since I don't use any Templar abilities lol. My actual alternate is no longer the DK, its the NB. If anyone says that class sucks they are just being difficult and contentious. That class rocks. The skills mesh well together, they are powerful, the last a decent amount of time, he has good self heal and sustainability, my entire bar is class skills minus one. Its all inverted for the Templar. Can't wait till they get around to buffing him.

Chirru

sommazzatoreb14_ESO wrote: »

My self and a few friends have made Templar. We enjoyed these character up until level 50. Since then we are having a hard time soloing any trash mobs, I personally have to dodge 3 man trash mobs or I'll get killed.

A.) the heals are useless compared to the Resto staff tree. B.) Skills like Puncturing strikes sucks considering you unlock it at level 1 and everyone uses it all the way through V10 spamming the crap out of it. Basically, the Templar doesn't progress at all. Blinding Light? What a joke, Dual Wield line has a better skill that is similar as a fourth tier. All this to say, this is a terrible class that needs to be remolded. My Veteran Rank 4 Templar is going to sit on the shelf until this is fixed. I feel like ZOS went for too much freedom combined with too much structure in the wrong way and wound up with the cons of both worlds. I love this game and will just have to reroll another char I guess, but this is really disappointing. If any of you have suggestions plz pm me, I'd love to hear them

Oh dear... you never played a dual weapon Night Blade. If you had you would think the Templar overpowered.

Ravinsild

Chirru wrote: »

sommazzatoreb14_ESO wrote: »

My self and a few friends have made Templar. We enjoyed these character up until level 50. Since then we are having a hard time soloing any trash mobs, I personally have to dodge 3 man trash mobs or I'll get killed.

A.) the heals are useless compared to the Resto staff tree. B.) Skills like Puncturing strikes sucks considering you unlock it at level 1 and everyone uses it all the way through V10 spamming the crap out of it. Basically, the Templar doesn't progress at all. Blinding Light? What a joke, Dual Wield line has a better skill that is similar as a fourth tier. All this to say, this is a terrible class that needs to be remolded. My Veteran Rank 4 Templar is going to sit on the shelf until this is fixed. I feel like ZOS went for too much freedom combined with too much structure in the wrong way and wound up with the cons of both worlds. I love this game and will just have to reroll another char I guess, but this is really disappointing. If any of you have suggestions plz pm me, I'd love to hear them

Oh dear... you never played a dual weapon Night Blade. If you had you would think the Templar overpowered.

I actually find that my Nightblade is more effective and has better survivability than my Templar (5 med/2 light with dual wield only, both weapons skill bars).

Reason being: You can essentially half-health or more of a monster, thus nearly immediately eliminating it (Veteran Rank 2) where as the Templar has sluggish, *** poor DPS that takes forever to take out things making the available threats more threatening.

sommazzatoreb14_ESO

Oh dear... you never played a dual weapon Night Blade. If you had you would think the Templar overpowered.
[/quote]
Dual wield NB is all I play anymore lol. Its amazing. Doing orange quests no problemo.

sommazzatoreb14_ESO

Yea, you have so many self sustaining abilities that I finish almost every fight at 100%health and 85%+ on Stam and Magicka. Even against 3 man mobs 3-4 levels higher.

Timothy.Neeseb14_ESO

The passive Focus Healing along with Channeled Focus is a very powerful tool to use. Outside of the circle I heal for about 500 but in the circle its 700 with crits as high as 1000. You dont need to stand in the circle the whole time so you can still dodge but when its time to heal yourself get back in it.