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• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
· Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
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Auction House
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DragonMother✭✭✭No!The guild store system is far better than any public auction market system could ever be. The problem is people don't know how to make it work in their favor and try to abuse their guildmembers to buy things that literally can be made, or gathered anywhere.Demi, Adult female, Guild leader, Roleplayer & TES enthusiastStatus: Inactive until further notice.
I trust my instincts, more than I trust other peoples opinions.
Four years, and still present. Sanguine still lives.2 -
Shiaxi✭✭✭Yes!DragonMother wrote: »The guild store system is far better than any public auction market system could ever be. The problem is people don't know how to make it work in their favor and try to abuse their guildmembers to buy things that literally can be made, or gathered anywhere.
well that's a load of BS... in what way is the guild store better than any public auction market system? ppl in the guilds I'm in (and they are all trading guilds mind you) have stopped using the guildstores altogether.0 -
tel_losSoul ShrivenYes!its a flawed system as it is at lest consider faction AH having to join guild to use a half a**ed market system is rubish0 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭No!Voted for no, because the AH will mostly be used by bots selling their crap.Edited by Adernath on April 29, 2014 7:11AM3 -
Shiaxi✭✭✭Yes!Voted for no, because the AH will mostly be used by bots selling their crap.
to be perfectly honest I would prefer that to the way it works now. At least I would be able to buy stuff then.
however I really don't believe in the doom scenarios everyone keeps putting in front of us; sure some ppl will use bots for their nefarious deeds, but that will be regulated after a start up time.
I've played a few mmo's (granted probably not as many as some on here); guild wars 1 and 2, swtor, eve, a couple of f2p ones...
and in none of these I really had a problem with the market / AH despite some ppl on here telling me that the markets in these mmo's are cesspools of corruption and bots. in ESO however the great system that prevents bots from destroying the economy or whatever has prevented an economy from forming completely.0 -
Elirienne✭✭✭✭Yes!I said yes, to stop people from crying about it. *I* do not need it, if it were for me, I would just disable trade and make the game into a social multiplayer SPRPG.
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spokenworddb14_ESOSoul ShrivenYes!When ZOS first mentioned no AH but instead Guild Stores I thought "hmmm, okay let's wait and see what it's like". After just a few weeks of playing I can say I hate the current system and here's why:
1. Guild Store UI is not robust at all - You feel like you are hunting through list after list manually to find items that MIGHT be there. Creates more anxiety than it's worth for a fragmented system.
3. Guild Stores are fragmented AHs - You end up with a bunch of micro-world markets capped at 500 people which basically stifles open & easy trade. The hunt for items runs you across multiple "Trade Guilds" which makes it feel like a chore. It is much more efficient to just use Zone Chat to sell items but that leads to my next point.
3. Zone Chat is a cesspool - This fact is not unique to ESO. Almost every MMO has garbage zone chat. The things people feel comfortable saying to strangers in game chat is just nauseating. Because zone chat is the easiest way to peddle or seek goods it forces most people to flock there. However you are now forced to read the latest trolling from "ButtMonster3765" and his friends which will probably scroll your message up within mere seconds leaving you to say screw it or spam your requests to catch any interested eyes.
Oh how I long for an AH to run to, conduct my business and get back to adventuring. People that prefer to wade through the swamp of zone chat still can use it to buy/sell and Guild Stores can now be used to showcase crafted items made by guild members at "guild prices" for other members etc. But now when I go to the AH vendor I'm looking at a full list of available items with much less hassle.1 -
LadyInTheWater✭✭✭No!That comment is ridiculous...THINK before you post.
@Dyvim It makes sense that you'd be condescending yet again, as you have been through this entire thread.
1) Your reasoning for a global AH has most likely been considered by the devs prior to the start of their design process, was found inappropriate for this game, and the idea was discarded. So, it's possible that you're a little angry.
2) I have the unfortunate luck of being a woman, in an online game, who does think independently, and you probably feel like you have to take me down a peg.
Edited by LadyInTheWater on April 29, 2014 7:59AMThe moment you call someone stupid, or try to display your opinion as "fact", you lose all credibility.3 -
LadyInTheWater✭✭✭No!gimarwb17_ESO wrote: »Every second comment in this thread seems to be Lady in the Water, strange, do I detect some kind of ulterior motives here?
I can think of two possible reasons for your observation:
1) I'm the only one you're paying attention to
2) I'm an easy target for trolls
I'm sure there are other possibilities, though.The moment you call someone stupid, or try to display your opinion as "fact", you lose all credibility.3 -
Zaxq✭✭✭No!The answer isnt a global AH (which would be awful).
The answer is putting better / working functionality into the guild stores.
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Eyil✭✭No!I generally agree with the idea of an auction house, but the issue here is that ESO is not WoW. The megaserver makes the idea of an auction house impossible.
If we had an auction house we'd basically have global trading, so gear would be completely trivial to obtain since the prices would be driven down so low. The only solution to that would be to make items practically impossible to obtain or to make pretty much everything Bind on Pickup. It's just not viable and has to be restricted.1 -
Shiaxi✭✭✭Yes!I generally agree with the idea of an auction house, but the issue here is that ESO is not WoW. The megaserver makes the idea of an auction house impossible.
If we had an auction house we'd basically have global trading, so gear would be completely trivial to obtain since the prices would be driven down so low. The only solution to that would be to make items practically impossible to obtain or to make pretty much everything Bind on Pickup. It's just not viable and has to be restricted.
a global auction house works pretty well for guild wars
most bread and butter items sell for cheap (as they should because everyone can get em easily from random drops) but the rarer items and crafting materials stay valuable.
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soalrism✭✭No!a global auction house works pretty well for guild wars
most bread and butter items sell for cheap (as they should because everyone can get em easily from random drops) but the rarer items and crafting materials stay valuable.
no it doesnt work there. rarer items are totaly overpriced for normal players. and a lot of common items are totaly underpriced!1 -
Shiaxi✭✭✭Yes!a global auction house works pretty well for guild wars
most bread and butter items sell for cheap (as they should because everyone can get em easily from random drops) but the rarer items and crafting materials stay valuable.
no it doesnt work there. rarer items are totaly overpriced for normal players. and a lot of common items are totaly underpriced!
let's agree to disagree then because I always thought the market in gw2 worked like a charm
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Eyil✭✭No!I generally agree with the idea of an auction house, but the issue here is that ESO is not WoW. The megaserver makes the idea of an auction house impossible.
If we had an auction house we'd basically have global trading, so gear would be completely trivial to obtain since the prices would be driven down so low. The only solution to that would be to make items practically impossible to obtain or to make pretty much everything Bind on Pickup. It's just not viable and has to be restricted.
a global auction house works pretty well for guild wars
most bread and butter items sell for cheap (as they should because everyone can get em easily from random drops) but the rarer items and crafting materials stay valuable.
I'm not familiar with how Guild Wars works. Guild Wars 2 has server shards like WoW, is Guild Wars all on the same server? I wonder how they do it if it is like that.0 -
Shiaxi✭✭✭Yes!I generally agree with the idea of an auction house, but the issue here is that ESO is not WoW. The megaserver makes the idea of an auction house impossible.
If we had an auction house we'd basically have global trading, so gear would be completely trivial to obtain since the prices would be driven down so low. The only solution to that would be to make items practically impossible to obtain or to make pretty much everything Bind on Pickup. It's just not viable and has to be restricted.
a global auction house works pretty well for guild wars
most bread and butter items sell for cheap (as they should because everyone can get em easily from random drops) but the rarer items and crafting materials stay valuable.
I'm not familiar with how Guild Wars works. Guild Wars 2 has server shards like WoW, is Guild Wars all on the same server? I wonder how they do it if it is like that.
I was actually talking about gw2; while there are server shards like in wow the Auction house is actually global, cross server ie; there is 1 market for every player on every server.
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Eyil✭✭No!
I wasn't aware that it worked like that! Thanks for correcting me, then!I generally agree with the idea of an auction house, but the issue here is that ESO is not WoW. The megaserver makes the idea of an auction house impossible.
If we had an auction house we'd basically have global trading, so gear would be completely trivial to obtain since the prices would be driven down so low. The only solution to that would be to make items practically impossible to obtain or to make pretty much everything Bind on Pickup. It's just not viable and has to be restricted.
a global auction house works pretty well for guild wars
most bread and butter items sell for cheap (as they should because everyone can get em easily from random drops) but the rarer items and crafting materials stay valuable.
I'm not familiar with how Guild Wars works. Guild Wars 2 has server shards like WoW, is Guild Wars all on the same server? I wonder how they do it if it is like that.
I was actually talking about gw2; while there are server shards like in wow the Auction house is actually global, cross server ie; there is 1 market for every player on every server.
Nonetheless, what I said is also Zenimax Online's official stance on the matter. I think I could live without it but I can definitely see the convenience in an auction house and certainly wouldn't mind having one in-game.
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Brennan✭✭✭No!LadyInTheWater wrote: »That comment is ridiculous...THINK before you post.
@Dyvim It makes sense that you'd be condescending yet again, as you have been through this entire thread.
1) Your reasoning for a global AH has most likely been considered by the devs prior to the start of their design process, was found inappropriate for this game, and the idea was discarded. So, it's possible that you're a little angry.
2) I have the unfortunate luck of being a woman, in an online game, who does think independently, and you probably feel like you have to take me down a peg.
He's like that in every thread he posts in.
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes!
Nope. Most of the time I can't find the item I need for any price. It's simply not there at all, because the market can't deliver due to its inadequate size.
Though I will admit the few times I do find them for sale they are unreasonably priced. But I pay it anyway out of desperation knowing full well I'm being ripped off.
But your necessary caveat isn't accurate and assumes the item is for sale just at prices people are unwilling to pay. That's not true. Most of the time it's not there at all, at any price.
First, thank you for responding to me.
Second, you are wrong.
You're welcome ^^ But I'm not wrong. I regularly scan the Guild Stores for items I am looking for and they are no where to be found.
So you can say these items are always up for sale people just don't want to pay the prices. But that's just not the case.
Edited by Jeremy on April 29, 2014 12:12PM2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes!sociald100ub17_ESO wrote: »sociald100ub17_ESO wrote: »It would guarantee a better selection because it would have more people supplying the market.
It would only guarantee anyone who tries to sell for a fair price gets bought out by a bot who shorts the market of an item and then puts it up for a high price when they are the only seller. it will happen.
Apparently you haven't been around a lot of mmo's where this has happened then as ive seen this very thing happen lots of times.
I have played a lot of MMORPGs with public auction houses. Final Fantasy 11, World of Warcraft, Aion, Guild Wars 2, Final Fantasy 14, Lord Of the Rings Online etc. And on none of them was there bots that hijacked the whole economy because the market was open to the public.
My experiences with auction houses on MMORPGs have been generally good. They work quite well. Much better than the Guild Stores on this game do.Edited by Jeremy on April 29, 2014 12:07PM4 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes!No thanks. I don't want to have to accept one market that is manipulated by gold sellers, market capitalists, and 12 year olds trying to make a fortune off of a single item.
Then don't use it. You would be welcome to keep using your Guild Stores if you don't want to risk doing business with gold sellers, capitalists, and 12 year olds.
But for those of us who want to use a public market we should have that option. Because these Guild Stores just aren't doing it for a lot of us.Edited by Jeremy on April 29, 2014 12:07PM4 -
Viverim✭✭Yes!joshisanonymous wrote: »It benefits those who are willing to search flea-market style because they're more likely to find that deal. It doesn't so much benefit those who don't want to shop around, but they'll simply buy something at whatever price they find if they need to. As a result of the group that's too lazy to search, it benefits people who want to be able to sell their goods for an actual profit.
The only people who can't benefit from this system are those who don't want to put any effort into it. But, because effort is required, the payoff for those willing to do it is greater.
First of all, I think you need to consider how many (and there are a lot) in this thread have pointed out that they can't find what they are looking for at any price, inflated or not. So this is a hollow argument.
Second, you seem to be saying that since the current system benefits the minority greatly (you apparently among them) and puts the vast majority at a disadvantage it is a good system.
Make a handful happy.... agitate the majority... How is this good again?joshisanonymous wrote: »Maybe, but it seems unlikely. When traits start taking 7+ days to research, regular Joes are gonna be like, "Uhh, to hell with this. I'll find a way to pay for things or to farm drops." Take DAoC as an example: it was difficult to wade through pages of items to find a deal (effort, as is needed in ESO as well) and it took a huge amount of time to level up a single craft. The result? A limited number of crafters. I knew a handful of crafters in that game and I made sure to be super friendly with them because they were actually valuable. They could also regularly sell their wares at a profit. Even years later, when it became exponentially easier to level up a craft, I was personally able to regularly make substantial profits just by selling items I made.
I'd wager that someone who would not normally craft would simply not be patient enough to level a craft in ESO. It's pretty time consuming and not fun for someone who likes to run around hack-n-slashing. Heck, go look at the PvP tactics forum. There are numerous people there who can't even handle the fact that they have to play this game's PvE to level up at a reasonable pace. If they can't handle that, and they're also too lazy to hunt flea-market style for a good deal, are they suddenly gonna take up crafting? My guess is they'll simply buy your wares, at pretty much whatever price you decide to sell at.
As was stated in my response, I can't claim how this would work out. Pointing to DOaC may or may not be relevant here, as this isn't DOaC, but regardless I even said I have no frame of reference to judge.
My point was that basic crafting (the ability to upgrade items from white to green to blue, etc) can be achieved fairly easily. And if you want to craft your own gear at a basic level it doesn't require many skill points. Additionally, someone who only wants to make stuff for themselves isn't going to research all of the traits, only the one or two that they use most often. This doesn't actually require a lot of patience. It's monumental for me because I am trying to master the crafts I am focusing on, requiring research in everything, but that's different from what I am talking about.joshisanonymous wrote: »(Not sure why you still claim that you have no idea what something is worth after my explanation of how guilds still compete. You know what the item is worth in your guild, right? Well, that's the whole local market. Not listed? Ok, then it's worth infinity. Not selling? Ask around. Maybe pay attention to /zone. Maybe see if your guildmates can find it in their other guilds cheaper. Saying you have no idea what it's worth everywhere and therefore will not sell it is like a farmer in Malaysia deciding that they can't be bothered to sell rice because they don't know what it's worth in Canada. They know pretty well what it's worth in Malaysia, and they have to make a living...)
Let's see... Malaysia... what's the population there again? More than 500, right? Just checking. And rice is soooo bad of an example. It's a food staple. Pretty sure any market you go into will be selling it. Not hard to find the price on that. And pretty sure that the local farmer (surrounded by other farmers) doesn't have too much trouble selling his crop to the city, where there are no farmers. And since information is easy to obtain about where other farmers are selling their crop, and what they are selling it for, he also has more information than I do, so his choice is more informed.joshisanonymous wrote: »Edit: It doesn't promote guild isolation, btw, because all the guilds are ultimately tied together through a huge network. It's the same as in the real world. Pretend that each guild is a country with its own economy, but then there's the bigger economy. The economy of Pakhistan might have no direct connection to the economy of South Africa, but I'm sure they're both connected within a couple steps through other countries. It's the same with guilds. If no one in Guild A is also in Guild Z, it doesn't mean they're isolated from each other. Some members of Guild A might be in Guild F, and some in Guild F are in Guild P, which has some members in Guild Z. As a result, prices set in Guild A have the potential to ripple over to Guild Z, even though there's no clear connection. (And maybe think of /zone chat as a less efficient internet that connects all the guilds in a different way. Or maybe a black market. I dunno, find a metaphor.)
All of this "guild searching" is great if you love the market meta-game. Personally if I only have an hour to play I don't want to waste it trying to look and look and look through guild stores and spamming out chat. I'm an adventurer so I want to... you know... adventure...
-The "Bot" Thing -
As for everyone worried about the bots, I would like to point out that in a recent interview Zenimax stated that they are aware of the problems and that something like 75% of their current customer service is dealing with bots. This is why bug fixes are so slow and response times are dragging. They are aware of the problem and they are struggling to deal with it. Personally I expect that at some point they will get this solidly under control, but others may disagree. In my own opinion, I think you could set up rules on a larger market system which would help to deal with the issue of under-pricing (a hard code below which things could not be posted in the store, based on the gold value of items which you could sell to the vendors maybe?)
p.s. - Dang it! I gotta stop posting these 'wall of text' replies...
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wafffllesss✭✭✭While we don't have one, I've seen some Online Auction Houses such as forums and blogs, that didn't satisfied me, with that in mind I'm developing my own online auction house from zero, and I'm almost there. Here in this post is an early screen shot:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/85790/the-khajiit-caravan-online-auction-house#latest0 -
Daverios✭✭✭✭No!Crazy how many people do not understand why it is so easy to game an AH.
I waa able to make millions in WoW without ever leaving town. Just buy up all of one item and relist at 3 or 4 times as much, if anyone lists lower buy thiers up too. Rinse repeat and become super rich. Why do you think stock and commodity exchanges in the real have so many rules and regulations? AH is the worst thing for sny game period. If you disagree that is fine but you are only doing so because you are lazy and blind and unable to make an objective assessment.
Glad these people will never have the skill or knowledge to make a video game. So much whine, anyone got some cheese to go with it?4 -
methjester✭✭✭Yes!Crazy how many people do not understand why it is so easy to game an AH.
I waa able to make millions in WoW without ever leaving town. Just buy up all of one item and relist at 3 or 4 times as much, if anyone lists lower buy thiers up too. Rinse repeat and become super rich. Why do you think stock and commodity exchanges in the real have so many rules and regulations? AH is the worst thing for sny game period. If you disagree that is fine but you are only doing so because you are lazy and blind and unable to make an objective assessment.
Glad these people will never have the skill or knowledge to make a video game. So much whine, anyone got some cheese to go with it?
I was a WOW millionaire as well. I also had time to raid, get achievements and do whatever I wanted. In this game if I want to make any kind of bank for what comes down the pike I'm going to have to do zone shouts and hope a buyer is in my cluster. The only games I can compare the selling to are original EQ and Dark Ages and they came out in 99 and 2000. I do not miss selling things by the bag at the third torch in the East common tunnels.
I think with the sheer amount of players and lack of of individual servers buying a single commodity is going to be an impossible undertaking. Good luck cornering any single market in a truly global market here in ESO.
For a game with this many players that's unacceptable. I should be able to reach more than a few hundred people at a time.
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Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes!Larger markets create healthier economies. This is a basic economic model that's been in play in the real world for centuries, and in various MMO's now for 15 + years. ESO's economy is in a shambles. It's broken to the point of being almost completely non existent.1 -
Daverios✭✭✭✭No!Drachenfier wrote: »Larger markets create healthier economies. This is a basic economic model that's been in play in the real world for centuries, and in various MMO's now for 15 + years. ESO's economy is in a shambles. It's broken to the point of being almost completely non existent.
You have a global market already. It simply is not instant as it should be. Do the legwork.
Lots of games already have an AH. This game does not need it. Its the only thing that softened the dupe impact on economy. That alone should be reaso n enough.
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