Maintenance for the week of September 15:
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
· Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
· PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
· Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
· PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
Auction House
-
joshisanonymous✭✭✭✭No!methjester wrote: »I've been trying really hard to think of a game with a lot of players (such as ESO) that did not have anything like an auction house, but then had one introduced and the game's foundation got so shaken it went belly up and died. I cannot. I believe I have played almost every major MMO, most AA titles, and a lot of weird ones along the way and I cannot recall a single instance where the introduction of an auction house was the instrument of the games downfall.
However... If you are dead set againt ESO Auction houses please find me and others like me a way to distribute my wares to you, and everyone else at fair competitive prices in a time consuming manor. Set up that trade district zone, establish a world wide network. Be a part of the solution instead of saying no no no, an AH Will destroy. Come up with something creative instead of saying no, I just don't want it. We all know the current system won't work.
Me, I just want to buy and sell so I can get better stuff. And deep down, so do you.
Just because you can't recall an MMO that began without an auction house then was ruined by the introduction of one, does not mean that the argument that an auction house could ruin the economy is invalid. If you could show that most MMOs fit into the general description of "had no auction house then added one," then your argument might be stronger. Otherwise, you kinda just have to stick to arguing about whether games with auction houses have better economies than those without, or just argue it in theoretical terms as applicable to ESO specifically.
A lot has been suggested about how to work with the current economy already. I think choosing your trading-focused guilds wisely is the best. Imagine your guild as your country: if your country's economy sucks, it might be worth moving somewhere else. I also suspect that some zones will become trading hubs after the majority of players hit the max level. This would help make pedaling wares through /zone more reasonable. Ultimately, the game is still new, and I think the economy can work, but it needs to mature a bit before it can be judged properly as a success or failure. Even MMOs with auction houses need time to mature.Edited by joshisanonymous on April 30, 2014 6:38PM1 -
methjester✭✭✭Yes!Waiting months for guild stores to maybe settle out doesn't sound like a good solution. Am I waiting for players to quit and better ones to join? Am I dropping guild after guild looking for better ones? I'm all for being social but man, I have no desire to keep guild hopping in search of the perfect guild store. I would rather use my allotted guilds to actually be with game friends and do game stuff.
I know this game is new but there is no framework for any sort of player run economy. There is no hub city. There can be no mass hang out zone. Guild stores as is are poorly implemented.
I would like to add that when Everquest added the Auction house, and when Dark ages added consignment players spent significantly LESS time in town and out doing things. That was a long time ago, you may not have been around. There was am MMO called Horizons that had an entire player driven economy, no AH mobs dropped crafting stuff only. It did not last long.2 -
SequiturSoul ShrivenYes!Dear ESO:
PLEASE put in an auction house. It is absolutely necessary, and I am really missing this aspect of the game. It would allow a much more fair and efficient use of time and game resources.
Guild stores absolutely suck. Having to join four guilds, just to transact in the game economy, with wildly differing prices, is horrendous. I can't properly search for items. Guild members do not respond to requests, and I don't blame them: chat is jammed with guild chat because of the five guild allowance.
Nothing sells on guild stores. And I don't buy from them, either, because I can't properly search, and I do not want to waste game time comparing five guild stores on price for every single purchase or sale.
The guild store idea does NOT work. At all. Recognize the mistake, and recode for a unified auction house.4 -
Dyvim✭✭✭Yes!joshisanonymous wrote: »AHs don't create gold or add gold to the system. They do no create inflation. They allow buyers and sellers to easily transact, and if they are feature rich, they provide historical data on pricing, etc. Ideally, crafters should be making items to sell, not making daggers for a partner to decon. But that is another issue, albeit related, since again THIS GAME STIFLES economic activity. Crafting can be tedious or a hassle at times, especially with this games inventory tetris...so the last thing you want to add on TOP of that is the frustration of unnecessary difficulty in selling your items or in buying mats you might need.
In fact, you can easily argue that as a gold sink, since every transaction is taxed, removing gold from the system, AHs do a better job at fighting inflation than almost anything else...and the more transactions they facilitate, the MORE GOLD they remove. It is hilarious to see the misinformed somehow equate AHs with inflation.
Uh, he didn't mention anything about inflation in that post. He did mention inflation in a previous post, but explicitly stated that it is caused by increases in player population, not by auction houses.
You're claiming people are misinformed about how economies function yet you can't even pay enough attention to be informed about what the person you're speaking to is actually saying. It's easy to win an argument through fallacies, yours being one.
More on topic, you're equating efficiency with quality. As an example of how this is not always true: Just because I, living in the US, can buy something directly from some manufacturer in some developing country on the other side of the world for way cheaper than I could from the mom-and-pop store down the street, without ever leaving my house, doesn't mean that this arrangement is beneficial to my community and, ultimately, me. It may be, it may not be, but this is most definitely not determined purely by which arrangement is more efficient.
ROFL, I was responding to his last several posts without the quotations clutter. The points are all still as valid. Player population is not the determinate of inflation...it is a potential factor, but the faucets in the game for gold introduction are the primary issue...in relation to the gold sinks in the game. You could have a game with 100 players, that have a given playstyle, that has more rampant inflation than the same game with 1000 players that might play differently. For example, alts can be expensive to gear, etc. So players with a lot of alts in a given game might hit more gold sinks than players that don't alt it up.
Now, to your last post, which is really ironic, since you mention my fallacies...WHAT DOES QUALITY have to do with digital items or commodities that are all identical? Ore is ore, etc. There are no hidden quality issues. Furthermore, there are NO such considerations as tariffs, protectionism, VATs, or whatever else you might care to come up with in some bogus straw man argument that you hope will distract from the ESSENCE, the CORE of this discussion. Let me make it simple for you.
You have people that want to sell things. You have people that want to buy things. They want to do this as efficiently and as quickly as possible, with as much information available to them as possible about pricing and availability in the market. You have a game that needs to facilitate these transaction, in a user friendly fashion, ideally with a robust interface that isn't a fugitive from prior decades. You also have a game that desperately needs a real economy, with more active, functional gold sinks. What is at the heart of any economy? Commerce. Transactions of buying and selling. The more a game works to efficiently facilitate commerce, the more robust its economy will be, and the more transactions, the more gold you have removed from the economy.
You have a game that WANTS people to engage in crafting, a pursuit whose normal state is to SELL some or all of what you make. You also have a game that promotes gathering resources, which also have a built in demand by said crafters.
Now, those are the facts, as simple as it can get. If there is a better fit for a solution to the issues or requirements that those facts lay out than a robust, well implemented AH, then no MMO, anywhere, has ever come up with a better answer. It is also INCREDIBLY obvious that the current facilities in this game of small, fragmented markets, with incredibly poor tools and interfaces, which require multiple uses of those incredibly poor tools and interfaces across up to 5 of those small, inefficient markets, is about as far from an optimal solution to the situation described by the above set of facts as you can get.Edited by Dyvim on April 30, 2014 8:19PMAngels are bright still, though the brightest fell... -S.3 -
Tusnelda✭✭Yes!More people voted since the last time I looked at this poll, but still the same result: 60% want an Auction House and 39% don't.
Maybe there should have been the option: "I would not mind if there would be an Auction House and Guild Stores side by side." But for now the conclusion is clear: We'd prefer to have an Auction House.Please remove @userid from Tamriel and replace it with our charnames1 -
Shimizu✭✭Yes!After the last few weeks, I'm 'for' an auction house even more than ever just from how annoying the chat has become with WTS/WTB spam and five guild chats doing it as well.0
-
Thechemicals✭✭✭✭✭No!No means no people. This is definately grounds to cancel my sub, the game sold with the guild store features, and i bought it because i like that idea over the walmart house feature that you people are getting withdrawals from other mmos from.Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
Vr14 Dk bow/2h
Brayan Blackthunder
Goddick
Daggerfall Covenant4 -
Opioid✭✭✭Yes!Thechemicals wrote: »No means no people. This is definately grounds to cancel my sub, the game sold with the guild store features, and i bought it because i like that idea over the walmart house feature that you people are getting withdrawals from other mmos from.
An auction house seems like a silly reason to cancel your subscription.
I support the idea of an AH in this game, but you don't see me threatening to cancel my sub if they don't add one. It amuses me to see all these rabid anti-AH people that just seem to get more and more angry at the opinions of other people that think an AH would be a good idea, even down to the point of generalized assumptions, insults and even personal attacks.
1 -
methjester✭✭✭Yes!Thechemicals wrote: »No means no people. This is definately grounds to cancel my sub, the game sold with the guild store features, and i bought it because i like that idea over the walmart house feature that you people are getting withdrawals from other mmos from.
An auction house seems like a silly reason to cancel your subscription.
I support the idea of an AH in this game, but you don't see me threatening to cancel my sub if they don't add one. It amuses me to see all these rabid anti-AH people that just seem to get more and more angry at the opinions of other people that think an AH would be a good idea, even down to the point of generalized assumptions, insults and even personal attacks.
Fanboys right? Ain't no Auction house in Skyrim.
1 -
Brennan✭✭✭No!methjester wrote: »Thechemicals wrote: »No means no people. This is definately grounds to cancel my sub, the game sold with the guild store features, and i bought it because i like that idea over the walmart house feature that you people are getting withdrawals from other mmos from.
An auction house seems like a silly reason to cancel your subscription.
I support the idea of an AH in this game, but you don't see me threatening to cancel my sub if they don't add one. It amuses me to see all these rabid anti-AH people that just seem to get more and more angry at the opinions of other people that think an AH would be a good idea, even down to the point of generalized assumptions, insults and even personal attacks.
Fanboys right? Ain't no Auction house in Skyrim.
There is no AH in ESO either. I don't get why people don't understand that.
0 -
Brennan✭✭✭No!
You agree to it when you accept the subscription cost.
This game does not have an AH.
This was a design decision by the developer/publisher.
If you don't agree with that design decision, stop paying the subscription.
I want to do all crafting professions on one character.
Blizzard made a design decision to only let me do two.
I don't agree so I don't pay for a WoW subscription anymore.
Seems pretty simple to me.
1 -
Opioid✭✭✭Yes!
You agree to it when you accept the subscription cost.
This game does not have an AH.
This was a design decision by the developer/publisher.
If you don't agree with that design decision, stop paying the subscription.
I want to do all crafting professions on one character.
Blizzard made a design decision to only let me do two.
I don't agree so I don't pay for a WoW subscription anymore.
Seems pretty simple to me.
I have my own opinion. You have your own opinion. Seems pretty simple to me too.
Just because I don't disagree with a design decision doesn't mean that I need to cancel my subscription. That is an extremist response and makes no sense. If you feel that strongly and want to cancel your subscription due to a minor game feature like that, so be it.
I'm enjoying playing ESO. The lack of an AH does not negatively affect my enjoyment. I simply am of the opinion that some kind of more accessible AH or market with a larger reach would be more useful than the current guild store system.
1 -
Brennan✭✭✭No!
You agree to it when you accept the subscription cost.
This game does not have an AH.
This was a design decision by the developer/publisher.
If you don't agree with that design decision, stop paying the subscription.
I want to do all crafting professions on one character.
Blizzard made a design decision to only let me do two.
I don't agree so I don't pay for a WoW subscription anymore.
Seems pretty simple to me.
I have my own opinion. You have your own opinion. Seems pretty simple to me too.
Just because I don't disagree with a design decision doesn't mean that I need to cancel my subscription. That is an extremist response and makes no sense. If you feel that strongly and want to cancel your subscription due to a minor game feature like that, so be it.
I'm enjoying playing ESO. The lack of an AH does not negatively affect my enjoyment. I simply am of the opinion that some kind of more accessible AH or market with a larger reach would be more useful than the current guild store system.
And you may be right. I disagree and so does the Creative Director of the game.
2 -
methjester✭✭✭Yes!
You agree to it when you accept the subscription cost.
This game does not have an AH.
This was a design decision by the developer/publisher.
If you don't agree with that design decision, stop paying the subscription.
I want to do all crafting professions on one character.
Blizzard made a design decision to only let me do two.
I don't agree so I don't pay for a WoW subscription anymore.
Seems pretty simple to me.
Why must everything be equated to Blizzard? For a game that supposedly sucks this game gets compared to it an awful lot and this game has about 5000 miles and 9 years to go to catch it. So lets just leave the comparisons at home before some fanboys get hurt.
Edited by methjester on May 6, 2014 4:32PM0 -
Brennan✭✭✭No!methjester wrote: »
You agree to it when you accept the subscription cost.
This game does not have an AH.
This was a design decision by the developer/publisher.
If you don't agree with that design decision, stop paying the subscription.
I want to do all crafting professions on one character.
Blizzard made a design decision to only let me do two.
I don't agree so I don't pay for a WoW subscription anymore.
Seems pretty simple to me.
Why must everything be equated to Blizzard? For a game that supposedly sucks this game gets compared to it an awful lot and this game has about 5000 miles and 9 years to go to catch it. So lets just leave the comparisons at home before some fanboys get hurt.
You can compare it to any game you want. It still doesn't have an AH.
I know that comes as a surprise since you bought it thinking it would have an AH like every other MMO. It doesn't.
Welcome to ESO. Enjoy your stay.
2 -
Thechemicals✭✭✭✭✭No!Thechemicals wrote: »No means no people. This is definately grounds to cancel my sub, the game sold with the guild store features, and i bought it because i like that idea over the walmart house feature that you people are getting withdrawals from other mmos from.
An auction house seems like a silly reason to cancel your subscription.
I support the idea of an AH in this game, but you don't see me threatening to cancel my sub if they don't add one. It amuses me to see all these rabid anti-AH people that just seem to get more and more angry at the opinions of other people that think an AH would be a good idea, even down to the point of generalized assumptions, insults and even personal attacks.
Its not if you played the Ah walmart mmos. You play them and then get everything from the AH and the experience and funfactor of finding and dealing socially is gone then you get bored and move on. Not silly when you think.
Def a cancel sub deal for me. Maybe not you but hey, thats like... your opinion.
Edited by Thechemicals on May 6, 2014 4:36PMVr14 Templar since release- dual resto
Vr14 Dk bow/2h
Brayan Blackthunder
Goddick
Daggerfall Covenant0 -
methjester✭✭✭Yes!methjester wrote: »
You agree to it when you accept the subscription cost.
This game does not have an AH.
This was a design decision by the developer/publisher.
If you don't agree with that design decision, stop paying the subscription.
I want to do all crafting professions on one character.
Blizzard made a design decision to only let me do two.
I don't agree so I don't pay for a WoW subscription anymore.
Seems pretty simple to me.
Why must everything be equated to Blizzard? For a game that supposedly sucks this game gets compared to it an awful lot and this game has about 5000 miles and 9 years to go to catch it. So lets just leave the comparisons at home before some fanboys get hurt.
You can compare it to any game you want. It still doesn't have an AH.
I know that comes as a surprise since you bought it thinking it would have an AH like every other MMO. It doesn't.
Welcome to ESO. Enjoy your stay.
I am enjoying my stay thank you. I just like to point out that every MMO does in fact have an auction house. Can't imagine there is a reason for that one though. Oh well, auction houses must be silly therefore validating the sheer awesomeness of this holdout.0 -
Brennan✭✭✭No!methjester wrote: »methjester wrote: »
You agree to it when you accept the subscription cost.
This game does not have an AH.
This was a design decision by the developer/publisher.
If you don't agree with that design decision, stop paying the subscription.
I want to do all crafting professions on one character.
Blizzard made a design decision to only let me do two.
I don't agree so I don't pay for a WoW subscription anymore.
Seems pretty simple to me.
Why must everything be equated to Blizzard? For a game that supposedly sucks this game gets compared to it an awful lot and this game has about 5000 miles and 9 years to go to catch it. So lets just leave the comparisons at home before some fanboys get hurt.
You can compare it to any game you want. It still doesn't have an AH.
I know that comes as a surprise since you bought it thinking it would have an AH like every other MMO. It doesn't.
Welcome to ESO. Enjoy your stay.
I am enjoying my stay thank you. I just like to point out that every MMO does in fact have an auction house. Can't imagine there is a reason for that one though. Oh well, auction houses must be silly therefore validating the sheer awesomeness of this holdout.
Maybe you shouldn't compare ESO to other MMOs, from Blizzard or any other developer/publisher.
0 -
methjester✭✭✭Yes!methjester wrote: »methjester wrote: »
You agree to it when you accept the subscription cost.
This game does not have an AH.
This was a design decision by the developer/publisher.
If you don't agree with that design decision, stop paying the subscription.
I want to do all crafting professions on one character.
Blizzard made a design decision to only let me do two.
I don't agree so I don't pay for a WoW subscription anymore.
Seems pretty simple to me.
Why must everything be equated to Blizzard? For a game that supposedly sucks this game gets compared to it an awful lot and this game has about 5000 miles and 9 years to go to catch it. So lets just leave the comparisons at home before some fanboys get hurt.
You can compare it to any game you want. It still doesn't have an AH.
I know that comes as a surprise since you bought it thinking it would have an AH like every other MMO. It doesn't.
Welcome to ESO. Enjoy your stay.
I am enjoying my stay thank you. I just like to point out that every MMO does in fact have an auction house. Can't imagine there is a reason for that one though. Oh well, auction houses must be silly therefore validating the sheer awesomeness of this holdout.
Maybe you shouldn't compare ESO to other MMOs, from Blizzard or any other developer/publisher.
If I compare it to itself it's a bug ridden economyless botfest. I'm looking for other positives from other games.Edited by methjester on May 6, 2014 5:15PM0 -
Brennan✭✭✭No!Games that have guild stores: ESO
Games that don't have guild stores: Every other game known to the MMO-verse.
It seems your choice is clear.1 -
methjester✭✭✭Yes!Games that have guild stores: ESO
Games that don't have guild stores: Every other game known to the MMO-verse.
It seems your choice is clear.
I suppose if you like non functional limited searches by no more than 500 loosely affiliated people with a poorly designed user interface you have made your choice. Kudos to you my good sir!Edited by methjester on May 6, 2014 5:54PM0 -
SunfireKnight86✭✭✭✭Yes!1) Aside from EVE Online, it's got more players packed into a single server than any other game.
2) It allows you to join not one, but up to five different guilds.
3) The social hubs (friends lists, guilds, etc) revolve around your username, so even if you're on an alt, you can still socialize with your friends without needing to send them a whisper saying "Oh, I'm on an alt".
4) The content isn't always solo-friendly (unless you're a darn good player).
5) You don't even necessarily need to be in a group to enjoy content with other players.
6) The guild store is designed around the idea of buying and selling with the people in you (hopefully) know.
7) The classes allow you to perform multiple roles in a group setting, which makes it easier to find a way to play with others.
1) So? If everyone is solo'ing then that doesn't matter at all.
2) And the 5 guilds cap you at 2500 people out of nearly a million. That would be like walmart only selling to people whose last names ended in a v.
3) I actually find it harder to keep up with whose who since their name isn't reflected at all in their handle. If I grouped with someone three weeks ago and added them as a friend I'm going to have no clue who they are.
4) Everything in this game can be solo'd except dungeons and PvP. I've done it. Hell, the story is solo only.
5) If by "don't need to be in a group to enjoy it" you mean someone else happens to be killing the same mob as you and you enjoyed it.
6) Yes, that's the problem. I want to sell to everyone, not just 2500 people I talk to in guild12345.
7) "Play your own way" = Anyone can do anything. Between that and the terrible VR content there is never a reason to roll another toon.
You can fix at least some of these problems by just adding a damn auction house.
Edited by SunfireKnight86 on May 6, 2014 6:02PM1 -
Brennan✭✭✭No!methjester wrote: »Games that have guild stores: ESO
Games that don't have guild stores: Every other game known to the MMO-verse.
It seems your choice is clear.
I suppose if you like non functional limited searches by no more than 500 loosely affiliated people with a poorly designed user interface you have made your choice. Kudos to you my good sir!
I am happy with my choice.
I am really sorry that you are not. But look on the bright side - there are literally hundreds of other games that have the AH you are looking for.
Good luck!
1 -
SunfireKnight86✭✭✭✭Yes!methjester wrote: »Games that have guild stores: ESO
Games that don't have guild stores: Every other game known to the MMO-verse.
It seems your choice is clear.
I suppose if you like non functional limited searches by no more than 500 loosely affiliated people with a poorly designed user interface you have made your choice. Kudos to you my good sir!
I am happy with my choice.
I am really sorry that you are not. But look on the bright side - there are literally hundreds of other games that have the AH you are looking for.
Good luck!
That sounds familiar. Do you work for ZOS customer service by any chance?
2 -
methjester✭✭✭Yes!methjester wrote: »Games that have guild stores: ESO
Games that don't have guild stores: Every other game known to the MMO-verse.
It seems your choice is clear.
I suppose if you like non functional limited searches by no more than 500 loosely affiliated people with a poorly designed user interface you have made your choice. Kudos to you my good sir!
I am happy with my choice.
I am really sorry that you are not. But look on the bright side - there are literally hundreds of other games that have the AH you are looking for.
Good luck!
It's cool bro, you like the corner store that sells 10 brands of overpriced soda, I would like to go to the store that sells 1000 varieties at half price. Whatever makes YOU happy. What's good for the game is unimportant.4 -
SunfireKnight86✭✭✭✭Yes!I get what they were going for with this system. They wanted it to be like other Elder Scrolls where you had to shop around to find what you want. It doesn't feel like that though, it just feels like /zone +wayshrine is the only way to sell anything.0
-
Brennan✭✭✭No!methjester wrote: »methjester wrote: »Games that have guild stores: ESO
Games that don't have guild stores: Every other game known to the MMO-verse.
It seems your choice is clear.
I suppose if you like non functional limited searches by no more than 500 loosely affiliated people with a poorly designed user interface you have made your choice. Kudos to you my good sir!
I am happy with my choice.
I am really sorry that you are not. But look on the bright side - there are literally hundreds of other games that have the AH you are looking for.
Good luck!
It's cool bro, you like the corner store that sells 10 brands of overpriced soda, I would like to go to the store that sells 1000 varieties at half price. Whatever makes YOU happy. What's good for the game is unimportant.
My question to you is what specific qualifications do you have to speak intelligently on what is good or not good for the game?
I am intelligent and mature enough to recognize that this game is different from other games. You fail to recognize that and so long as you continue to fail to recognize that you will continue to rage and fester and pout.
This game does not have an AH. It was a design decision and ZOS has given no indication that they are ever putting in a AH - get over it.
Or, you know, keep raging about a game that doesn't have an AH by screaming at the top of your lungs, "This game doesn't have an AH!"
0 -
SunfireKnight86✭✭✭✭Yes!They'll put one in, or something just like one. It's just a question of when.2