sociald100ub17_ESO wrote: »

It would guarantee a better selection because it would have more people supplying the market.

It would only guarantee anyone who tries to sell for a fair price gets bought out by a bot who shorts the market of an item and then puts it up for a high price when they are the only seller. it will happen.

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If there was a such a bot it would be banned as it would be quite obvious on the market boards if someone named a;slkf was buying every item up and then reposting it.

I think you're exaggerating the threat of this super bot that will somehow hijack the whole economy. It's not going to happen.

ESO have by far the worst AH I have ever seen. It's just junk!!

I'm "lucky" to be in several guilds that have 20+ pages of things to sell. But I don’t want to use an hour looking through it all. The filters in ESO AH are just poor. There are not much filter options, and no search options.

1. First of all the AH should be a server wide AH. (At least faction wide)
2. And it should have buy and sell order.
3. Good filtering (many options)
4. And good search function.

And don't bother telling me to stand in town for an hour selling/buying stuff in trade channel. I want to use my 2-3 hours a day playing, not standing around in town for half the time.

For me this one thing will tell me if they (Z) really take the players seriously. I doubt it, but for now I still hope they will.

people would be willing to spend hours and hours on trade chat? even though the trade chat is already filled with gold sellers, advertisement and its just hard. people what is wrong with auction house, if ya don't like it don't use it.

Jeremy wrote: »

Nope. Most of the time I can't find the item I need for any price. It's simply not there at all, because the market can't deliver due to its inadequate size.

Though I will admit the few times I do find them for sale they are unreasonably priced. But I pay it anyway out of desperation knowing full well I'm being ripped off.

But your necessary caveat isn't accurate and assumes the item is for sale just at prices people are unwilling to pay. That's not true. Most of the time it's not there at all, at any price.

First, thank you for responding to me.

Second, you are wrong. Any hoarder likely has many of those items for sale, but do not want to sell them because they place a high value on them and want them for future use. (I am one of those.) Offer enough money in /zone (the current trade chat) and I'll sell. I have no intention of selling my car, but if you walked up to me and offered me mroe money than my perceived value, I'd sell it to you and walk home whistling.

But, that goes back to my caveat: it is too much for you to want to pay.

We can agree to disagree here, but I honestly think you're expectation is off. A new market will not have everything that you want at a click and you shouldn't expect it to. I would wager that even if we had a global AH, those "in-demand" items (tempurs, rare-traits, etc.) would still not be on the AH very often and would still be priced too highly from your perspective. The nature of "high demand" ...

It'll slow eventually and those items will be more available at a lower price. Give it time.

RomedyMC wrote: »

4.) Education on "Differentially Segregated Markets" and why you really do not understand the purpose of the "Trading Guild".

In case you missed it, that was my answer to why a bigger market is not always better. But Romedy! having one universal AH solves all of that! Then you entirely missed my point That only serves to make the rich players richer and ensures that the "buying power" of 1g diminishes.

Actually the "buying power" of 1g is doomed to diminish in any game economy where gold and resources can be spontaneously created. What is needed to keep the buying power of gold higher are gold sinks which destroy gold for no return, not smaller markets.

RomedyMC wrote: »

Enter the Trading Guild. Each trading guild differentially segregates our 3 monster markets since the guilds allow players from all 3 factions. So the trading guilds serve to maintain the balance between the 3 alliances by being "pipelines".

However, each guild is itself a small market. And! Since the markets are all selling the same thing they are in competition! Meaning if you cannot find that beech shield w/ Divines that you need perhaps you should consider looking for a better "trading" guild. Or, at the very least, look at the trading guilds you have and see how many people are online and active.

The trading guilds, however, are not actually in competition with each other. They would be if you knew what the prices everyone else was selling for was, but there is no way to advertise your guild prices to anyone outside of your guild, and thus no way anyone would know that Guild X is selling maple for 5g while Guild Z is selling it for 15g. Competition only works when the sellers are competing. Right now, they're not.

RomedyMC wrote: »

* Look at your trading guild roster. Get out of guilds that aren't capped at 500 or have a ton of inactive players.
* If you have an extra guild slot, take a risk on a brand new trading guil. Get in, sell your stuff at the price you want, and get out. Worst case the guild winds up small and inactive like the one you left. Best case? You get a new, active guild and can make a profit.
* Actively seek a crafting guild. These generally are more generous with trait exchange and can be a cheap source of good gear while the crafters level.
* Even if you are in 5 guilds, actively seek established, full trading guilds. You are more likely to find what you want for a better price.
* Understand the game is 1 month old. The market is still an infant and you cannot expect it to look like a mature game's market. Prices are going to be volatile, supply/demand will have relative fluctuations, and there will be gaps in supply.

Regards,

Romedy

I'm not sure if you have played a lot of online games or not, but most of the people I know don't like to guild hop, which is your suggestion for fixing things. Your own experiences may be very different from mine, but I find that people aren't looking at guilds as "oh, this is my market", they are looking at guilds as "oh, these are my adventuring partners".

Also, guilds don't include everyone, especially low level characters. Right now I have no incentive at all to craft lower level gear other than to give it to my alts. But if I had access to a wider market then I might just go into, say, Malabal Tor and make a set of Vampire gear (yes, this is a crafting set) out of steel and sell it in the level appropriate zone. If I make it blue then it has value which will last, and a lower level might actually purchase such a thing.

I also agree that I would prefer to see something other than the same-old same-old. My own suggestino was to have markets in each zone that were unique to that zone. Want Maple? sell it in Auridon. Need Dwarven Ore? go look in Reaper's March. Now, your suggestion about player imbalances is something I hadn't thought about, and full points and credit for going there, however, if you do level appropriate markets tied to their respective zones then you could tie all three factions to the same market, but again limit them to zones. Thus instead of three markets or one huge mega-market, you would have five or six. (seven? Eight?? Not sure how to do the Veteran Levels)

I'm not claiming I have all of the answers either, but what we have right now is pretty much a hot mess.

p.s. - sorry for the editing of your earlier posts. I was trying to save some space in my reply.

Isn't this another 'I want ESO to be a carbon copy of every other boring MMO' thread?

I vote no.

sociald100ub17_ESO wrote: »

Apparently you haven't been around a lot of mmo's where this has happened then as ive seen this very thing happen lots of times. and so you ban the bot, and then another one shows up and does the same thing, meanwhile if they ban the one bought are they going to take the time to refund the items back to all the people that the bot bought out? no the items will just be gone

Why would you return the items that the bot bought out? The people who he bought it from got the gold form their purchase. Why give them back the items they were paid for? This makes no sense to me.

And your response is that we shouldn't fix the broken market because someone might break it?

My head hurts now...

Daverios wrote: »

If you support a global AH , you also support Gold Sellers.

Lets be 100% clear on this point.

And if you don't support a global AH, you drown kittens daily.

I mean, since we're just throwing accusations out there.

No thanks. I don't want to have to accept one market that is manipulated by gold sellers, market capitalists, and 12 year olds trying to make a fortune off of a single item.

why you don't want me to sell to everyone ?

AbraCadabra wrote: »

Fix the current guild store ui. Then see how it goes.

The gold sellers and bots are horrible now. I can only imagine how bad it will be if an AH was installed.

I still don't see how the two are related.

I have a good market = I have to buy gold?

I have a bad market = I don't need gold?

Do I need to buy gold because I can buy things off the AH?

Seriously, it makes no sense to me. Wouldn't the fact that I can make gold on the AH negate the need for gold buying?

Viverim wrote: »

sociald100ub17_ESO wrote: »

Apparently you haven't been around a lot of mmo's where this has happened then as ive seen this very thing happen lots of times. and so you ban the bot, and then another one shows up and does the same thing, meanwhile if they ban the one bought are they going to take the time to refund the items back to all the people that the bot bought out? no the items will just be gone

Why would you return the items that the bot bought out? The people who he bought it from got the gold form their purchase. Why give them back the items they were paid for? This makes no sense to me.

And your response is that we shouldn't fix the broken market because someone might break it?

My head hurts now...

Your head hurts because you aren't grasping what im saying. Im saying an open world AH would break it much worse than it is now.
Im not saying you shouldn't fix it, im saying what you are suggesting wont fix it.

Red_Scarlet wrote: »

Set up requirements, that if a guild meets certain specs, they get access to a general "neutral" trading town, where they get to setup shop. They can list their items, and set there prices, etc. The shop is hosted by an NPC (hopefully you could create the look of that NPC, along with a guild banner.)

Non-guild players can access the town and shop around, allowing the players to search for their desired items. No guild strings attached.

So, one town, accessible to all members of the server, where they can search for items, but have to go to five thousand vendors to do so... How is this not a global auction house with an unbelievably bad search function? i mean other than requiring a few hundred of extra hours of coding to make a small town in the middle of wherever, How is this better than having one building in all of the capitals and such that accesses the same information, but has it all in one place?

RomedyMC wrote: »

However, each guild is itself a small market. And! Since the markets are all selling the same thing they are in competition! Meaning if you cannot find that beech shield w/ Divines that you need perhaps you should consider looking for a better "trading" guild. Or, at the very least, look at the trading guilds you have and see how many people are online and active.

I think this sort of gets to the crux of a lot of peoples' issues. I've read some comments about being in 500 person guilds where only 80 items are for sale because everyone stopped trying. That's a bad guild for trading then. If that's all you joined for, then find another. If it's not, then make one of your other guilds a trading guild. One of the guilds I'm in has 87 players and currently over 100 items for sale. I found a number of things I'd buy just skimming through.

It seems like a lot of people are used to internet shopping or didn't play games without auction houses much. There's all this talk of instant gratification and superior search functions. What about just taking some effort to learn how this economy works and playing it?

For instance, the poor search functionality that people are lamenting. It takes effort, but also means that you can potentially find really good deals that others won't find. Say someone has a really useful item that they put up for sale for a stupid low price. Say 50 other people put that item up for a stupid high price. Say 10 other people are like you and really want that item but they also don't feel like hunting for it. You, the one buyer here willing to put effort into the economy meta-game, will get that item for the stupid low price. The others might just give up entirely. Maybe it was an item with a trait and this turned them off of the idea of being a crafter all together. That means 10 crafters just disappeared, meaning you now have that much better of a chance at making money through your own crafting. (If every player in the game is a crafter, crafting is pretty useless for making money.) There are two benefits right there to the poor search functionality problem, which leads me to believe that it isn't really a problem.

Imagine how that scenario would play out with a global AH. Naive player gets a random drop that's useful for 10 people. They go to list it on the auction house and see that everyone else sells it for a gazillion gold. He lists it for a gazillion gold (minus 1s of course). You're all screwed. OR, he doesn't even bother to look at what other people are listing the item for an sells it stupid cheap, in which case it disappears immediately, probably sucked up by the people with the gazillion gold listings.

Of course, if that naive player represents way more people than the those who want to sell the item for a gazillion gold, then the price will be undercut to infinity. You can now get as many copies of this item as you want for practically nothing. That's good, in a sense, but it also means you can never expect to sell that item yourself for any profit either.

Basically, with the current system, the fact that it makes it difficult to have full knowledge of the market, means to me that almost everything can be valuable and cheap at the same time. If you're willing to put in the effort, and all the "Yes!'s" seem to be not so willing, then you should be able to do pretty well.

Viverim wrote: »

The trading guilds, however, are not actually in competition with each other. They would be if you knew what the prices everyone else was selling for was, but there is no way to advertise your guild prices to anyone outside of your guild, and thus no way anyone would know that Guild X is selling maple for 5g while Guild Z is selling it for 15g. Competition only works when the sellers are competing. Right now, they're not.

They kinda can know this, albeit not perfectly. First of all, the keep store thing would provide some insights. They might also get a clue when everyone leaves their "trade guild" because there are no good trades to be had there. But outside of those two points, remember that everyone in one guild is also in 4 other guilds, each with their own store. It's unlikely that all 500 players in Guild A are the same 500 players in Guild B, as well. This means everyone comes to the market in Guild A with a different perspective and a different idea of what's worth what. If there's an item that's desirable to a reasonable number of people in Guild A, but 2/3rds of them can find it for cheaper in one of their other guilds, then Guild A will have trouble selling it and might want to lower their prices. Or they might just remove it completely I guess. But people talk in guilds. So a Guild A member selling this desirable item may be like, "/g2 Why doesn't anyone want to buy this awesome item I have for sale?", and 5 people will response with, "Oh, I buy that from my other guild for cheaper." They can then sell it for that lower price. OR, since there are separate markets, the seller can go to one of THEIR other guilds and try to sell it again for the higher price. Maybe the members of this seller's 4th guild don't happen to be in guilds that sell that item for a cheap price and so will pay that higher price.

The point is, you don't need an auction house to know something about what happens in other guilds. You don't need any more than what you have now. The fact that it takes more effort to obtain this knowledge, though, means that the more savvy players, who are willing to put in the extra effort, will figure out where they can sell something for high and where they can buy something for low. Like I said, everything can be cheap and expensive at the same time without a global AH.

Fix the guild stores, and you won't need one.