Immersion... Is a dirty word.

Marmalade

"It will ruin the immersion". I am sick to death of hearing this stupid comment. If you want to play a 1 player RPG go and play one. This is supposed to be an MMO that you play with other people. So far this fear of breaking immersion has lead to so many flaws in the game. Lack of status effects, nameplates, a good grouping system, phasing issues that basically ruin any grouped gameplay. And when these issues are brought up the die hard ES fans bring back this buzz word.

Let me ask you this what what ruins your gameplay immersion more the option to turn on and off nameplates or 300 gold farmers camping a boss. Constant crashes that take you to login screens. Gold spammers in chat 24/

I wish Zenimax had just focused on making ESO a great mmo, and not a halfway house between a singleplayer game and an MMO. There are so many flaws that will drive the majority of mmo lovers away and enough of a change to make the die hard TESO fans not think it lives upto the rest of the series.

They need to find a direction and fast as the current state of play isnt good enough.

nerevarine1138

Nope.

I agree that the word "immersion" is overused. But ZO have created a game that strikes an excellent balance between an MMO and the single-player series. The game feels like an Elder Scrolls game, but it has the group content and large world that an MMO needs. People (with very little to do) will always complain about how the game isn't exactly like Skyrim or how they don't like having to actually pay attention to storylines, but those people are the vocal minority. They deserve ridicule and a swift smack upside the head.

Alurria

Waaaaaa waaaa oh sorry what did you say?

Shimond

I've found this to be the most immersive MMO I've played. Yea I had to turn zone off (til I discovered LibAntiSpam) and ignore the botters in dungeons but otherwise it's not all that different from a standard Elder Scrolls experience to me. And for me, that's a pretty big win.

TheFio

Not every MMO is made for every player. Some people prefer wow, and having their hand held, or Eve and sticking their fingers in a meatgrinder, or ESO, and enjoying slipping into another world. Perhaps you should find a game more suited to your 'needs'.

Might I suggest call of duty.

LIQUID741

OP...completely disagree. You can have both. I love that it's a MMO, but when you have Bots destroying the public dungeons it gets old very fast! I have yet to encounter a dungeon without these idiots in there. Once they are gone, then it will not be so bad. I can quest, and be happy that others in there will be doing the same that I will be...hell, I might even make some friends by grouping up!

BrassRazoo

I actually feel like I'm just playing Skyrim or Oblivion and just run into real people every now and then, it's cool.
I do tend to ignore Zone chat though because if I focus too much on that I get depressed.

Marmalade

GL making some friends and grouping up.. I tried my best to group and do quests however the phasing means its impossible. People disappearing, it doesn't recognize if one of your group kills a mob you all have to kill that exact same mob, you cannot complete puzzles as a group. These are all basic things that destroy the grouping aspect of the game for me.

"might I suggest call of duty" its people like you that make the vast majority of other players hate the ES snobs.

I am just saying as someone who as played a lot of mmos I think there are some major issues when it comes to the MM part of this MMO.

Marmalade

BrassRazoo wrote: »

I actually feel like I'm just playing Skyrim or Oblivion and just run into real people every now and then, it's cool.
I do tend to ignore Zone chat though because if I focus too much on that I get depressed.

And this is the whole issue... I dont feel like there is anything at all encouraging us to be social and join with others. Its a bunch of single players never interacting and when you try there are road blocks every step of the way forcing you back to playing alone.

stryderzz

couldn't disagree more i'd like it to be even more immersive but i also don't like the idea of it being hard to group up and do content together, i believe low numbers and selected individuals will make this game amazing when it comes to being able to group during content. (skyrim with friends sounds amazing doesn't it? hmmm )

i think all the people wanting status effects and bars for this and that with a wiffle ball bat are just scared of change, OMG ITS NOT LIKE WOW WAT DO WE DEWWWWWWW ESO Y U NO LIKE WOW OMG OMG OMG I'M PANICKING AND I'M GOING TO DIE W/O A DPS METER AND A STANDARD ROTATION WITH COOLDOWNS OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG MAYBE I HAVE 2 BE COMPETENT AND TIME MY DOTS IN MY HEAD CAUSE THIS GAME IS BASED ON SKILL AND NOT MINDLESSLY CLICKING WHEN AN ADDON SAYS TO OMG OMG OMG WAT DO I DEWWWWW....something along those lines :"P

dagnome

Marmalade wrote: »

GL making some friends and grouping up.. I tried my best to group and do quests however the phasing means its impossible. People disappearing, it doesn't recognize if one of your group kills a mob you all have to kill that exact same mob, you cannot complete puzzles as a group. These are all basic things that destroy the grouping aspect of the game for me.

"might I suggest call of duty" its people like you that make the vast majority of other players hate the ES snobs.

I am just saying as someone who as played a lot of mmos I think there are some major issues when it comes to the MM part of this MMO.

You know, I work in sales and I have customers come in all the time who say "I wont buy a (Insert brand here) because its the worst brand ever" This logic can be applied ot this situation, this style of MMO just simply isnt for you. You are that one in a hundred that just cant handle the direction ZO is going with their MMORPG. You hate the "Brand" of this MMO style so you will spread your hatred like wildfire. For every person who says its a terrible game or this feature is ruining the game I will find you ten people who say the exact opposite. There is plenty of group content out there and coming **Cough** adventure zones **cough**. So many people on these forums are so quick to label this game "bad" or "dying" and the majority of content isn't even released. Come back in 4-6 months and see where the game is at and revise this post.

Anastasia

stryderzz wrote: »

About Immersion is a ....dirty word.

---

i believe low numbers and selected individuals will make this game amazing when it comes to being able to group during content. (skyrim with friends sounds amazing doesn't it? hmmm )

---

I'll take my word-play *** inside Tamriel any day, its just the way I like it, *winks and carries on...!

Supersomething

I am right there with you at the term being overused. I am especially sick of this reasoning being used to defend against any possible options for features that other MMO players may want. Yes its supposed to have a sense of immersion due to the fact that it is an Elder Scrolls game.

However, it is also an MMO and it seems to fail on both accounts to make the two aspects mesh together in any sort of coherent fashion. Grouping is an absolute mess unless you're in a instanced dungeon or you find people in the public group dungeons. Even then it can be broken though, because I have joined groups a number of times where I somehow was placed in a different version of the dungeon from them.

Honestly if they would just fix their phasing debacle which in Zenimax's defense said they would, many of these problems would certainly be made better.

Marmalade

dagnome wrote: »

Marmalade wrote: »

GL making some friends and grouping up.. I tried my best to group and do quests however the phasing means its impossible. People disappearing, it doesn't recognize if one of your group kills a mob you all have to kill that exact same mob, you cannot complete puzzles as a group. These are all basic things that destroy the grouping aspect of the game for me.

"might I suggest call of duty" its people like you that make the vast majority of other players hate the ES snobs.

I am just saying as someone who as played a lot of mmos I think there are some major issues when it comes to the MM part of this MMO.

You know, I work in sales and I have customers come in all the time who say "I wont buy a (Insert brand here) because its the worst brand ever" This logic can be applied ot this situation, this style of MMO just simply isnt for you. You are that one in a hundred that just cant handle the direction ZO is going with their MMORPG. You hate the "Brand" of this MMO style so you will spread your hatred like wildfire. For every person who says its a terrible game or this feature is ruining the game I will find you ten people who say the exact opposite. There is plenty of group content out there and coming **Cough** adventure zones **cough**. So many people on these forums are so quick to label this game "bad" or "dying" and the majority of content isn't even released. Come back in 4-6 months and see where the game is at and revise this post.

You make some good points and maybe you are right, maybe this mmo isnt for me but I argue that minus the pvp this game isnt an mmo. There is no encouragement to group with other players at all. I love many aspects of the game, the crafting, the skill system I think it has done a ton of things right.

But people (like a few above) who jump on the 'every other mmo is useless' bandwagon have caused ESO to reject everything, even the good parts of past mmos.

stryderzz

Anastasia wrote: »

I'll take my word-play *** inside Tamriel any day, its just the way I like it, *winks and carries on...!

/scratches head

Shimond

Marmalade wrote: »

There is no encouragement to group with other players at all.

While it's true there might not be as much as in other games, the Undaunted guys would disagree with you a lot. Also the skull&crossbones POIs.

It isn't just Cyrodiil that pushes towards multiplayer.

stryderzz

Marmalade wrote: »

You make some good points and maybe you are right, maybe this mmo isnt for me but I argue that minus the pvp this game isnt an mmo. There is no encouragement to group with other players at all. I love many aspects of the game, the crafting, the skill system I think it has done a ton of things right.

But people (like a few above) who jump on the 'every other mmo is useless' bandwagon have caused ESO to reject everything, even the good parts of past mmos.

I play this game with my gf, we sync up our XP and use the rings of mara, i lvl'd with her nonstop from lvl 1-50 and had tons of fun, the group content is there its just the phasing aspects that need some work, and i feel like ZOS will address it once things cooldown a bit, we're currently lvling alts because the vet content is so buggy i'd rather do it when they finish fixing it, my point is the games still new just like the other guy said and you need to wait awhille for everything to settle to really make your judgements, in the mean time keep giving feedback and hoping i suppose :"P

Elloa

The Elder Scrolls Online is not the most social game ever, but its still very fun and possible to play with your guildmates or your friends, or with random players you find on the way.

Now I strongly disagree with @Marmalade The Elder Scrolls Online is not a game for every players: For a lot of players it will not be enough MMOish: I think we can all agree with that. And its not a big deal: there is enough very good game on the market to allow each game to go fully in a direction and satisfy one part of the MMO players.
A lot of players here, that want to play ESO are actually very happy and satisfied to play a different MMO that is more immersive, that focus on story content, viceral combat, more intuitive gameplay, interesting quest and a slow progression.
A lot of players will dislike it and that's why they can play something else instead.

That doesn't mean we are fanboys or fangirls blindly defending ESO: that means we are players that are satisfied with the general direction of the game as its the reason while we play!

Marmalade

stryderzz wrote: »

Marmalade wrote: »

You make some good points and maybe you are right, maybe this mmo isnt for me but I argue that minus the pvp this game isnt an mmo. There is no encouragement to group with other players at all. I love many aspects of the game, the crafting, the skill system I think it has done a ton of things right.

But people (like a few above) who jump on the 'every other mmo is useless' bandwagon have caused ESO to reject everything, even the good parts of past mmos.

I play this game with my gf, we sync up our XP and use the rings of mara, i lvl'd with her nonstop from lvl 1-50 and had tons of fun, the group content is there its just the phasing aspects that need some work, and i feel like ZOS will address it once things cooldown a bit, we're currently lvling alts because the vet content is so buggy i'd rather do it when they finish fixing it, my point is the games still new just like the other guy said and you need to wait awhille for everything to settle to really make your judgements, in the mean time keep giving feedback and hoping i suppose :"P

Thats interesting to note and encouraging to here as every attempt to interact and group so far for me has been disastrous. I really enjoy many aspects of this game and hopefully the social side of ESO can be fixed. As long as this happens and most people can sidestep the blinkered TESO fanboys that seem to pop up a lot in these topics I can see many people enjoying the game.

Marmalade

Elloa wrote: »

The Elder Scrolls Online is not the most social game ever, but its still very fun and possible to play with your guildmates or your friends, or with random players you find on the way.

Now I strongly disagree with @Marmalade The Elder Scrolls Online is not a game for every players: For a lot of players it will not be enough MMOish: I think we can all agree with that. And its not a big deal: there is enough very good game on the market to allow each game to go fully in a direction and satisfy one part of the MMO players.
A lot of players here, that want to play ESO are actually very happy and satisfied to play a different MMO that is more immersive, that focus on story content, viceral combat, more intuitive gameplay, interesting quest and a slow progression.
A lot of players will dislike it and that's why they can play something else instead.

That doesn't mean we are fanboys or fangirls blindly defending ESO: that means we are players that are satisfied with the general direction of the game as its the reason while we play!

It isn't people like yourself that defend ESO with a structured and well spoken answer I take issue with. Its the 'go play wow/COD caps lock fools' that annoy me to the core. Ironic that its these exact people in WoW that give it its bad rep...

KerinKor

stryderzz wrote: »

couldn't disagree more i'd like it to be even more immersive but i also don't like the idea of it being hard to group up and do content together, i believe low numbers and selected individuals will make this game amazing when it comes to being able to group during content. (skyrim with friends sounds amazing doesn't it? hmmm )

Sounds terrible.

'Immersive' doesn't work in MMOs, I have to put up with people like you. Given the attitude you went on to display in the rest of your post you're clearly someone I don't want to have to encounter at all.

Of course, it'll never happen, as the small numbers you would need to play with 'friends' would mean the game dies years before.

Dunhilda

It's meant to be Elder Scroll online, only the only thing about elder scroll is the lore, that's about it really.

Anastasia

stryderzz wrote: »

Anastasia wrote: »

I'll take my word-play *** inside Tamriel any day, its just the way I like it, *winks and carries on...!

/scratches head

---

*Laughs...I was speaking in 'say' last week and someone boitched aloud about roleplayers porning it up. I thought that ridiculous tbh esp since I've never really learned to rp that much, was just joking around with a friend nearby. So in this thread I was responding to the title. *Heads off being into geekdom again...

Cry_Wolfe

WoW pvp was incredibly immersive
Coh was the master of immersion
GW world events just make sense....immersive
ESO... seems to be doing it right...

I don't think that what you seem to think Immersion means is actually what it means.

immersion
ɪˈməːʃ(ə)n/Submit
noun
1.
the action of immersing someone or something in a liquid.
"his back was still raw from immersion in the icy Atlantic sea"
2.
deep mental involvement in something.
"a week's immersion in the culinary heritage of Puglia"


A game that is immersive, draws you into the game. It captures your attention and holds you in its grasp, your mental faculties skewed till the game is all you perceive.

Bugs, bots, spam, session crashes, et al are all immersion breaking events.
For some certain types of UI element are also immersion breakers.

Buff/debuff visibility is not an immersion breaker.
Groupage systems and phasing are developer system-design choices.
Nameplates I could class as an aesthetic design choice, but I rather suspect it was a system choice with a massive nod to user and server bandwidth requirements.

Thechemicals

While i agree with the OP, i think his approach could have been better. Immersion and things that can degrade it is not a stupid comment made by players who are obsessed with rpg. All grand scale videos games have immersion with cinematics,story, and items that have flavor text/descriptions. This is because because the majority of the population wants immersion in media, not utility.

Elder scrolls is an immersive role playing game since its creation until now. The elder scrolls online game is designed to attract that fanbase which is a large sum of revenue. The Elder scrolls is an immersive game offering players a chance to multiplay with others in that core setting via mmo. Chew on that for a while and if it tastes bad, move on to another game.

Marmalade

Thechemicals wrote: »

While i agree with the OP, i think his approach could have been better. Immersion and things that can degrade it is not a stupid comment made by players who are obsessed with rpg. All grand scale videos games have immersion with cinematics,story, and items that have flavor text/descriptions. This is because because the majority of the population wants immersion in media, not utility.

Elder scrolls is an immersive role playing game since its creation until now. The elder scrolls online game is designed to attract that fanbase which is a large sum of revenue. The Elder scrolls is an immersive game offering players a chance to multiplay with others in that core setting via mmo. Chew on that for a while and if it tastes bad, move on to another game.

Sorry English isn't my 1st language and I may not have been clear in my wording. You make very valid points and I agree with the majority of what you say. The major issue I see is that RPG players wont commit to a game for 5 years + playing everyday like some MMO player. Thus surely ESO has a limited existance if it doesnt appeal to MMO players..?

FezzikVizzini

To OP. You got exactly the response I would expect from the "immersive" crowd.

Yeah, it's immersive. I mean, you run around as the special one, doing exactly the same thing as all the other special ones. Chat full of spammers. Bots everywhere. Hardly any content available to do in a group - group dungeons being the only thing you can do. Any other content ? Well, yeah, I immerse myself that I am sneaking into a dungeon, doing a quest or whatever. Then, while I am sneaking a crowd of other special ones come rushing in, zerg the boss, and then do pushups waiting for it to respawn.

This game is supposed to appeal to both ES single players AS WELL as to mmo players. It was expressly designed to do just that. But of course, any suggestion people make such as OPTIONAL name tags, OPTIONAL ui changes or whatever will receive the cries of "ruins my immersion".

stylernaku

This game, it seems to me, has had more unjustified negativity, which when you really get down to it is unjustified, than I have ever witnessed. I say that after experiencing a fair few mmorpg's and just well any recent games in general really.

The problems this game suffers from mostly, are it's players. It's almost like a global warming effect when you look at it.

The maintenance time, reduced or bugged spawn timers, bots, bank errors, and most other issues, have come about due to players. They truly have.

1. Bots, people buying currency by the butt load and increasing demand to cut corners and power build. Bots only appear AFTER an order for currency has been placed not before. Did you know that? They don't create bots to get stock of gold before hand, they do it per order. Research it on Google it, it doesn't take long. This is so they don’t over pay the botters wages. Proper dodgy little money maker business from Korea mostly where most mmorg’s are born. Certainly more than we will ever have in the west.

2. The bank bugs were an off shoot of trying to combat duping. People were doing it in beta and the dev's didn't vocalise the issue until they really had to as once you state the devil in does indeed exist people will go looking to find him so to speak. If that analogy escapes you it means once people know there is an exploit they will do their best to find it.

3. The maintenance time is mostly to stop exploits, bots, scammers, and what ever else, as well as trying to fit in bug squashing for quests.

So the next time you complain about a quest that hasn't been fixed yet, ask yourself why that is so.

To beat you to the punch in "they should have pre emptied this" well how exactly would you prompt so many exploiters and bots as I think this mmorpg has had massive appeal thanks to the incredible success of Skyrim, you have to realise this was even bigger than SWTOR and that's quite an achievement when you think about it.

People just need to think more before prodding that keyboard on here. A futile hope of mine I know.

Marmalade

stylernaku wrote: »

This game, it seems to me, has had more unjustified negativity, which when you really get down to it is unjustified, than I have ever witnessed. I say that after experiencing a fair few mmorpg's and just well any recent games in general really.

The problems this game suffers from mostly, are it's players. It's almost like a global warming effect when you look at it.

The maintenance time, reduced or bugged spawn timers, bots, bank errors, and most other issues, have come about due to players. They truly have.

1. Bots, people buying currency by the butt load and increasing demand to cut corners and power build. Bots only appear AFTER an order for currency has been placed not before. Did you know that? They don't create bots to get stock of gold before hand, they do it per order. Research it on Google it, it doesn't take long. This is so they don’t over pay the botters wages. Proper dodgy little money maker business from Korea mostly where most mmorg’s are born. Certainly more than we will ever have in the west.

2. The bank bugs were an off shoot of trying to combat duping. People were doing it in beta and the dev's didn't vocalise the issue until they really had to as once you state the devil in does indeed exist people will go looking to find him so to speak. If that analogy escapes you it means once people know there is an exploit they will do their best to find it.

3. The maintenance time is mostly to stop exploits, bots, scammers, and what ever else, as well as trying to fit in bug squashing for quests.

So the next time you complain about a quest that hasn't been fixed yet, ask yourself why that is so.

To beat you to the punch in "they should have pre emptied this" well how exactly would you prompt so many exploiters and bots as I think this mmorpg has had massive appeal thanks to the incredible success of Skyrim, you have to realise this was even bigger than SWTOR and that's quite an achievement when you think about it.

People just need to think more before prodding that keyboard on here. A futile hope of mine I know.

Sorry I fail to see how your response has anything relative to this discussion. I haven't ever said Zenimax are doing a bad job at dealing with the errors. Infact I think they had a very successful launch and have handled updating bugs etc very well.

Melian

Marmalade wrote: »

Let me ask you this what what ruins your gameplay immersion more the option to turn on and off nameplates or 300 gold farmers camping a boss. Constant crashes that take you to login screens. Gold spammers in chat 24/

So, you think nameplates would stop boss camping and gold spamming somehow? Or maybe you just think a false dichotomy is a good argument...

Marmalade

Melian wrote: »

Marmalade wrote: »

Let me ask you this what what ruins your gameplay immersion more the option to turn on and off nameplates or 300 gold farmers camping a boss. Constant crashes that take you to login screens. Gold spammers in chat 24/

So, you think nameplates would stop boss camping and gold spamming somehow? Or maybe you just think a false dichotomy is a good argument...

No.. I am saying that the argument that nameplates would ruin immersion is tiresome when there are boss campers, gold spammers etc that ruin immersion more.. I have no idea what 'dichotomy' means sorry.