Ban Gold Buyers

GreySix

ijRoberts wrote: »

gunplummer wrote: »

I have given friends gold for all kinds of things such as helping craft/collect something or help in a tough dungeon which with help includes no tangible item in exchange for gold.

I might be misunderstanding, but how is giving your friend gold helping them with a tough dungeon?

I've given gold to my wife for her character, when she's short. Though at most, it's been around 300 GP.

Tarwin

I have a hard time believing they are banning buyers or ever will. I think they would be the first game in history to do that.

I still don't know why people need to buy gold, but maybe I'm playing the game with the wrong attitude

gunplummer

ijRoberts wrote: »

I might be misunderstanding, but how is giving your friend gold helping them with a tough dungeon?

Over the weekend I was asked by one of my guild leaders to help a couple of low level guild mates in a low level dungeon. Since I was over 6 levels above the best I can hope for is a few scrapes of leather/hide or what I find in crates. They offered additional gold to make it worth my wild to help them. While this is a nice gesture taking gold only for services rendered could be considered gold buying because no item was exchanged in the logs.

Mablung

It is a player driven economy. Meaning that many transactions take place via trade or email. Some gold for items and other not. How would you investigate this? There is no logical way, scratch that, reasonable method to "catch" someone buying gold.

Second, you are cutting out your own profits. Someone who purchased the game and subsequently pays a monthly fee is essentially paying your salary. This will never happen on a large scale for that reason alone.

The one likely solution would be to wipe gold from suspect accounts that sell. It would take a some coding to monitor accounts that exceed x limit, investigate and then determine whether it is wipe worthy. But even that opens up an entire can of worms a new MMO does not want to open.

cliveklgb14_ESO

There is only one reason to defend gold buyers. You are one yourself.

cliveklgb14_ESO

deathly809_ESO wrote: »

But then they would have to find the actual accounts that sell the gold. The people screaming in chat are not the ones who trade the gold. Some other account is that doesn't give off any hints that they are a gold seller.

Actually not that hard to link bots and spammers back to seller accounts. Banning the buyers won't really hurt this process.

cliveklgb14_ESO

Natjur wrote: »

Account A spams selling gold
Account Z want to buy gold
Account C,D and E each sent account Z 10,000 gold

Account A is banned for spamming 'gold for sale'

How do you ban account Z (the buyer) and C, D and E (the sellers)?

The seller has to get the gold from somewhere. The bots and accounts farming gold are not exactly difficult to trace. You can link their gold transactions to the seller, and thus the buyer also.

There is a data trail to ban buyers legitimately.

crush83

Two points.

1) If ZOS made it impossible to miss that they will ban anyone purchasing gold with real money, then I think that would discourage a decent portion of players who might consider this just a hush hush thing that they can get away with. Put a huge, glaring banner on the launcher that no one is going to miss. Let them know that buying gold is not allowed.

2) Tracking gold buying isn't as simple as flagging large transfers. Gold sellers are clever. They will:

1. Transfer small portions at a time with multiple accounts.
2. Purchase worthless items from the player to make it seem like a legit transaction.
3. Use completely unrelated accounts for the gold seller spam.

I'm sure there are other tactics too.

KerinKor

deathly809_ESO wrote: »

They probably already do.

I asked them exactly that, do you, and they refused to answer, I take their silence to mean they don't.

OdinOfOHall

I think you guys are either just starting playing your first mmo or have had your heads in the sand for the past 15 years or more.
Look back at ALL the mmo's and every one has had gold sellers/buyers, all have had the same comments on the forums and all have failed to eradicate it.
WOW,EQ,2,3, are/were only some of the biggest to be fair, they still run now and still gold traders sell gold.
My point is, SO WHAT !! Don't buy it,you don't have to, its only a game, it doesn't do that much to the economy of the game as the gold has been earnt or won some how, so its not although they are introducing extra gold that isn't already there.
For instance...
A guildy or mate gives you 10k, 50k or 100k in gold, to "help you out" or "epic equipment" there is no way you would have it if not given it, should you decline it because you haven't earnt it?
To me it amounts to the same thing, its gold you haven't earnt, equipment or supplies, it makes no odds, so why should you be allowed to have it, surely that gives you the advantage over some one that isn't in a big guild or has a generous mate? Isn't that the issue ?
Now, if the game has regulated selling of its own gold and equipment into the game and there are people trying to undercut them, there is an issue, because obviously the revenue from the game, that keeps it going is being taken. But in this instance it isn't because we pay a sub'.
I think It takes many years for enough gold to affect a games economy and just think in a short period of time you will be earning enough to not even worry, yes, some people are making real money, for them it isn't a game but a way of earning a living maybe? I'd rather just enjoy the game and I've played all the games with all this going on and its never made that big a difference to my enjoyment and I still play them on and off.
Anarchy Online hasn't long celebrated a 14 year run and is still going with quite a big following, its always been possible to buy currency, or what ever you want probably, so to think it ruins a game is in my opinion is quite wrong, that why most mmo's have dumped the monthly sub and are selling their own stuff.

My advice, don't worry what's going on unless it affects your enjoyment of the game, spamming is a pain, just block them, Delete the emails and carry on enjoying the game. some people just like to whine !!

This game is so good it will take more than a few gold sellers to trounce it.

Another thought, when you get to level 50 and have gold coming out of your ears, start another toon and DONT give it any of your gold, equipment or supplies from your bank, don't share any thing.... Isn't that the same thing? there is already the in game shared bank, so they want you to level and share, some thing EQ took ages to do because they thought it would ruin the game, it didn't !

F7sus4

So when I'll send 10k money to my fiancee playing with me, I should be banned.

How can you tell she didn't buy it at eBay and I'm not a gold seller? I've done it not once, not even twice, but a numerous times.

Great logic. Brilliant!

GreySix

cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »

There is only one reason to defend gold buyers. You are one yourself.

Not true. Gold sellers would have cause to defend them as well.

Brother_Numsie

This is all well and good, but now the bots are doing this:




So if we report them it looks like we have bought gold off them.

Catches_the_Sun

Throw all the "how are they gonna catch em" thoughts out the window. They aren't banning gold buyers regardless of evidence. Several days ago, somebody was spamming that they're buying Provisioning ingredients. After sending him a sale through COD, he accidentally sent me a tell that was obviously intended for a gold selling company that was giving him problems with his gold deliveries. I screenshotted it & reported it immediately. That person is still in-game as we speak.



Edit: Hard to see on the image....his comment states:

"Hi, I came here cause I placed an order and last 2 time if I didn't come in this chat no one was making my delivery in game" followed by some descriptions of his order, which contained 1 million gold for Ebonheart Pact, US/NA Server.

gunplummer

If this kind of blatant selling is going on I would not expect to see any changes. Well, maybe a micro transaction store so Zos can get in on the lucrative money being spent in/out of game for gold and other items.

Yes, I know everyone likes/dislikes micro transactions for whatever reason, but if I was Zos reading through some of the posts on racial motifs and gold selling prices and demand I would focus on the store before any content. As a previous post stated bots and gold sellers/buyers have been and always will be a part of MMO's.

While I don't encourage the "if you can't beat them join them" mentality, but they are everywhere. I am at the point where it's just not worth worrying about them anymore I play and ignore. If a bot is keeping me from completing a quest I report, move on, then come back later. If you want to spend $200 RL money on racial motifs or on 1 million gold fine, it's not my money and it has very little impact on my game play.

Sure the bots are annoying, the chat spam is getting ridiculous from gold sellers and players, (the flying bots that descend from the sky, loot then fly back up is pretty interesting-got to give credit where credit is due) I buy/sell through my guild store or an npc, i use an e-mail just for this game with no connection to any of my other games or banking information so I have no worries if my account gets spammed or even hacked. I have a cc for online gaming that's not linked to any other account. I have done everything possible to ensure my online pc gaming is peaceful and stress free. If it becomes too much of a pain I will simply dust off the xbox1 and give my money to microsoft.

Mefit

Starnes wrote: »

Can we please start banning the gold buyers?

You can trace their transactions, you can see they received large sums of gold from an account that was banned for gold selling. Follow the path of the gold direct to the buyer and ban them along with the seller.

I fully agree , Goldbuyers are the issue above all .

As long as there are people want something there will be people to sell it too them .
Lazy players are the heart and soul of the RMT business .

Lazy Players buy gold from RMT Sites
Lazy Players buy Bots from RMT Sites
If you ban said players they are less likely to return.

RMT farms through bots 24/7 all year around .
Bot accounts get banned
They buy new accounts with stolen credit cards from Hacked lazy players accounts or from their Profits they made off lazy players .
The Cycle continues on and on .

Play2Win players who would rather buy everything in game instead of working for it are the reason RMT is a multi Billion Dollar industry that has grown Since the earliest forms of Ultima Online and EverQuest days . Its a For Profit Business that makes its money 100% off of weak and lazy players either from them buying Gold/Exploits/Hacks/Bots or their Creditcards from doing so .

Banning the REASON and what makes all this pay at the very Source , the lazy Player who is weak and buys into these TOS breaking Companies .

If RMTs can no longer make money from the game , cannot steal any more accounts , then they move on in bulk while it will never fully die out because realistically there will always be a small few to remain and keep trying and keep making money off the weak .
But atleast Banning the Source of their income will slow it all down and make it less noticeable .

Mefit

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

Snip

I bet he is still playing all pimped out VR10 calling everyone NOobs and cry babies for complaining about the Bots and how if you do not like the spam you should get the spam block addon .

True crime here is because of TOS we cannot post this losers name so we can have us some social justice and embarrass him to the point of having to reroll or start a new account .

Maverick827

a

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

Throw all the "how are they gonna catch em" thoughts out the window. They aren't banning gold buyers regardless of evidence. Several days ago, somebody was spamming that they're buying Provisioning ingredients. After sending him a sale through COD, he accidentally sent me a tell that was obviously intended for a gold selling company that was giving him problems with his gold deliveries. I screenshotted it & reported it immediately. That person is still in-game as we speak.



Edit: Hard to see on the image....his comment states:

"Hi, I came here cause I placed an order and last 2 time if I didn't come in this chat no one was making my delivery in game" followed by some descriptions of his order, which contained 1 million gold for Ebonheart Pact, US/NA Server.

I'd rather we not ban people for saying things without also having transaction logs to back it up. While this is a pretty egregious example, I've seen people banned in the past for making sarcastic comments against gold spammers, like "I prefer to buy my gold at credit-card-thieves.com, it's totally safe!" or something like that. Perhaps it's not the smartest joke to make, but I'd rather have to worry about what I say as little as possible when playing a game.

Mefit wrote: »

Starnes wrote: »

Can we please start banning the gold buyers?

You can trace their transactions, you can see they received large sums of gold from an account that was banned for gold selling. Follow the path of the gold direct to the buyer and ban them along with the seller.

I fully agree , Goldbuyers are the issue above all .

As long as there are people want something there will be people to sell it too them .
Lazy players are the heart and soul of the RMT business .

Lazy Players buy gold from RMT Sites
Lazy Players buy Bots from RMT Sites
If you ban said players they are less likely to return.

RMT farms through bots 24/7 all year around .
Bot accounts get banned
They buy new accounts with stolen credit cards from Hacked lazy players accounts or from their Profits they made off lazy players .
The Cycle continues on and on .

Play2Win players who would rather buy everything in game instead of working for it are the reason RMT is a multi Billion Dollar industry that has grown Since the earliest forms of Ultima Online and EverQuest days . Its a For Profit Business that makes its money 100% off of weak and lazy players either from them buying Gold/Exploits/Hacks/Bots or their Creditcards from doing so .

Banning the REASON and what makes all this pay at the very Source , the lazy Player who is weak and buys into these TOS breaking Companies .

If RMTs can no longer make money from the game , cannot steal any more accounts , then they move on in bulk while it will never fully die out because realistically there will always be a small few to remain and keep trying and keep making money off the weak .
But atleast Banning the Source of their income will slow it all down and make it less noticeable .

I think you take games way too seriously. I mean, I'm against buying gold, but calling the people who do "weak and lazy" feels overzealous considering the topic. You're taking this personally when you shouldn't.

Mefit

Maverick827 wrote: »

Snip

You seem a little over protective of Goldbuyers .

What do you care what they are called ?
Do you go out of your way to address people who name call people who break real life laws too ?

And yes it is just a game and if they stoop so low to break simple laws and rules , who knows what they do in Real life ..........

The guy in the chat should be looked into and at any point after his whisper of coming in contact with said items or amount of Gold should get the Perma Ban Hammer . Period

babylon

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

Throw all the "how are they gonna catch em" thoughts out the window. They aren't banning gold buyers regardless of evidence. Several days ago, somebody was spamming that they're buying Provisioning ingredients. After sending him a sale through COD, he accidentally sent me a tell that was obviously intended for a gold selling company that was giving him problems with his gold deliveries. I screenshotted it & reported it immediately. That person is still in-game as we speak.



Edit: Hard to see on the image....his comment states:

"Hi, I came here cause I placed an order and last 2 time if I didn't come in this chat no one was making my delivery in game" followed by some descriptions of his order, which contained 1 million gold for Ebonheart Pact, US/NA Server.

How can ZOS not be noticing the transfer of 1,000,000 gold?

Natjur

What the hell was he going to use 1,000,000 gold on?
Sure bank upgrades after 200 slots cost 95k but still.... that is insane!

Maverick827

Mefit wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

Snip

You seem a little over protective of Goldbuyers .

No, I really don't. You're just that invested into the issue that any sort of contrasting opinion automatically puts you on the defensive.

What do you care what they are called ?
Do you go out of your way to address people who name call people who break real life laws too ?

I don't care what they are called. You can call them whatever you want. I was just pointing out how it made you look.

And yes it is just a game and if they stoop so low to break simple laws and rules , who knows what they do in Real life ..........

See, this right here is where you start tipping the crazy scale. "Who knows" what gold buyers do in real life? You're all but calling them criminal psychopaths for buying fake gold in a fake world. Something that is a perfectly legitimate thing to do in many other games (and isn't actually illegal to do in this game), mind you. You're simply overreacting and it makes you look bad.

The guy in the chat should be looked into and at any point after his whisper of coming in contact with said items or amount of Gold should get the Perma Ban Hammer . Period

Yes, he should be looked into. And if they do notice a 1,000,000 gold transaction on his account, then he should be banned. I don't think he should be banned for that whisper if no transaction exists, however.

Tipsy

If they discover that someone has bought gold they should reset their amount to 0 gold and strip them of any bank/bag space bought with it.
They deserve to be punished since they support the idea that its ok to mess with the game so they have to put no effort in it.And that its ok that these bots steal everything away from under the nose of normal players,underground farming,...

That needs consequences.And they would do good to send out a strong message and punish goldbuyers to make an example,that anyone who supports the besmirchment of the game won't walk away with it.

Mefit

Maverick827 wrote: »

Mefit wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

Snip

You seem a little over protective of Goldbuyers .

No, I really don't. You're just that invested into the issue that any sort of contrasting opinion automatically puts you on the defensive.

What do you care what they are called ?
Do you go out of your way to address people who name call people who break real life laws too ?

I don't care what they are called. You can call them whatever you want. I was just pointing out how it made you look.

And yes it is just a game and if they stoop so low to break simple laws and rules , who knows what they do in Real life ..........

See, this right here is where you start tipping the crazy scale. "Who knows" what gold buyers do in real life? You're all but calling them criminal psychopaths for buying fake gold in a fake world. Something that is a perfectly legitimate thing to do in many other games (and isn't actually illegal to do in this game), mind you. You're simply overreacting and it makes you look bad.

The guy in the chat should be looked into and at any point after his whisper of coming in contact with said items or amount of Gold should get the Perma Ban Hammer . Period

Yes, he should be looked into. And if they do notice a 1,000,000 gold transaction on his account, then he should be banned. I don't think he should be banned for that whisper if no transaction exists, however.

1 Makes no sense

2 I do not care how it makes me look , do you care how it makes you look defending them ? You act as if they are some Abused Animal without a voice of their own . Let them defend theirselves if they do not like the name calling . Let them come out and say " Mefit I buy Gold and you do not know me" . Until then , it is like slaming my head against a steal wall trying to figure out how me calling them lazy and weak has anything to do with you as a Legit Player .
Know someone who buys gold ?
If not , let it be ....

3 I said "who knows" , I did not say "for sure" .............hard to read I know when you are busy defending.

4 No one said he should be banned for a whisper .............no one lol

Mefit

Tipsy wrote: »

Snip.

Sure that sounds reasonable but it really holds no threat to them . Just next time they will be smarter in how they buy it .

Really this idea would cost more in the long run than just banning the GoldBuyer .
Let them be lazy in another game and ruin its community and economy .

Tipsy

you're right
It ruins the economy,
A few days back it came to my attention that some people are willing to pay 300k for a rare motif like the deadric one...
That same day I got a goldselling mail which I reported,but also mentioned that they sell deadric motifs.(see the link there?)
So there is a high chance I think that these prices bombarded because of goldsellers..
Could be 1 possible example of how they ruin the economy.
And perhaps they even hope prices become so ridiculously high more people will give in to buying gold.
so its very possible that they screw with the economy on purpose.
Therefore ,thank god there are guildstores and no global auction house..

Mefit

Tipsy wrote: »

you're right
It ruins the economy,
A few days back it came to my attention that some people are willing to pay 300k for a rare motif like the deadric one...
That same day I got a goldselling mail which I reported,but also mentioned that they sell deadric motifs.(see the link there?)
So there is a high chance I think that these prices bombarded because of goldsellers..
Could be 1 possible example of how they ruin the economy.
And perhaps they even hope prices become so ridiculously high more people will give in to buying gold.
so its very possible that they screw with the economy on purpose.
Therefore ,thank god there are guildstores and no global auction house..

Goldsellers love to build a economy where you have no choice but to come to them for their services . This is only possible in a community with a large enough group who buys into it .

(EA/Bioware )SWTOR was very Proactive in handling Bots/Goldsellers/ Gold buyers
(SquareEnix) FF11 and FF14 , they ban Goldbuyers in bulk , and give solid numbers of doing so . Literally less bots in FF14 to the point the only reason you know RMT is there is the 1time a day you will get a message or see a spam .

SquareEnix has been the best when handling this issue and have a Zero Tolerance system . They not only Suspend you first and Ban you next . They take your Gold bought against TOS from RMTs from you but the people you gave it too . They take your ingame house as well .
Last Summer SE in the first two months banned a Record amount of Players for hacking and Goldbuying with no remorse .

FF14 still is doing good population wise (Even tho I think the game is boring) and has little RMT activity in the faces of its players .

ESO is a far better game than FF14 , it just needs to be handled the same when it comes to RMT and this game will be great !

Maverick827

You're ovlbviously an unreasonable, perhaps mentally unhealthy person. I'm not going to keep this up for both of our benefits.

babylon

Tipsy wrote: »

So there is a high chance I think that these prices bombarded because of goldsellers..

The prices got high because ZOS went and nerfed the droprates of motifs and recipes to the point no real player can now find them. They did that because of bots. The end result is only the goldsellers and exploiters now have those items for sale.

What they should've done instead was make them bind to account on pickup, then returned the droprate back to pre-nerf state, so players of the game can actually play the game without being held to ransom by exploiters and goldsellers.

Mefit

Maverick827 wrote: »

You're ovlbviously an unreasonable, perhaps mentally unhealthy person. I'm not going to keep this up for both of our benefits.

Earlier you said I was bad for calling Goldbuyers Weak and Lazy , but you are soo much more reasonable for calling me a "Mentally Unhealthy Person" .
I guess I struck a nerve when I called Goldbuyers "Weak and Lazy" .

Just to point out when I called Goldbuyers "Weak and Lazy" , it was directed at the Goldbuyers . You attacked me personally with every reply to the matter .