Request to Remove Veteran Bonus in Cyrodiil.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

This isnt TOR wow or any other game it is ESo, and that is how they designed it. Its highly likely that will not change, so either enjoy the game or move on. Not every game is made for just your tastes. And I love PvP too, but Im an elder scrolls fan, and pvp isnt in its DNA

Cydone

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

This isnt TOR wow or any other game it is ESo, and that is how they designed it. Its highly likely that will not change, so either enjoy the game or move on. Not every game is made for just your tastes.

You really can't comprehend what you read, can you? I never said it was ToR or WoW. I am asking for something, that I think would be an AWESOME addition, that those games and games like them DON'T offer. Making ESO better, IMO. And I'm NOT asking for ZOS to make this game to tailor to JUST my tastes. That's like saying that I am asking for PvP to be the ONLY way to level up in this game. And I'm not! I'm asking for an alternative to doing the pve questing.

Some of us, that don't enjoy the pve, actually do enjoy the game you know. I LOVE the combat mechanics in place, I LOVE the crafting in place, I LOVE the PvP that is in place(save for not being able to level solely through pvp at anywhere NEAR an acceptable rate). Asking for something that would IMPROVE the games longevity isn't something that's bad.

Kewljag_66_ESO

tclark1122b14_ESO wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

True level 50's should always smoke you in 1v1s or 1v2s. If you want to be effective, group up or level up.

Then there should be campaigns that are pre-level 50 and campaigns that are 50+ only.

As it is now, the players have already seen to it that there is absolutely no point in going out there anymore unless you're 50+. The number of people I see out in my home campaign has already dropped off to the point where we aren't and won't be really contesting anything any time soon and have dropped from Full to Medium in the last week.

The people who are saying people should just leave and go level up don't understand that people will instead just leave period.

You are looking at campaigns in the wrong way, almost as if it was a large arena match that had no purpose. The idea behind a campaign is that its basically never ending, its your lands you need to protect, and accomplish things on the map for bonuses for your alliance. leveling up and becoming stonger is what pushes you so you are stronger there. remember the map never resets, what you do stands until enemies take action to change that. SO with your idea of pre 50 campaigns what ever you did there would not matter once you hit 50 and moved to a max level campaign. It would almost be like you spent all that time making a name for your self in that campaign just to have to leave it once you hit 50... Your basically starting all over now. Also remember your guild is attached to one campaign, how would you play with them or defend the guild keep if they are in a different campaign?

Don't look at a campaign like a match because it is never ending, the idea they are going for is that your campaign is your home and from level 10 you start making a name for your self there and protecting it, then once your max level+ you will never be at a disadvantage

Kolache

Here's some PTS notes fuel for the fire:

You can earn up to Veteran Rank 12 as you continue your adventures in Craglorn.

Cydone

Kolache wrote: »

Here's some PTS notes fuel for the fire:

You can earn up to Veteran Rank 12 as you continue your adventures in Craglorn.

Kill me now! Oh wait, I already unsubbed because of lazy design work like the VR levels and lack of pvp rewards/content.

BabylonRocker

This is more an issue of unbalancing of DK/Vamp rather than the VR Ranks tbh

JexTex

The veteran rank system is a totally joke and poorly thought out...it makes pvp balance a joke...it makes getting into the game harder esp after several months....having to quests and do other zones is a joke...they really dnt have aclue wtf they are doing lol....

if this stuff isn't sorted this game is going to have a poor population for pvp..

Semel

Saw a rank 5 veteran dragonknight/vampire Solo 12 people BY HIMSELF

I think you dont actually know what you are talking about. Most likely they guy that killed 12 players at once was exploiter. Dragonknight/vampire combination (+ armor set+ stage 4 vampire cost reduction) allows you to exploit unintended ultimate cost reduction mechanic and abuse broken abilities like bat swarm and mist form making you essentially almost immortal in melee range.

Cydone

JexTex wrote: »

The veteran rank system is a totally joke and poorly thought out...it makes pvp balance a joke...it makes getting into the game harder esp after several months....having to quests and do other zones is a joke...they really dnt have aclue wtf they are doing lol....

if this stuff isn't sorted this game is going to have a poor population for pvp..

Yeah how dare those ppl that have been playing that long have an advantage over those that just started! lulz

Utherix

Cydone wrote: »

JexTex wrote: »

The veteran rank system is a totally joke and poorly thought out...it makes pvp balance a joke...it makes getting into the game harder esp after several months....having to quests and do other zones is a joke...they really dnt have aclue wtf they are doing lol....

if this stuff isn't sorted this game is going to have a poor population for pvp..

Yeah how dare those ppl that have been playing that long have an advantage over those that just started! lulz

There's a difference between an advantage and an I-win button.

Have you ever heard of First Person Shooters? I could download and install a FPS I have never played before and be better than 90% of other people playing. That's because of this concept called "skill".

Have you ever heard of skill? Skill is when you dedicate time and concentration to an activity and become good at it. You should try it some time.

Mange

Am I the only one confused as to what "Veteran Bonus" he is referring to? It sounds like the OP is under the impression that VRs get some sort of boost other than potential gear slightly scaled up from stuff you can get at almost any level.

Lets be clear as well, AoC failed because Funcom.

Samadhi

Utherix wrote: »

...
Have you ever heard of skill? Skill is when you dedicate time and concentration to an activity and become good at it. You should try it some time.

That's referred to as experience.
Experience is something that players who have played longer tend to have more of than newcomers.

ruzlb16_ESO

Alestair wrote: »

As I see, Veteran levels will demolish PVP AKA the GAME... I Saw a rank 5 veteran dragonknight/vampire Solo 12 people BY HIMSELF..

You really didn't.
Almost no AOE abilities do more than 200 damage per tick (including the vamp ulti), which should be about 1/10th of your health. his single-target abilities may do upto 500 or so, which is 1/3rd to 1/4 of your health, with the downside of being single target. And he'll have around 2k health himself, and is vulnerable to a whole bunch of counters. If you failed to kill him with 12 people, either you were all AFK or else he wasn't actually on his own; remember that stealth can make any class invisible. Pocket healers can hide 10 feet from you. You may well have been caught in 2-3 called AOEs at the same time, and only seen the one melee-ranged guy who has charged into you. You were, in fact, being tanked while considerable more DPSes gunned you down from afar - this is a tactic that we've used on before as well.
Often, these vamp-ulti videos where we see someone 'solo' a keep or a zerg fail to note that the vamp is in a group of 10-20 other VR players. The vamp is the most visible, because he charges into the centre to get the benefit of his ultimate spam; but that ulti spam is not what is killing you alone. Check your combat log with a mod and you'll see 9-10 damage sources just before you die. You're not being soloed. You're being out-played by another group. So out-played, you didn't even spot half of them.
There's barely any 1-shot abilities in the game, and most of those are very situational (some of them work only on vampires, for example). I'm a vet 3 sorc, and have been killed by as few as 2 sub-50 players who have gotten the drop on me; VR levels do not make you invincible. VR gear is significantly better than non-VR gear, but not to the point where it makes us unkillable either.

Jnaathra

What they are trying to say is - No lifers that have hundreds of hours to pour into this game should always win!

Logic.

Developers that follow this sorta logic quickly find themselves with an empty game. This kinda thinking worked 10 years ago, it does not work today. There are to many alternatives on the market.

There is a difference between skill and having unlimited time to sit in front of a screen.

The difference between V1 and V10 is day and night. The power gain and difference is to drastic. Having an advantage is one thing, however being immortal is another.

Part of this is bad design and scaling the other part is broken skills and classes. There are numerous fixes and balance issues to look at here.

Jnaathra

I'm going to actually respond to the OP question and pose an idea. Instead of trolling the thread like 90% of the other people here.

I would not limit AOE to a set number of targets.

I would make AOE damage scale downward based on the number of targets in the area. If there are say (example) 10 targets, you would hit for full damage. If there are more than 10 targets your damage would begin to scale down. If there are 20 targets (example) you are hitting them all still, but for half damage.

This seems like the best middle ground compromise. People say that AOE is not OP, the thing is... People still use the same AOE tactics in 1v1 fights. The same person spamming Pulsar in 10 vs 50 fights is spamming the same stupid skills in 1v1 fights. The AOE skills outclass most single target skills in every way. No need to aim, similar cost to single target spell, etc.

Cydone

Utherix wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

JexTex wrote: »

The veteran rank system is a totally joke and poorly thought out...it makes pvp balance a joke...it makes getting into the game harder esp after several months....having to quests and do other zones is a joke...they really dnt have aclue wtf they are doing lol....

if this stuff isn't sorted this game is going to have a poor population for pvp..

Yeah how dare those ppl that have been playing that long have an advantage over those that just started! lulz

There's a difference between an advantage and an I-win button.

Have you ever heard of First Person Shooters? I could download and install a FPS I have never played before and be better than 90% of other people playing. That's because of this concept called "skill".

Have you ever heard of skill? Skill is when you dedicate time and concentration to an activity and become good at it. You should try it some time.

LULZ!! I forgot that this game was an FPS, where the only real concept is to have better hand eye coordination than the other guy. Depending on what FPS you play, tactics CAN come into play, but beyond that.....it's really that simple. In MMO's there are a lot of different things at work, far beyond that of an FPS. If I REALLY need to explain those concepts to you, in more detail, then it's more of a "Go back to Call of Duty" type thing, than anything else.

Cydone

Jnaathra wrote: »

I'm going to actually respond to the OP question and pose an idea. Instead of trolling the thread like 90% of the other people here.

I would not limit AOE to a set number of targets.

I would make AOE damage scale downward based on the number of targets in the area. If there are say (example) 10 targets, you would hit for full damage. If there are more than 10 targets your damage would begin to scale down. If there are 20 targets (example) you are hitting them all still, but for half damage.

This seems like the best middle ground compromise. People say that AOE is not OP, the thing is... People still use the same AOE tactics in 1v1 fights. The same person spamming Pulsar in 10 vs 50 fights is spamming the same stupid skills in 1v1 fights. The AOE skills outclass most single target skills in every way. No need to aim, similar cost to single target spell, etc.

I like that, but I would rather have something that's a tiny bit more realistic. Not poo pooing on your idea, but I would rather have a "blast radius" put in. Where the closest person(s) to where the AoE went off would receive the full brunt of the damage and then it would dissipate the farther away you are from the point in which the AoE was dropped.

ruzlb16_ESO

Jnaathra wrote: »

I'm going to actually respond to the OP question and pose an idea. Instead of trolling the thread like 90% of the other people here.

I would not limit AOE to a set number of targets.

I would make AOE damage scale downward based on the number of targets in the area. If there are say (example) 10 targets, you would hit for full damage. If there are more than 10 targets your damage would begin to scale down. If there are 20 targets (example) you are hitting them all still, but for half damage.

This seems like the best middle ground compromise. People say that AOE is not OP, the thing is... People still use the same AOE tactics in 1v1 fights. The same person spamming Pulsar in 10 vs 50 fights is spamming the same stupid skills in 1v1 fights. The AOE skills outclass most single target skills in every way. No need to aim, similar cost to single target spell, etc.

I toyed with this idea for a few minutes myself last night, but it doesn't actually offer a solution - it's basically the same problem as a cap, in that it rewards ball-zerging and punishes small group play. If you have a damage cap of 10X, and spread that over 100 people, you end up causing 1/10th of the damage from the AoE to each person. In he case of most AOEs, that'd be a damage output of 20... about 1% of health.

As a result, you are encouraging mass-stacking in GW2 style, which is exactly the argument against AOE caps. So it's not actually a compromise - different method, but same result I'm afraid.

dietlime

What this thread is basically saying is "skip all the dialogue or *** you, no PvP for you".

dietlime

How about they just scale everyone like they suggested heavily before I bought the game.

This is worse than no scaling at all, because in addition to being at a complete disadvantage when fighting levels 50-100 my level 49 is also stripped of any advantage it previously could have had over levels 1-49.

Alestair

So, After a long period of time, NOT defending myself for all this time because Maybe I had figured you all were right about this and I was wrong...but after seein'g this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq2-Zl1PETM I have thought about it for awhile now, and realized I am right and its not a stupid idea and While I got so many LOL's to my profile because of this post.... I LOL at anyone who LOL'ed me who also complained about this type of Play..

Dyeshan

Level up and quit QQ...stay out of pvp if it makes umad.
What would be unfair is if those people that spent all this time leveling up to become stronger had no advantage. why would anyone level past 10 then...?

leewells

Alestair wrote: »

As I see, Veteran levels will demolish PVP AKA the GAME... I Saw a rank 5 veteran dragonknight/vampire Solo 12 people BY HIMSELF.. and all ZEN is focusing on is fixing minor things, and well some important Quests when the balancing should be the issue here.. Look what happened to Age of Conan, One class was OP, it got nerfed but made another OP and then that one got nerfed and made the other OP, and once it came around back to the first one that got nerfed, nerfed again and still made the other OP so it was going in circles and thus, THAT is why Age of Conan Failed... Because of Classes not being balanced and in this case "Skills" not being balanced.. Im tired of being in a 20 sized group getting killed by a very small group of maybe 8 people who are Veteran 2-5 and has nothing to do with their player skill, its all about the skills they have and the bonus's.. I enjoyed the betas, I pre ordered, played on the 30th and ive been playing EVERYDAY since then and im now a veteran rank 1 and i don't want to have to get to Veteran rank 5 or higher just to be able to own someone because of my high bonus's and GEAR.... So ill say it once.. Veteran levels will destroy this game.... You may say "Wait til everyone is veteran and then it will be fair game" No, it won't, not to the people who come to the game later on, because later on in za future the majority are going to be VR 5-10 and those who are below 49 or even below 40 will not stand a chance at all, of course they may get the last shot off on a high ranking vet but that person still isn't going to feel great because he had help.... REMOVE Veteran bonus's to PVP

So what you are saying is, you don't want to give anyone in PVP any incentive to level their character? So tell me, why are you playing an MMO in the first place and not BF4 or COD?

nez

Alestair wrote: »

VETERAN BONUS IN CYRODIIL

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

Xaei

Sykotik_ESO wrote: »

Just lol @ this post.

Go do some work and get your veteran ranks yourself. They are meant to make you stronger, there may as well not be a single level in the game based off your thought process.

This is like saying true 80s in gw2 ruined PvP for the not true 80s...

So navy seals shouldn't be allowed to use their more advanced training and weapons in war against terrorists because its unbalanced and unfair? Ya that makes sense.

Its more of an argument of choice. The game was advertised as 'play how you want' with them giving numerous examples like the 'I want to PvE on Monday, then PvP on Tuesday' blog/post.

Yet purely doing PvP from level 10 up is really not a viable option because you'l be at a massive disadvantage to the higher ups.

But @OP, are you sure that isn't just that DK spamming infinite Bat Swarm? Because that's not a veteran thing, its a complete oversight of skill balancing on Zenimax's part and something they are fixing. Meanwhile noobs abuse it to heck, thinking they're all cool and awesome.

(Yes, I actually will use noob here)

LadyChaos

I commented before veteran status, and I still feel the same way after experiencing VR Cyrodiil... people upset with vets are trying to solo them (bugged skills aside). People upset about siege not hurting them, are overlooking other factors IMO.

I get hurt by siege, just like my companions. I am just smarter and panic less about how to manage my magica, stamina and defensive abilities vs them, not to mention I have a ton more passive abilities I didn't have 30 levels ago.

I am in no way invulnerable to siege without heals and defenses... if it gets different at VR10 I promise to let you know.. but my opinion hasn't changed having played a couple VR levels in Cyrodiil.

Cydone

LadyChaos wrote: »

I commented before veteran status, and I still feel the same way after experiencing VR Cyrodiil... people upset with vets are trying to solo them (bugged skills aside). People upset about siege not hurting them, are overlooking other factors IMO.

I get hurt by siege, just like my companions. I am just smarter and panic less about how to manage my magica, stamina and defensive abilities vs them, not to mention I have a ton more passive abilities I didn't have 30 levels ago.

I am in no way invulnerable to siege without heals and defenses... if it gets different at VR10 I promise to let you know.. but my opinion hasn't changed having played a couple VR levels in Cyrodiil.

Wow, I actually agree with you on something. Imagine that. lol

LadyChaos

Cydone wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

I commented before veteran status, and I still feel the same way after experiencing VR Cyrodiil... people upset with vets are trying to solo them (bugged skills aside). People upset about siege not hurting them, are overlooking other factors IMO.

I get hurt by siege, just like my companions. I am just smarter and panic less about how to manage my magica, stamina and defensive abilities vs them, not to mention I have a ton more passive abilities I didn't have 30 levels ago.

I am in no way invulnerable to siege without heals and defenses... if it gets different at VR10 I promise to let you know.. but my opinion hasn't changed having played a couple VR levels in Cyrodiil.

Wow, I actually agree with you on something. Imagine that. lol

stars align.. blood overflows rivers everywhere...

TheGrandAlliance

Cydone wrote: »

Ok, so I was right. You want them to change the pvp mechanics in order to better suit you. That's strangely like something.....OH YEAH, entitlement. Please tell me, how are they(ZOS) going to achieve #2 on your list without it affecting player vs player damage? And to #1 on your post, how would this help the current state of pvp, when there is barely ANYONE in the campaigns as it is right now? You want to further segregate the population in order to suit your needs?? Seems that would kill pvp faster than the current state of affairs because the population in these now segregated servers would be MUCH less than what we have now.

1: There are plenty of people in PVP. Most of them left thanks to VR10 griefing.
2: By changing damage calucations used for NPCs when they are hit. Works in other elder scroll games (difficutly slider) it can in a different way here. That way a single VR10 cannot steam roll a map.


I am trying to make the game realistic and competitive. Allowing VR10's to AP farm non vets is the ONLY government subsidy here Mr. Republican. IF you want a game be not /easymode for vets then you need to have proper balance. PvP combat should be won on skill... not "who has the best gear".

Cydone

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

Ok, so I was right. You want them to change the pvp mechanics in order to better suit you. That's strangely like something.....OH YEAH, entitlement. Please tell me, how are they(ZOS) going to achieve #2 on your list without it affecting player vs player damage? And to #1 on your post, how would this help the current state of pvp, when there is barely ANYONE in the campaigns as it is right now? You want to further segregate the population in order to suit your needs?? Seems that would kill pvp faster than the current state of affairs because the population in these now segregated servers would be MUCH less than what we have now.

1: There are plenty of people in PVP. Most of them left thanks to VR10 griefing.
2: By changing damage calucations used for NPCs when they are hit. Works in other elder scroll games (difficutly slider) it can in a different way here. That way a single VR10 cannot steam roll a map.


I am trying to make the game realistic and competitive. Allowing VR10's to AP farm non vets is the ONLY government subsidy here Mr. Republican. IF you want a game be not /easymode for vets then you need to have proper balance. PvP combat should be won on skill... not "who has the best gear".

A regular VR10 ISN'T the one doing that though. It's the VR's that are abusing the vampire setups that are doing it. It's not a symptom of VR10 by itself you tool! It's a combination of imbalanced skills+weapon line+vamp+Ultimate reduction gear.