Request to Remove Veteran Bonus in Cyrodiil.

Alestair

As I see, Veteran levels will demolish PVP AKA the GAME... I Saw a rank 5 veteran dragonknight/vampire Solo 12 people BY HIMSELF.. and all ZEN is focusing on is fixing minor things, and well some important Quests when the balancing should be the issue here.. Look what happened to Age of Conan, One class was OP, it got nerfed but made another OP and then that one got nerfed and made the other OP, and once it came around back to the first one that got nerfed, nerfed again and still made the other OP so it was going in circles and thus, THAT is why Age of Conan Failed... Because of Classes not being balanced and in this case "Skills" not being balanced.. Im tired of being in a 20 sized group getting killed by a very small group of maybe 8 people who are Veteran 2-5 and has nothing to do with their player skill, its all about the skills they have and the bonus's.. I enjoyed the betas, I pre ordered, played on the 30th and ive been playing EVERYDAY since then and im now a veteran rank 1 and i don't want to have to get to Veteran rank 5 or higher just to be able to own someone because of my high bonus's and GEAR.... So ill say it once.. Veteran levels will destroy this game.... You may say "Wait til everyone is veteran and then it will be fair game" No, it won't, not to the people who come to the game later on, because later on in za future the majority are going to be VR 5-10 and those who are below 49 or even below 40 will not stand a chance at all, of course they may get the last shot off on a high ranking vet but that person still isn't going to feel great because he had help.... REMOVE Veteran bonus's to PVP

Zubba

I just wish to say that I believe that Age of Conan failed for other reasons. That reason being it was advertised before release as a hardcore open world pvp mmo. It never was, and after each patch they restricted pvp more and more. And changed it more towards WOW, wich is doing much better.

Zargorius

Strange, the other day me and my Lady, both level 11 almost managed to kill a VR2 sorceror before he Bolt Escaped into Oblivion I believe...guess either we got really lucky or he was really terrible

Sykotik_ESO

Just lol @ this post.

Go do some work and get your veteran ranks yourself. They are meant to make you stronger, there may as well not be a single level in the game based off your thought process.

This is like saying true 80s in gw2 ruined PvP for the not true 80s...

So navy seals shouldn't be allowed to use their more advanced training and weapons in war against terrorists because its unbalanced and unfair? Ya that makes sense.

Reavan

So you do not want any gear progression what so ever and most people to be on the same leveling field.
GW2 over there mate.
Sorry but if you can't put the time in to level like everyone else then you should die in a fire much like you are complaining about.
If PVE is beneath you then you have to slog it the hard way.
I enjoy PVP the most, it is my thing always has been but I do not have this phobia of PVE like it is evil or some weird BS that delinquents like you view it as these days.

I am glad ESO has a progression system and I am liking the idea of having one gear set for all aspects of the game no PVP gear and PVE gear.

In any other game you would not even be able to damage a player who is so much higher leveled and he would one shot you with a basic attack.
Boosting you up makes you have an impact in numbers however against a smaller higher level force you will have to fear it especially if it is organised.

Level up or continue to be fodder on the field your choice.

LadyChaos

veterans are supposed to have the advantage, Cyrodill SHOULD be dominated by the veterans.

It is what makes someone who has put hundreds of hours more into the game have an advantage over someone with significantly less.

IMO this is the same as saying a lvl 50 should not be able to kill a lvl 10 in their sleep, or a lvl 20 for that matter etc... the closer you get to the same rank the closer the fight should be. Unless you are close to that vet rank it is not a fair comparison to call for a nerf as you haven't come close yet to what it took to be there.

IMO too many PvPers just run out into the wild thinking its safe to get from point A to point B... it's a little loser to EVE IMO as the guys in the trees and fields along the way can significantly sway the battles by having more points, working together, and being sneaky/smarter at the guerrilla warfare.

It is not safe to go from one point to another full throttle. A smaller better equipped and organized group can unsettle a larger less organized or equipped/point group.

Alestair

Reavan wrote: »

So you do not want any gear progression what so ever and most people to be on the same leveling field.
GW2 over there mate.
Sorry but if you can't put the time in to level like everyone else then you should die in a fire much like you are complaining about.
If PVE is beneath you then you have to slog it the hard way.
I enjoy PVP the most, it is my thing always has been but I do not have this phobia of PVE like it is evil or some weird BS that delinquents like you view it as these days.

I am glad ESO has a progression system and I am liking the idea of having one gear set for all aspects of the game no PVP gear and PVE gear.

In any other game you would not even be able to damage a player who is so much higher leveled and he would one shot you with a basic attack.
Boosting you up makes you have an impact in numbers however against a smaller higher level force you will have to fear it especially if it is organised.

Level up or continue to be fodder on the field your choice.

"GW2 over there mate." Never played GW2....Never played WoW...The only mmo's ive ever played was EQ,EQ2,SWG,AoC,DaoC,SW,Eve. My point is.... throw in a level 10 against a Vet 10 in a 1v1..who will win? of course, Cyrodiil is ment for large scale pvp of course, not skirmish's, but hey, skirmish's do happen every so often.. and I am leveling...

well not just yet because molag bal refuses to die at 0% Health, but its nice that he bows down to me.

Supersomething

PvP was designed for max level or in this case VR's. Punishing players for reaching or nearly reaching level cap and having the stats that go along with it is a fantastic way to discourage anyone with bothering to enter PvP who is max level, and inevitably cuts a chunk of end game content off of the game.

So really, just don't fight higher level characters, because if this was an open world PvP scenario in just about any other MMO you would be dead there as well. If you do fight them make sure you have back up, because unless they are absolutely terrible at pvp you're probably going to need help.

Reavan

Alestair wrote: »

Reavan wrote: »

So you do not want any gear progression what so ever and most people to be on the same leveling field.
GW2 over there mate.
Sorry but if you can't put the time in to level like everyone else then you should die in a fire much like you are complaining about.
If PVE is beneath you then you have to slog it the hard way.
I enjoy PVP the most, it is my thing always has been but I do not have this phobia of PVE like it is evil or some weird BS that delinquents like you view it as these days.

I am glad ESO has a progression system and I am liking the idea of having one gear set for all aspects of the game no PVP gear and PVE gear.

In any other game you would not even be able to damage a player who is so much higher leveled and he would one shot you with a basic attack.
Boosting you up makes you have an impact in numbers however against a smaller higher level force you will have to fear it especially if it is organised.

Level up or continue to be fodder on the field your choice.

"GW2 over there mate." Never played GW2....Never played WoW...The only mmo's ive ever played was EQ,EQ2,SWG,AoC,DaoC,SW,Eve. My point is.... throw in a level 10 against a Vet 10 in a 1v1..who will win? of course, Cyrodiil is ment for large scale pvp of course, not skirmish's, but hey, skirmish's do happen every so often.. and I am leveling...

well not just yet because molag bal refuses to die at 0% Health, but its nice that he bows down to me.

Maybe you should then.

crowfl56

Griefers will always rule in any pvp portion of a game. VR is just another way for the pro pvp player to grief. IMO, no player should be able to solo more that 2 or 3 other players. PVP is great and exciting, until you run into people that take advantage of a game system tailored to the griefer.

Sykotik_ESO

Lol and its still the age of entitleds who don't like to work for anything in any aspect of life

LilMcGinley

I hope under levels keep experiencing the end-game way before they are suppose to.. the AP is too easy sometimes...

crowfl56 wrote: »

Griefers will always rule in any pvp portion of a game. VR is just another way for the pro pvp player to grief. IMO, no player should be able to solo more that 2 or 3 other players. PVP is great and exciting, until you run into people that take advantage of a game system tailored to the griefer.

Wait.. so PLAYING THE GAME is griefing?? Now I've heard everything... I'm sorry I annoyed you with my levels.

orangez0630rwb17_ESO

wow.. this is like telling me I should send a young inexperience 18yr old to fight for my country and expect him to kill a commando of opposing country in a 1v1 fight. ahhaha hilarious...

THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH IN THIS WORLD. WORK FOR IT.

svedric

i can understand the initial post, i'am also a bit sad about this huge increase if you hit the Veteran Ranks. I think also there should be some progression on reaching 50, and also for each veteran rank.

On daoc you had still the bg's for lower levels, and since teso doesn't provide them i think the difference between 10-49 to 50+ should be much smaller than it actually is.

tplink3r1

90% of a MMORPG is the character/gear progression, so no.

driosketch

The bigger problem is they are trying to make PvP accessible to all players. If the Devs wanted a level 10 to be powerless against a v-rank player, there wouldn't be an upscale to their stats in the first place. But Cyrodiil is still a zone geared for veteran ranks. It can still be fun at low levels, but that fun will wane over the next 39 levels as your heavy armor wearing tank gets three-shot killed by NPCs and your dedicated mage is out of magic in three skill uses due to the one size fits all nature of the up scale.

I don't think the solution is for v-ranks to be nerfed. (Actually, someone check the stats because they may actually already get some down scaling in the higher ranks in PvP.) I think they should really separate the two groups. Giving players a sense of progression and leveling the playing field are mutually exclusive, and yet the game is trying to have it both ways. It's a problem that will have to be addressed at a later date, and you should hope the solution will not be to washout the advantage of being a higher rank.

Sykotik_ESO

Separating it defeats the purpose of 1 constantly changing battlefield.

They up level players to give them a chance, but you still are not true 50+. That's why sticking to groups is better or killing people your level. All you get is a stat increase, this sense of people thinking they shouldn't ever work for the ability to be better makes no sense, I don't even get where it comes from since a lot of people work for their accomplishments even in the US.

I have personally seen 2 of my friends in the 20s murder a VR4 by playing smart. It goes both ways. A VR player is not invincible just stronger like they should be, they worked their asses off for it. If someone doesn't want to put time or energy into it then deal with it, but there are BEYOND tons of ways for even a level 10 to help his entire alliance,helping with call outs of enemy movements,repairing, being in the group and damaging even just a little of an enemy helps, watching over keeps, scouting things out while sneaking, any damage what so ever is helpful.

No low level player should be able to mindlessly kill a VR and by segregating lower levels from higher levels they not only lose the chance to play with maybe friends or guildies and also help one single cause but also takes away their ability to learn from seasoned pvpers and find tricks and tips.

merryblues

I aspire to be a strong vet some day so I can thump some nubcakes.. Until then i'll continue to evaluate the battle before running in and waving my staff in the air for people to kill me.

Decimus_Rex

Look what happened to Age of Conan, One class was OP, it got nerfed but made another OP and then that one got nerfed and made the other OP, and once it came around back to the first one that got nerfed, nerfed again and still made the other OP so it was going in circles and thus, THAT is why Age of Conan Failed...

In every MMO I have PvP'ed ( going back to EQ2 and onward ) in, the OP Merry Go Round was there.

The flavor of the month club I like to call it.

You CAN'T fully balance classes in PvP , with ESO even more so I believe

The ability to mix & match amour , weapon skills and ancillary skill lines to your liking will make it far harder to correct

In the coming months it should be an interesting collision of WTF will Zeni. do to keep it some what competitive

Alestair

I seriously think most of you are avoiding the point....Yes, I should level and keep leveling and leveling and leveling, but saying I should be entitled to something and not working for it? Then how the H*ll did I reach Vet 1 ? I worked my Toosh off in one day, from 40 to 50 and yes of course most people can go from 10 to 50 in a day, but saying that Im claiming to be entitled to something? Saying that I should work for it? I already am working for it, Im just seeing the bigger picture here...

Custos91

I see no problem here, I am lvl 25 and some veterans virtually 2 shot me, but I am a healer, our vets have to protect me, If I die, I die by the hands of a hero, who has slaughtered tenthousands of creatures, that semms fair somehow^^
I can't be as strong as him, lvl mean experience and he has more than I have!

driosketch

Sykotik_ESO wrote: »

They up level players to give them a chance, but you still are not true 50+. That's why sticking to groups is better or killing people your level. All you get is a stat increase, this sense of people thinking they shouldn't ever work for the ability to be better makes no sense, I don't even get where it comes from since a lot of people work for their accomplishments even in the US.

But you can see how doing the former while wanting the latter to mean something is a contradiction right? As a level 10 I could run out onto the battlefield nude and it would make no difference to how well I do. (Actually, if that sounds like fun to you and you have a Nord on EP, I know a guild group you might want to look into.) Until 50 you have limited ability to inpact the effectiveness of your build, and in some cases you actually suffer a penalty for it. It's why a few of the players I know have decided not to even enter PvP before level 50.

Sykotik_ESO wrote: »

I have personally seen 2 of my friends in the 20s murder a VR4 by playing smart. It goes both ways. A VR player is not invincible just stronger like they should be, they worked their asses off for it. If someone doesn't want to put time or energy into it then deal with it, but there are BEYOND tons of ways for even a level 10 to help his entire alliance,helping with call outs of enemy movements,repairing, being in the group and damaging even just a little of an enemy helps, watching over keeps, scouting things out while sneaking, any damage what so ever is helpful.

And me and three other players, the highest a V1, have taken out a V10 emperor in 4 on 1. Anecdotal examples don't mean much. It's not like I don't already have a few months of experience in PvP from testing. But player vs. player isn't even my major gripe.

To illustrate, I was in Cropsford two nights ago turning in a quest. An enemy player got the drop on me. I was hit with two storm callings and a crystal shard before I knew what was happening. I won the encounter and killed this player. A little later I stumbled into an NPC guard and after three hits I was dead. Stronger armor or more stats in HP would not have made a difference due to how the upscale works, and the NPC has to deal and withstand the damage it does to be a challenge for veteran players.

That's why I think there should be two types of Cyrodiil. One where the stat/zone balance is across the board, and one where you keep your actual stats. Let players choose either one as long as they understand how it's going to be going in.

orchiddebale

In this general case: HOW much stronger is a level 50 player with each veteran rank? i heard, that veteran ranks just make a minor difference.
so how much stronger is V10 comprared to V1?

Sykotik_ESO

Have two zones where people can choose that's fine but don't force lower levels to PvP in low level version.

The up level thing entirely makes sense because obviously you aren't just going to spawn with ultra awesome gear because what's the point of VR levels then? They did the exact same thing in gw2 and the upleveling worked for what its purpose was, not to make low levels amazing against true 80s or in this case VR players...it does exactly as it is designed to do, allow them to have have a chance, however small it be.

The only problem with the two parts is it would require even more campaigns thus making populations even more spread out and then you would be allowing lower levels to have more campaigns to choose from.and VR players less because I don't see how else you can stop VR players from.hopping in low zones, unless everyone has everything the same which defeats the purpose of an ES game entirely.

drwoody44b14_ESO

Eventually everyone will be VR 10 and im sure you'll find something else to cry about when you die from lack of skill.

Valiant29

Lol, if you don't want to be killed by someone who is higher level then don't play PVP until you are an equal level. The fact is that the PVP was designed for level 50 players (which is why if you are lower than that they increase your stats) It isn't anyone's fault that they put in more time to level up and get better gear than say a level 15 who wants to feel like a hero in a PVP battle. I for one am glad that higher level players have that advantage; a level 10 to 15 shouldn't be able to take down a level 50 without a little smarts and a lot of luck.

Mobius0

Honestly, I think they need to give players below level 50, at least an extra 500 HP than they already have.

It's no fun killing people so easily. I often feel like simply letting them go instead of engaging them, because it's a shallow victory for me. But it's 1 more person that can bring a treb to the battle, so I have to

accursed1

Go grind and lvl up. I had to put my time in to get to vet, it's not something that was just handed to me. You have to do the same.
*edit; @Mobius0 If you didn't notice you have more health, stamina and magika in Cyrodiil.

Mobius0

accursed1 wrote: »

Go grind and lvl up. I had to put my time in to get to vet, it's not something that was just handed to me. You have to do the same.
*edit; @Mobius0 If you didn't notice you have more health, stamina and magika in Cyrodiil.

Of course I know that. But at VR1, I have nearly double that amount of HP, regardless.

awkwarrd

I would hope at some point everyone in Cyradiil would get to veteran rank at some point.

But the EXP rewards you gain in Cyradiil are sooo horribly bad.

All those Veterans you are fighting in Cyradiil.. all leveled up in PVE.
They might not even know how to fight other players properly, they probably have their PVE skills on their actionbar.

Kewljag_66_ESO

This is a very bad idea, it would take away any sense of progression in PVP after max level. people always want to strive to be better and VR ranks do that.

You make it sound as if not everyone has the chance to get VR ranks...... ts a fair field everyone can do it. Even people you join months later. you just have to push threw and do it, same as everyone. Cyrodiil is ment to be the PVP Endgame. Why in the world would you want to take away the endgame progression?.....