Who did you sacrifice? (SPOILER)

reb101

Varen Auilarios

I chose Varen. It seemed to be a sound choice. He was the one that started it all after all.

Hibbou

Varen Auilarios

not sure if I voted correctly, don t remember the names, but the old guy
what is pissing me off, is that I accidentally *********************************************************************************************************************************************************************SPOIL******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

saved manimarco

Enodoc

Varen Auilarios

Hibbou wrote: »

not sure if I voted correctly, don t remember the names, but the old guy
what is pissing me off, is that I accidentally *********************************************************************************************************************************************************************SPOIL******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

saved manimarco

Don't worry about that, he would have managed to escape soon enough anyway. It's another 800 years or so before you can actually kill him.

Vipstaakki

Lyris Titanborn

I decided to sacrifice Lyris. She just seems most amiable to the idea of death.

+ Now she gets to eat drink with her parents in Sovngarde!

guul

Varen Auilarios

Varen, that old man isn't needed anymore.

Tai-Chi

Eccentric wrote: »

The huge manwoman, the old fart, or the black guy.

Varen Auilarios of course!

1. He was one of the main protagonists in the current state of affairs, albeit with hindsight now remorseful and trying to put things right. One could conclude even then that he is self serving to an extent.
2. Lyris and Sai were both puppets in his game and deserved some love and happiness - especially after what they endured on Varen's behalf.
3. Alive or dead, he had the knowledge, means and possibly the ability to pop up again when needed, or rise from the dead. Who knows what those Moth Priests taught him.

Last but not least, it really got up my nose the arrogant and condescending way in which he addressed me as;

"A degenerate or imperfectly developed organ or structure that has little or no utility, but that in an earlier stage of the individual or in preceding evolutionary forms of the organism performed a useful function". Look up the biological definition of 'Vestige'.

Enodoc

Varen Auilarios

Tai-Chi wrote: »

Last but not least, it really got up my nose the arrogant and condescending way in which he addressed me as;

"A degenerate or imperfectly developed organ or structure that has little or no utility, but that in an earlier stage of the individual or in preceding evolutionary forms of the organism performed a useful function". Look up the biological definition of 'Vestige'.

Technically accurate though. You are an imperfect, soulless copy of your original (pre-murdered) self; ie, a remnant of something that was fully functional but now no longer exists.

altemriel

Lyris Titanborn

lyris, she was hot, but screw that

Master_Fluff

The two most recent sacrifices has been the aquarius guy. Can't beat that band aid stick at CP 160. Just improve to gold quality and slap an irresistable damage enchantment on it. That saves plenty sanded rubedo for something else.

carljokl

Varen Auilarios

Varen seems to make the most sense and that statistics seem to bear that out. My reasons are much the same as above.
1) He his old and not having a great quality of life.
2) The plain meld is largely his fault and it seems like cleaning up his mess.
3) Knowing if he lives, he only does so to disappear and fade into history. Seems like metaphorically he dies anyway.
4) It seems like Lyris and Sai love each other and may have a future that gives them something to live for.
5) Demographically the other two are a choice between a woman and person of colour which could seem unfortunate to reduce the number of those.

It feels like the game steers you towards this choice while giving you the option to do otherwise.

Enodoc

Varen Auilarios

carljokl wrote: »

It feels like the game steers you towards this choice while giving you the option to do otherwise.

Yeah, I would agree with you on that one. There are numerous pokes and prods (some of them subtle, some of them considerably not so), that direct you towards Varen being the "correct" or "intended" choice.

ThaLastProdigy

Varen Auilarios

*Spoiler Alert*

You see Varen again when you beat The Orsinium Story...which means he is not truly dead.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

From a purely game play point of view, I'd sacrifice Varen, his staff is the best weapon choice. especially now that you can wait until you're level 50 160+cp to do the quest. Also wait on the last fighter's guild quest until you're level 50. Both the prismatic bow and Varen's staff are pretty nice at level 50 160cp at gold quality.

nyxnox

Varen Auilarios

Varen....how long did he lie to me about who he really is???

Enodoc

Varen Auilarios

ThaLastProdigy wrote: »

*Spoiler Alert*

You see Varen again when you beat The Orsinium Story...which means he is not truly dead.

It doesn't mean that at all. How many quests are there in ESO that have you talking to ghosts? They're all truly dead. And for that matter, so are you, Vestige.

Ghettokid

Varen Auilarios

Varen cause other two were Orcs.
And damn I like Orcs, so I wont kill em.

Lord_Draevan

Varen Auilarios

It would have been hilarious if you could free Mannimarco in that mission, then use him as the sacrifice instead of one of the 3 other Companions

Vipstaakki

Lyris Titanborn

Varen appears in Orsinium whether you decided to sacrifice or not. He tells you that he has traveled to the edge of the world and this is the last time he is going to speak to you before going becoming a part of the Aetherius.

He won't talk about his death if you didn't sacrifice him but instead he tells you how he is old and weary and how his time is coming to an end.

Tai-Chi

Enodoc wrote: »

ThaLastProdigy wrote: »

*Spoiler Alert*

You see Varen again when you beat The Orsinium Story...which means he is not truly dead.

It doesn't mean that at all. How many quests are there in ESO that have you talking to ghosts? They're all truly dead. And for that matter, so are you, Vestige.

Are they all "truly dead"? Or, are they simply entities living in another dimension?

According to Meridia, the Hero (Vestige) is only nearly dead and just beginning life after regaining one's soul. Varen will live on in the Hero's mind. The Ancients were far more knowledgeable about different dimensions and worlds than we are today. Some scientists of today have only recently accepted that the conscious mind, imagination and thoughts are real. They are energy that is tangible. The essence (for want of a better word) of a person lives on.

Please remind me; are the semi-translucent people, that the Hero encounters, ever referred to as "Ghosts"?

altemriel

Lyris Titanborn

she was so *** hot but anyway i sacrificed her, she was hot

Saoirse_Siobhan

Varen Auilarios

Striken7 wrote: »

Varen

He's lived his life.

reb101 wrote: »

I chose Varen. It seemed to be a sound choice. He was the one that started it all after all.

Yep, pretty much. But I do like the guy so I'll spare him on an Alt, see what happens. I don't think I could bring myself to sacrifice Sai though. Sorry Lyris, looks like your up next!

Enodoc

Varen Auilarios

Tai-Chi wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

ThaLastProdigy wrote: »

*Spoiler Alert*

You see Varen again when you beat The Orsinium Story...which means he is not truly dead.

It doesn't mean that at all. How many quests are there in ESO that have you talking to ghosts? They're all truly dead. And for that matter, so are you, Vestige.

Are they all "truly dead"? Or, are they simply entities living in another dimension?

According to Meridia, the Hero (Vestige) is only nearly dead and just beginning life after regaining one's soul. Varen will live on in the Hero's mind. The Ancients were far more knowledgeable about different dimensions and worlds than we are today. Some scientists of today have only recently accepted that the conscious mind, imagination and thoughts are real. They are energy that is tangible. The essence (for want of a better word) of a person lives on.

Please remind me; are the semi-translucent people, that the Hero encounters, ever referred to as "Ghosts"?

Yeah, they are, most obviously the ones in Westtry, as the associated quest is called The Ghosts of Westtry. Ghosts of Glenumbra also indicates that other translucent NPCs are considered Ghosts, specifically referencing the ones at Glenumbra Moors and Cath Bedraud. That book also specifically states what ghosts are: Ghosts are the spirits of people who were once alive as you or I. When they died, they refused to leave.

Besides, Varen directly agrees with you that he's dead, and he says he's moving on to Aetherius. Like all ghosts, his spirit remained on Nirn while there was still something tying him to it, but as soon as that reason for remaining is gone, they move on. (A good example of this in previous games is the Forlorn Watchman in Oblivion; his spirit remained on Nirn until you released it by freeing his body from its shackles in a shipwreck.)

Tai-Chi

Enodoc wrote: »

Tai-Chi wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

ThaLastProdigy wrote: »

*Spoiler Alert*

You see Varen again when you beat The Orsinium Story...which means he is not truly dead.

It doesn't mean that at all. How many quests are there in ESO that have you talking to ghosts? They're all truly dead. And for that matter, so are you, Vestige.

Are they all "truly dead"? Or, are they simply entities living in another dimension?

According to Meridia, the Hero (Vestige) is only nearly dead and just beginning life after regaining one's soul. Varen will live on in the Hero's mind. The Ancients were far more knowledgeable about different dimensions and worlds than we are today. Some scientists of today have only recently accepted that the conscious mind, imagination and thoughts are real. They are energy that is tangible. The essence (for want of a better word) of a person lives on.

Please remind me; are the semi-translucent people, that the Hero encounters, ever referred to as "Ghosts"?

Yeah, they are, most obviously the ones in Westtry, as the associated quest is called The Ghosts of Westtry. Ghosts of Glenumbra also indicates that other translucent NPCs are considered Ghosts, specifically referencing the ones at Glenumbra Moors and Cath Bedraud. That book also specifically states what ghosts are: Ghosts are the spirits of people who were once alive as you or I. When they died, they refused to leave.

Besides, Varen directly agrees with you that he's dead, and he says he's moving on to Aetherius. Like all ghosts, his spirit remained on Nirn while there was still something tying him to it, but as soon as that reason for remaining is gone, they move on. (A good example of this in previous games is the Forlorn Watchman in Oblivion; his spirit remained on Nirn until you released it by freeing his body from its shackles in a shipwreck.)

Thank's for the reminder.

Ref: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Ghosts_of_Glenumbra, makes it clear that Ghosts are not synonimous with other forms of undead or dead and that they are tied somehow to Nirn. They are responsible for hauntings and cannot move on until those ties have been broken.

Varen is not tied to Nirn because he has departed for Aetherius - the source of magicka and realm of dimensions such as Sovngarde - and therefore he is not a Ghost. The Vestige (and for that matter, the Hero of other Elder Scroll games) has travelled between Nirn and say Sovngarde. The Vestige is not dead, which indicates that travel between the two realms/dimensions is possible under certain circumstances. Varen was not killed in the classical sense; he is not tied to Nirn. I contend that he is not dead. He has been transposed, 'moved on' to another place, another dimension and time - or even a state of timelessness. He is alive but not in the sense as we know it or in the sense of Nirn's human inhabitants.

N.B. I agree with you regarding the Forlorn Watchman being a Ghost.

Lieblingsjunge

Sai Sahan

Sai Sahan. But now I regret my choice. I broke a young, loving couple apart. I'm a SadLiebs. I should've sacrificed the old guy instead.

Enodoc

Varen Auilarios

Tai-Chi wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Tai-Chi wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

ThaLastProdigy wrote: »

*Spoiler Alert*

You see Varen again when you beat The Orsinium Story...which means he is not truly dead.

It doesn't mean that at all. How many quests are there in ESO that have you talking to ghosts? They're all truly dead. And for that matter, so are you, Vestige.

Are they all "truly dead"? Or, are they simply entities living in another dimension?

According to Meridia, the Hero (Vestige) is only nearly dead and just beginning life after regaining one's soul. Varen will live on in the Hero's mind. The Ancients were far more knowledgeable about different dimensions and worlds than we are today. Some scientists of today have only recently accepted that the conscious mind, imagination and thoughts are real. They are energy that is tangible. The essence (for want of a better word) of a person lives on.

Please remind me; are the semi-translucent people, that the Hero encounters, ever referred to as "Ghosts"?

Yeah, they are, most obviously the ones in Westtry, as the associated quest is called The Ghosts of Westtry. Ghosts of Glenumbra also indicates that other translucent NPCs are considered Ghosts, specifically referencing the ones at Glenumbra Moors and Cath Bedraud. That book also specifically states what ghosts are: Ghosts are the spirits of people who were once alive as you or I. When they died, they refused to leave.

Besides, Varen directly agrees with you that he's dead, and he says he's moving on to Aetherius. Like all ghosts, his spirit remained on Nirn while there was still something tying him to it, but as soon as that reason for remaining is gone, they move on. (A good example of this in previous games is the Forlorn Watchman in Oblivion; his spirit remained on Nirn until you released it by freeing his body from its shackles in a shipwreck.)

Thank's for the reminder.

Ref: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Ghosts_of_Glenumbra, makes it clear that Ghosts are not synonimous with other forms of undead or dead and that they are tied somehow to Nirn. They are responsible for hauntings and cannot move on until those ties have been broken.

Varen is not tied to Nirn because he has departed for Aetherius - the source of magicka and realm of dimensions such as Sovngarde - and therefore he is not a Ghost. The Vestige (and for that matter, the Hero of other Elder Scroll games) has travelled between Nirn and say Sovngarde. The Vestige is not dead, which indicates that travel between the two realms/dimensions is possible under certain circumstances. Varen was not killed in the classical sense; he is not tied to Nirn. I contend that he is not dead. He has been transposed, 'moved on' to another place, another dimension and time - or even a state of timelessness. He is alive but not in the sense as we know it or in the sense of Nirn's human inhabitants.

N.B. I agree with you regarding the Forlorn Watchman being a Ghost.

Yeah, when you're used in a mythical ritual it's hard to determine whether you 'die' as a result of that or not. Varen only departed for Aetherius after delivering his final warning to you though, so it's possible that was what was keeping him tied to Nirn. I'm not sure if it's similar or not, but during the Mages Guild line, Shalidor is pulled back from Aetherius, and we probably wouldn't consider him a ghost even though he is most certainly 'dead' beforehand.

The Vestige is also a bit of a special case, considering they are most certainly killed at the beginning of the game. It's only because of Molag Bal's creation of Soul Shriven that the Vestige has a body again after being killed, and only because of the Skyshard that they were able to return to Nirn 'alive'.

DaMastodon

Varen Auilarios

The only one I even liked was Sai. The hard choice was picking which one I liked least! Still wish I could've nuked Tharn though.

KimberlyannKitsuragi

If I could sacrifice Abnur, I would in a heartbeat. The whole time he's existed, I've wanted to shove my blade of woe where the sun don't shine

imredneckson

Varen Auilarios

Meri20098 wrote: »

If I could sacrifice Abnur, I would in a heartbeat. The whole time he's existed, I've wanted to shove my blade of woe where the sun don't shine

Who wouldn't want to sacrifice Tharn xD

Marrtha

Sai Sahan

So many people hating on Varen, makes my heart hurt. He did try his best to fix what he had caused. And I would also like to add;

Enodoc wrote: »

Tai-Chi wrote: »

Last but not least, it really got up my nose the arrogant and condescending way in which he addressed me as;

"A degenerate or imperfectly developed organ or structure that has little or no utility, but that in an earlier stage of the individual or in preceding evolutionary forms of the organism performed a useful function". Look up the biological definition of 'Vestige'.

Technically accurate though. You are an imperfect, soulless copy of your original (pre-murdered) self; ie, a remnant of something that was fully functional but now no longer exists.

We in the end got our soul back, it seemed to be our quest from the start. But we also freed so many souls that all became a part of us. I see it as quite symbolic.

Enodoc

Varen Auilarios

Marrtha wrote: »

So many people hating on Varen, makes my heart hurt. He did try his best to fix what he had caused. And I would also like to add;

Enodoc wrote: »

Tai-Chi wrote: »

Last but not least, it really got up my nose the arrogant and condescending way in which he addressed me as;

"A degenerate or imperfectly developed organ or structure that has little or no utility, but that in an earlier stage of the individual or in preceding evolutionary forms of the organism performed a useful function". Look up the biological definition of 'Vestige'.

Technically accurate though. You are an imperfect, soulless copy of your original (pre-murdered) self; ie, a remnant of something that was fully functional but now no longer exists.

We in the end got our soul back, it seemed to be our quest from the start. But we also freed so many souls that all became a part of us. I see it as quite symbolic.

Right, and the very last time you see Varen, he acknowledges that Vestige is no longer an appropriate title, which is also quite symbolic.