Respec Gold cost elimination/reduction

BenjaminKacher_ESO

mmeisenheimerub17_ESO wrote: »

This is ridiculous. As the developers have promised, we should be able to use any weapon, and any class skill at any time without punishment. This is punishment. Now you may say, "well you can just pick up any weapon and use it, you don't need skills to actually use it." Well in reality, no you can't. Using a weapon with out some skills out of its skill line will prove to be impossible because you cant kill anything without some kind of skills. You can do some damage, but it would never be enough without the skills, you would just die horribly over and over again. You also might say, "well people would just respec so they would be able to craft everything, or use a hireling skill to get unlimited mats." This is also true, but you can restrict the respec ability in different and less punishing ways. Put a 24 hour cap or longer on the respec, not straight up punish the player by taking almost all of his gold!

I should be able to say,"well I am getting sick of this destruction staff and I want to switch to one hand and shield." And you should be able to based on what the developers have fed us through their media! This respec cost crap is insanely expensive, and should be changed.

Show me where they said "be able to use any weapon, and any class skill at any time without punishment"

They said you can use any weapon with any class to create thousands of useful combinations. But I've never seen anything that said you would be able to use any weapon and any class skill at any time without punishment.

There's over 300 skill points available in the game, get them and use them.

And for everyone who wants to "tinker around with their build" use this first... http://esohead.com/calculator/skills

BalanceGaming

Eso head is not a valid way to tinker with your build! Its just descriptions of the skills, you don't know how effective they are until you actually use them yourself, i have said this before. Please check through the other comments before you start the same debate over again......

Lodestar

BalanceGaming wrote: »

Eso head is not a valid way to tinker with your build! Its just descriptions of the skills, you don't know how effective they are until you actually use them yourself, i have said this before. Please check through the other comments before you start the same debate over again......

I was thinking the same thing, and hell I even added how peoples learning style has a lot to do with it, and commented on how insular this view was, and people should not judge what they don't understand.

Looks like this discussion has already gotten cyclic. Forums are too often that way. People beating each other with their opinion and world view stated as fact. May also be worth pointing out we do have a feedback option too. But, just be sure to place exactly what you think, and how you would like to see it solved.

EDIT: It also occurred to me, how ludicrous it is, to suggest a game development team, should factor in outside party guides, into their game designs.

Lenthas

It should have a limited factor in it so you don't simply respec every time you please, so you can fit every possible role.

The leveling limitation comes from not having all weapon skill maxed out, but imagine from 6 months time, every single skill is maxed, at max level gold is the only factor that can prevent this...

While leveling though i would love to have a MUCH MUCH less cost system... Anything really..

BalanceGaming

@Lenthas‌ I remember someone mentioning something like a weekly lockout. That would be better then this gold cost.

Niminion

More points only makes the problem worse! If I have 150 points it costs 15,000 gold to change out of a bad/broken morph! 300 skill points still won't help you with your character if you have the wrong set of morphs. Instead it just makes the cost of changing them 30,000 gold! After about 80 skill points, they stop actually improving your character and simply make it so you can use different weapons or armor or do crafting.

Some morphs are BAD compared to the others, some are BROKEN, some have misleading and mysterious tooltips, some don't scale in the same way as the other.

Certain morphs drastically change the way a build plays and you only have 5 skills on your bar if one of them has anti-synergy with your build in a way you didn't know and you find out later, its a big deal.

There needs to be a way to change morphs without resetting everything.

Pyatra

Niminion wrote: »

More points only makes the problem worse! If I have 150 points it costs 15,000 gold to change out of a bad/broken morph! 300 skill points still won't help you with your character if you have the wrong set of morphs. Instead it just makes the cost of changing them 30,000 gold! After about 80 skill points, they stop actually improving your character and simply make it so you can use different weapons or armor or do crafting.

Some morphs are BAD compared to the others, some are BROKEN, some have misleading and mysterious tooltips, some don't scale in the same way as the other.

Certain morphs drastically change the way a build plays and you only have 5 skills on your bar if one of them has anti-synergy with your build in a way you didn't know and you find out later, its a big deal.

There needs to be a way to change morphs without resetting everything.

If you have 150 skill points you're probably veteran. $15k is a minor inconvenience to me and I just turned 40. I was broke 3 levels ago and I didn't farm anything or sell anything to players, just NPCs and I have $20k right now. At 150 skill points you can easily get 3-6 more points within an hour if your goal is only skill points. I respec'ed around level 14 and 23, even though it wiped me out I wasn't really spending gold on much anyway.

BalanceGaming

@Pyatra‌ Do you sell all the armor you get or do you deconstruct? Most people don't sell all their loot so they can level their crafting skills. Also I have about 150 skills at level 43.

Pyatra

BalanceGaming wrote: »

@Pyatra‌ Do you sell all the armor you get or do you deconstruct? Most people don't sell all their loot so they can level their crafting skills. Also I have about 150 skills at level 43.

I deconstruct all weapons and armor. I create provisioning goods and most the time just dump them on NPCs if its just the common stuff, blue stuff I keep just a couple stacks of. Of course I also make my own armor every two levels so that probably saves me money to repair occasionally. So I guess crafting may be making it easier for me to accrue money at a seemingly slow rate but I guess it all adds up.

Metrobius

I'm so bored with all of these gimme gimme threads. why do so many people think that the entire game should be moulded to their playstyle with no restrictions?

BalanceGaming

@Metrobius No one is forcing you to come on the forums. You don't like it then gtfo.

Metrobius

BalanceGaming wrote: »

@Metrobius No one is forcing you to come on the forums. You don't like it then gtfo.

I know. . .It sucks to be reminded of how dull and uninteresting ones whining is. The bright side is that the sting you obviously felt from my comment will be the most exciting part of your day.

nashife

I wish that respecs under a certain level were free, or that you got the first respec free, or the first ones were cheap and the cost increases each time or something like that.

I am still learning how to play my class, and at level 8, when mobs started to get harder, I discovered the choices I made in terms of talents were really bad choices. (Playing templar, and I split my points between the damage and heal trees, a crafting talent, and some other things. I didn't know how morphing worked either, so never did that)

My character became utterly unplayable and I completely stopped having fun.

I wanted to respec to fix my mistakes so I could learn how to at least survive, but when I discovered how expensive it was, and how far away I had to travel to get there, I got really frustrated. It was almost better to just delete the character and start over, but I didn't want to lose the cooking recipes I'd collected.

TL;DR: without some mechanism for new players to respec easily, our experience learning the game is going to be miserable. Please consider a model that allows us to fix mistakes while learning... something like the cost increases each time you do it, or something like free respecs until level 15, or something like that.

Zakua

I'm not for a free respec model but I think the price is a bit steep. Some good suggestions in here I think.

I'd like to see it increase in price the more often you use it. Maybe your first respec costs $2500, second $5k, third respec $10k and so on. This would allow players to get a feel for some other skill aspects with out breaking them along the way.

Drekor

Pyatra wrote: »

If you have 150 skill points you're probably veteran. $15k is a minor inconvenience to me and I just turned 40. I was broke 3 levels ago and I didn't farm anything or sell anything to players, just NPCs and I have $20k right now. At 150 skill points you can easily get 3-6 more points within an hour if your goal is only skill points. I respec'ed around level 14 and 23, even though it wiped me out I wasn't really spending gold on much anyway.

I agree, I've respec'd 3 times already each over 10k and it's not really an issue(in addition to buying lots of bag/bank space and the 42k horse). I'd really just like a way to respec ONE ability, I don't care if it costs 1000g or 2000g or 5000g. I can't be bothered to redo EVERYTHING when I respec, it's annoying when you have 150+ skill points spent.

liquid_wolf

I'm level 40 and have 100 skill points.

It would be very expensive for me to respec... but I don't really feel I need to.

336 Skyshards means there are 131 skill points from sky shards. 50 points from levels, and I'm willing to bet at least another 50 from quests, dungeons, and events in total.

Either way I'm looking at over 200 skill points... so I don't entirely plan on respeccing... just getting more skill points.

Drekor wrote: »

I agree, I've respec'd 3 times already each over 10k and it's not really an issue(in addition to buying lots of bag/bank space and the 42k horse). I'd really just like a way to respec ONE ability, I don't care if it costs 1000g or 2000g or 5000g. I can't be bothered to redo EVERYTHING when I respec, it's annoying when you have 150+ skill points spent.

I do agree with this here. I would like to have the ability to target particular skills to empty those of points rather than the entire bundle.

But I have not entirely hit that point yet. I've still got a lot of points to gather.

OrangeTheCat

I find that there are more than enough skill points available to do whatever I want without needing to respec. I put points into things just to try them out. I have more than enough skill points to put them into all crafting lines. Yes, ALL crafting (puts a load on my inventory space, but that's another issues for a different thread). It's nice that we can respec but honestly, I don't think I will ever need to make use of it. Also, I find not respec-ing as a simple and cheap option makes me think about my class\build more, where it's deficiencies lay and how to compensate for them. I say leave the respec cost as-is.

Tetujin

To have to do a full respec to change a morph is the main problem I see, that's not something you can outgrow with more skill points. The ability to flip a morph to its other version without resetting everything, for whatever reasonable cost, would be a good enough change to me.

Phaoryx

Galeon wrote: »

I would sugest, that they add the option to reset your morphs only, I think it is stupid that you have to pay several thousand gold because you come to not like one or two of your morph decissions.

^Yeah.

They could definitely add different options for respecing, not all at once. I mean, I blew off 5k to remorph my teleport strike, and now I miss the old one but don't want to blow off even more money. I'm fine with the 100g per point, but maybe make it one skill tree at a time w/ a cooldown? I can see that working quite well... One tree every 24 hours or something.

aerziel1cub18_ESO

the problem is that if you morph a skill your stuck with it and what if you want to use the other morph skill how will you get that even if you have enough money its to much of a waste just by doing so.

Cerunnos

My opinion:

I think the respecc cost is ok. Maybe you should get your 1st for free or very cheap, but that's about it.

You also have enough Skyshards, Public Dungeons and the sorts to gain extra Skill Points which makes multiple specs viable. Which will reduce the ammount of times you will really need to respecc because your whole build (everything gained from levels, quests, public dungeons, skyshards, etc, everything) is broken beyond any repair with more skills.

To give you an example, my DK specc is since day one, Full 1H Shield and Heavy Armor with Hearthen Heart mix. At level 25 I had a change of heart and no money for respecc. So I went on to find some Skyshards I didn't find, do some public dungeons I didn't do and there I was, back on track with a good start on Light Armor/Destro/Resto Staff AND Ardent Flame/Dragon spells! That's a different Armor skill, 2 Different Weapons and 2 Different Skill Trees WITHOUT HAVING TO RESPECC! I am now lvl 36 and way more powerfull than I was with my Original specc.

Bottom line: This isn't your regular MMO with the same rules. ZOS promissed something different, they delivered something different. ESO is not bound by the same rules as any other WOW clone. Here you need to rediscover what is to play a MMORPG. You need to read, you need to think, databases are still just being built. It will take time before you have everything delivered to you in a plate...

Mordenkaiser

My thoughts?

I think allowing a "third" statue that allows one to Respec morphs seems realistic. Make it cheaper then the other 2 (of course)

I disagree with free Respecs because as someone way back mentioned "Its game breaking" I wanted to share my thoughts on "why" I feel it is game breaking, and to summarize some of the points other folks in this thread made.

1 - It promotes "flavor of the month"
We seen this, it happens "your not specced this way...wow you suck" mentality gets promoted, if changing your character is costly, then people are less likely to ride each other about the design choices they've made, it also results is more unique players.

2 - It helps keep gold inflation down
We need cash sinks, at this point we have...bag space, bank space, teleports, Siege stuff, Horses and the odd NPC bought craft mat. Of all of those I would say Horses and "space" are the only two that really get pricey. If you made Respecs free, that would mean less gold being thrown away, which means gold is more plentiful and folks start asking higher and higher prices, cause they know the gold is out there.

3 - More development, thought put into characters
I actually play the game with my wife, she makes some horrible character design decisions and has a tough time of things, we went sky-shard hunting/dungeon to get her some extra skill points to try and untangle her build which was just not working out imo for her play style. While a free respec would have allowed her to google a cookie cutter build, it would have also resulted in her overlooking abilities she tried and liked using. I know it seems like a bit of a paradox, but while free respecs might promote testing builds, it also discourages using some builds because respeccing is so accessible, that everyone just goes with what works.

I wanted to close my little wall of text with a odd thought I've noticed, a trend I've seen a lot recently of "I have to be the best!" which makes me a little sad, because it strikes me as people are so driven to competition that they forget how to relax and take it easy, it is just a game after all. That is not to say that being the best doesn't have its merits, for some people being the best is how they have fun, but a little food for thought....

If Being the best is how to have fun, and your designing a game for hundreds of thousands of players and there can only be one person who is "the best"

How does everyone else have fun?

Erotes

I love this restriction. I think it helps to keep player customization unique. It would be so lame if we could do what the op is asking, because everyone would be the same. I like knowing that my build is unique and offers some skills that other players don't have...just like in life.

Erotes

BalanceGaming wrote: »

@tommipalup16 Its not just about mistakenly distributing skill points, i should be able to change my role around at any time and use whatever weapon i want effectively, and it will not be effective if I do not have skill points to send. And im sorry i highly doubt that there are enough skill points in the game to get every passive,crafting, and skill effects that I want.

Sorry but i have to disagree. What you are asking is ridiculous and antithetical to a sandbox mmo community. A good mmo should make you HAVE to choose between a ton of skills that you "want". It shouldn't be easy to decide and it shouldn't be easy to change.

I understand where you are coming from but one of the best reasons to play sand box mmos is that every player has a unique skill set that distinguishes them from other players. This is part of what made darkfall unsuccessful; no skill limitations so every player was exactly the same.

I don't mean to attack your opinion but I just want to help explain why a steep price for a skill reset is important to a game like this.

ZurinArctus

I like the idea of a timer.

However, I change my skills a lot experimenting with different builds. I probably dumped close to 50k yesterday alone.

The option should be there such that 1 free respec every 24h, and you can pay the current 100g/skill fee for subsequent times.

Supersomething

I don't think they have to be rid of the cost entirely, but they should certainly give players the option to choose skill lines they would like to reallocate for.

It is really outrageous that you are fined for every skill point spent when you probably just want to change some morphs or perhaps change from one weapon tree to another.

zierk

Erotes wrote: »

BalanceGaming wrote: »

@tommipalup16 Its not just about mistakenly distributing skill points, i should be able to change my role around at any time and use whatever weapon i want effectively, and it will not be effective if I do not have skill points to send. And im sorry i highly doubt that there are enough skill points in the game to get every passive,crafting, and skill effects that I want.

Sorry but i have to disagree. What you are asking is ridiculous and antithetical to a sandbox mmo community. A good mmo should make you HAVE to choose between a ton of skills that you "want". It shouldn't be easy to decide and it shouldn't be easy to change.

I understand where you are coming from but one of the best reasons to play sand box mmos is that every player has a unique skill set that distinguishes them from other players. This is part of what made darkfall unsuccessful; no skill limitations so every player was exactly the same.

I don't mean to attack your opinion but I just want to help explain why a steep price for a skill reset is important to a game like this.

@Erotes I agree completely.

There should be some weight, value and meaning to the decisions you make when creating your character. I cannot see this game ever putting in a cost-less respec, it goes against the nature of being a sandbox. Yes the devs say you CAN be anything, not that you can be EVERYTHING. I am a victim myself of this as it took me well in to my 20s to realize I wasn't happy with my race selection and my attribute points were less then optimal so I completely rerolled my toon. I am now approaching being caught up with my old self and I feel much more efficient and happier with my decisions this time around.

I think the steep cost makes you pause a moment before you just jump the gun with a respec, and it makes you think more about character development while you are leveling.

DGVish

I too have a hard time swallowing the price of the respec. I realize your choices are supposed to be long lasting and you don't need to change them constantly, but you can do so much with your character it is hard to not be tempted to try out other stuff.

BalanceGaming

@Crunnos But what about those players that are completionists like me? At 37 (the time I wanted to respec) I had all the sky shards all the dungeons completed and to my knowledge, all the skills from quest lines. I was stuck. The only option I had was to respec, I could not go hunting for skill points.

GwaynLoki

I'd advocate the possibility of respeccing for no cost until you reach level 50. That way, everyone can experiment with skills and morphs. Furthermore, I can say form my own experience that I was usually very short on skill points on my way to 50 despite me collecting every skyshard on every map I did. Once you have access to all other areas and a possible ~300 skill points, I agree that there should be a penalty for respeccing.

All morphs of currently bugged skills need to be reset after they have been fixed so people can decide which of the working versions they want.