STOP ASKING FOR GLOBAL AUCTION HOUSE

Brennan

Seedyman wrote: »

I honestly have no idea why anyone would ever think that not having an AH would deter gold farmers in any way, they benefit the most from smaller markets, just like any other greedy folks.

They don't benefit from larger or smaller markets. They benefit from people buying gold.

The gold farming issue is not an issue. It is neither an argument for or against a global AH:

However, by decentralizing trade into Guild managed stores, they can not affect the global economy. They can only affect those guilds to which they belong. If you're in a guild that has a gold farmer screwing with your store - kick them out of your guild.

In truth, the entire crusade for the creation of a global auction house is pointless. Zenimax has stated emphatically that they are not and will not implement a global, alliance, or zone auction house. So I guess we all better get used to it. It's here to stay.

Aicilef

How to put this politely...

You are trying to force your way of gaming on others people. And forcing people that want to craft and trade out of the game.

First... the reasons that you give for not having an AH are simply not valid. You want more social interaction, but having no AH is not achieving that goal. There is zero interaction more. People that don't want to chat won't chat.

In your mind, you think that blocking traders from a wide audience will lead to more social interaction. Show me any proof whatsoever that this is actually happening.

There is none. Unless you call endless 'LTS' ads interaction, lol. IT's really simple: you can't force people to do something they don't want. They simply won't do it. How can anyone think that in todays competetive gaming world, you can force players to play the way YOU want instead of how THEY want? Really, how on earth can you think that? What indicators do you have that people will say 'oh, yes, sure, let's all of a sudden become a chatty person, interact socially, because that's how THEY want me to be'.

It's not gonne happen.


Second... the guild store is terrible. Let's be honest, it's terrbile. And that's the most polite word to describe it.

There is no way to sort on name, no way to sort per cost per item, no way even to just see the herbs or the food ingredients. You got to wade through pages and pages and pages of stuff to see if one of the 5 guilds has -say- herbs.
Seriously, only the biggest of fan boys can defend these guild stores.

Third... the trade audiance you are having. If you count 5x500 guild members, plus -say- 500 in /zone, you're trading with maximum 2,500 people (unless you want to take up a PvP spot of your server, lol). 2,500 people is an insane low amount on a total of -say- 1,000,000.

And that 2,500 is the absolute maximum, you can be sure that in a month or so, 3/4th of the people will have left the game (I'm being brutally honest here, 3/4th seems a reasonable number). So, 3/4th of the current guild members are gone. And since every trader is already in 5 trade guilds, you can't merge guilds easily. So, BAM, your trade audience has just vanished.

And to top it all of, you can only put up 30 items. Come on!!!

All of this is a receipe for disaster in the future: no AH, bad guild stores and very small trade circle that will become even smaller in the future. IT's simply unsustainble.

And for what? What are they actually achieving? Nothing. People that don't want to interact, won't interact.

It's a stupid decision and it costs them players.

Alephen

Brennan wrote: »

So in games with a global AH you talk to every player that buys your stuff from said AH?

reading comprehension

i asked why is it better that i join 4 trading guilds with people that i never talk to then i have a global store to sell to people i dont talk to. so i actually granted the postion that with a global house i wouldnt talk to these people, but posited that guild stores do not encourage any more interacting.

but the reality is i do talk to potential customers at about the same rate, which means a global store is ALOT more chatting for me. i talk up customers, beause, repeat business.

i craft alot, i harvest alot. have max crafters throughout the games i played. i enjoy making things people use. more customers means i get to craft more. i do feel i will craft ALOT less due to small customer base (i do not like to zone spam.) while you may not care about how much fun i have in game, it means at less supply so higher costs.

edit: if i decide to join 4 store guilds they will fill with lvl 50 players, i will make nothing for non 50s/VRs except for alts. thus no gear for new players starting out. i am one crafter, but the same issue will curb many crafters. new players wont be able to get into these guilds since full or recruiting new 50s. so they will be frozen out of the non zone spam market.

Brennan

Aicilef wrote: »

It's a stupid decision and it costs them players.

Of course it is. Game is two weeks old and people are just leaving in droves. But they're not.

I appreciate your politeness so let me respond as politely as I can:

This game does not and will not (according to the people you pay to play this game) have a global auction house.

They are not forcing anyone to do anything. You have willingly purchased the game and paid a subscription fee. As have I, knowing full well about the absence of a centralized auction house. In contrast, people advocating for the implementation of an auction house want to force those of us who like the existing system to play their way despite the fact that these same people can willingly unsubscribe from this game and go play one or more of literally hundreds of other MMOs that, to their delight, include a centralized auction house.

Alephen

Brennan wrote: »

Aicilef wrote: »

It's a stupid decision and it costs them players.

Of course it is. Game is two weeks old and people are just leaving in droves. But they're not.

I appreciate your politeness so let me respond as politely as I can:

This game does not and will not (according to the people you pay to play this game) have a global auction house.

They are not forcing anyone to do anything. You have willingly purchased the game and paid a subscription fee. As have I, knowing full well about the absence of a centralized auction house. In contrast, people advocating for the implementation of an auction house want to force those of us who like the existing system to play their way despite the fact that these same people can willingly unsubscribe from this game and go play one or more of literally hundreds of other MMOs that, to their delight, include a centralized auction house.

so let me see if i get your statement right:

players who want to have a global store are trying to force the rest into a system they less prefer, when the first group can just unsub and play something else, and that is wrong.

as opposed to those who want guild stores who want to force the rest into a system they less prefer, when the first group can just unsub and play something else, and that is ok.

edit: noone here can force anyone to do anything. we can give feedback to the devs and they will decide. so at best i think you are being dramatic.

Brennan

Alephen wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

Aicilef wrote: »

It's a stupid decision and it costs them players.

Of course it is. Game is two weeks old and people are just leaving in droves. But they're not.

I appreciate your politeness so let me respond as politely as I can:

This game does not and will not (according to the people you pay to play this game) have a global auction house.

They are not forcing anyone to do anything. You have willingly purchased the game and paid a subscription fee. As have I, knowing full well about the absence of a centralized auction house. In contrast, people advocating for the implementation of an auction house want to force those of us who like the existing system to play their way despite the fact that these same people can willingly unsubscribe from this game and go play one or more of literally hundreds of other MMOs that, to their delight, include a centralized auction house.

so let me see if i get your statement right:

players who want to have a global store are trying to force the rest into a system they less prefer, when the first group can just unsub and play something else, and that is wrong.

as opposed to those who want guild stores who want to force the rest into a system they less prefer, when the first group can just unsub and play something else, and that is ok.

No. We don't want guild stores. We have guild stores. It's the existing status quo in this game and you willingly have chosen to play within this system. You were at no point forced into anything.

Other games have a different status quo.

If you do not like the status quo in this game, play a game with a status quo that is acceptable to you.

Brennan

Alephen wrote: »

edit: noone here can force anyone to do anything. we can give feedback to the devs and they will decide. so at best i think you are being dramatic.

No again. Being dramatic involves speculating on the vast number of people that will quit the game because of the trade system they don't like two weeks after the game was released..

Alephen

Brennan wrote: »

Alephen wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

Aicilef wrote: »

It's a stupid decision and it costs them players.

Of course it is. Game is two weeks old and people are just leaving in droves. But they're not.

I appreciate your politeness so let me respond as politely as I can:

This game does not and will not (according to the people you pay to play this game) have a global auction house.

They are not forcing anyone to do anything. You have willingly purchased the game and paid a subscription fee. As have I, knowing full well about the absence of a centralized auction house. In contrast, people advocating for the implementation of an auction house want to force those of us who like the existing system to play their way despite the fact that these same people can willingly unsubscribe from this game and go play one or more of literally hundreds of other MMOs that, to their delight, include a centralized auction house.

so let me see if i get your statement right:

players who want to have a global store are trying to force the rest into a system they less prefer, when the first group can just unsub and play something else, and that is wrong.

as opposed to those who want guild stores who want to force the rest into a system they less prefer, when the first group can just unsub and play something else, and that is ok.

No. We don't want guild stores. We have guild stores. It's the existing status quo in this game and you willingly have chosen to play within this system. You were at no point forced into anything.

Other games have a different status quo.

If you do not like the status quo in this game, play a game with a status quo that is acceptable to you.

apparently you cannot see your hypocrisy.

to say those that want change must leave is no more 'fair' or 'righteous' than saying those that dont want change should leave. you feel you have mroe right than i do in what this game is and will become. i disagree, i think the community should give feedback on what they want, and the devs will decide what is the best course of action.

since you think anyone that wants change should leave, should those that want the lag and bugs fixed just leave? after all that is the status quo, so if you dont like lag and bugs find a game with a less laggy less buggy status quo, right?

i do not blindly cling to what is, but constant look to what could be better. if people do not speak up, they will not be heard. *I* believe this is a good thing, that everyone should speak up. you apparently want free speech for those that will speak as you do.

Alephen

Brennan wrote: »

Alephen wrote: »

edit: noone here can force anyone to do anything. we can give feedback to the devs and they will decide. so at best i think you are being dramatic.

No again. Being dramatic involves speculating on the vast number of people that will quit the game because of the trade system they don't like two weeks after the game was released..

as i said, at *best* you are being dramatic.

oh and as a P.S. if a global store was added tomorrow noone would be force to do anything different. i dont know of any game that FORCES you to use the market.

at most it would be advantageous for you to use it. but that would only occur if it was a better system then what is current. if it is not better, then you can ignore it and have 0 gameplay difference.

Brennan

Alephen wrote: »

apparently you cannot see your hypocrisy.

to say those that want change must leave is no more 'fair' or 'righteous' than saying those that dont want change should leave. you feel you have mroe right than i do in what this game is and will become. i disagree, i think the community should give feedback on what they want, and the devs will decide what is the best course of action.

I'm not saying you must leave. I am saying that if you do not like the game you should find a game you like. The devs have already decided and you're not going to like their decision. You can stay and play with the trade as it is with perhaps some enhancements to the Guild Store UI, such as a more intuitive search function or you can play a game where the developers have decided to include an auction house.

Alephen wrote: »

since you think anyone that wants change should leave, should those that want the lag and bugs fixed just leave? after all that is the status quo, so if you dont like lag and bugs find a game with a less laggy less buggy status quo, right?

Bugs and lag are not working as intended. Guild stores are.

Alephen wrote: »

i do not blindly cling to what is, but constant look to what could be better. if people do not speak up, they will not be heard. *I* believe this is a good thing, that everyone should speak up. you apparently want free speech for those that will speak as you do.

Better for who? For you? I like this game. I like the small scale trading. What other game can I play that has trade like this?

What other game can you play that has trade that you like? Not sure if there is a character limit for a post but I don't have the time to list every game that already has your "better" system.

Furthermore, and I think this is something that you are quite conveniently leaving out, this game is only two weeks post-release. Be honest now - do you really think you've given yourself enough time to acclimate to this different system? Or is it more likely that you've found yourself frustrated and rather than take the initiative to work within the system, you've chosen to come here, in a knee-jerk fashion, to ask for this change two weeks after launch?

Alephen

Brennan wrote: »

Alephen wrote: »

apparently you cannot see your hypocrisy.

to say those that want change must leave is no more 'fair' or 'righteous' than saying those that dont want change should leave. you feel you have mroe right than i do in what this game is and will become. i disagree, i think the community should give feedback on what they want, and the devs will decide what is the best course of action.

I'm not saying you must leave. I am saying that if you do not like the game you should find a game you like. The devs have already decided and you're not going to like their decision. You can stay and play with the trade as it is with perhaps some enhancements to the Guild Store UI, such as a more intuitive search function or you can play a game where the developers have decided to include an auction house.

Alephen wrote: »

since you think anyone that wants change should leave, should those that want the lag and bugs fixed just leave? after all that is the status quo, so if you dont like lag and bugs find a game with a less laggy less buggy status quo, right?

Bugs and lag are not working as intended. Guild stores are.

Alephen wrote: »

i do not blindly cling to what is, but constant look to what could be better. if people do not speak up, they will not be heard. *I* believe this is a good thing, that everyone should speak up. you apparently want free speech for those that will speak as you do.

Better for who? For you? I like this game. I like the small scale trading. What other game can I play that has trade like this?

What other game can you play that has trade that you like? Not sure if there is a character limit for a post but I don't have the time to list every game that already has your "better" system.

Furthermore, and I think this is something that you are quite conveniently leaving out, this game is only two weeks post-release. Be honest now - do you really think you've given yourself enough time to acclimate to this different system? Or is it more likely that you've found yourself frustrated and rather than take the initiative to work within the system, you've chosen to come here, in a knee-jerk fashion, to ask for this change two weeks after launch?

yes, i will suggest things that *I* think would make the game better. everyone should suggest things that *they* would think would make the game better. why would i advocate for something i didnt think would be better?

to disagree with me is one thing, to tell me to shut up and take it because you like it the way it is... yeah, take your fascism somewhere else. *sigh* everyone supports freedom of speech until someone else disagrees with them.

and you shouldnt suppose what i do or do not know. i have given reasons why i believe what i do. my opinions are every bit as valid as yours, i have every right to speak up as you do. i leave out nothing, i do not knee-jerk react to anything, nor do i play a game for only one reason.

i have seen what is happening, seen the supposed benefits not exist. maybe they will materialize in the future. but based on the present, and combined with reason and experience, i doubt they will.

for a point by point:
why i dont care for small markets:
1) someone wants to sell cheap for their guildies because, you know, guildies. guildmate buys up and sells in other guild or in zone for profit because to them that guild is nothing but an auction house. guilds suffer.

2) prices in guilds fluctuate wildly. some people in guilds without a lot of supply have high prices, others in guilds without alot of demand have low prices.

3) crafters have a much smaller market, so crafted gear is rarely made except on request. people who actually want to craft items will be in larger craft guilds. lowbies wont be in those guilds so will have a harder time finding someone to make something.

4) instead of guild being teams of people working together, most are teams of people trying to make money off each other. i, like most crafters, charge nothing more than cost for a craft to guildmates. while some guilds will keep their integrity, being in a guild means less in this game because of 5 guilds and 4 are about money. the fact that most guilds are not teams lessens the value even of those that are.

5) more money in the economy. since people will be crafting less, except on commision, less items will be sold in the stores. commissioned work will be mailed and traded/cod for less charge then the stores. money doesnt come from crafting or harvesting. it comes from gold/loot drops. the drops are not affected by the scope of the stores so the supply of gold is unaffected. same amount of gold into theeconomy, less gold out of the economy seems to mean more gold in the economy, thus higher prices.

the arguements i have seen for guild stores are 'i like it' and various things that seem irrelevant. how is a guild with chat turned off more sociable than zone with zone turned on? how does guild stores help new players who are unable to sell items for actual market value because they cant get into the established trade guilds and thus have less money to pay for repairs, inventory, mounts? yeah global means gear they would buy would be more expensive, but since they could sell stuff for more, it would wash. but fixed costs - cash sinks- would be more affordable.

so no, not 'knee-jerk' but actually thought out.

Brennan

Alephen wrote: »

*snip*
the arguements i have seen for guild stores are 'i like it' and various things that seem irrelevant. how is a guild with chat turned off more sociable than zone with zone turned on? how does guild stores help new players who are unable to sell items for actual market value because they cant get into the established trade guilds and thus have less money to pay for repairs, inventory, mounts? yeah global means gear they would buy would be more expensive, but since they could sell stuff for more, it would wash. but fixed costs - cash sinks- would be more affordable.

so no, not 'knee-jerk' but actually thought out.

You're either not paying attention or you are being willfully obtuse. There are guild stores because that is what Zenimax wanted. What part of that do you not get?

The argument that I am making is that I chose to play this game because it's different where as you want to make this part the same as every other MMO that exists.

You can voice your opinion all you want. Please, don't ever stop posting. But don't expect me to sit here, idly, and be reticent and complacent in your attempts to make this part of the game the same as every other MMO in existence. If I wanted to play every other MMO in existence I would. I don't. You seem to want to. I don't care what you want to do with your money and time. But I want to play this game.

And the facts remain - there is no global auction house in this game. Regardless of whatever Doctorate in Economics arguments and assertions that you want to make, the developers have stated emphatically, on more than one occasion, that it's not to be. So if they aren't interested in implementing this feature, who is it precisely that you are trying to convince?

Alephen

i not only get it, you have simply reiterated my point. no argument as to why guild stores are *better* just you like them and zenimax wanted them. peppered with trying to diminish me with ad hominems such as suggestiong i must not have thought much about this, facetiousness with the doctorate statement. but never an argument.

devs change their minds, games change their devs. fact is nearly every game has made changes. they are not facists, they are capitalists. anyway, reasonable chance they will change their minds. other games have. SWTOR and vanguard were both more local in the beginning. and weighing my reasons why i think it is a bad idea versus your 'i like it' i at least doesnt hurt the chances.

mostly, however, my argument is with people who tell others to shut up. which is the only reason you are continuing to post, and the only reason i posted in this thread to begin with. and you say now it is ok for me to post, while telling me to stop saying what i am saying - implying your wishes take priority, mocking, and finally saying 'devs said never gonna happen.'

what? i have this thread all wrong? oh i thought it was titled, 'STOP ASKING FOR GLOBAL AUCTION HOUSE'

a global store does not force those who do not want one to use it! you would be forced to do nothing. nor were you forced to play a game, which you agreed, could change its gameplay at will. so i guess neither of us were forced.

anyway, cannot teach those that will not learn. so

Eledra

I for one will be happy for local "Marketplace" in big cities, and one in "war zone". Also if somehow in future i can see EvE like trading "hub" in game i be really happy. Ofcourse no Jita here = i need right time to travel to Jita or hardcap don't let me in, at other hand i don't think we will see 2k player in one place.

Brennan

Alephen wrote: »

i not only get it, you have simply reiterated my point. no argument as to why guild stores are *better* just you like them and zenimax wanted them. peppered with trying to diminish me with ad hominems such as suggestiong i must not have thought much about this, facetiousness with the doctorate statement. but never an argument.

devs change their minds, games change their devs. fact is nearly every game has made changes. they are not facists, they are capitalists. anyway, reasonable chance they will change their minds. other games have. SWTOR and vanguard were both more local in the beginning. and weighing my reasons why i think it is a bad idea versus your 'i like it' i at least doesnt hurt the chances.

mostly, however, my argument is with people who tell others to shut up. which is the only reason you are continuing to post, and the only reason i posted in this thread to begin with. and you say now it is ok for me to post, while telling me to stop saying what i am saying - implying your wishes take priority, mocking, and finally saying 'devs said never gonna happen.'

what? i have this thread all wrong? oh i thought it was titled, 'STOP ASKING FOR GLOBAL AUCTION HOUSE'

a global store does not force those who do not want one to use it! you would be forced to do nothing. nor were you forced to play a game, which you agreed, could change its gameplay at will. so i guess neither of us were forced.

anyway, cannot teach those that will not learn. so

My argument is the same as it has been. This game does not have an auction house. I still play it. Not my problem if you don't like it. Not my problem if you don't like the game.

You bought a Ford but wanted a Chevrolet. It's not Ford's fault.

anton1nh

knightblaster wrote: »

AHs are very much in part to blame, due to gold farmers listing items for obscene prices on the AH. How do you think they make gold? That's how. WoW's expensive mounts and vanity items are gold *sinks*, taking money out of the economy, to slow inflation. The AH, with its highly priced gold-seller items, generates inflation.

In any case, my point is that while an AH always generates inflation, in a megaserver environment a global AH obviates the entire game by making the game about currency (because items are *always* more easily sourced by buying them on the AH due to the huge supply in a megaserver environment). It makes the game revolve around the gold. It's a terrible design. WoW was able to get away with it because even though its servers are much larger than the guilds here, they are much, much, much, much smaller than the megaserver here. A megaserver AH destroys the actual gameplay and reduces everything to gold generation -- to having a virtual job.

yes that how they make gold! have you ever wonder about why can they sell it?!

because players want the gold to buy the vanity mount meant to be gold *sinks*!

player want to show that they are unique and accomplished and therefor they are all the same. because they all have the exact same achievements and vanity items. no-one wants fall behind! if you do you'd better buy from goldsellers to fix that.
if you don't believe me about this i was in ESO at 5-day early access and it was vanity pet central. everybody made sure they had them and had them out, so no-one stood apart. that's just how players work.

I firmly believe that is there are no gold sinks in ESO there will be no reason for players to buy gold from the gold sellers. allowing us to trade without them interrupting it.

when gold is just a means to an end and not worth accumulating no player will buy gold from gold sellers. putting them out of business.

Alephen wrote: »

yes, make a global auction house!

1. it privides you better access to what you would want to buy, if you want to buy, and if you dont, then you can leave it alone.
2. current system has no player interaction on sales, unless you count spamming in /zone
3. you want to be in a guild with people that are only there to make money off of you? not my kind of guild.
4. low level resources that cost alot more gold would be bought by veteran players and likely sold by new players. this gives the new players a chance to get enough money to buy anything. it also would allow new players, who would not be able to get into the full established trade guilds, to actually find items to purchase.
5. trading guild stores will likley have higher prices since the gatherers would have no competition. global AH allows new players to easy sell their mats and make enough coin to compete with the veterans in purchasing items. new players will not be able to get into stablished trading guilds since they will be full and fill vacancies with higher level players that can add more. look at motifs: had we a global exchange they would sell at their true value (which i am sure is less then current) and reduce zone sells.
6. scenerio A: yours makes no sense because a global exchange is absolutely irrelevant. wouldnt need to spam in /zone with a global exchange, could just list it. as far as selling to guildmates and players that know you it is easier to do so with a global exchange. the guild store only makes it less personal to sell to guildmates, plus you have to charge them more to offset the store costs.

as a crafter in every game i played, not to make money, but to make items that help players - i very much hate this system. it stiffles me as a crafter. i have a small number of players i can craft to: my real guild, and 4 more guilds filled with people i never speak to. how is that better than my real guild and every other player that i never speak to?

and this! I totally agree.

eq2imora_ESO wrote: »

I'm sorry, gold sellers didn't force me to sell that item for 100k. I sold it for that because that's what someone was willing to pay to be the first on the server with it.

I have more important things to do with my time than sit around and ask for things to buy or sell in zone chat.

I just removed myself from the economy, which benefits the supply/demand chain. Which I feel is the sole purpose of this crappy economic model. To make it more of a hassle than it needs to be in order to reduce supply and drive up demand.

As an aside, I crushed a purple today, got squat from them, and probably would have been better off vendoring them like I normally do with stuff.

I fail to see how this does anything to prevent someone from going to the gold seller site and paying for gold.

You don't need gold to buy things from people. You need *** amounts of gold to unlock bag/bank space, respec and buy the best horses.

There will still be gold sellers.

The only thing a global AH will do is reduce prices when there's so many of any given item you'll be better off vendoring it because it won't sell for vendor price.

See: WoW, Saronite Ore in Wrath of the Lich King. I could get that crap for vendor price per stack.

supply and demand, if something is rare it's valued highly. the larger the server the more stable the price! the influx of items will be so large that prices will drop and stuff can be bought for what it's worth. a couple of individuals trying to mocking up prices will only lose gold because they just cant keep up whit new items being put in and therefor their own overpriced items wont sell.

look at the racial styles in ESO the fist days people were asking 3k then the marked flooded and now you are lucky to get half of that! i predict that prices for those will continue to drop until at least the end of the month. that would have happened faster if there was a central faction or server wide AH. because now 500 individual markets need to flood independently instead of just the one.
personally i found traded most of the books payed 500 for 3 of them and 800 for the last one just because i thought "oh just buy it and don't haggle. your done after this one anyway."

in the end gold sellers will only be there if there are gold *sinks* in the game! without pricey inventory/bank slots vanity mount/items and respecs players will have no reason to turn to them!

to trade for reasonable price i need to bypass the guild AH's and spam /zone. I have something better to do.

I've been saying a global AH is not the only answer buy it's the easiest one.

J011Y_R063R

I think the auction house from WoW was great. I don't want immersion when it comes to me selling or buying. I just want the things I can make money on to sell and the things I want to buy to be available without 2hrs of searching. I think the current trader idea is a hassle and is infuriating. I just want to buy and sell efficiently so I can get on with my gaming. Trader is nothing but a time waster it was a good idea in theory but just get an action house and call it a day.

nudel

J011Y_R063R wrote: »

I think the auction house from WoW was great. I don't want immersion when it comes to me selling or buying. I just want the things I can make money on to sell and the things I want to buy to be available without 2hrs of searching. I think the current trader idea is a hassle and is infuriating. I just want to buy and sell efficiently so I can get on with my gaming. Trader is nothing but a time waster it was a good idea in theory but just get an action house and call it a day.

Really? Necroing a two-year-old thread...

[Deleted User]

Hello everyone,

This post is to inform you that we've felt it necessary to close this thread. The reason being that there is currently a more active and recent thread on the matter. For now we would like to avoid having multiple threads open on the same subject, to better track feedback. If you would like to continue the discussion, we would like to suggest discussing on this thread.

Thank you for understanding!