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So Zenimax recognise the lack of an AH is a serious mistsake?
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Eris✭✭✭✭It's not about making money for a lot of us. It's about having access to the materials we need to enjoy creating our characters to the furthest.
You might be satisfied running around in white crafted gear while hoarding all of your rare materials until you reach level 50 because the market place sucks. But I'm not, and would prefer an economy that actually lets me use my crafting to create greens and blues while I level up.
I know people who craft themselves greens and blues on a regular basis now, without an AH at all..
Yes but what level are they? How many characters do they have?
It's extremely unreasonable to expect a new player to be find all of the rare materials on their own to craft green or blue gear as they level up.
A good economy is needed to support this. And currently there is not one. That needs to change. I shouldn't have to wait till I am level 50 or create a dozen characters with hirelings to effectively use my crafts.
That is simply not true. My characters generally equip themselves, even my level 10 has a couple of green and a blue item that I crafted for myself. Sure, I'm not all blue, but is being all blue at low level is why you want an auction house, you might consider readjusting your expectations as it seems an awful waste since I upgrade my gear every other level.
Further, if you had the auction house you wanted, for this specific purpose, the price of blue and above materials would be so high you'd have to level a 50 to make enough money to equip your 10 with all blues because everyone would want the materials and people would buy up anything you wanted that was listed at a reasonable rate and then relist it at an extremely unreasonable rate.
The only thing that an auction house is really good for is manipulating the economy, and it gets manipulated by the people who have the most money already. Take a look at the auction house in LOTRO, even the cheapest crafting materials are far out of the reach of a low level character, they simply wouldn't have enough money to purchase anything. This is the same on just about every MMO I've ever played.
The difference here is that if you start charging an unreasonable amount in a guild trade house there are players in charge of that guild that can stop it should they choose too.
BTW, I'd like to also point out that there are ways to get materials that don't require an auction house or any interaction with other players. You can simply go out and pick them up, they are literally laying on the ground. I find just in the course of a days questing, I pick up plenty to advance my crafting skills.Side effects of reading messages on forums can cause nausea, head aches, spontaneous fits of rage, urination due to intense laughter, and sometimes the death of your monitor or other object in throwing range. If you find that you are reading forums more than 24 hours a day, please consult your nearest temporal physicist.1 -
SadisticSavior✭✭✭My Vampire guide - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99101/my-vampire-experience0 -
SoulSeekerUSA✭✭✭Stay strong ZOS, don't cave to the AH barons that want to control the in game economy. Keep it by the players for the players rather than for people who can stand at the AH 24/7.
Seriously? You haven't a clue do you? I don't want to stand around selling crap that is why I want an AH. I don't want to have to hunt for bulk items when I want to make 100 potions. It is a convenience not something all of us want to exploit.Edited by SoulSeekerUSA on April 11, 2014 3:12PM1 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭MANY successful modern MMOs have AH ... hmmm in fact many more have them than do not. And not all of them are plagued by a 'bad economy' or dominated by gold sellers. GW2 has a wonderful AH
Going through the list of triple A MMOS that are out right now that have AH, I can't think of a single example of one where the economy is dominated by gold sellers. Within the last year I've played Rift, GW2 and SWTOR pretty heavily. All three have healthy economies.1 -
Hawtsauce✭✭✭Yes I have played Rift as well and it also has a healthy economy ( Trion too sells in-game currency or rather REX that can be traded on AH for in game gold. GW2 does as well - maybe thats the answer, if the publisher sells gold no one will buy from gold farmers and they disappear.Edited by Hawtsauce on April 11, 2014 3:21PMEbonheart Pact
Darkmoon - Mag NB
Ermak - Mag Templar
Pukk - Stam NB
Hawtsauce - Mag DK
Mystik - Mag Sorc
Brutikus - Stam DK0 -
Reiterpallasch✭✭✭I like everyone saying that adding an AH would destroy the economy, yet having it be a gigantic pain in the balls to sell even the simplest of things isn't?
It's easier to say "I've never player an MMO before" that to spout all these doomsayings about how auction houses are bad (which they're not, and are more or less essential to any good MMO).2 -
Kiash✭✭✭GW2 is honestly the worst example you guys could be using. The AH is controlled by 10-20 people mass buying and selling and controlling the market whether the rest of the players realize it or not. GW2 is an example of why AH's fail, not why they succeed. Inflation + TP Barons have effectively neutered the GW2 economy just a few short years after release.2 -
tallenn✭✭✭
I'm hardly an AH baron. I just want to be able to sell the stuff I find for more than the NPC vendors will give me, and without having to spam zone chat, which nobody likes me to do, either. I'd also like to be able to quickly and easily find the things I want to buy without traveling to Cyrodiil to look through maybe 4-12 guild stores (depending how good my faction is doing on the campaign) and HOPE what I want is available.Stay strong ZOS, don't cave to the AH barons that want to control the in game economy. Keep it by the players for the players rather than for people who can stand at the AH 24/7.
It's quite the opposite, in fact. Having many small, unconnected markets is exactly what the "AH barons" want. There is all kinds of opportunity for arbitrage in a system like that, where in a free, open market it's much less common. Instead of protecting the average, every day player, the current system favors the "professional" marketeer- the guy that uses dozens of spreadsheets and specially made Addons (which they typically don't share with the general public) to find the best ways to make you, the average player that just wants to sell or buy quickly and get back to the fun, pay more and sell for less, while they collect the difference.
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wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭They must do, as they're advertising a third-party app. in their Twitter feed to help fill the gap:
"Elder Scrolls Online @TESOnline 15h
Looking to buy, sell, and trade in-game goods and services in #ESO? Then @TesoElite's new marketplace is for you: http://www.tesoelite.com/forums/threads/the-marketplace-how-to.2108/ …"
It doesn't look quite like a Hail Mary but it could be an admission by the devs that the weak trading system needs a boost because they can't change the guild store system overnight or because of the way the megaserver is set up.
Mmo devs usually guard their ip zealously. The potential for abuse is always there when trade takes place outside the game through third party sites. Hmm, maybe it is a Hail Mary.1 -
p.hurst1b16_ESO✭✭✭The guild stores are enough for trade. No need for an AH, This game is a change to the MMO genre. Take it as it is and get used to it.
Co-operate in a social guild with various players joining various trade guilds to check prices.
<Enigmatic Name> Is poaching new guild members again ! Apply on our webby with your CV and proof of identity and we can arrange an interview with a panel of our officers.0 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭GW2 is honestly the worst example you guys could be using. The AH is controlled by 10-20 people mass buying and selling and controlling the market whether the rest of the players realize it or not. GW2 is an example of why AH's fail, not why they succeed. Inflation + TP Barons have effectively neutered the GW2 economy just a few short years after release.
What a load of crap.1 -
i honestly like the game with no AH, only people i have seen complain about the anti AH system are people who are to damned lazy to sell items via zone while exploring.
I am getting tired of this argument that people who want a public auction house are lazy.
Just because we don't enjoy spamming zone chat with advertisements doesn't make us lazy.
An auction house completely eliminates trade spam. (hint no)
Go look on your WoW game still plenty of spam, it is helped with trade channel though.
You want WoW auction house I want UO/EQ old school individual vender, we got Zeni's mix and I am willing to try their idea for a while. But the WoW kids are not willing, surprise surprise.0 -
Svann✭✭✭Im not sure I agree that the lack of an AH was a mistake, but I will say that the guild store sucks badly. No search by name? wth?1
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Kiash✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »GW2 is honestly the worst example you guys could be using. The AH is controlled by 10-20 people mass buying and selling and controlling the market whether the rest of the players realize it or not. GW2 is an example of why AH's fail, not why they succeed. Inflation + TP Barons have effectively neutered the GW2 economy just a few short years after release.
What a load of crap.
Sticking your fingers in your ears doesn't make it any less true. Look it up for yourself.0 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drachenfier wrote: »GW2 is honestly the worst example you guys could be using. The AH is controlled by 10-20 people mass buying and selling and controlling the market whether the rest of the players realize it or not. GW2 is an example of why AH's fail, not why they succeed. Inflation + TP Barons have effectively neutered the GW2 economy just a few short years after release.
What a load of crap.
Sticking your fingers in your ears doesn't make it any less true. Look it up for yourself.
I've played GW2 quite extensively, and I've seen zero evidence to indicate that any of what you say is true.1 -
Kiash✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »GW2 is honestly the worst example you guys could be using. The AH is controlled by 10-20 people mass buying and selling and controlling the market whether the rest of the players realize it or not. GW2 is an example of why AH's fail, not why they succeed. Inflation + TP Barons have effectively neutered the GW2 economy just a few short years after release.
What a load of crap.
Sticking your fingers in your ears doesn't make it any less true. Look it up for yourself.
I've played GW2 quite extensively, and I've seen zero evidence to indicate that any of what you say is true.
As I said, most players are unaware. A cursory google search about GW2 TP manipulation should give you what you need to know and why the system is so broken. Good luck and happy hunting out there!Edited by Kiash on April 11, 2014 4:01PM0 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭If most players are unaware the economy has been ruined by the auction house, then it hasn't been ruined by the auction house. If the economy was in a shambles, most players would be aware.
Take ESO, for instance.1 -
Kiash✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »If most players are unaware the economy has been ruined by the auction house, then it hasn't been ruined by the auction house. If the economy was in a shambles, most players would be aware.
Take ESO, for instance.
A couple of the same people complaining on a forum very few people use most does not make. Suffice to say, "most" people will be happily playing the game without ever knowing these forums or a few peoples complaints even exist.
Knowledge is power, and understanding how an auction house negatively affected every game it has been introduced in so far is key.
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Kiash✭✭✭
It's more like guiding them somewhere else since they are not willing to hold everyone's hand on the walk down the street to buy any item in the game for pennies from an AH.1 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drachenfier wrote: »If most players are unaware the economy has been ruined by the auction house, then it hasn't been ruined by the auction house. If the economy was in a shambles, most players would be aware.
Take ESO, for instance.
A couple of the same people complaining on a forum very few people use most does not make. Suffice to say, "most" people will be happily playing the game without ever knowing these forums or a few peoples complaints even exist.
Knowledge is power, and understanding how an auction house negatively affected every game it has been introduced in so far is key.
Polls on this very forum would indicate otherwise.
If motifs were for sale in GW2, I could go to the AH, buy the cheapest one of what I want, and be on my way.
Now, in ESO, i can check chat spam, whisper an individual selling the motif I want, find out he wants 2k gold, chuckle to self, whisper another guy, find out he wants 800 gold, go to guild store one, find one for 600 gold, go to guild store two, find one for 1800 gold, to guild store three, can't find one at all, so on, and so forth.
You are right about one thing...knowledge is power. In ESO's economy, there is no knowledge. People are gouging the hell out of everyone else because they can, and THAT is why many of you are so vehemently opposed to the institution of a tried and true price regulator: the auction house.
I have yet to see a good example of how the introduction of an auction house has negatively impacted an MMO. I see all kinds of negatives with the system we have in this game, i can definitely tell you that.Edited by Drachenfier on April 11, 2014 4:26PM3 -
If an auction house were put in place then prices would rise on everything and the gold farmers and other people would have a field gouging everyone.0
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wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭
It's more like guiding them somewhere else since they are not willing to hold everyone's hand on the walk down the street to buy any item in the game for pennies from an AH.
Fan sites are one thing. Trading virtual game items is their ip.
Third party trading sites, one step closer to pay2win. It's only one week after the official launch. Much too early for ESO to go pay2win already.2 -
Kiash✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »If most players are unaware the economy has been ruined by the auction house, then it hasn't been ruined by the auction house. If the economy was in a shambles, most players would be aware.
Take ESO, for instance.
A couple of the same people complaining on a forum very few people use most does not make. Suffice to say, "most" people will be happily playing the game without ever knowing these forums or a few peoples complaints even exist.
Knowledge is power, and understanding how an auction house negatively affected every game it has been introduced in so far is key.
Polls on this very forum would indicate otherwise.
If motifs were for sale in GW2, I could go to the AH, buy the cheapest one of what I want, and be on my way.
Now, in ESO, i can check chat spam, whisper an individual selling the motif I want, find out he wants 2k gold, chuckle to self, whisper another guy, find out he wants 800 gold, go to guild store one, find one for 600 gold, go to guild store two, find one for 1800 gold, to guild store three, can't find one at all, so on, and so forth.
You are right about one thing...knowledge is power. In ESO's economy, there is no knowledge. People are gouging the hell out of everyone else because they can, and THAT is why many of you are so vehemently opposed to the institution of a tried and true price regulator: the auction house.
I have yet to see a good example of how the introduction of an auction house has negatively impacted an MMO. I see all kinds of negatives with the system we have in this game, i can definitely tell you that.
Then you have not read up on the negatives involved with AH trade and are not willing to. That's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion on something and I don't begrudge you that, but you will find this a hard sell when a majority of people don't want to deal with AH manipulation and the game itself is designed to promote social experiences rather than a single player game with other players running around ignoring each other.2 -
tawok✭✭✭Everyone who wants an AH just needs to join a trade guild or 5. You'll never want/need an AH again once you browse the Gstore of a few guilds with over 300 members.Leader of Stand by Your Van
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Hyll: Summer Sorcerer Extraordinaire1 -
Shimond✭✭✭✭GW2 is honestly the worst example you guys could be using. The AH is controlled by 10-20 people mass buying and selling and controlling the market whether the rest of the players realize it or not. GW2 is an example of why AH's fail, not why they succeed. Inflation + TP Barons have effectively neutered the GW2 economy just a few short years after release.
Yea and an AH in this game (with the megaserver setup) would be the exact same thing. Not to mention the technical undertaking. People who played GW2 at launch should recall all the problems with the TP - and that was something they had wanted in the game all along.Edited by Shimond on April 11, 2014 5:17PM0 -
Crumpy✭✭✭✭I like an AH in an MMO I find it a great part of the game to try and turn a buck by 'playing the markets'. I wish this game had one too.I lyke not this quill.1 -
wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭Everyone who wants an AH just needs to join a trade guild or 5. You'll never want/need an AH again once you browse the Gstore of a few guilds with over 300 members.
Only ZOS has the overall numbers but I get the semse that trading guilds aren't working that well for the big guild/pts players who want to 'cash out' before the big wave of levelers begin hitting VR5+.0
