So Zenimax recognise the lack of an AH is a serious mistsake?

Jeremy

Skjlvald wrote: »

Join a guild.

I have. Many. And it solved nothing.

So your solution is - to put it mildly - inadequate.

Hawtsauce

It doesnt have anything to do with being lazy.
The current system / interface is very clunky. Many people have limited time and prefer to not spend much of that time shopping or trying to sell items to create space in their bags or bank. I want to spend my time exploring, crafting, gaining levels and PvPing not spamming zone chat trying to buy pitch or sell a green staff. People like the AH not because they are lazy but because it is a fast, effecient 1 stop shop to buy and sell, no spamming chat, no traveling to get to the other person, no - " OK im in dungeon Ill be done in 15 min then we meet"
Do you think people who use cellphones/email/text messages are lazy because they dont walk across town to speak to the person face to face or are they lazy because they use a microwave to cook their food rather than a campfire ?
If you want to be social and make 20 new friends a day thats awesome and no one says you cant do that. I understand people have concerns about an AH but instead of a flat out NOOO , why not yes but we need to find ways to prevent this or make sure that the AH isnt abused to do that.
There is no reason this game cant have it all , have that old school feel , social interaction, enormous guilds AND simplistic, convient features that allow players to spend their time actually doing what they love to do.

Jeremy

Thalesianulathrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Players and their obsession with making money is the problem, not any lack of a wider auction house function. The developers know exactly what they're doing.

There are plenty of other MMOs out there that have auction houses. Anyone that thinks it's such an important factor in their overall enjoyment of a game I think should consider playing one of those instead.

It's not about making money for a lot of us. It's about having access to the materials we need to enjoy creating our characters to the furthest.

You might be satisfied running around in white crafted gear while hoarding all of your rare materials until you reach level 50 because the market place sucks. But I'm not, and would prefer an economy that actually lets me use my crafting to create greens and blues while I level up.

BrassRazoo

Auction Houses are just plain boring and do little to involve community interaction.
Let's just wait and see what develops and not just install a one stop shop that all other games have.
People are playing and progressing, trading and buying. This all happening with player only input and it's good to see.

Skjlvald

Jeremy wrote: »

Skjlvald wrote: »

Join a guild.

I have. Many. And it solved nothing.

So your solution is - to put it mildly - inadequate.

I don't know why people are so money hungry in this game that they complain about a lack of an AH in this game especially with all the other content in the game - Especially when guilds are cross faction and could feasibly let you amass a fortune and find what you need at the guild store.

My guess is this is to contain gold sellers/farmers by letting players run the buying/selling interface.

That being said. Find better guilds.

InF13RNo

Sarenia wrote: »

I'm totally not grammar police, but did anybody else find it an amusing irony that "mistake" was misspelled in the title?

He did it ok, for mist's sake! Haha

Jeremy

Skjlvald wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Skjlvald wrote: »

Join a guild.

I have. Many. And it solved nothing.

So your solution is - to put it mildly - inadequate.

I don't know why people are so money hungry in this game that they complain about a lack of an AH in this game especially with all the other content in the game - Especially when guilds are cross faction and could feasibly let you amass a fortune and find what you need at the guild store.

My guess is this is to contain gold sellers/farmers by letting players run the buying/selling interface.

That being said. Find better guilds.

Or they could just add an open auction house and fix the problem.

Jumping from guild to guild hoping to find a store that sells what you need is not a solution. It's just a headache and solves nothing.

We need solutions here. And your suggestion people need to just magically find great guilds that sell what they want to buy at a reasonable price is not one. It's pie in the sky.

Jeremy

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Auction Houses are just plain boring and do little to involve community interaction.
Let's just wait and see what develops and not just install a one stop shop that all other games have.
People are playing and progressing, trading and buying. This all happening with player only input and it's good to see.

Nothing is more boring than reading trade spam and flipping through an endless array of guild stores.

jircris11

Jeremy wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

i honestly like the game with no AH, only people i have seen complain about the anti AH system are people who are to damned lazy to sell items via zone while exploring.

I am getting tired of this argument that people who want a public auction house are lazy.

Just because we don't enjoy spamming zone chat with advertisements doesn't make us lazy.

I did not say to spam zone now did i? join a guild or post in zone every so often. at this moment I'm selling motifs and i post once every 5-10 mins. Heck i even try and make a game out of it (buy more then one get a discount) sadly the AH would not fit in ESO at all though opening a stall would be nice. or maybe allow guilds or players eventually buy shops? who knows honestly. at this moment there is no other way to buy or sell other then guilds/friends/zone.

Lalai

Jeremy wrote: »

It's not about making money for a lot of us. It's about having access to the materials we need to enjoy creating our characters to the furthest.

You might be satisfied running around in white crafted gear while hoarding all of your rare materials until you reach level 50 because the market place sucks. But I'm not, and would prefer an economy that actually lets me use my crafting to create greens and blues while I level up.

I know people who craft themselves greens and blues on a regular basis now, without an AH at all. I also constantly see trading and buying of the mats to do so in my trading guilds. The guild stores are admittedly a little less useful now than they should be, but that has more to do with a crappy interface.

A global AH with the same exact interface and search options we have now would very likely do just as crappy, if not worse as there would be even more stuff to sift through. To give the current system a fair shot before condemning it, we really need to get a better search interface first.

I must say I'm completely liking the guild economy stuff so far though. As others have mentioned I'm talking to people more and making more friends than I have in past MMOs through trading. We've also managed to keep gold sellers out of the economy enough that they're now trying to get invites into guilds.

There are benefits if people would just give the system a chance before claiming it to be the end all for the game.

Jeremy

Lalai wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

It's not about making money for a lot of us. It's about having access to the materials we need to enjoy creating our characters to the furthest.

You might be satisfied running around in white crafted gear while hoarding all of your rare materials until you reach level 50 because the market place sucks. But I'm not, and would prefer an economy that actually lets me use my crafting to create greens and blues while I level up.

I know people who craft themselves greens and blues on a regular basis now, without an AH at all..

Yes but what level are they? How many characters do they have?

It's extremely unreasonable to expect a new player to be find all of the rare materials on their own to craft green or blue gear as they level up.

A good economy is needed to support this. And currently there is not one. That needs to change. I shouldn't have to wait till I am level 50 or create a dozen characters with hirelings to effectively use my crafts.

Lalai

Jeremy wrote: »

Yes but what level are they? How many characters do they have?

It's extremely unreasonable to expect a new player to be find all of the rare materials on their own to craft green or blue gear as they level up.

A good economy is needed to support this. And currently there is not one. That needs to change.

They're various levels. Some of them are nearing 40's and 50's. They don't find all the stuff on their own. They are trading for it. A lot of them find partners to exchange materials with. Some of them just post in chat that they're looking to buy, and some buy stuff off the guild stores. No one person does it by themselves.

I am perfectly fine with an economy where I see a lot of active trades, and purchases going on. Prices have also been staying relatively the same across all five of the guilds I'm currently in (one social, one fishing, three trading). As long as things are moving, I'm happy.

Jeremy

Lalai wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Yes but what level are they? How many characters do they have?

It's extremely unreasonable to expect a new player to be find all of the rare materials on their own to craft green or blue gear as they level up.

A good economy is needed to support this. And currently there is not one. That needs to change.

They're various levels. Some of them are nearing 40's and 50's. They don't find all the stuff on their own. They are trading for it. A lot of them find partners to exchange materials with. Some of them just post in chat that they're looking to buy, and some buy stuff off the guild stores. No one person does it by themselves.

Exactly my point. They are level 40's and 50's.

The simple fact is the economy is too weak to support character progression on this game.

Players wait until the end to start seriously using their crafts due to unavailability on the market of rare materials. And that's a problem because that is the whole purpose of an economy - to gain things you can't obtain on your own. That is why currency exists.

And expecting people to make partnerships with others to get the materials they need - especially at lower levels - just isn't reasonable in my opinion. There needs to be a open market they can access that will get the job done for them. Otherwise they are just going to hoard all of their rare materials until the end, which effectively kills supply and stifles an already poorly constructed market place.

Hawtsauce

On top of all that - there is not nearly enough storage space to save all those materials

Lalai

Jeremy wrote: »

Exactly my point. They are level 40's and 50's.

The simple fact is the economy is too weak to support character progression on this game.

Players wait until the end to start seriously using their crafts due to unavailability on the market of rare materials. And that's a problem because that is the whole purpose of an economy - to gain things you can't obtain on your own. That is why currency exists.

And expecting people to make partnerships with others to get the materials they need - especially at lower levels - just isn't reasonable in my opinion. There needs to be a open market they can access that will get the job done for them. Otherwise they are just going to hoard all of their rare materials until the end, which effectively kills supply and stifles an already poorly constructed market place.

I said some, not all. I purposefully named off the higher level players. There are also level 15-20 players doing the same just fine. You can have your opinion, and I can have mine. I like people making partnerships and actually interacting. There are quite a lot of people that also post those mats up on the guild store, which doesn't really require any interaction. Even my smaller guilds seem to constantly have at least a few up. Finding them is usually a mess because you have to go through all the crafting recipes, and other junk on the guild store because we don't have a search function, but I'm confident Zeni is gonna fix that with time.

I'm just saying the economy is there now. You don't -have- to have a global AH to have an economy. You can get the things you want now, you're just not willing to do what's needed to get them (which is essentially interact with other players if your guild store doesn't have them).. I see the things going in zone chat in Glenumbra and Stormhaven frequently, so you likely wouldn't even have to do a shout for them.. just wait for someone selling and whisper them. You're making the choice not to do that though.

Drachenfier

Arunei wrote: »

So wanting to keep a healthy game economy and encourage player interaction is a serious mistake?

Don't people realize how AHs ruin an economy? Here, I'll give an example if your blind bias makes it hard to see anything else:

Rosen is, according to some of my Guildmates, extremely rare and worth an incredible amount of Gold (around 50k). Now let's say we had a AH and people started to sell their Rosen. Most people are selling it for 50k, but then someone decides to undercut the majority and sell for 45k to get buyers.

The next thing you know, everyone is selling their Rosen for 40k, 35k, 25k, 10k, until it becomes little more than a common ware, especially as people start unlocking the third rank for Hierling. This ruins the game economy by making rare things common and cheap, and nothing has any value when you can pick it up for a few thousand Gold.

Whereas it stands now, if you want Rosen you either have to deconstruct gold-level gear and HOPE you get one, get a Hierling and HOPE you get one, or look for people who are selling it. It's RARE, it encourages player interaction, and it encourages a healthy economy where things have actual worth.

People crying for an AH are just averse to doing any real work or putting any true effort into the game. They want everything now now now and want it instantly. Try actually DOING something that requires some effort and be proud of the end product when that work pays off.

Just as I suspected, those in favor of not having an AH are the ones that like to gouge the rest of the populace. When you have a centralized market, the prices are regulated by the players. When you don't, this crap here happens, and people charge enormous inflated amounts for items because the average buyer can't make a price comparison.

Jeremy

Lalai wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Exactly my point. They are level 40's and 50's.

The simple fact is the economy is too weak to support character progression on this game.

Players wait until the end to start seriously using their crafts due to unavailability on the market of rare materials. And that's a problem because that is the whole purpose of an economy - to gain things you can't obtain on your own. That is why currency exists.

And expecting people to make partnerships with others to get the materials they need - especially at lower levels - just isn't reasonable in my opinion. There needs to be a open market they can access that will get the job done for them. Otherwise they are just going to hoard all of their rare materials until the end, which effectively kills supply and stifles an already poorly constructed market place.

I said some, not all. I purposefully named off the higher level players. There are also level 15-20 players doing the same just fine. You can have your opinion, .

I have a really hard time believing you that you know level 15 players who are taking the time to craft green and blue sets for themselves. Not unless they have other characters supporting them. Because the time it would take to collect all of those rare materials on their own would be ridiculous. But I'm not sure what you mean when you say doing just fine.

And I never said you can't do just fine in this economy. You can run around in white gear you crafted with materials you found yourself and be just fine. But the purpose of an economy is - like I said - to obtain things you can't reasonably obtain on your own. And this economy is so weak and poorly made it is not effective at doing that.

No one is saying you can't be self sufficient on this game. But some of us would actually like to see an economy that works so they can improve their character beyond their normal means. That is, after-all, why an economy even exists in the first place.

Lalai

Jeremy wrote: »

I have a really hard time believing you that you know level 15 players who are taking the time to craft green and blue sets for themselves. Not unless they have other characters supporting them. Because the time it would take to collect all of those rare materials on their own would be ridiculous. But I'm not sure what you mean when you say doing just fine.

And I never said you can't do just fine in this economy. You can run around in white gear you crafted with materials you found yourself and be just fine. But the purpose of an economy is - like I said - to obtain things you can't reasonably obtain on your own. And this economy is so weak and poorly made it is not effective at doing that.

No one is saying you can't be self sufficient on this game. But some of us would actually like to see an economy that works so they can improve their character beyond their normal means. That is, after-all, why an economy even exists in the first place.

The economy appears to be working great to me, and I love it how it is for multiple reasons (outside of the guild store needing better search options). I can't really put it anymore simply than that. I'm sorry you are unwilling to use the available resources to find/buy/trade the items you need. I know many, many people who do though, and absolutely do not find everything they need all on their own, nor horde their materials. Otherwise, you're right, they wouldn't be able to craft themselves new blue or green gear every few 5 or so levels. Those people are selling their clothing mats and buying blacksmithing ones, and essentially focusing on the rare materials for one or two crafts they're using to make their own gear. Upgrading on a regular basis is completely possible when you do that.

Jeremy

Lalai wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I have a really hard time believing you that you know level 15 players who are taking the time to craft green and blue sets for themselves. Not unless they have other characters supporting them. Because the time it would take to collect all of those rare materials on their own would be ridiculous. But I'm not sure what you mean when you say doing just fine.

And I never said you can't do just fine in this economy. You can run around in white gear you crafted with materials you found yourself and be just fine. But the purpose of an economy is - like I said - to obtain things you can't reasonably obtain on your own. And this economy is so weak and poorly made it is not effective at doing that.

No one is saying you can't be self sufficient on this game. But some of us would actually like to see an economy that works so they can improve their character beyond their normal means. That is, after-all, why an economy even exists in the first place.

The economy appears to be working great to me, and I love it how it is for multiple reasons (outside of the guild store needing better search options). I can't really put it anymore simply than that. I'm sorry you are unwilling to use the available resources to find/buy/trade the items you need..

Again, you are not reading me correctly.

I have taken advantage of available resources. I have tried many different trade guilds. I have even taken time to observe zone chat in detail.

The problem isn't that I haven't taken advantage of the available resources. The problem is that the available resources - to put it bluntly - suck.

vencibushy

Arunei wrote: »

So wanting to keep a healthy game economy and encourage player interaction is a serious mistake?

Don't people realize how AHs ruin an economy? Here, I'll give an example if your blind bias makes it hard to see anything else:

Rosen is, according to some of my Guildmates, extremely rare and worth an incredible amount of Gold (around 50k). Now let's say we had a AH and people started to sell their Rosen. Most people are selling it for 50k, but then someone decides to undercut the majority and sell for 45k to get buyers.

The next thing you know, everyone is selling their Rosen for 40k, 35k, 25k, 10k, until it becomes little more than a common ware, especially as people start unlocking the third rank for Hierling. This ruins the game economy by making rare things common and cheap, and nothing has any value when you can pick it up for a few thousand Gold.

Whereas it stands now, if you want Rosen you either have to deconstruct gold-level gear and HOPE you get one, get a Hierling and HOPE you get one, or look for people who are selling it. It's RARE, it encourages player interaction, and it encourages a healthy economy where things have actual worth.

People crying for an AH are just averse to doing any real work or putting any true effort into the game. They want everything now now now and want it instantly. Try actually DOING something that requires some effort and be proud of the end product when that work pays off.

All of the above is totally incorrect. The above opinion is in contradiction to any normal economic theory and behavior.

If you have 5 people in a global market selling Rosen for 50k and this materials stay unsold for weeks then this means this price is INFLATED! So at some point some guy will show up and let it go for 45k. If it sells then that's the price balance formed by those thing called SUPPLY AND DEMAND! If 1000 people sell Rosin for 50k and no one buy then you bet the price will dip fast to the balance point. Again supply and demand. Rare things could never be common and cheap. If they don't circulate on the market then then they will remain expensive and precious.

What you want is limited market so that you could sell your stuff at exorbitant prices and have no actual competition.

Oh yes real markets include competition.

And just how does you guildmates set the price at 50k? The first one to obtain Rosen asked 50k and the other cheerleaders admitted it's a fair one? Does anybody actually buys those or they simply stay unsold?

And what would happen if I joined your guild and drop Rosen at GS for 20k? Would I get kicked out for undermining your "friendly market"?

More over, how do you know those few people don't have a secret pact to sell Rosen for 50k only and not a dime less?

And don't give my that pastoral BS about guild stores promoting player interactions and stuff. 90% of the players have one actual guild, and 4 other they don't give a flying f*ck about(mute chats).
Wha player do with the current system is the same as with the AH. Go to NPC, list your item, GTFO.

And yet another example of "player interaction" aka zone spam:

P1 - zone WTS [Uber Cool Flame Staff of GOD] - 500G
P2 - whisper COD it to me pls
P1 - whisper OK
P2 - whisper TY
P1 - whisper TY (so long sucker)

czakobogdaneb17_ESO

All the game needs a a bit better search function in the guild store. Like search by name or more sub-categories.

Like for Materials we should have:
- alchemy
- provisioning
- woodworking
- etc
With the possibility to sort by grade, price etc.

Hawtsauce

^ true

Jadeviper1974

Jeremy wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

i honestly like the game with no AH, only people i have seen complain about the anti AH system are people who are to damned lazy to sell items via zone while exploring.

I am getting tired of this argument that people who want a public auction house are lazy.

Just because we don't enjoy spamming zone chat with advertisements doesn't make us lazy.

Which you don't actually have to do. You could join guilds, be patient and use the guild store. Central AH's destroy the economy because of Gold Sellers and the like. Also, major programming would have to be done to bring in a central AH. You are choosing to spam Zone Chat and then coming to the forums to whine. Every time I hear someone say that they want a central AH all I hear is; "Hey, this game isn't enough like WoW so it sucks." Yea, that is what we need and economy like WoW has. Geez, get over it.

No Central AH, period.

That's my opinion, if you agree or disagree, well I couldn't care less either way.

Jeremy

Jadeviper1974 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

i honestly like the game with no AH, only people i have seen complain about the anti AH system are people who are to damned lazy to sell items via zone while exploring.

I am getting tired of this argument that people who want a public auction house are lazy.

Just because we don't enjoy spamming zone chat with advertisements doesn't make us lazy.

Which you don't actually have to do. You could join guilds, be patient and use the guild store. .

I have joined guilds. Many of them. Several of them near or at max capacity. And the stores in them sucked.

Again, this isn't about us being lazy. This is simply about us wanting a functional and competitive economy that works. Not one that has jump through endless and annoying hoops with no benefit.

And again with this WoW reference. This has nothing to do with WoW.

World of Warcraft did not invent free and open markets.

SoulSeekerUSA

KerinKor wrote: »

They must do, as they're advertising a third-party app. in their Twitter feed to help fill the gap:

"Elder Scrolls Online ‏@TESOnline 15h

Looking to buy, sell, and trade in-game goods and services in #ESO? Then @TesoElite's new marketplace is for you: http://www.tesoelite.com/forums/threads/the-marketplace-how-to.2108/ …"

HAHA, they want us to leave the game and post our items on a public forums, you have got to be kidding me? This no AH thing is a game killer and if they do not add one the game is doomed.

Jeremy

SoulSeekerUSA wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

They must do, as they're advertising a third-party app. in their Twitter feed to help fill the gap:

"Elder Scrolls Online ‏@TESOnline 15h

Looking to buy, sell, and trade in-game goods and services in #ESO? Then @TesoElite's new marketplace is for you: http://www.tesoelite.com/forums/threads/the-marketplace-how-to.2108/ …"

HAHA, they want us to leave the game and post our items on a public forums, you have got to be kidding me? This no AH thing is a game killer and if they do not add one the game is doomed.

I agree.

It's a serious issue and needs to be addressed promptly, else it's going to hurt the game in a big way. It may not doom it completely, but will definitely have a negative impact.

Gedalya

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tesoelite is not ran by ZOS is it?

It says on Tesoelite site they are not associated with ZO or Bethesda (fine print at bottom).

Hawtsauce

@Jadeviper1974 "Every time I hear someone say that they want a central AH all I hear is; "Hey, this game isn't enough like WoW so it sucks." Yea, that is what we need and economy like WoW has. Geez, get over it."

If thats all you choose to hear when people say they would like an AH thats YOUR problem not mine, sounds like maybe you are a disgruntled ex-WoW fanboy.

MANY successful modern MMOs have AH ... hmmm in fact many more have them than do not. And not all of them are plagued by a 'bad economy' or dominated by gold sellers. GW2 has a wonderful AH

( gold farmers are no issue in that game, maybe because Arenanet has a system in place where you can trade gems/gold back and forth, buy from ingame store or sell on AH )

SadisticSavior

KerinKor wrote: »

SO ZENIMAX RECOGNISE THE LACK OF AN AH IS A SERIOUS MISTSAKE?

No, I think this was a deliberate decision they made, and I honestly don't expect them to change it, even though I'd like them to.

They do not want an easy access server-wide market, because they think it will make the game less fun. They've stated this in interviews. The current system was very deliberate.

Kiash

Stay strong ZOS, don't cave to the AH barons that want to control the in game economy. Keep it by the players for the players rather than for people who can stand at the AH 24/7.