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Pulse Ganker and Shattered Mythic
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TheAwesomeChimpanzee✭✭✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.
These people have started running as a group for when their already disgusting 35k+ solo gank isn't cutting it.
One person chains you from max range/stealth, the rest pulse you midair so you die before you can do literally anything about it. It's abusive plain and simple, and ZOS's failure to immediately adjust it as a preventative measure is pretty insulting. Any other game that has PVP would've shut this down inside a week as part of routine balance maintenance.
Said the ball group player
There is more counterplay to ballgrouping than ever before. This nonsense has absolutely none, and the comparison shows a deep unseriousness that is frankly completely invalidating to every argument you're making in this thread.
It is extremely easy to outrange, outsiege, outlast, and evict, a ballgroup. Max range gank squads backed by a troll endlessly spamming chains gives you absolutely no counterplay. It's abusive plain and simple. Furthermore, the level of individually targeted griefing that some of the players doing this are engaging in (including provable, documented stream sniping) has full on crossed into ToS violating targeted harassment.
Incorrect. I have explained how to counter it multiple times throughout this thread.
Once again, ball group players who almost never set foot outside of their 12-man raid are trying to get anything that actually pressures or counters them nerfed into the ground, while completely ignoring their own crutches.
You can call it “no counterplay” all you want, but that does not make it true. The counterplay has already been explained. The issue is that you do not like the counterplay because it is one of the few things that can actually disrupt the playstyle you benefit from.
"Punishing them when they overcommit" is not counterplay. They stay at max range, with streak to keep them safe, and target a single person and delete them midair when that person is finally chained by their dedicated chain spam bot - again, from max range. THERE IS NO ACTUAL COUNTER PLAY TO THIS. When they can delete 35k health with full raid buffs before you hit the ground. If anything ballgroup players are the LEAST impacted by this because we actually have the health and buffs to have a chance at survival. The only reason you even think that the non-counterplay you've described works is because you're simply not their primary target. That could easily change at their whim. The mechanics they are abusing are broken, plain and simple without actual, meaningful, reactive counterplay. Your insistence to the contrary is straight up pants-on-head.
Have you actually tried engaging that squad in an even fight, or are you trying to fight them while also tanking the entire faction frontline?
Yeah, thought so.
Once again, this just comes down to ball group players feeling entitled to their 12v80 playstyle and calling anything that punishes it “no counterplay.”
"Fight them fair" lmfao. Actually lmfao. At this point, I can only assume you're one of the people engaging in this abuse with a vested interest in defending it.
And yes, I am being as fair as I can be from the perspective of someone who enjoys pulse ganking and openly admits the build is overtuned. I also ball group myself, so I am not speaking from some blind hatred of the playstyle. The difference is that I can acknowledge when something I use is abusive or too strong, while you seem completely unwilling to apply that same standard to your own playstyle.
Edited by TheAwesomeChimpanzee on May 22, 2026 9:03PM6 -
Sedare38✭✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.
These people have started running as a group for when their already disgusting 35k+ solo gank isn't cutting it.
One person chains you from max range/stealth, the rest pulse you midair so you die before you can do literally anything about it. It's abusive plain and simple, and ZOS's failure to immediately adjust it as a preventative measure is pretty insulting. Any other game that has PVP would've shut this down inside a week as part of routine balance maintenance.
Said the ball group player
There is more counterplay to ballgrouping than ever before. This nonsense has absolutely none, and the comparison shows a deep unseriousness that is frankly completely invalidating to every argument you're making in this thread.
It is extremely easy to outrange, outsiege, outlast, and evict, a ballgroup. Max range gank squads backed by a troll endlessly spamming chains gives you absolutely no counterplay. It's abusive plain and simple. Furthermore, the level of individually targeted griefing that some of the players doing this are engaging in (including provable, documented stream sniping) has full on crossed into ToS violating targeted harassment.
lol, not when a ball group continually puts up 50K+ damage shields over and over and over again for all its members . . .
And whoever mentioned this gank build desyncing all the time, I've experienced nothing but desyncs at the hands of DKs since their update. I've no idea what's going on there, but it's ridic. Nearly all my desyncs have been from them.3 -
acastanza_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.
These people have started running as a group for when their already disgusting 35k+ solo gank isn't cutting it.
One person chains you from max range/stealth, the rest pulse you midair so you die before you can do literally anything about it. It's abusive plain and simple, and ZOS's failure to immediately adjust it as a preventative measure is pretty insulting. Any other game that has PVP would've shut this down inside a week as part of routine balance maintenance.
Said the ball group player
There is more counterplay to ballgrouping than ever before. This nonsense has absolutely none, and the comparison shows a deep unseriousness that is frankly completely invalidating to every argument you're making in this thread.
It is extremely easy to outrange, outsiege, outlast, and evict, a ballgroup. Max range gank squads backed by a troll endlessly spamming chains gives you absolutely no counterplay. It's abusive plain and simple. Furthermore, the level of individually targeted griefing that some of the players doing this are engaging in (including provable, documented stream sniping) has full on crossed into ToS violating targeted harassment.
Incorrect. I have explained how to counter it multiple times throughout this thread.
Once again, ball group players who almost never set foot outside of their 12-man raid are trying to get anything that actually pressures or counters them nerfed into the ground, while completely ignoring their own crutches.
You can call it “no counterplay” all you want, but that does not make it true. The counterplay has already been explained. The issue is that you do not like the counterplay because it is one of the few things that can actually disrupt the playstyle you benefit from.
"Punishing them when they overcommit" is not counterplay. They stay at max range, with streak to keep them safe, and target a single person and delete them midair when that person is finally chained by their dedicated chain spam bot - again, from max range. THERE IS NO ACTUAL COUNTER PLAY TO THIS. When they can delete 35k health with full raid buffs before you hit the ground. If anything ballgroup players are the LEAST impacted by this because we actually have the health and buffs to have a chance at survival. The only reason you even think that the non-counterplay you've described works is because you're simply not their primary target. That could easily change at their whim. The mechanics they are abusing are broken, plain and simple without actual, meaningful, reactive counterplay. Your insistence to the contrary is straight up pants-on-head.
Have you actually tried engaging that squad in an even fight, or are you trying to fight them while also tanking the entire faction frontline?
Yeah, thought so.
Once again, this just comes down to ball group players feeling entitled to their 12v80 playstyle and calling anything that punishes it “no counterplay.”
"Fight them fair" lmfao. Actually lmfao. At this point, I can only assume you're one of the people engaging in this abuse with a vested interest in defending it.
And yes, I am being as fair as I can be from the perspective of someone who enjoys pulse ganking and openly admits the build is overtuned. I also ball group myself, so I am not speaking from some blind hatred of the playstyle. The difference is that I can acknowledge when something I use is abusive or too strong, while you seem completely unwilling to apply that same standard to your own playstyle.
By all means, continue to pretend that I haven't repeatedly called for nerfs for those exact problem areas for the ballgroup playstyle. But this is NOT a thread about that. This is a thread about the abusive uncounterable gank meta, not ballgrouping. Continuing to whatabout ballgroups to deflect is wholly inappropriate for the thread.1 -
RaidingTraiding✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.
These people have started running as a group for when their already disgusting 35k+ solo gank isn't cutting it.
One person chains you from max range/stealth, the rest pulse you midair so you die before you can do literally anything about it. It's abusive plain and simple, and ZOS's failure to immediately adjust it as a preventative measure is pretty insulting. Any other game that has PVP would've shut this down inside a week as part of routine balance maintenance.
Said the ball group player
There is more counterplay to ballgrouping than ever before. This nonsense has absolutely none, and the comparison shows a deep unseriousness that is frankly completely invalidating to every argument you're making in this thread.
It is extremely easy to outrange, outsiege, outlast, and evict, a ballgroup. Max range gank squads backed by a troll endlessly spamming chains gives you absolutely no counterplay. It's abusive plain and simple. Furthermore, the level of individually targeted griefing that some of the players doing this are engaging in (including provable, documented stream sniping) has full on crossed into ToS violating targeted harassment.
lol, not when a ball group continually puts up 50K+ damage shields over and over and over again for all its members . . .
And whoever mentioned this gank build desyncing all the time, I've experienced nothing but desyncs at the hands of DKs since their update. I've no idea what's going on there, but it's ridic. Nearly all my desyncs have been from them.
I have noticed some desync from dks, but most of the desync is definitely coming from hits from stealth. Also I'm not sure how you can tell it's desync when you build a 20k hp glass canon, of course you're going to die instantly to dks who can prob one shot your build with a whip, which is also a problem.0 -
Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hear me out guys, I think I have the solution to this pulse ganker/ball groups debate
1. Nerf pulse gankers to the ground
2. Nerf ball groups to the ground
enjoy pvp.
8 -
RaidingTraiding✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.
These people have started running as a group for when their already disgusting 35k+ solo gank isn't cutting it.
One person chains you from max range/stealth, the rest pulse you midair so you die before you can do literally anything about it. It's abusive plain and simple, and ZOS's failure to immediately adjust it as a preventative measure is pretty insulting. Any other game that has PVP would've shut this down inside a week as part of routine balance maintenance.
Said the ball group player
There is more counterplay to ballgrouping than ever before. This nonsense has absolutely none, and the comparison shows a deep unseriousness that is frankly completely invalidating to every argument you're making in this thread.
It is extremely easy to outrange, outsiege, outlast, and evict, a ballgroup. Max range gank squads backed by a troll endlessly spamming chains gives you absolutely no counterplay. It's abusive plain and simple. Furthermore, the level of individually targeted griefing that some of the players doing this are engaging in (including provable, documented stream sniping) has full on crossed into ToS violating targeted harassment.
Incorrect. I have explained how to counter it multiple times throughout this thread.
Once again, ball group players who almost never set foot outside of their 12-man raid are trying to get anything that actually pressures or counters them nerfed into the ground, while completely ignoring their own crutches.
You can call it “no counterplay” all you want, but that does not make it true. The counterplay has already been explained. The issue is that you do not like the counterplay because it is one of the few things that can actually disrupt the playstyle you benefit from.
"Punishing them when they overcommit" is not counterplay. They stay at max range, with streak to keep them safe, and target a single person and delete them midair when that person is finally chained by their dedicated chain spam bot - again, from max range. THERE IS NO ACTUAL COUNTER PLAY TO THIS. When they can delete 35k health with full raid buffs before you hit the ground. If anything ballgroup players are the LEAST impacted by this because we actually have the health and buffs to have a chance at survival. The only reason you even think that the non-counterplay you've described works is because you're simply not their primary target. That could easily change at their whim. The mechanics they are abusing are broken, plain and simple without actual, meaningful, reactive counterplay. Your insistence to the contrary is straight up pants-on-head.
Have you actually tried engaging that squad in an even fight, or are you trying to fight them while also tanking the entire faction frontline?
Yeah, thought so.
Once again, this just comes down to ball group players feeling entitled to their 12v80 playstyle and calling anything that punishes it “no counterplay.”
"Fight them fair" lmfao. Actually lmfao. At this point, I can only assume you're one of the people engaging in this abuse with a vested interest in defending it.
And yes, I am being as fair as I can be from the perspective of someone who enjoys pulse ganking and openly admits the build is overtuned. I also ball group myself, so I am not speaking from some blind hatred of the playstyle. The difference is that I can acknowledge when something I use is abusive or too strong, while you seem completely unwilling to apply that same standard to your own playstyle.
By all means, continue to pretend that I haven't repeatedly called for nerfs for those exact problem areas for the ballgroup playstyle. But this is NOT a thread about that. This is a thread about the abusive uncounterable gank meta, not ballgrouping. Continuing to whatabout ballgroups to deflect is wholly inappropriate for the thread.
Yeah I agree, this thread is being constantly bombarded by nerf ball group comments. It doesn't matter if you add in a short sentence at the end saying you acknowledge pulse ganking is a problem, it's still derailing and detracting from the topic. There are plenty of nerf ball group threads on the forums, don't need every other comment saying the same thing for a whole 2 or 3 pages.Edited by RaidingTraiding on May 23, 2026 3:58PM1 -
TheAwesomeChimpanzee✭✭✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.
These people have started running as a group for when their already disgusting 35k+ solo gank isn't cutting it.
One person chains you from max range/stealth, the rest pulse you midair so you die before you can do literally anything about it. It's abusive plain and simple, and ZOS's failure to immediately adjust it as a preventative measure is pretty insulting. Any other game that has PVP would've shut this down inside a week as part of routine balance maintenance.
Said the ball group player
There is more counterplay to ballgrouping than ever before. This nonsense has absolutely none, and the comparison shows a deep unseriousness that is frankly completely invalidating to every argument you're making in this thread.
It is extremely easy to outrange, outsiege, outlast, and evict, a ballgroup. Max range gank squads backed by a troll endlessly spamming chains gives you absolutely no counterplay. It's abusive plain and simple. Furthermore, the level of individually targeted griefing that some of the players doing this are engaging in (including provable, documented stream sniping) has full on crossed into ToS violating targeted harassment.
Incorrect. I have explained how to counter it multiple times throughout this thread.
Once again, ball group players who almost never set foot outside of their 12-man raid are trying to get anything that actually pressures or counters them nerfed into the ground, while completely ignoring their own crutches.
You can call it “no counterplay” all you want, but that does not make it true. The counterplay has already been explained. The issue is that you do not like the counterplay because it is one of the few things that can actually disrupt the playstyle you benefit from.
"Punishing them when they overcommit" is not counterplay. They stay at max range, with streak to keep them safe, and target a single person and delete them midair when that person is finally chained by their dedicated chain spam bot - again, from max range. THERE IS NO ACTUAL COUNTER PLAY TO THIS. When they can delete 35k health with full raid buffs before you hit the ground. If anything ballgroup players are the LEAST impacted by this because we actually have the health and buffs to have a chance at survival. The only reason you even think that the non-counterplay you've described works is because you're simply not their primary target. That could easily change at their whim. The mechanics they are abusing are broken, plain and simple without actual, meaningful, reactive counterplay. Your insistence to the contrary is straight up pants-on-head.
Have you actually tried engaging that squad in an even fight, or are you trying to fight them while also tanking the entire faction frontline?
Yeah, thought so.
Once again, this just comes down to ball group players feeling entitled to their 12v80 playstyle and calling anything that punishes it “no counterplay.”
"Fight them fair" lmfao. Actually lmfao. At this point, I can only assume you're one of the people engaging in this abuse with a vested interest in defending it.
And yes, I am being as fair as I can be from the perspective of someone who enjoys pulse ganking and openly admits the build is overtuned. I also ball group myself, so I am not speaking from some blind hatred of the playstyle. The difference is that I can acknowledge when something I use is abusive or too strong, while you seem completely unwilling to apply that same standard to your own playstyle.
By all means, continue to pretend that I haven't repeatedly called for nerfs for those exact problem areas for the ballgroup playstyle. But this is NOT a thread about that. This is a thread about the abusive uncounterable gank meta, not ballgrouping. Continuing to whatabout ballgroups to deflect is wholly inappropriate for the thread.
By all means, continue pretending you are not asking for an all-or-nothing nerf to a playstyle that is capable of shutting you down, while also claiming there are more counters to ball groups than ever before, which is simply not true.
You can try to frame this as off-topic all you want, but the reason ball groups keep being brought up is because the loudest voices calling for this playstyle to be deleted are the same players who refuse to acknowledge how overtuned their own playstyle has been for years.
7 -
TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.
These people have started running as a group for when their already disgusting 35k+ solo gank isn't cutting it.
One person chains you from max range/stealth, the rest pulse you midair so you die before you can do literally anything about it. It's abusive plain and simple, and ZOS's failure to immediately adjust it as a preventative measure is pretty insulting. Any other game that has PVP would've shut this down inside a week as part of routine balance maintenance.
Said the ball group player
There is more counterplay to ballgrouping than ever before. This nonsense has absolutely none, and the comparison shows a deep unseriousness that is frankly completely invalidating to every argument you're making in this thread.
It is extremely easy to outrange, outsiege, outlast, and evict, a ballgroup. Max range gank squads backed by a troll endlessly spamming chains gives you absolutely no counterplay. It's abusive plain and simple. Furthermore, the level of individually targeted griefing that some of the players doing this are engaging in (including provable, documented stream sniping) has full on crossed into ToS violating targeted harassment.
Incorrect. I have explained how to counter it multiple times throughout this thread.
Once again, ball group players who almost never set foot outside of their 12-man raid are trying to get anything that actually pressures or counters them nerfed into the ground, while completely ignoring their own crutches.
You can call it “no counterplay” all you want, but that does not make it true. The counterplay has already been explained. The issue is that you do not like the counterplay because it is one of the few things that can actually disrupt the playstyle you benefit from.
"Punishing them when they overcommit" is not counterplay. They stay at max range, with streak to keep them safe, and target a single person and delete them midair when that person is finally chained by their dedicated chain spam bot - again, from max range. THERE IS NO ACTUAL COUNTER PLAY TO THIS. When they can delete 35k health with full raid buffs before you hit the ground. If anything ballgroup players are the LEAST impacted by this because we actually have the health and buffs to have a chance at survival. The only reason you even think that the non-counterplay you've described works is because you're simply not their primary target. That could easily change at their whim. The mechanics they are abusing are broken, plain and simple without actual, meaningful, reactive counterplay. Your insistence to the contrary is straight up pants-on-head.
Have you actually tried engaging that squad in an even fight, or are you trying to fight them while also tanking the entire faction frontline?
Yeah, thought so.
Once again, this just comes down to ball group players feeling entitled to their 12v80 playstyle and calling anything that punishes it “no counterplay.”
"Fight them fair" lmfao. Actually lmfao. At this point, I can only assume you're one of the people engaging in this abuse with a vested interest in defending it.
And yes, I am being as fair as I can be from the perspective of someone who enjoys pulse ganking and openly admits the build is overtuned. I also ball group myself, so I am not speaking from some blind hatred of the playstyle. The difference is that I can acknowledge when something I use is abusive or too strong, while you seem completely unwilling to apply that same standard to your own playstyle.
By all means, continue to pretend that I haven't repeatedly called for nerfs for those exact problem areas for the ballgroup playstyle. But this is NOT a thread about that. This is a thread about the abusive uncounterable gank meta, not ballgrouping. Continuing to whatabout ballgroups to deflect is wholly inappropriate for the thread.
By all means, continue pretending you are not asking for an all-or-nothing nerf to a playstyle that is capable of shutting you down, while also claiming there are more counters to ball groups than ever before, which is simply not true.
You can try to frame this as off-topic all you want, but the reason ball groups keep being brought up is because the loudest voices calling for this playstyle to be deleted are the same players who refuse to acknowledge how overtuned their own playstyle has been for years.
As the OP, i dont play cyrodiil. It started showing up in my BGs and was crazy overpowered from anything i had seen.1 -
TheAwesomeChimpanzee✭✭✭✭✭SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.
These people have started running as a group for when their already disgusting 35k+ solo gank isn't cutting it.
One person chains you from max range/stealth, the rest pulse you midair so you die before you can do literally anything about it. It's abusive plain and simple, and ZOS's failure to immediately adjust it as a preventative measure is pretty insulting. Any other game that has PVP would've shut this down inside a week as part of routine balance maintenance.
Said the ball group player
There is more counterplay to ballgrouping than ever before. This nonsense has absolutely none, and the comparison shows a deep unseriousness that is frankly completely invalidating to every argument you're making in this thread.
It is extremely easy to outrange, outsiege, outlast, and evict, a ballgroup. Max range gank squads backed by a troll endlessly spamming chains gives you absolutely no counterplay. It's abusive plain and simple. Furthermore, the level of individually targeted griefing that some of the players doing this are engaging in (including provable, documented stream sniping) has full on crossed into ToS violating targeted harassment.
Incorrect. I have explained how to counter it multiple times throughout this thread.
Once again, ball group players who almost never set foot outside of their 12-man raid are trying to get anything that actually pressures or counters them nerfed into the ground, while completely ignoring their own crutches.
You can call it “no counterplay” all you want, but that does not make it true. The counterplay has already been explained. The issue is that you do not like the counterplay because it is one of the few things that can actually disrupt the playstyle you benefit from.
"Punishing them when they overcommit" is not counterplay. They stay at max range, with streak to keep them safe, and target a single person and delete them midair when that person is finally chained by their dedicated chain spam bot - again, from max range. THERE IS NO ACTUAL COUNTER PLAY TO THIS. When they can delete 35k health with full raid buffs before you hit the ground. If anything ballgroup players are the LEAST impacted by this because we actually have the health and buffs to have a chance at survival. The only reason you even think that the non-counterplay you've described works is because you're simply not their primary target. That could easily change at their whim. The mechanics they are abusing are broken, plain and simple without actual, meaningful, reactive counterplay. Your insistence to the contrary is straight up pants-on-head.
Have you actually tried engaging that squad in an even fight, or are you trying to fight them while also tanking the entire faction frontline?
Yeah, thought so.
Once again, this just comes down to ball group players feeling entitled to their 12v80 playstyle and calling anything that punishes it “no counterplay.”
"Fight them fair" lmfao. Actually lmfao. At this point, I can only assume you're one of the people engaging in this abuse with a vested interest in defending it.
And yes, I am being as fair as I can be from the perspective of someone who enjoys pulse ganking and openly admits the build is overtuned. I also ball group myself, so I am not speaking from some blind hatred of the playstyle. The difference is that I can acknowledge when something I use is abusive or too strong, while you seem completely unwilling to apply that same standard to your own playstyle.
By all means, continue to pretend that I haven't repeatedly called for nerfs for those exact problem areas for the ballgroup playstyle. But this is NOT a thread about that. This is a thread about the abusive uncounterable gank meta, not ballgrouping. Continuing to whatabout ballgroups to deflect is wholly inappropriate for the thread.
By all means, continue pretending you are not asking for an all-or-nothing nerf to a playstyle that is capable of shutting you down, while also claiming there are more counters to ball groups than ever before, which is simply not true.
You can try to frame this as off-topic all you want, but the reason ball groups keep being brought up is because the loudest voices calling for this playstyle to be deleted are the same players who refuse to acknowledge how overtuned their own playstyle has been for years.
As the OP, i dont play cyrodiil. It started showing up in my BGs and was crazy overpowered from anything i had seen.
And it is a reasonable thing to post about, and I am not denying that the current version of the build is overtuned, especially if it is showing up in BGs and deleting people with very little room to react.
My issue is not with people asking for adjustments. My issue is with players asking for the complete abolition of a playstyle that I, and many others, have been enjoying for years in different forms. Pulse ganking existed long before the current version became this oppressive. The problem is the current burst interaction, not the entire concept of the build.
There is a difference between saying “this needs to be toned down” and saying “delete the playstyle entirely.” I am fine with the first one. I am not fine with the second. Target the specific overperforming pieces, reduce the absurd upfront burst, and make it less oppressive in BGs, but do not nuke an entire playstyle into the ground just because subclassing pushed it too far.
And yes, part of the issue is that certain players are completely unwilling to adapt their already overtuned playstyle to the meta. We saw the same thing with Azureblight. Instead of adapting or asking for an adjustment, they demanded that anything capable of pressuring them be removed instead of nerfing it to a healthy state.
5 -
gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »Hear me out guys, I think I have the solution to this pulse ganker/ball groups debate
1. Nerf pulse gankers to the ground
2. Nerf ball groups to the ground
enjoy pvp.
Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave?PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden4 -
Oblivion_Protocol✭✭✭✭✭
✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »But this is NOT a thread about that. This is a thread about the abusive uncounterable gank meta, not ballgrouping. Continuing to whatabout ballgroups to deflect is wholly inappropriate for the thread.
The supposedly “uncounterable” gank meta came about mostly because of near unkillable ball groups. These groups have been complained about for nearly half a decade by literally thousands of players, and have only gotten stronger with the occasional token attempt to rein them in that ends up backfiring or getting walked back.
Meanwhile, a playstyle that got strong in the last month gets a “well take a look at this” message from the higher-ups because a couple dozen people are mad that it kills them.
You don’t balance a game by nuking effective playstyles that serve as an alternative to a meta that has terrorized players for years. You encourage variety among builds that can compete. And that’s what we’re starting to see.6 -
RaidingTraiding✭✭✭TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.
These people have started running as a group for when their already disgusting 35k+ solo gank isn't cutting it.
One person chains you from max range/stealth, the rest pulse you midair so you die before you can do literally anything about it. It's abusive plain and simple, and ZOS's failure to immediately adjust it as a preventative measure is pretty insulting. Any other game that has PVP would've shut this down inside a week as part of routine balance maintenance.
Said the ball group player
There is more counterplay to ballgrouping than ever before. This nonsense has absolutely none, and the comparison shows a deep unseriousness that is frankly completely invalidating to every argument you're making in this thread.
It is extremely easy to outrange, outsiege, outlast, and evict, a ballgroup. Max range gank squads backed by a troll endlessly spamming chains gives you absolutely no counterplay. It's abusive plain and simple. Furthermore, the level of individually targeted griefing that some of the players doing this are engaging in (including provable, documented stream sniping) has full on crossed into ToS violating targeted harassment.
Incorrect. I have explained how to counter it multiple times throughout this thread.
Once again, ball group players who almost never set foot outside of their 12-man raid are trying to get anything that actually pressures or counters them nerfed into the ground, while completely ignoring their own crutches.
You can call it “no counterplay” all you want, but that does not make it true. The counterplay has already been explained. The issue is that you do not like the counterplay because it is one of the few things that can actually disrupt the playstyle you benefit from.
"Punishing them when they overcommit" is not counterplay. They stay at max range, with streak to keep them safe, and target a single person and delete them midair when that person is finally chained by their dedicated chain spam bot - again, from max range. THERE IS NO ACTUAL COUNTER PLAY TO THIS. When they can delete 35k health with full raid buffs before you hit the ground. If anything ballgroup players are the LEAST impacted by this because we actually have the health and buffs to have a chance at survival. The only reason you even think that the non-counterplay you've described works is because you're simply not their primary target. That could easily change at their whim. The mechanics they are abusing are broken, plain and simple without actual, meaningful, reactive counterplay. Your insistence to the contrary is straight up pants-on-head.
Have you actually tried engaging that squad in an even fight, or are you trying to fight them while also tanking the entire faction frontline?
Yeah, thought so.
Once again, this just comes down to ball group players feeling entitled to their 12v80 playstyle and calling anything that punishes it “no counterplay.”
"Fight them fair" lmfao. Actually lmfao. At this point, I can only assume you're one of the people engaging in this abuse with a vested interest in defending it.
And yes, I am being as fair as I can be from the perspective of someone who enjoys pulse ganking and openly admits the build is overtuned. I also ball group myself, so I am not speaking from some blind hatred of the playstyle. The difference is that I can acknowledge when something I use is abusive or too strong, while you seem completely unwilling to apply that same standard to your own playstyle.
By all means, continue to pretend that I haven't repeatedly called for nerfs for those exact problem areas for the ballgroup playstyle. But this is NOT a thread about that. This is a thread about the abusive uncounterable gank meta, not ballgrouping. Continuing to whatabout ballgroups to deflect is wholly inappropriate for the thread.
By all means, continue pretending you are not asking for an all-or-nothing nerf to a playstyle that is capable of shutting you down, while also claiming there are more counters to ball groups than ever before, which is simply not true.
You can try to frame this as off-topic all you want, but the reason ball groups keep being brought up is because the loudest voices calling for this playstyle to be deleted are the same players who refuse to acknowledge how overtuned their own playstyle has been for years.
It is off topic. Maybe that point would be valid if only ball groupers were calling for its nerf, but that is most certainly not the case. I think non ball groupers have a better argument for wanting pulse ganking to be nerfed, they're more at risk of dying to a gank that desync kills you in 1 frame than a ball grouper. Half this thread is just nerf ball group comments coming from you alone, you've made your point known and it's beyond the point of derailment now.2 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mythicals in general need an overhaul. They are meant to be a blessing and a curse in one, yet some are a godly blessing and a slap on the wrist.
Monomyth applying menial debuffs that are already on you at all times in pvp, minor vulnerability, is a joke in exchange for 20% crit damage, 5% damage and 10% less damage taken. It should at the very least be Major Vulnerability and Major Timidity as a debuff. Same with the Shattered Path Signet. Why doesn't it prevent the use of ultimates altogether? Overload, Werewolf, Bear allow navigating around the laughable deficit that is Minor Timidity. Once again, it should at least be Major Timidity and if we wanted it to be a true curse; it should turn into Minor Timidity even outside of combat.
On the flipside we have Mythicals with tremendous drawbacks but not enough blessing. Malacath for one. It is not worth trading 50% crit damage for 16% damage done, that in reality ends up as 11.3% based on a test I recently conducted.
But as others have said; even if you nerfed Signet and Monomyth in a meaningful way, it would do nothing to stunt those gank builds. They have so much overkill damage currently that nothing can truly be done.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.2 -
TheAwesomeChimpanzee✭✭✭✭✭RaidingTraiding wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.
These people have started running as a group for when their already disgusting 35k+ solo gank isn't cutting it.
One person chains you from max range/stealth, the rest pulse you midair so you die before you can do literally anything about it. It's abusive plain and simple, and ZOS's failure to immediately adjust it as a preventative measure is pretty insulting. Any other game that has PVP would've shut this down inside a week as part of routine balance maintenance.
Said the ball group player
There is more counterplay to ballgrouping than ever before. This nonsense has absolutely none, and the comparison shows a deep unseriousness that is frankly completely invalidating to every argument you're making in this thread.
It is extremely easy to outrange, outsiege, outlast, and evict, a ballgroup. Max range gank squads backed by a troll endlessly spamming chains gives you absolutely no counterplay. It's abusive plain and simple. Furthermore, the level of individually targeted griefing that some of the players doing this are engaging in (including provable, documented stream sniping) has full on crossed into ToS violating targeted harassment.
Incorrect. I have explained how to counter it multiple times throughout this thread.
Once again, ball group players who almost never set foot outside of their 12-man raid are trying to get anything that actually pressures or counters them nerfed into the ground, while completely ignoring their own crutches.
You can call it “no counterplay” all you want, but that does not make it true. The counterplay has already been explained. The issue is that you do not like the counterplay because it is one of the few things that can actually disrupt the playstyle you benefit from.
"Punishing them when they overcommit" is not counterplay. They stay at max range, with streak to keep them safe, and target a single person and delete them midair when that person is finally chained by their dedicated chain spam bot - again, from max range. THERE IS NO ACTUAL COUNTER PLAY TO THIS. When they can delete 35k health with full raid buffs before you hit the ground. If anything ballgroup players are the LEAST impacted by this because we actually have the health and buffs to have a chance at survival. The only reason you even think that the non-counterplay you've described works is because you're simply not their primary target. That could easily change at their whim. The mechanics they are abusing are broken, plain and simple without actual, meaningful, reactive counterplay. Your insistence to the contrary is straight up pants-on-head.
Have you actually tried engaging that squad in an even fight, or are you trying to fight them while also tanking the entire faction frontline?
Yeah, thought so.
Once again, this just comes down to ball group players feeling entitled to their 12v80 playstyle and calling anything that punishes it “no counterplay.”
"Fight them fair" lmfao. Actually lmfao. At this point, I can only assume you're one of the people engaging in this abuse with a vested interest in defending it.
And yes, I am being as fair as I can be from the perspective of someone who enjoys pulse ganking and openly admits the build is overtuned. I also ball group myself, so I am not speaking from some blind hatred of the playstyle. The difference is that I can acknowledge when something I use is abusive or too strong, while you seem completely unwilling to apply that same standard to your own playstyle.
By all means, continue to pretend that I haven't repeatedly called for nerfs for those exact problem areas for the ballgroup playstyle. But this is NOT a thread about that. This is a thread about the abusive uncounterable gank meta, not ballgrouping. Continuing to whatabout ballgroups to deflect is wholly inappropriate for the thread.
By all means, continue pretending you are not asking for an all-or-nothing nerf to a playstyle that is capable of shutting you down, while also claiming there are more counters to ball groups than ever before, which is simply not true.
You can try to frame this as off-topic all you want, but the reason ball groups keep being brought up is because the loudest voices calling for this playstyle to be deleted are the same players who refuse to acknowledge how overtuned their own playstyle has been for years.
It is off topic. Maybe that point would be valid if only ball groupers were calling for its nerf, but that is most certainly not the case. I think non ball groupers have a better argument for wanting pulse ganking to be nerfed, they're more at risk of dying to a gank that desync kills you in 1 frame than a ball grouper. Half this thread is just nerf ball group comments coming from you alone, you've made your point known and it's beyond the point of derailment now.
No, it is not off topic. I am asking for a nerf, and I have been asking for one throughout the entire thread.
The fact that I am also calling out ball group players demanding an all-or-nothing nerf is not derailment, it is directly relevant to the discussion. There is a very clear difference between saying “this playstyle is overtuned and should be adjusted” and asking for it to be deleted from the game entirely because it happens to pressure your group.
If that distinction is still unclear at this point, then this is less a matter of the thread being derailed and more a matter of reading comprehension.
3 -
TheAwesomeChimpanzee✭✭✭✭✭Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »But this is NOT a thread about that. This is a thread about the abusive uncounterable gank meta, not ballgrouping. Continuing to whatabout ballgroups to deflect is wholly inappropriate for the thread.
The supposedly “uncounterable” gank meta came about mostly because of near unkillable ball groups. These groups have been complained about for nearly half a decade by literally thousands of players, and have only gotten stronger with the occasional token attempt to rein them in that ends up backfiring or getting walked back.
Meanwhile, a playstyle that got strong in the last month gets a “well take a look at this” message from the higher-ups because a couple dozen people are mad that it kills them.
You don’t balance a game by nuking effective playstyles that serve as an alternative to a meta that has terrorized players for years. You encourage variety among builds that can compete. And that’s what we’re starting to see.
Fully agree with this.
The reason ball groups keep coming up in this discussion is because the current gank meta did not appear in a vacuum. It became this strong largely as a response to a playstyle that has been overtuned, heavily protected, and complained about for years with very little meaningful action taken.4 -
acastanza_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »But this is NOT a thread about that. This is a thread about the abusive uncounterable gank meta, not ballgrouping. Continuing to whatabout ballgroups to deflect is wholly inappropriate for the thread.
The supposedly “uncounterable” gank meta came about mostly because of near unkillable ball groups. These groups have been complained about for nearly half a decade by literally thousands of players, and have only gotten stronger with the occasional token attempt to rein them in that ends up backfiring or getting walked back.
Meanwhile, a playstyle that got strong in the last month gets a “well take a look at this” message from the higher-ups because a couple dozen people are mad that it kills them.
You don’t balance a game by nuking effective playstyles that serve as an alternative to a meta that has terrorized players for years. You encourage variety among builds that can compete. And that’s what we’re starting to see.
Fully agree with this.
The reason ball groups keep coming up in this discussion is because the current gank meta did not appear in a vacuum. It became this strong largely as a response to a playstyle that has been overtuned, heavily protected, and complained about for years with very little meaningful action taken.
This is a pretty wild take. Players don't create skill balance. So has ZOS done nothing to address ballgrouping, or is this gank meta a response to ballgrouping. You can't have it both ways. The reality is that you're just trying to justify continuing to bring up ballgrouping when it has nothing to do with this conversation.2 -
TheAwesomeChimpanzee✭✭✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »But this is NOT a thread about that. This is a thread about the abusive uncounterable gank meta, not ballgrouping. Continuing to whatabout ballgroups to deflect is wholly inappropriate for the thread.
The supposedly “uncounterable” gank meta came about mostly because of near unkillable ball groups. These groups have been complained about for nearly half a decade by literally thousands of players, and have only gotten stronger with the occasional token attempt to rein them in that ends up backfiring or getting walked back.
Meanwhile, a playstyle that got strong in the last month gets a “well take a look at this” message from the higher-ups because a couple dozen people are mad that it kills them.
You don’t balance a game by nuking effective playstyles that serve as an alternative to a meta that has terrorized players for years. You encourage variety among builds that can compete. And that’s what we’re starting to see.
Fully agree with this.
The reason ball groups keep coming up in this discussion is because the current gank meta did not appear in a vacuum. It became this strong largely as a response to a playstyle that has been overtuned, heavily protected, and complained about for years with very little meaningful action taken.
This is a pretty wild take. Players don't create skill balance. So has ZOS done nothing to address ballgrouping, or is this gank meta a response to ballgrouping. You can't have it both ways. The reality is that you're just trying to justify continuing to bring up ballgrouping when it has nothing to do with this conversation.
I disagree. I will continue to bring up ball groups when I think they are relevant to the conversation.
This gank meta does not exist in a vacuum, and pretending the broader Cyrodiil meta has nothing to do with it is just not realistic. Player behavior, group composition, survivability stacking, and the lack of meaningful answers to organized groups are all part of why certain playstyles become popular in the first place.
So yes, if I think ball groups are relevant to the point being made, I am going to keep bringing them up.3 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.
These people have started running as a group for when their already disgusting 35k+ solo gank isn't cutting it.
One person chains you from max range/stealth, the rest pulse you midair so you die before you can do literally anything about it. It's abusive plain and simple, and ZOS's failure to immediately adjust it as a preventative measure is pretty insulting. Any other game that has PVP would've shut this down inside a week as part of routine balance maintenance.
Said the ball group player
There is more counterplay to ballgrouping than ever before. This nonsense has absolutely none, and the comparison shows a deep unseriousness that is frankly completely invalidating to every argument you're making in this thread.
It is extremely easy to outrange, outsiege, outlast, and evict, a ballgroup. Max range gank squads backed by a troll endlessly spamming chains gives you absolutely no counterplay. It's abusive plain and simple. Furthermore, the level of individually targeted griefing that some of the players doing this are engaging in (including provable, documented stream sniping) has full on crossed into ToS violating targeted harassment.
Incorrect. I have explained how to counter it multiple times throughout this thread.
Once again, ball group players who almost never set foot outside of their 12-man raid are trying to get anything that actually pressures or counters them nerfed into the ground, while completely ignoring their own crutches.
You can call it “no counterplay” all you want, but that does not make it true. The counterplay has already been explained. The issue is that you do not like the counterplay because it is one of the few things that can actually disrupt the playstyle you benefit from.
"Punishing them when they overcommit" is not counterplay. They stay at max range, with streak to keep them safe, and target a single person and delete them midair when that person is finally chained by their dedicated chain spam bot - again, from max range. THERE IS NO ACTUAL COUNTER PLAY TO THIS. When they can delete 35k health with full raid buffs before you hit the ground. If anything ballgroup players are the LEAST impacted by this because we actually have the health and buffs to have a chance at survival. The only reason you even think that the non-counterplay you've described works is because you're simply not their primary target. That could easily change at their whim. The mechanics they are abusing are broken, plain and simple without actual, meaningful, reactive counterplay. Your insistence to the contrary is straight up pants-on-head.
oH No, TwO pLAYerS COMuNICATtiNG sYNCroNIzxhinG aBIlITiES TO bURSt a TArGEt DoWN, WHaT a trAVerSTy.
The fact that you expect that a single player, pulled out of position and away from allies, expecting they should, passively, have enough squad-shared PASSIVE SET BUFFS to prevent being killed by two players communicating a synchronized attack.
Is why PvP has steadily been on the decline.
Block next time, it'll prevent the pull. You can see the chain coming. If they're stealthed, you've enough people to cycle detect pots, and you'll have WW detection in u50.
if it's laggy, well guess what, your ballgroup is likely causing it, lol.
Also, congrats on the shoe being on the other foot, what with a ballgroup for hours on end, farming Faregyl second floor, suddenly getting in a mood now that there's counterplay.
I do think Shattered Path Signet is overtuned with DoT persistence and abilities with quad chances at status effects, but not ganking a player (specifically in tandem with another player) out of a ballgroup.6 -
BigPlays420Soul ShrivenAvran_Sylt wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.
These people have started running as a group for when their already disgusting 35k+ solo gank isn't cutting it.
One person chains you from max range/stealth, the rest pulse you midair so you die before you can do literally anything about it. It's abusive plain and simple, and ZOS's failure to immediately adjust it as a preventative measure is pretty insulting. Any other game that has PVP would've shut this down inside a week as part of routine balance maintenance.
Said the ball group player
There is more counterplay to ballgrouping than ever before. This nonsense has absolutely none, and the comparison shows a deep unseriousness that is frankly completely invalidating to every argument you're making in this thread.
It is extremely easy to outrange, outsiege, outlast, and evict, a ballgroup. Max range gank squads backed by a troll endlessly spamming chains gives you absolutely no counterplay. It's abusive plain and simple. Furthermore, the level of individually targeted griefing that some of the players doing this are engaging in (including provable, documented stream sniping) has full on crossed into ToS violating targeted harassment.
Incorrect. I have explained how to counter it multiple times throughout this thread.
Once again, ball group players who almost never set foot outside of their 12-man raid are trying to get anything that actually pressures or counters them nerfed into the ground, while completely ignoring their own crutches.
You can call it “no counterplay” all you want, but that does not make it true. The counterplay has already been explained. The issue is that you do not like the counterplay because it is one of the few things that can actually disrupt the playstyle you benefit from.
"Punishing them when they overcommit" is not counterplay. They stay at max range, with streak to keep them safe, and target a single person and delete them midair when that person is finally chained by their dedicated chain spam bot - again, from max range. THERE IS NO ACTUAL COUNTER PLAY TO THIS. When they can delete 35k health with full raid buffs before you hit the ground. If anything ballgroup players are the LEAST impacted by this because we actually have the health and buffs to have a chance at survival. The only reason you even think that the non-counterplay you've described works is because you're simply not their primary target. That could easily change at their whim. The mechanics they are abusing are broken, plain and simple without actual, meaningful, reactive counterplay. Your insistence to the contrary is straight up pants-on-head.
oH No, TwO pLAYerS COMuNICATtiNG sYNCroNIzxhinG aBIlITiES TO bURSt a TArGEt DoWN, WHaT a trAVerSTy.
The fact that you expect that a single player, pulled out of position and away from allies, expecting they should, passively, have enough squad-shared PASSIVE SET BUFFS to prevent being killed by two players communicating a synchronized attack.
Is why PvP has steadily been on the decline.
Block next time, it'll prevent the pull. You can see the chain coming. If they're stealthed, you've enough people to cycle detect pots, and you'll have WW detection in u50.
if it's laggy, well guess what, your ballgroup is likely causing it, lol.
Also, congrats on the shoe being on the other foot, what with a ballgroup for hours on end, farming Faregyl second floor, suddenly getting in a mood now that there's counterplay.
I do think Shattered Path Signet is overtuned with DoT persistence and abilities with quad chances at status effects, but not ganking a player (specifically in tandem with another player) out of a ballgroup.
Yeah, this is pretty much how I see it too.
Two or more people timing damage and communicating to kill one person is not some insane uncounterable concept. That is literally how PvP is supposed to work and guess what, a tactic ball groups use too. If someone gets pulled out of position, away from their group, and then dies to a coordinated burst, that does not automatically mean the playstyle has no counterplay. Block the pull, stay closer to your group, slot detection, have people actually pay attention, etc. There are answers. The problem is that a lot of people seem to think counterplay means being able to survive everything passively while still playing the exact same way.Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.
On a different note, I think what some of us are trying to say is that we do not want this build completely abolished. Some of us have been playing this kind of setup since before people even called them Pulse gankers, back when they were usually called Pulse blades. The concern is not that the build might get tuned down. Most of us agree it probably should be. The concern is that, knowing ZOS’ history, “tuning it down” can very easily turn into completely deleting the playstyle. That is what some of us would like to fight against. Nerf it, adjust it, bring it back into a more reasonable state, sure. But do not completely kill one of the few playstyles that can actually punish organized groups and create some variety in Cyrodiil.
6 -
Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭
✭No actually some of us do think that playstyle should be deleted. Please and thank you.4 -
Oblivion_Protocol✭✭✭✭✭
✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »No actually some of us do think that playstyle should be deleted. Please and thank you.
Congratulations! You’re part of the problem. Let me ask you something. If this playstyle gets deleted, and you go to Cyro and get buried by a DK, should DK get deleted? Once that’s gone, when you get killed by a subclassed Warden, should that playstyle get deleted? How about NBs? Sorcs? Where’s the line? Should we all just agree to show up for naked fist fights with no CP slotted?
What if someone complains about your favorite playstyle, and ZOS nerfs it into the dirt? Are you going to shrug and say that it’s fair, or are you going to want to cancel your account and move to another game?
Most of us want things adjusted and tuned down, or at the very least, we want people to learn how to play against it. I’d rather see an attempt at counter play than a bunch of people screaming for nerfs until they bully the devs into throwing the baby out with the bath water. Then come the disingenuous “thank you ZOS!!!” posts before the next broken thing comes around and suddenly ZOS is the devil again.0 -
TheAwesomeChimpanzee✭✭✭✭✭Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.BigPlays420 wrote: »On a different note, I think what some of us are trying to say is that we do not want this build completely abolished. Some of us have been playing this kind of setup since before people even called them Pulse gankers, back when they were usually called Pulse blades. The concern is not that the build might get tuned down. Most of us agree it probably should be. The concern is that, knowing ZOS’ history, “tuning it down” can very easily turn into completely deleting the playstyle. That is what some of us would like to fight against. Nerf it, adjust it, bring it back into a more reasonable state, sure. But do not completely kill one of the few playstyles that can actually punish organized groups and create some variety in Cyrodiil.
I second this, @ZOS_Kevin please don’t press the delete button on the setup, nerf it but don’t delete it.Edited by TheAwesomeChimpanzee on May 24, 2026 4:37PM0 -
Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »No actually some of us do think that playstyle should be deleted. Please and thank you.
Congratulations! You’re part of the problem. Let me ask you something. If this playstyle gets deleted, and you go to Cyro and get buried by a DK, should DK get deleted? Once that’s gone, when you get killed by a subclassed Warden, should that playstyle get deleted? How about NBs? Sorcs? Where’s the line? Should we all just agree to show up for naked fist fights with no CP slotted?
What if someone complains about your favorite playstyle, and ZOS nerfs it into the dirt? Are you going to shrug and say that it’s fair, or are you going to want to cancel your account and move to another game?
Most of us want things adjusted and tuned down, or at the very least, we want people to learn how to play against it. I’d rather see an attempt at counter play than a bunch of people screaming for nerfs until they bully the devs into throwing the baby out with the bath water. Then come the disingenuous “thank you ZOS!!!” posts before the next broken thing comes around and suddenly ZOS is the devil
Congratulations you typed out all that only to be completely wrong. I’ll call out over performing, unbalanced, and unhealthy mechanics as I have always done. I main a nb and I have called for nerfs when appropriate back then. like stealth mechanics. I try and be objective and that tends to make players who indulge in over performing sets or mechanics mad.
Look, I have played a pulse ganker. It was strong even then and ridiculous now. I wont lie and say it isn’t fun to play because it absolutely is. But it’s fun because of how broken it is. It shouldn’t stay as is.
The real issue here is I’m not entirely sure how to nerf pulse gankers without really messing up certain skills that are staples for non problematic setups.
Edited by Alchimiste1 on May 24, 2026 8:04PM0 -
ioResult✭✭✭✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »Look, I have played a pulse ganker. It was strong even then and ridiculous now. I wont lie and say it isn’t fun to play because it absolutely is. But it’s fun because of how broken it is. It shouldn’t stay as is.
The real issue here is I’m not entirely sure how to nerf pulse gankers without really messing up certain skills that are staples for non problematic setups.
I think people are missing the point. Here is a setup that is effective at countering all the previously unkillable one-shotting DKs that Cyrodiil was rife with as well as effective in neutering ball groups and Agony bombers.
All of these things have been around previously to the rise of the "Pulse Ganker" and we've complained about them yet neither @ZOS_Kevin nor anyone else at ZOS have seen fit to chime in on a thread to say they're actively looking at nerfing or deleting those builds or playstyles.
Want to know what's a much bigger problem in Cyrodiil than Pulse Gankers?
DKs with no effort can do this much damage in a single second. Look at those per ability damage numbers. In PvP.
But where is the thread of employees from ZOS saying they are actively looking into *that*? Where is the thread saying they are actively looking into doing something about ballgroups? All they did so far was some half hearted attempt to reign in HoTs but the ball groupers all got on here to scream to high heavens which then precipitated a near instantaneously pull back of the HoT change on the PTTS.
It's only stealth play of any kind that gets this kind of attention from ZOS.But yeah ZOS...Cloak is the problem.
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sudo rm -rf /
don't try this at ~0 -
TheAwesomeChimpanzee✭✭✭✭✭
He is not wrong though. Completely abolishing a build is never a balanced solution, the same way “deleting” ball groups, 1vX, zerging, or any other way people choose to play open world PvP would be unhealthy for the game.Alchimiste1 wrote: »Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »No actually some of us do think that playstyle should be deleted. Please and thank you.
Congratulations! You’re part of the problem. Let me ask you something. If this playstyle gets deleted, and you go to Cyro and get buried by a DK, should DK get deleted? Once that’s gone, when you get killed by a subclassed Warden, should that playstyle get deleted? How about NBs? Sorcs? Where’s the line? Should we all just agree to show up for naked fist fights with no CP slotted?
What if someone complains about your favorite playstyle, and ZOS nerfs it into the dirt? Are you going to shrug and say that it’s fair, or are you going to want to cancel your account and move to another game?
Most of us want things adjusted and tuned down, or at the very least, we want people to learn how to play against it. I’d rather see an attempt at counter play than a bunch of people screaming for nerfs until they bully the devs into throwing the baby out with the bath water. Then come the disingenuous “thank you ZOS!!!” posts before the next broken thing comes around and suddenly ZOS is the devil
Congratulations you typed out all that only to be completely wrong. I’ll call out over performing, unbalanced, and unhealthy mechanics as I have always done. I main a nb and I have called for nerfs when appropriate back then. like stealth mechanics. I try and be objective and that tends to make players who indulge in over performing sets or mechanics mad.
Look, I have played a pulse ganker. It was strong even then and ridiculous now. I wont lie and say it isn’t fun to play because it absolutely is. But it’s fun because of how broken it is. It shouldn’t stay as is.
The real issue here is I’m not entirely sure how to nerf pulse gankers without really messing up certain skills that are staples for non problematic setups.
People enjoy Cyrodiil in different ways. Some people want to solo, some want to smallscale, some want to ball group, some want to zerg, and some want to gank. The goal should be tuning things into a healthier state, not removing entire playstyles because the current patch made one of them too strong.
I get that solo/1vX players are probably frustrated with this patch. It went from being able to fight half a faction on a totally-not-overtuned DK to getting deleted the moment you step too far from your group in less than a month. But if you actually played Pulse blade before all of this, then you know the build was not always this ridiculous.
It can be nerfed back into a more reasonable state without completely killing it.
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warm_blanket✭✭✭ZOS added stronger detect pots, Sentry set, having a DoT on you, having a Dot on someone else, abilities to reveal you, poisons to reveal you, and then completely nerfed Shadowy Disguise into the ground and you say the game needs MORE sources of detect? Are you joking? No other class has had their core mechanics (stealth and single target crit/crit damage) completely nerfed into the ground because people can't figure out how to use detect potions. We're at the point where "Nightblades" are not using a single other class ability other than Spec bow. Need another source of detect. Gimme a break.
Current detect options are fine as they have a tangible cost + cooldown. What doesn't is prowl detection on werewolf.
The stam cost doesn't matter in a group, so any zerging ww that isn't actively pressured (and even then) can doubletap crouch every 6s to become a furry awacs. It just works out to empower Xv1.
What's funny is pulse ganking and ele sus spamming are also most effective when ganging up on lone players.
It would be great if the team could keep a closer eye on when things become too oppressive in Xv1 play as well.3 -
"This is the worst meta I have ever seen. Period."
If you're talking about subclassing than I couldn't agree more. The new mythic is not the problem. Subclassing is, and has been, the problem. This build wouldn't exist without subclassing. Several of us theory crafted and knew it'd be a problem before subclassing even went live. This mythic just takes something that was already strong, i.e. subclassing, and buffs it even further. Also, while we are on the topic of things that are over-performing how about the use of Colossus for crutch bombing? How about other unbalanced sets like Rallying Cry that is a group support set being abused in solo and/or small scale pvp?2 -
Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »
He is not wrong though. Completely abolishing a build is never a balanced solution, the same way “deleting” ball groups, 1vX, zerging, or any other way people choose to play open world PvP would be unhealthy for the game.Alchimiste1 wrote: »Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »No actually some of us do think that playstyle should be deleted. Please and thank you.
Congratulations! You’re part of the problem. Let me ask you something. If this playstyle gets deleted, and you go to Cyro and get buried by a DK, should DK get deleted? Once that’s gone, when you get killed by a subclassed Warden, should that playstyle get deleted? How about NBs? Sorcs? Where’s the line? Should we all just agree to show up for naked fist fights with no CP slotted?
What if someone complains about your favorite playstyle, and ZOS nerfs it into the dirt? Are you going to shrug and say that it’s fair, or are you going to want to cancel your account and move to another game?
Most of us want things adjusted and tuned down, or at the very least, we want people to learn how to play against it. I’d rather see an attempt at counter play than a bunch of people screaming for nerfs until they bully the devs into throwing the baby out with the bath water. Then come the disingenuous “thank you ZOS!!!” posts before the next broken thing comes around and suddenly ZOS is the devil
Congratulations you typed out all that only to be completely wrong. I’ll call out over performing, unbalanced, and unhealthy mechanics as I have always done. I main a nb and I have called for nerfs when appropriate back then. like stealth mechanics. I try and be objective and that tends to make players who indulge in over performing sets or mechanics mad.
Look, I have played a pulse ganker. It was strong even then and ridiculous now. I won't lie and say it isn’t fun to play because it absolutely is. But it’s fun because of how broken it is. It shouldn’t stay as is.
The real issue here is I’m not entirely sure how to nerf pulse gankers without really messing up certain skills that are staples for non problematic setups.
People enjoy Cyrodiil in different ways. Some people want to solo, some want to smallscale, some want to ball group, some want to zerg, and some want to gank. The goal should be tuning things into a healthier state, not removing entire playstyles because the current patch made one of them too strong.
I get that solo/1vX players are probably frustrated with this patch. It went from being able to fight half a faction on a totally-not-overtuned DK to getting deleted the moment you step too far from your group in less than a month. But if you actually played Pulse blade before all of this, then you know the build was not always this ridiculous.
It can be nerfed back into a more reasonable state without completely killing it.
Yeah, it's tough though because while signet is boosting its power substantially, I think subclassing boosted it just as much tbh.
I'm not quite sure how I would go about it, even without signet the build is very strong. I heard someone say to make the mythic like thrassians where you can't go invis/crouch which might help but I'm not convinced that's the best option.Edited by Alchimiste1 on May 25, 2026 4:23AM1 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I really hope it's shattered path signet that gets the attention first and foremost. I don't think it needs to be nerfed to the ground, btw.
Op as it is, it has been fun theorycrafting builds around it.
I'm hoping for a rework for sps that would keep it interesting while not making it completely op. @Decimus had a great suggestion of it simply providing a large amount of status chance.
Or maybe make it so that it sets base status chance for all sources at like 10%. Then the tradeoff is that guaranteed sources become less valuable but for example dot effects could proc them more often.0 -
TheAwesomeChimpanzee✭✭✭✭✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »
He is not wrong though. Completely abolishing a build is never a balanced solution, the same way “deleting” ball groups, 1vX, zerging, or any other way people choose to play open world PvP would be unhealthy for the game.Alchimiste1 wrote: »Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »No actually some of us do think that playstyle should be deleted. Please and thank you.
Congratulations! You’re part of the problem. Let me ask you something. If this playstyle gets deleted, and you go to Cyro and get buried by a DK, should DK get deleted? Once that’s gone, when you get killed by a subclassed Warden, should that playstyle get deleted? How about NBs? Sorcs? Where’s the line? Should we all just agree to show up for naked fist fights with no CP slotted?
What if someone complains about your favorite playstyle, and ZOS nerfs it into the dirt? Are you going to shrug and say that it’s fair, or are you going to want to cancel your account and move to another game?
Most of us want things adjusted and tuned down, or at the very least, we want people to learn how to play against it. I’d rather see an attempt at counter play than a bunch of people screaming for nerfs until they bully the devs into throwing the baby out with the bath water. Then come the disingenuous “thank you ZOS!!!” posts before the next broken thing comes around and suddenly ZOS is the devil
Congratulations you typed out all that only to be completely wrong. I’ll call out over performing, unbalanced, and unhealthy mechanics as I have always done. I main a nb and I have called for nerfs when appropriate back then. like stealth mechanics. I try and be objective and that tends to make players who indulge in over performing sets or mechanics mad.
Look, I have played a pulse ganker. It was strong even then and ridiculous now. I won't lie and say it isn’t fun to play because it absolutely is. But it’s fun because of how broken it is. It shouldn’t stay as is.
The real issue here is I’m not entirely sure how to nerf pulse gankers without really messing up certain skills that are staples for non problematic setups.
People enjoy Cyrodiil in different ways. Some people want to solo, some want to smallscale, some want to ball group, some want to zerg, and some want to gank. The goal should be tuning things into a healthier state, not removing entire playstyles because the current patch made one of them too strong.
I get that solo/1vX players are probably frustrated with this patch. It went from being able to fight half a faction on a totally-not-overtuned DK to getting deleted the moment you step too far from your group in less than a month. But if you actually played Pulse blade before all of this, then you know the build was not always this ridiculous.
It can be nerfed back into a more reasonable state without completely killing it.
Yeah, it's tough though because while signet is boosting its power substantially, I think subclassing boosted it just as much tbh.
I'm not quite sure how I would go about it, even without signet the build is very strong. I heard someone say to make the mythic like thrassians where you can't go invis/crouch which might help but I'm not convinced that's the best option.
Hot take maybe (not really), but Signet is not really the main problem here.
Signet is only clearly better in a Threads of War setup. In most other Pulse ganking setups, there are other options that give you more value. The build was already playable before Signet became the thing everyone is pointing at, so I don’t really buy that Signet alone is what pushed it over the edge.
Personally, I think the actual issue is the subclassing combo with Treatise + C-wep + Overload. That, on top of the Signet nerf, is what should be looked at.
If that gets toned down, the gank is probably in a much healthier spot. You would still be able to Pulse gank, but you would need multiple people actually coordinating to reach the same kind of one-tap potential that a single Pulse ganker can get right now.
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