Pulse Ganker and Shattered Mythic

Urzigurumash · May 21

xylena wrote: »

Seems like a massive design failure that intended pressure sets like Draugrkin and now the broken Shattered Path mythic are being used to one shot burst gank. Too many of these effects tick immediately, addressing that would nerf the burst without nerfing the pressure.

Yeah whats up with the general burst proc cooldown thing, it was instituted around when procs got scaling or could crit again, does it still function? Enchants are also some of the last remaining unscaled procs.

ZOS_Kevin · May 21

Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.

React · May 21

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.

Great to hear this - I just hope the overall feedback is clear that this isn't just an issue with the pulse ganker setup, but also status effects overperforming as a whole when paired with the new mythic. Especially in the case of elemental susceptibility, which has been elevated so much that it can now be used as a "spammable" that is free to cast and both undodgeable/unblockable.

Sedare38 · May 21

The only nerf needs to come to the Recuperative + Crystal Weapons with light attack initial combo. You can achieve high damage without monomyth and without the shattered signet. The issue isn't those it's the initial burst. Most of the combo is set-up, there's only 2 ways to stealth (invis pot and stage 4), you're glassy as all get out, and your initial buffs to set up the gank bring you out of stealth. If you opt to start with Focus aim, then you're basically having to do a very nice combination of button pushes and only those dexterous enough to pull it off or those clowns who macro can do it.

It's a high risk high reward build and it still will be mitigated by tanky builds, especially those running rallying cry and/or dragon wings which will negate most of the incoming damage as both pulse, light attack, and even susceptibility (seemingly) are considered missiles.

I'd argue the only thing that needs nerfing is the multi-classing, oh sorry sub-classing combination. Make recuperative only proc off Arcanist abilities.

Then again, 80% of the population are infinity tanks, healers, blockers, so why not allow some good ole quick ttk?

Nerf rallying cry into the ground. How about that.

Urzigurumash · May 21

Sedare38 wrote: »

again, 80% of the population are infinity tanks, healers, blockers, so why not allow some good ole quick ttk?

Wow where is this, what platform?

DrGIggles80 · May 21

To all those saying it's a problem with monomyth you are wrong . Funny how monomyth been around forever smd these pulse gankers haven't been a problem. As soon as signet hits they are a major problem..

acastanza_ESO · May 21

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.

These people have started running as a group for when their already disgusting 35k+ solo gank isn't cutting it.
One person chains you from max range/stealth, the rest pulse you midair so you die before you can do literally anything about it. It's abusive plain and simple, and ZOS's failure to immediately adjust it as a preventative measure is pretty insulting. Any other game that has PVP would've shut this down inside a week as part of routine balance maintenance.

Sedare38 · May 21

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Sedare38 wrote: »

again, 80% of the population are infinity tanks, healers, blockers, so why not allow some good ole quick ttk?

Wow where is this, what platform?

If you're fighting against EP, not there. most of them are sitting on a flag or repairing a door about to be bombed by easy mode dark convergence or agony + collossus bombers. DC has the majority of them in addition to AD, so look in towers at a resource, behind a box on an outer keep wall, or running up and down and up again in a corner tower of an outer wall. sometimes they also like to pretend to be foliage if they're out between keeps/outposts.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · May 21

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.

These people have started running as a group for when their already disgusting 35k+ solo gank isn't cutting it.
One person chains you from max range/stealth, the rest pulse you midair so you die before you can do literally anything about it. It's abusive plain and simple, and ZOS's failure to immediately adjust it as a preventative measure is pretty insulting. Any other game that has PVP would've shut this down inside a week as part of routine balance maintenance.

Said the ball group player

Luneca · May 21

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.

These people have started running as a group for when their already disgusting 35k+ solo gank isn't cutting it.
One person chains you from max range/stealth, the rest pulse you midair so you die before you can do literally anything about it. It's abusive plain and simple, and ZOS's failure to immediately adjust it as a preventative measure is pretty insulting. Any other game that has PVP would've shut this down inside a week as part of routine balance maintenance.

If more than one person is attacking, shouldn't they have the advantage if built for damage and you aren't an actual tank?

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · May 21

Luneca wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.

These people have started running as a group for when their already disgusting 35k+ solo gank isn't cutting it.
One person chains you from max range/stealth, the rest pulse you midair so you die before you can do literally anything about it. It's abusive plain and simple, and ZOS's failure to immediately adjust it as a preventative measure is pretty insulting. Any other game that has PVP would've shut this down inside a week as part of routine balance maintenance.

If more than one person is attacking, shouldn't they have the advantage if built for damage and you aren't an actual tank?

No that'd make too much sense.

Sedare38 · May 21

DrGIggles80 wrote: »

To all those saying it's a problem with monomyth you are wrong . Funny how monomyth been around forever smd these pulse gankers haven't been a problem. As soon as signet hits they are a major problem..

This is a slightly incorrect take and I wouldn't call monomyth a problem nor the shattered signet. It's mostly been monomyth + subclassing (again this is a misnomer as what zos introduced is multi-classing since a class is taking on lines from another class but that's neither here nor there) with recuperative + crystal weapons being the main combo and this has been going on for months with monomyth.

Pulse builds in one form or another have existed prior to both the monomyth (and the signet) and subclassing as I've been using a version for years now. Subclassing empowered a version of the build even more, as did monomyth/signet.

BetweenMidgets · May 21

Hope this is addressed before the PVP Veteran stuff is rolled out.
A new system drops and it encourages people to PVP, some who might have been reluctant before. The moment they ride out of a Keep and they get 100% to dead will be when they rez at the gate and port out.

Having @Decimus ' thread linked in here would be beneficial, too:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/692349/shattered-paths-signet-is-problematic

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · May 21

Sedare38 wrote: »

DrGIggles80 wrote: »

To all those saying it's a problem with monomyth you are wrong . Funny how monomyth been around forever smd these pulse gankers haven't been a problem. As soon as signet hits they are a major problem..

This is a slightly incorrect take and I wouldn't call monomyth a problem nor the shattered signet. It's mostly been monomyth + subclassing (again this is a misnomer as what zos introduced is multi-classing since a class is taking on lines from another class but that's neither here nor there) with recuperative + crystal weapons being the main combo and this has been going on for months with monomyth.

Pulse builds in one form or another have existed prior to both the monomyth (and the signet) and subclassing as I've been using a version for years now. Subclassing empowered a version of the build even more, as did monomyth/signet.

Indeed. Like you, I have been pulse ganking since long before subclassing, and it was subclassing that pushed the gank into “1 GCD” territory with the C-Weap + Treatise combo.

Before subclassing, the build was more of a fun, frontline, spammy setup. It really only worked when you were either group ganking or trying to pressure someone down over time, and it did a good job at that. It was still an effective way to disrupt organized groups, log in, and have fun zerging the map down.

I will not deny that the gank is stronger than it probably should be, but knowing ZOS, whenever they decide to pull the trigger, they will more than likely completely nuke the playstyle, as they usually do with anything capable of standing up to a ball group, usually at the request of ball group players who would rather complain than adapt.

Personofsecrets · May 21

The only thing different between this type of cheesy PvP and historical types of cheesy PvP is nothing. Cheese or be cheesed.

Urzigurumash · May 21

Sedare38 wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Sedare38 wrote: »

again, 80% of the population are infinity tanks, healers, blockers, so why not allow some good ole quick ttk?

Wow where is this, what platform?

If you're fighting against EP, not there. most of them are sitting on a flag or repairing a door about to be bombed by easy mode dark convergence or agony + collossus bombers. DC has the majority of them in addition to AD, so look in towers at a resource, behind a box on an outer keep wall, or running up and down and up again in a corner tower of an outer wall. sometimes they also like to pretend to be foliage if they're out between keeps/outposts.

Right so PC NA GH? There's 6 servers and 3 pvp areas, so I was wondering which one. I assume PC NA GH is the most populated one.

edit: by 3 areas I meant also IC and BGs, it's even more if you count the other Cyros

SundarahFr3akinrican · May 21

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

Having @Decimus ' thread linked in here would be beneficial, too:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/692349/shattered-paths-signet-is-problematic

@ZOS_Kevin for visibility

Antrox41 · May 21

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Sedare38 wrote: »

DrGIggles80 wrote: »

To all those saying it's a problem with monomyth you are wrong . Funny how monomyth been around forever smd these pulse gankers haven't been a problem. As soon as signet hits they are a major problem..

This is a slightly incorrect take and I wouldn't call monomyth a problem nor the shattered signet. It's mostly been monomyth + subclassing (again this is a misnomer as what zos introduced is multi-classing since a class is taking on lines from another class but that's neither here nor there) with recuperative + crystal weapons being the main combo and this has been going on for months with monomyth.

Pulse builds in one form or another have existed prior to both the monomyth (and the signet) and subclassing as I've been using a version for years now. Subclassing empowered a version of the build even more, as did monomyth/signet.

Indeed. Like you, I have been pulse ganking since long before subclassing, and it was subclassing that pushed the gank into “1 GCD” territory with the C-Weap + Treatise combo.

Before subclassing, the build was more of a fun, frontline, spammy setup. It really only worked when you were either group ganking or trying to pressure someone down over time, and it did a good job at that. It was still an effective way to disrupt organized groups, log in, and have fun zerging the map down.

I will not deny that the gank is stronger than it probably should be, but knowing ZOS, whenever they decide to pull the trigger, they will more than likely completely nuke the playstyle, as they usually do with anything capable of standing up to a ball group, usually at the request of ball group players who would rather complain than adapt.

There is nothing to adapt to when there is practically zero counter play, especially when you have 5 people doing the same thing and 1 person pulling you... Tell me oh wise one, what is solution to "adapt" to getting pulled and 1 shot from 4 pulse gankers?

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · May 21

Antrox41 wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Sedare38 wrote: »

DrGIggles80 wrote: »

To all those saying it's a problem with monomyth you are wrong . Funny how monomyth been around forever smd these pulse gankers haven't been a problem. As soon as signet hits they are a major problem..

This is a slightly incorrect take and I wouldn't call monomyth a problem nor the shattered signet. It's mostly been monomyth + subclassing (again this is a misnomer as what zos introduced is multi-classing since a class is taking on lines from another class but that's neither here nor there) with recuperative + crystal weapons being the main combo and this has been going on for months with monomyth.

Pulse builds in one form or another have existed prior to both the monomyth (and the signet) and subclassing as I've been using a version for years now. Subclassing empowered a version of the build even more, as did monomyth/signet.

Indeed. Like you, I have been pulse ganking since long before subclassing, and it was subclassing that pushed the gank into “1 GCD” territory with the C-Weap + Treatise combo.

Before subclassing, the build was more of a fun, frontline, spammy setup. It really only worked when you were either group ganking or trying to pressure someone down over time, and it did a good job at that. It was still an effective way to disrupt organized groups, log in, and have fun zerging the map down.

I will not deny that the gank is stronger than it probably should be, but knowing ZOS, whenever they decide to pull the trigger, they will more than likely completely nuke the playstyle, as they usually do with anything capable of standing up to a ball group, usually at the request of ball group players who would rather complain than adapt.

There is nothing to adapt to when there is practically zero counter play, especially when you have 5 people doing the same thing and 1 person pulling you... Tell me oh wise one, what is solution to "adapt" to getting pulled and 1 shot from 4 pulse gankers?

Pop a Detect potion and run them down. The build is an absolute glass cannon that cannot fight back in an even fight against 99% of the builds or comps in the game.

Do you honestly think a pulse ganking squad can do anything other than zerg? That squad cannot leave the frontlines. They have to stay with the faction stack to take down a ball group, and they need to coordinate while standing inside 50+ players all trying to run down the same 12-man group in order to actually be oppressive and get results.

Are you really trying to say that if you GvGed a pulse ganking group, the ball group would be at a disadvantage? Because that is just not true. In an even fight, the ball group comes out on top every time.

Now, if you as a ball group player feel entitled to fight 12vFaction stack and pretend that is healthy for the game, that is on you. But the counterplay is simple: stack with your faction the same way they do and, poof, you will not die to that squad again.

Wait, you are already doing that. My bad.

epic-buttkkr · May 21

Your welcome.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · May 21

epic-buttkkr wrote: »

Your welcome.

You're*

epic-buttkkr · May 21

If your sending this thread to the team, then here Is some feedback from the guy who pushed this spec into the mainstream.

For any nerfs that need to come to shattered paths signet,
The priority should be while this mythic item is equipped and battlespirit is active, you can not crouch or go into stealth.
A damage nerf would also help, but just interfering the functionality of this mythic for this mythic on a ganker would fix the issue.

Second, because nerfing shattered paths will not be enough,

A Travel time should be added to the skill force shock. The reason the build works at all is because the timing between snipe and crushing shock syncs up perfectly to deal massive damage. adding a travel time to force shock would eliminate this build near entirely, making it easy to counter in pvp.

There is not alot you really need to change here to fix the widespread abuse of this build. If you want some more information on it, Here are the videos I made

https://youtu.be/J84kNEKhmnM

https://youtu.be/m4dONrFzifE

Antrox41 · May 21

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Antrox41 wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Sedare38 wrote: »

DrGIggles80 wrote: »

To all those saying it's a problem with monomyth you are wrong . Funny how monomyth been around forever smd these pulse gankers haven't been a problem. As soon as signet hits they are a major problem..

This is a slightly incorrect take and I wouldn't call monomyth a problem nor the shattered signet. It's mostly been monomyth + subclassing (again this is a misnomer as what zos introduced is multi-classing since a class is taking on lines from another class but that's neither here nor there) with recuperative + crystal weapons being the main combo and this has been going on for months with monomyth.

Pulse builds in one form or another have existed prior to both the monomyth (and the signet) and subclassing as I've been using a version for years now. Subclassing empowered a version of the build even more, as did monomyth/signet.

Indeed. Like you, I have been pulse ganking since long before subclassing, and it was subclassing that pushed the gank into “1 GCD” territory with the C-Weap + Treatise combo.

Before subclassing, the build was more of a fun, frontline, spammy setup. It really only worked when you were either group ganking or trying to pressure someone down over time, and it did a good job at that. It was still an effective way to disrupt organized groups, log in, and have fun zerging the map down.

I will not deny that the gank is stronger than it probably should be, but knowing ZOS, whenever they decide to pull the trigger, they will more than likely completely nuke the playstyle, as they usually do with anything capable of standing up to a ball group, usually at the request of ball group players who would rather complain than adapt.

There is nothing to adapt to when there is practically zero counter play, especially when you have 5 people doing the same thing and 1 person pulling you... Tell me oh wise one, what is solution to "adapt" to getting pulled and 1 shot from 4 pulse gankers?

Pop a Detect potion and run them down. The build is an absolute glass cannon that cannot fight back in an even fight against 99% of the builds or comps in the game.

Do you honestly think a pulse ganking squad can do anything other than zerg? That squad cannot leave the frontlines. They have to stay with the faction stack to take down a ball group, and they need to coordinate while standing inside 50+ players all trying to run down the same 12-man group in order to actually be oppressive and get results.

Are you really trying to say that if you GvGed a pulse ganking group, the ball group would be at a disadvantage? Because that is just not true. In an even fight, the ball group comes out on top every time.

Now, if you as a ball group player feel entitled to fight 12vFaction stack and pretend that is healthy for the game, that is on you. But the counterplay is simple: stack with your faction the same way they do and, poof, you will not die to that squad again.

Wait, you are already doing that. My bad.

Yeah they get one shot by a single leap then comeback 30 seconds later because of a camp or they get rezzed by the other 4 the scurry away like deer in headlights. Also to prove that gank squads dont need a zerg, I have recordings of a specific group of these clowns that do nothing but follow around the same ballgroup for hours on end. I have even have recordings of them 6v1 following and ganking individual group members who are just running around solo in cyro. Its borderline cringe behavior. Also no ballgroup GvGs a group of gankers, dont know where the hell you got that from. In fact, the only thing they do is actually disrupt GvGs which I also have recordings of because they do it constantly.

I find the vendetta against ballgroups laughably palpable, so much so that the solution that people like you want against them is to basically create a completely broken and utterly zero counterplay scenario which creates unbalance not just against one thing but all of pvp as a whole. We saw this with Blightseed back before ZoS decided the set was way to overtuned for PVP.

epic-buttkkr · May 21

Why cant I edit posts?
Im tryna make the videos show up in the thing
lemme try this

https://youtube.com/watch?v=J84kNEKhmnM&t

https://youtube.com/watch?v=m4dONrFzifE

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · May 22

Antrox41 wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Antrox41 wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Sedare38 wrote: »

DrGIggles80 wrote: »

To all those saying it's a problem with monomyth you are wrong . Funny how monomyth been around forever smd these pulse gankers haven't been a problem. As soon as signet hits they are a major problem..

This is a slightly incorrect take and I wouldn't call monomyth a problem nor the shattered signet. It's mostly been monomyth + subclassing (again this is a misnomer as what zos introduced is multi-classing since a class is taking on lines from another class but that's neither here nor there) with recuperative + crystal weapons being the main combo and this has been going on for months with monomyth.

Pulse builds in one form or another have existed prior to both the monomyth (and the signet) and subclassing as I've been using a version for years now. Subclassing empowered a version of the build even more, as did monomyth/signet.

Indeed. Like you, I have been pulse ganking since long before subclassing, and it was subclassing that pushed the gank into “1 GCD” territory with the C-Weap + Treatise combo.

Before subclassing, the build was more of a fun, frontline, spammy setup. It really only worked when you were either group ganking or trying to pressure someone down over time, and it did a good job at that. It was still an effective way to disrupt organized groups, log in, and have fun zerging the map down.

I will not deny that the gank is stronger than it probably should be, but knowing ZOS, whenever they decide to pull the trigger, they will more than likely completely nuke the playstyle, as they usually do with anything capable of standing up to a ball group, usually at the request of ball group players who would rather complain than adapt.

There is nothing to adapt to when there is practically zero counter play, especially when you have 5 people doing the same thing and 1 person pulling you... Tell me oh wise one, what is solution to "adapt" to getting pulled and 1 shot from 4 pulse gankers?

Pop a Detect potion and run them down. The build is an absolute glass cannon that cannot fight back in an even fight against 99% of the builds or comps in the game.

Do you honestly think a pulse ganking squad can do anything other than zerg? That squad cannot leave the frontlines. They have to stay with the faction stack to take down a ball group, and they need to coordinate while standing inside 50+ players all trying to run down the same 12-man group in order to actually be oppressive and get results.

Are you really trying to say that if you GvGed a pulse ganking group, the ball group would be at a disadvantage? Because that is just not true. In an even fight, the ball group comes out on top every time.

Now, if you as a ball group player feel entitled to fight 12vFaction stack and pretend that is healthy for the game, that is on you. But the counterplay is simple: stack with your faction the same way they do and, poof, you will not die to that squad again.

Wait, you are already doing that. My bad.

Yeah they get one shot by a single leap then comeback 30 seconds later because of a camp or they get rezzed by the other 4 the scurry away like deer in headlights. Also to prove that gank squads dont need a zerg, I have recordings of a specific group of these clowns that do nothing but follow around the same ballgroup for hours on end. I have even have recordings of them 6v1 following and ganking individual group members who are just running around solo in cyro. Its borderline cringe behavior. Also no ballgroup GvGs a group of gankers, dont know where the hell you got that from. In fact, the only thing they do is actually disrupt GvGs which I also have recordings of because they do it constantly.

I find the vendetta against ballgroups laughably palpable, so much so that the solution that people like you want against them is to basically create a completely broken and utterly zero counterplay scenario which creates unbalance not just against one thing but all of pvp as a whole. We saw this with Blightseed back before ZoS decided the set was way to overtuned for PVP.

You seem frustrated that you and your group got PvPed in an open-world PvP environment.

Ball groups are the strongest possible way to play Cyrodiil, so disrupting them is obviously going to be a priority for anyone with a brain. That is the entire point. You even prove it yourself when you say they do not GvG gankers. Of course they do not, because they would win. The GvG example was never me saying ball groups are actively setting up fights with gank squads; it was just to show the relative power level in an even, controlled fight.

A pulse gank squad relies on numbers, open fields, and the frontline environment to kill or seriously disrupt a ball group that actually knows what it is doing. Without that, they can slow them down, annoy them, maybe pick someone off, but they are not beating a proper 12-man comp in an even fight.

And please, for the love of God, do not call a PvP encounter “cringe.” You are in Cyrodiil. People are going to PvP you.

ioResult · May 22

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.

So this will get nerfed instantly but ball groups, Agony crutch bombers, and unkillable insta-smack DKs will still be the norm in Cyrodiil?

RaidingTraiding · May 22

One of the bigger issues here is not even pulse ganking, it's the desync from stealth ganks in general. Often times you die in 1 frame before the ganker pops out of stealth and the animations play. Not to detract too much from the discussion, but crouching causes a lot of these issues. if you've ever popped a detect pop on someone that's stealthed, or even seen an ally moving in stealth while crouched, they rubber band all over the place, while everyone else moves normally. Often times I will detect pot a ganker and I can't actually target them because they're just rubber-banding everywhere. To be clear this doesn't seem to occur while they just have cloak toggled or an invis pot on and are just moving normally, they have to be crouched, most of the time they will also be vampires with cloak active too. So if movement is that desynced and problematic with crouch you can only imagine how much worse it gets when people combo attacks from stealth and crouched, with everything designed to hit at the same instance. Then imagine a whole group doing that to 1 player at a time.

That being said, force pulse and crushing shock itself could also be causing issues, and should definitely be looked at, not only because it's grossly overtuned in potential total damage in a very small burst window, but also from a performance perspective, or whatever you want to call it. Bottom line is there's really no counterplay to this playstyle, and even less when it's consistently desyncing you.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · May 22

ioResult wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, wanted to follow up here. We have seen the feedback around Pulse Ganker. We know the combat team is investigating and we are sending this thread and video along to assist with their review. Nothing to update now on next steps, but the feedback is known. Appreciate everyone sharing their feedback on this and overall meta concerns.

So this will get nerfed instantly but ball groups, Agony crutch bombers, and unkillable insta-smack DKs will still be the norm in Cyrodiil?

That is exactly what I am saying. What is actually laughable is this being addressed before shield stacking, which has been a problem since Scribing was introduced.

Antrox41 · May 22

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Antrox41 wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Antrox41 wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Sedare38 wrote: »

DrGIggles80 wrote: »

To all those saying it's a problem with monomyth you are wrong . Funny how monomyth been around forever smd these pulse gankers haven't been a problem. As soon as signet hits they are a major problem..

This is a slightly incorrect take and I wouldn't call monomyth a problem nor the shattered signet. It's mostly been monomyth + subclassing (again this is a misnomer as what zos introduced is multi-classing since a class is taking on lines from another class but that's neither here nor there) with recuperative + crystal weapons being the main combo and this has been going on for months with monomyth.

Pulse builds in one form or another have existed prior to both the monomyth (and the signet) and subclassing as I've been using a version for years now. Subclassing empowered a version of the build even more, as did monomyth/signet.

Indeed. Like you, I have been pulse ganking since long before subclassing, and it was subclassing that pushed the gank into “1 GCD” territory with the C-Weap + Treatise combo.

Before subclassing, the build was more of a fun, frontline, spammy setup. It really only worked when you were either group ganking or trying to pressure someone down over time, and it did a good job at that. It was still an effective way to disrupt organized groups, log in, and have fun zerging the map down.

I will not deny that the gank is stronger than it probably should be, but knowing ZOS, whenever they decide to pull the trigger, they will more than likely completely nuke the playstyle, as they usually do with anything capable of standing up to a ball group, usually at the request of ball group players who would rather complain than adapt.

There is nothing to adapt to when there is practically zero counter play, especially when you have 5 people doing the same thing and 1 person pulling you... Tell me oh wise one, what is solution to "adapt" to getting pulled and 1 shot from 4 pulse gankers?

Pop a Detect potion and run them down. The build is an absolute glass cannon that cannot fight back in an even fight against 99% of the builds or comps in the game.

Do you honestly think a pulse ganking squad can do anything other than zerg? That squad cannot leave the frontlines. They have to stay with the faction stack to take down a ball group, and they need to coordinate while standing inside 50+ players all trying to run down the same 12-man group in order to actually be oppressive and get results.

Are you really trying to say that if you GvGed a pulse ganking group, the ball group would be at a disadvantage? Because that is just not true. In an even fight, the ball group comes out on top every time.

Now, if you as a ball group player feel entitled to fight 12vFaction stack and pretend that is healthy for the game, that is on you. But the counterplay is simple: stack with your faction the same way they do and, poof, you will not die to that squad again.

Wait, you are already doing that. My bad.

Yeah they get one shot by a single leap then comeback 30 seconds later because of a camp or they get rezzed by the other 4 the scurry away like deer in headlights. Also to prove that gank squads dont need a zerg, I have recordings of a specific group of these clowns that do nothing but follow around the same ballgroup for hours on end. I have even have recordings of them 6v1 following and ganking individual group members who are just running around solo in cyro. Its borderline cringe behavior. Also no ballgroup GvGs a group of gankers, dont know where the hell you got that from. In fact, the only thing they do is actually disrupt GvGs which I also have recordings of because they do it constantly.

I find the vendetta against ballgroups laughably palpable, so much so that the solution that people like you want against them is to basically create a completely broken and utterly zero counterplay scenario which creates unbalance not just against one thing but all of pvp as a whole. We saw this with Blightseed back before ZoS decided the set was way to overtuned for PVP.

You seem frustrated that you and your group got PvPed in an open-world PvP environment.

Ball groups are the strongest possible way to play Cyrodiil, so disrupting them is obviously going to be a priority for anyone with a brain. That is the entire point. You even prove it yourself when you say they do not GvG gankers. Of course they do not, because they would win. The GvG example was never me saying ball groups are actively setting up fights with gank squads; it was just to show the relative power level in an even, controlled fight.

A pulse gank squad relies on numbers, open fields, and the frontline environment to kill or seriously disrupt a ball group that actually knows what it is doing. Without that, they can slow them down, annoy them, maybe pick someone off, but they are not beating a proper 12-man comp in an even fight.

And please, for the love of God, do not call a PvP encounter “cringe.” You are in Cyrodiil. People are going to PvP you.

It is cringe if its clearly a vendetta bias against a single group, these were the same people running around spamming blightseed stacks.

How would you like it if someone followed you around for hours on end, pulling you constantly and ganking you with 6 people? My guess is you wouldn't. And yet you are over here acting like disrupting ball groups like this with a group of clown gankers is the solution to stopping them?

You see what i mean when I said how laughable this hate is towards ballgroups and how almost all solutions are way over the top and extreme to an extent that either breaks the entire balance of pvp as a whole or just is borderline toxic behavior with using known exploits to go against them.

So basically rather then address the underlining problem you'd rather condone terrible balancing and zero counterplay solutions.

Also stop with the passive aggressive tone, don't what you achieve by acting like that.

Antrox41 · May 22

Antrox41 wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Antrox41 wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Antrox41 wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Sedare38 wrote: »

DrGIggles80 wrote: »

To all those saying it's a problem with monomyth you are wrong . Funny how monomyth been around forever smd these pulse gankers haven't been a problem. As soon as signet hits they are a major problem..

This is a slightly incorrect take and I wouldn't call monomyth a problem nor the shattered signet. It's mostly been monomyth + subclassing (again this is a misnomer as what zos introduced is multi-classing since a class is taking on lines from another class but that's neither here nor there) with recuperative + crystal weapons being the main combo and this has been going on for months with monomyth.

Pulse builds in one form or another have existed prior to both the monomyth (and the signet) and subclassing as I've been using a version for years now. Subclassing empowered a version of the build even more, as did monomyth/signet.

Indeed. Like you, I have been pulse ganking since long before subclassing, and it was subclassing that pushed the gank into “1 GCD” territory with the C-Weap + Treatise combo.

Before subclassing, the build was more of a fun, frontline, spammy setup. It really only worked when you were either group ganking or trying to pressure someone down over time, and it did a good job at that. It was still an effective way to disrupt organized groups, log in, and have fun zerging the map down.

I will not deny that the gank is stronger than it probably should be, but knowing ZOS, whenever they decide to pull the trigger, they will more than likely completely nuke the playstyle, as they usually do with anything capable of standing up to a ball group, usually at the request of ball group players who would rather complain than adapt.

There is nothing to adapt to when there is practically zero counter play, especially when you have 5 people doing the same thing and 1 person pulling you... Tell me oh wise one, what is solution to "adapt" to getting pulled and 1 shot from 4 pulse gankers?

Pop a Detect potion and run them down. The build is an absolute glass cannon that cannot fight back in an even fight against 99% of the builds or comps in the game.

Do you honestly think a pulse ganking squad can do anything other than zerg? That squad cannot leave the frontlines. They have to stay with the faction stack to take down a ball group, and they need to coordinate while standing inside 50+ players all trying to run down the same 12-man group in order to actually be oppressive and get results.

Are you really trying to say that if you GvGed a pulse ganking group, the ball group would be at a disadvantage? Because that is just not true. In an even fight, the ball group comes out on top every time.

Now, if you as a ball group player feel entitled to fight 12vFaction stack and pretend that is healthy for the game, that is on you. But the counterplay is simple: stack with your faction the same way they do and, poof, you will not die to that squad again.

Wait, you are already doing that. My bad.

Yeah they get one shot by a single leap then comeback 30 seconds later because of a camp or they get rezzed by the other 4 the scurry away like deer in headlights. Also to prove that gank squads dont need a zerg, I have recordings of a specific group of these clowns that do nothing but follow around the same ballgroup for hours on end. I have even have recordings of them 6v1 following and ganking individual group members who are just running around solo in cyro. Its borderline cringe behavior. Also no ballgroup GvGs a group of gankers, dont know where the hell you got that from. In fact, the only thing they do is actually disrupt GvGs which I also have recordings of because they do it constantly.

I find the vendetta against ballgroups laughably palpable, so much so that the solution that people like you want against them is to basically create a completely broken and utterly zero counterplay scenario which creates unbalance not just against one thing but all of pvp as a whole. We saw this with Blightseed back before ZoS decided the set was way to overtuned for PVP.

You seem frustrated that you and your group got PvPed in an open-world PvP environment.

Ball groups are the strongest possible way to play Cyrodiil, so disrupting them is obviously going to be a priority for anyone with a brain. That is the entire point. You even prove it yourself when you say they do not GvG gankers. Of course they do not, because they would win. The GvG example was never me saying ball groups are actively setting up fights with gank squads; it was just to show the relative power level in an even, controlled fight.

A pulse gank squad relies on numbers, open fields, and the frontline environment to kill or seriously disrupt a ball group that actually knows what it is doing. Without that, they can slow them down, annoy them, maybe pick someone off, but they are not beating a proper 12-man comp in an even fight.

And please, for the love of God, do not call a PvP encounter “cringe.” You are in Cyrodiil. People are going to PvP you.

It is cringe if its clearly a vendetta bias against a single group, these were the same people running around spamming blightseed stacks.

How would you like it if someone followed you around for hours on end, pulling you constantly and ganking you with 6 people? My guess is you wouldn't. And yet you are over here acting like disrupting ball groups like this with a group of clown gankers is the solution to stopping them?

You see what i mean when I said how laughable this hate is towards ballgroups and how almost all solutions are way over the top and extreme to an extent that either breaks the entire balance of pvp as a whole or just is borderline toxic behavior with using known exploits to go against them.

So basically rather then address the underlining problem you'd rather condone terrible balancing and zero counterplay solutions.

Also stop with the passive aggressive tone, don't what you achieve by acting like that.

Also to be clear i am not saying ganking is an exploit.