GAMEBREAKING: Please nerf hirelings ASAP, or get rid of them altogether.

SDZald

Rantog wrote: »

.....

The concept of division between those who Raid/corporate game, and those who actually PLAY a game into separate categories with regard to what they can accomplish or what gear they can achieve - is a Failing concept.

It rewards players for treating the game like a Job. And aren't we all upset right now because a certain group of people are doing exactly that? Gold Sellers ring a bell?
The only difference is that Most raiders,etc don't spam the chat.

...

VERY WELL SAID! The people who are complaining about this for the most part are the power gamers who feel they should have some special right just because they power game. "How dare some casual gamer be allowed the same things I Uber gamer have."

Stop with this pointless nerf call, you play the game the way you like and let the rest of us do the same please. There is NOTHING broken about the current system. Special mats are not falling out of the sky just because I have a few alts with hirelings.

Inkedbettie

No

Daverios

If you do not think this is broken and exploitable think again. As you overlooked the obvious.

Tieberion

I wish my hirilings ever brought something good.
Ready to tie them up, and pass them in pieces thru the sawmill,
dunk them in the blacksmith water bucket, and grow geode crystals
on whats left at the enchanting station.
Typical response: I had a long day, but enjoyed working for you. Here is
a single piece of wood. thanks!

Brydion

I have 8 characters level 9 to level 16. They all craft and they all have 1 hireling except for the level 16 who has 4. So far I have gotten zippity doo dah from my hirelings. I think one epic rune, by comparison I have gotten 4 epic and 3 legendary crafting items for soaked bags from fishing. Perhaps over the long term that will change, but as acquiring the hirelings requires putting points into that skill and to acquire the points you need to level up the character to get the points and also level the craft which also requires more points and to level the character you need to put more points into combat skills. Well I think you get my drift. It may be possible eventually, but even if it is, it will be a very long hard road to get there. To call something a game breaker is easy, but that simply doesn't make it so. This all sounds to me like sour grapes by people unwilling to actually put in the time to achieve the "game breaking" results they project.

radiostar

What will happen next patch, you'll have to max out the craft line in order to get a helper. And still complaints!

Jenasy

lol i think u just told everyone how to do it

Jadeviper1974

I have to say this is the whiniest and silliest debate I have ever heard.

First of all, how many folks do you think are actually going to have multiple accounts just to get crafting items? Other than gold sellers of course and this won't even put a dent in their operations. I mean seriously.

You basic complaint is as stated somewhere above that "something isn't fair", well guess what neither is life, its an mmo, folks are going to find exploits, however most folks aren't going to spend an extra 100 bucks for crafting materials.

As for the person who "spoke with Zenimax management directly on this issue" I have a question. Delusions of Grandeur much? Let me tell you what happened right after you hung up with "management", which was most likely a secretary, whoever you were talking to turn to their desk and gave your comments their due, that is to say they went right back to what they were doing before you called and immediately forgot the conversation with you.

Ok, you don't like how something was designed so you think it should be changed to suit you, entitled much?

Gracious people grow up. The world isn't Burger King and you can't have it your way.

Wolfpaw

Hirelings are fine, and yes I do think the casual gamer dedicated to crafting/pvp should be allowed endgame materials.

Raid, vet, & leaderboards will provide their own loot. Play that content fun w/friends.

and yes if you have a 2nd, 3rd, 4th account it shouldn't matter, you're paying the subs have at it.

more players geared the better, mmo after all, not like we're some special unique snowflakes here.

Makkir

One thing they could do to deter this is to require you to actually log in on the character and have to "send" your Hireling out and will only return if you are online, or return the next time you log on.
I might be wrong but I am pretty sure Star Wars TOR is set up that way in how you can send your companions on missions to acquire resources. Its an actual action button you push in game that sends them out, and they return X amount of time later with random results.

Abeille

Makkir wrote: »

One thing they could do to deter this is to require you to actually log in on the character and have to "send" your Hireling out and will only return if you are online, or return the next time you log on.
I might be wrong but I am pretty sure Star Wars TOR is set up that way in how you can send your companions on missions to acquire resources. Its an actual action button you push in game that sends them out, and they return X amount of time later with random results.

This would be really cool. I read the mails that they send me (am I the only one?) and some of the hirelings seem like they could be pretty cool npcs, the kind of npc that I would like to meet.

LadyInTheWater

Jadeviper1974 wrote: »

As for the person who "spoke with Zenimax management directly on this issue" I have a question. Delusions of Grandeur much? Let me tell you what happened right after you hung up with "management", which was most likely a secretary, whoever you were talking to turn to their desk and gave your comments their due, that is to say they went right back to what they were doing before you called and immediately forgot the conversation with you.

LOL^ That was awesome

The only people who can make big decisions directly related to a published title aren't called "management" in the videogame industry.

It's possible, if he actually called Zenimax (probably through their customer support line) that the highest person he'd be passed to would be a CSR Lead, who would then proceed to go right back to doing what they were doing before he called and immediately forget the conversation with him.

If anyone's up for a good laugh, they should read Raph Koster's blurb about "Player-Generated Content". It's basically an overly-sarcastic, extremely melodramatic rant about players who want to change the games they're playing.

jircris11

i dont use the hireling system and i rather not see the "best" items in dungeons because i dont run them. If it was collectable on your own then i would go for it. i work as a gatherer for my guild crafter and make 50% of what she makes so yea.

Kuratla

Purple or yellow drops from the hireling is really rare... for hireling rank 1 and 2 anyway. I don't have any hirelings rank 3 yet. With hireling rank 2 in each craft (except Alchemy... which doesn't have hirelings) since not long after launch, I've gotten 1 yellow kuta only so far. Nothing else purple or yellow. Alts with hirelings rank 1 will, every once in a blue moon, give something really good. Gamebreaking? Seriously?

arrowzagub17_ESO

I don't see anything wrong with the hirelings. To me it is not as good as refining materials. At wood working 40 with some crafting skills I broke refined 100 oak last night and got 3 blue 2 purple and 2 yellow upgrades and a bunch of trait stones.

My hirelings got me 1 purple and 1 blue upgrade out of 6 bags

reggielee

they better not nerf hirelings after I took a week of gameplay to get mine set up and working. the drop rates for the rares are very low. by the time you get enuf your toon has leveled out of the range for the equipment. to be honest it would be easierfaster to just farm the armor and deconstruct it to get the resources.

y-o-r-i-sb16_ESO

I enjoy looting 21 chests. It's only 21 chests per day.. The chances for epic and legendary upgrade materials are not that amazing. With good luck you'll be able to upgrade one item to legendary per week. Big deal, you can buy the materials by farming gold faster than that.

Jadeviper1974

Laharl_Overlord wrote: »

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

Now, in your example, you're running 16 hirelings around the clock, and maybe pulling in 1 legendary temper every other day? It'd take you 80 days to pull in enough tempers just to upgrade all your items from epic to legendary. 80. That's nearly 3 months.

As for me, I'm running one character with hirelings, on one account (because I'm not an alt-stacking powergamer). That's 3 years and 6 months, based on YOUR average, before I gathered enough legendary tempers to upgrade all my gear to legendary.

And you want to NERF this....?

The proposed nerfs wouldn't nerf you, they would nerf only the people running hirelings on alts they don't level. It only makes sense for the devs to base the hireling loot on either points in hireling or character level (probably points in hireling). This only affects your scenario while you're low level, but crushes the hireling on 7 level 3 alts.

ok, so lets say I actually take the time to level and alt to the point that he can have 3 hirelings, then I take the time to run that alt around to get the skill points to actually put into the skill that gets me those hirelings. I have done the work to get those points, but you say I should not be able to get things from those hirelings because I am not actively playing the character right now.

Why?

I got the points I chose where to put them. So unless you are OK, with me determining where your points go on your characters then don't try to dictate where others spend their points.

Krym

therain93 wrote: »

The OP has made some very good points, both in regards to the technical outcomes (8x hirelings sending materials every 24 hours) as well as philosophical gameplay issues (how do 1-7x mules otherwise contribute to overall gameplay). The interesting thing is, every counter-argument appears to say "not a big deal", i.e. they acknowledge but don't want to change it.

you mean in addition to the other posts where he grossly exaggerated numbers? the math just isn't there, and how does it affect gameplay if people have finally a full set after MONTHS when the veteran ranks have increased in the meantime? which means they either run around in sub-par armor to save the tempers OR have parts of it that will be worse and worse over time. whoopdidoo

people say it's not a big deal because it simply isn't.a.big.deal.

the only thing remotely cheesy is the ability to open those mails with a higher level enchanter on the same account which only affects potency runes.

Krym

Laharl_Overlord wrote: »

The proposed nerfs wouldn't nerf you, they would nerf only the people running hirelings on alts they don't level. It only makes sense for the devs to base the hireling loot on either points in hireling or character level (probably points in hireling). This only affects your scenario while you're low level, but crushes the hireling on 7 level 3 alts.

and what loot would that affect? I could easily create a lvl4 legendary if I wanted to.

redwoodtreesprite

Adventure Level 5-6 characters are often also crafting alts as well. And the way this MMO is set up right now, and with the shared vault system so broken, one needs at least 4 characters that hold lots of stuff. This is not the player's fault, it is the game company's fault. They set it up this way, needing storage characters if one wants to craft. So what is so wrong with those characters also putting what points they have into hirelings?

A low level character does not even have that many points to put into hirelings.

This sort of thing has gone on in every MMO I have played. Raiders and those who like to fight mobs for loot getting offended when crafters can make comparible gear by a lot of of hard work.

Tell you what, make the level of hireling loot scale to the level of the crafter. Ah, but then you would complain that it is too easy to level a crafter (ever tried bringing up enchanting?) and that crafters should not get good items based on their craft level either.

Sigh....

Linrilasal

Honestly I think adding crafting loot to raids and dungeons is the most idiotic idea I ever heard of, Blacksmiths do not go out and slay dragons.
I like the hirelings the way they are, but then i am a normal person with 1 account and the alts I have do different professions and only have hirelings for those professions, and before reading this post i didn't even think about getting more from other professions. on top of all that i have had 2 legendary mat drops from those bags, most of the time it's racial stones that can be purchased from any crafting vendor and a few bits of leather/ore/cloth appropriate to my crafting level.
Honestly I think they could even improve the loot in the bags from the provisioner hireling, 3 different types of grapes once a day is a bit thin for that bag at rank 2.

Hellorush

Ok it is broken. The best way to make Zenimax notice is the extensive usage, exploiting.

So here is what you have to do if you want cheap effective alts with hirelings:

1) Create a character. Preferably AD side so you can Farm for motifs in the Vulkhel Guard bank when you check your alt. Also there is a skyshard on the bank roof if u need 4th skillpoint.
2) Skip a prologue. You end up level 3 with 3 skillpoints
3) Create 1 bow, 2 daggers and 2 light helmets of the same 14 lvl on your main and send them to that alt, Via bank (update: 1 dagger is enough as you get lowbie weapons which can be deconstructed as well. Also you get random armor from the box: if it is not Heavy - you also may deconstuct it for InspirationXP lowering number of helms required from 2 to 1.)
4) Deconstruct items on your "mule" to get 2nd lvl in 3 crafting skills (BS, WW, Cloth)
5) Go check the bookcases in town to get from 2nd to 3rd lvl in those skills. You may level them by deconstructing as well but it is more costly in mats.
6) Put points into hirelings.
7) Repeat for several alts

Optional: you have 1/3 skyshard, second as mentioned is on the roof and u may travel for third (nearest public dungeon or manor) that gives u 4th point to place into enchanting hireling. Can't remember the exact amount it is like 4 glyphs to Deconstruct (Update: 1 Slight +1 Petty glyph makes it from 1st to 2nd level of skill. Still 4 glyphs if they are Trifling)

Numbers are for jute/iron/maple/trifling only. U need less items made of higher tier mats. NB!: Deconstructs before reading books (!) for cheapest solution.

Krym

Linrilasal wrote: »

Honestly I think adding crafting loot to raids and dungeons is the most idiotic idea I ever heard of, Blacksmiths do not go out and slay dragons.

slightly offtopic, but it's a valid "catch-up" method in mmos with tiered raids. instead of dragging replacements through the lower tiers you equip them with crafted raiditems (which usually have no setbonus or not-as-good-but-almost as the set etc.). or the guilds can sell it for some money (repair costs, consumables) thus giving non-raiders a chance to get higher items without the need to raid.

however, this usually only happens a few months if not years into the game when the need for shortcuts arises.

Swordguy

without reading any posts, and only responding to the OP, I have gotten legendary (gold) upgrades from refining/breaking down high level materials. The entire premise about hirelings being a lazy/slimey way to gain upgrades is valid enough to need fixing, but it is not the "only way" to acquire these upgrades.

Mordenkaiser

Are you sure about this?

I only ask because I'm guessing they made the Blacksmiths chests tradeable, because I'm almost certain that your access to higher end blacksmithing materials is based on your actual skill level. (example I now only get Quicksilver ore from blacksmith boxes) I didn't actually see an alloy temper till my 40's (when my blacksmithing was at 8/9)

Quick show of hands, how many folks below say 6/9 have ever gotten a Alloy in a blacksmithing box? I'm curious.

rcrandall85

Has anyone realized that this is WHY a game economy exists? ZOS didn't create these items and left it to us because we're supposed to be the ones who create them and share/sell to other players.

Not to mention, this is an exploit that you can choose not to take advantage of. ZOS doesn't need to nerf anything. You need to exercise self control. If someone doesn't, the rest of us can simply decide we don't like someone who does this, and don't want to spend our time grouping with them and playing with them in general. Funny thing about social justice…we have to take on the responsibility of making those kinds of decisions, at least if we care enough about the issue to pay it any further attention.

I for one have 1 mule (which is a bank space exploit), and I have had SIX characters from day one. 1 Provisioner. 1 Smith/Woodworker/Clothier. 1 Alchemist. 1 Enchanter. 2 Combat characters. 1 for PVP, 1 for PVE dungeons, etc.

This way absolutely no skill points get spent on something the char. does not specialize in. My best Character is LVL 9 and I have more skill point abilities at my disposal than someone who's at LVL 40 on one character. I did this because crafting in this game is nigh on impossible to be good at the way you would be in any SP ES game, without spending a downright unhealthy amount of time playing this game. I refuse to let it consume my life that way.

To boot, one benefit is that I can encounter quests with one character and make different decisions with another, if I don't like the results. As far as I'm concerned, playing this way lets me get everything I can possibly squeeze out of the content ZOS has created for us. I get to see as much of it as I can, validating the effort they put into it in the first place.

I do agree, however, that good item drops should be available, even to players who want as little social interaction as possible.

brandon.2023b14_ESO

OK for starters,
1. the hireling only has a small chance of giving you epic and legendary upgrade mats if you have 2-3 points in it. 2 being for epic and 3 being for legendary as the first point covers both 1st and 2nd tier upgrade mats.
2. Because it is also a lottery it is a chance at getting them not guaranteed. Meaning not every lvl 3-5 character is getting these materials. Even if they were making a legendary piece of gear at that low a lvl is quite pointless.
3. The best gear can be crafted and looted. Many sets that have bonuses to hem are looted from various bosses rather than crafted from a locale. And since you can upgrade any item you pick up...I don't see the problem here.
4. Just because you may have found a way to farm these mats somewhat easily (still takes a bunch of them to make an upgrade with points in reducing the amount needed for an upgrade) doesn't mean you will have the mats In a timely manner for this to a be a huge issue.
5. And last but not least you can forget about your hirelings for a month at a time and then just open your mail and these items be waiting for you. Last I checked (I have the miner hireling by the way) you have to login each day to get the goods. If you leave it for let's say 2-3 days when you login you only get 1 goodie bag not 2-3. They did this on purpose to help prevent what you are talking about. If you or anyone else is able to login a week layer and have 7 goodie bags from each of your hirelings then your game is broken and you should talk to customer service if you are such an honest person. Otherwise enjoy the fact that you over many are receiving an odd exploit that gives you a slight edge.

reignfyre

Its pretty funny how incompetent they were at developing a craft system that could be so easily manipulated. If you are in the business of designing games, you need to be sure you have appropriate rules in place to either prevent or severely discourage/punish this type of behavior. People aren't playing ESO, they're playing the system. If you want to keep up, you have to do the same.

Surely these are not intended gameplay mechanics:

• Having a trade partner for deconstruction xp
• Leveling up your own alt in the same profession to trade deconstruction xp
• Having an account full of alts who's only purpose is to have an NPC hireling.

I'm sure these will be fixed in time, but this game was either not well designed or it just needed more development time. Did these issues not come up in beta?

a11051605

Ok first of all to get lvl 3 in hirelings takes lvl 28 or 32 of a skill and thus a significant amount of power lvling to get a mule to that, 2nd thats only good for one profession and not all. So great you can sink a bunch of money and time into a mule to get some free stuff once a day. Problem? No. Game breaking? No. 2 accounts with all mules like you said? Great more money on ur part. Mean time im going to be lvling and actually playing my guy and getting epic drops and blues and ext ext. Ultimate point? QQ noob.