The Crown Store has reached critical levels of immersion breakage

Ingenon

Sorry if this is a little off topic, but on the ESO Reddit there is a thread about the Crown Store Mammoths, and how some players are seeing lots of them in game How Tamriel looks right now

I'm expecting a group of players riding mammoths through town will break immersion for some folks.

SilverBride

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Molag Bol was the first big bad guy. Now he is reduced to dancing in town like some kind of clown, and having his dark anchors used by his enemies as ways to port around the world.

Things like this should never happen. It is completely immersion and lore breaking.

I've gotten my Soul back 30+ times from kicking his backside (EU/NA PC).

Not on the same Character.

JemadarofCaerSalis

spartaxoxo wrote: »

-snipped for brevity-

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I can see why it might be a bit immersion breaking to see several molag bals, people have been clowning on bad guys for ages. Someone pointed out above Charlie Chaplin clowning the 'Great Dictator', and I am sure it goes further back than that.

Jesters mocking royalty wasn't just a thing but an important way for royals to hear criticism of their rule. So Jester's Festival doesn't make any less sense. But other than that minor quibble, I agree with this 100%.

I think it is good that this game allows players to respond to the game world as they see fit. IRL there are a wide variety of responses to threats. And that includes open mockery. I don't want to get into politics but I have noticed that one of the responses to fear of the future is joking and mocking impressions of leadership. The worse the threat, the more carthasis in mockery and the more extreme the mockery gets.

This thread also inspired me to google real world examples of people mocking leaders in ancient times. And Socrates being mocked in a play with absurd humor by Aristophanes was cited as a contributing factor to his execution later by Plato.

The play also, however, remains notorious for its caricature of Socrates, and is cited by Plato in the Apology as a contributing factor to the philosopher's trial and execution.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clouds

In a world with illusion magic that allows mages to appear however they please, it makes perfect sense some would choose to bolster the morale of their fellow people by mocking the Daedric princes. Or even to use it to examine them philosophically through humor.

ETA
Obviously, not all players using these polymorphs would view as their character making fun of Molag Bal. Some may just want to look like him because they think it's cool or funny and aren't caring about the lore at all. But in-universe, it is only lore breaking if your own personal lore is it wouldn't happen. And ZOS shouldn't be expected to cater to only one type of player's idea of immersion and lore accuracy. Especially not in a franchise like the Elder Scrolls, which has always rejected the idea of strict canon.

Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like I didn't know that people mocked rulers all the time, nor that jester's festival was invalid because of it. I meant it more along the lines of 'we have people mocking rulers, so why wouldn't people want to mock evil rulers?'

I completely understand where the Jester's festival is coming from and that it has its roots deep in historical tradition!

Just wanted to clear that up (I can see how it came across as I was saying I can't see people mocking their rulers. I absolutely can!)

JemadarofCaerSalis

SilverBride wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

To reduce fear of something, you make it a joke?

We don't have to reduce our fear of something evil. Rather, if something is seen as a threat we fight it, and we continue to fight it as long as it's a threat.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Charlie Chaplin was a performer, this game has performers, so why wouldn't performers act like real world performers? There are people who write plays, the real world has people who write plays. Actors who play those roles.

Making a player look like Molag Bol and dancing around in town is not an actor playing a role.

That is how you deal with something, but other people deal with it differently.

Some people need to reduce their fear, because if they don't, they are helpless to do anything.

I personally wouldn't mock anyone, but rather just go out and do what needed to be done.

But, I also understand that other people find comfort in mocking things like evil. It boosts their morale.

Again, if we want the TES world to seem 'lifelike' we can't divorce it from reality. In reality, people find humor in all sorts of things, including things that are often macabre or morbid. There are a lot of entertainers who have went to boost the morale of the soldiers fighting in various wars, and they would do that in many different ways. Singing, dancing, clowning around, making fun of various figures and so on.

You don't know that particular player, so you don't know if their character is an actor who was stuck in a bad situation, or someone who gets over their fear of something by making it look ridiculous. (I mean, isn't there a whole Harry Potter Segment about how to combat something you fear by making it look ridiculous. Or did I imagine Snape dressed like Longbottom's grandma?) Yes, I know that the players that use it probably don't have deep character lore, they just like it. But, without knowing the individuals you can't know the specifics of the character.

And, again, because, yes Harry Potter and real life wars are 'real world', you can't make a realistic world, with people who react in realistic ways, without drawing on real world parallels. So, since ESO is set in a time of war, I would expect that people would react in a variety of ways, including some of them wanting morale boosting mockerys of the daedric princes they fear. Just as others would probably react negatively to that portrayal.

colossalvoids

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

The question isn't meant to mean we have lost our way. It is only to signal this: Some have expressed frustration with cosmetic direction and saying years prior have been better and more grounded. It is helpful to have examples to specifically point to the team and say, "some folks are frustrated with some of the flashier cosmetics and would want something like (Insert Example). In future planning, can we have more thought into some less flashy, more grounded content?"

It's the info I need to do my job effectively. The team has a plan and is carrying it forth. Everyone in this thread I think wants player feedback to have an impact in decision making. So getting that info as early as possible is the only way to make that happen.

Many players likely think you have lost your way, because we often have for many years said the same things over and over again, given plenty of examples but it seems to fall on deaf ears so it ends with we us stopping give examples and only vent out our frustration. People get tired of repeating themselves.

It's like the never ending player desire for less hip and crotch flaps or random pieces of metal on clothes, yet those keep coming.

Or the request for different daedra forms for sorcerer pets, such as fire atronachs, banekin, dremora, and all manner of daedra, as well as different animals for wardens, which is now clearly possible with the skillstyles. But what we get are just expensiver crown recolours.

Or some attention to werewolves, to give them different werebeast forms or just even different fur colours.

Or more lore fitting and practical skins, like people have wanted a skin for vampires that only hides their vampirism without badly photoshopped flowers and whatnot. Like don't even need to stop there, could have skins for different strains of vampirism. Which would also be nice for npcs too so all of these vampires who are clearly from different strains don't look to be from the same one. Don't have to stop at vampires either, like we have access to all manner of weird skins, but not a Briarheart skin?

More lore fitting cosmetics in general that are based on lore and the setting's style and theme, instead of making random things and then give them some thrown together description to justify their existence. It's like when you make a character for tabletop or some story. You make them according to the setting and fit into it, not make the setting bend and fit to them.
After all these years it baffles me how much feel and look like random mmo cosmetics while we are missing existing things both from visuals of the game but also lore. Like I can wear what looks like bad photoshop of flowers, butterflies, weird stained glass windows as body markings, but not tattoos and body markings similar to those seen in Morrowind. My nibenese don't have gaudy tattoos and magic runes. In fact, few markings actually look like tattoos. There's too bold, thick and dark lines.
I can make myself look like Molag Bal, which is such a mind boggling polymorph in the setting. It being an illusion doesn't make it better, because who would make themselves look like Bal especially during this time period? It is such awful taste. Guards and npcs should react!
Then we have polymorphs that makes us look like things that are very niche and are barely shown in the game.
But we can't look like hagravens, nereirds, fauns, and other more common creatures. At least minotaur and lich was added after a long time.

Don't get me started on how much I loathe many of the recall and resource harvesting customisations. Many are so loud and flashy they are a big cause of my headaches and eye pain. Here again we see the tacky use of something that feels so bad for setting, such as the Molag Bal polymorph, in the form of the dolmen. Ah yes, lets just teleport away using this tool of a daedric prince that has caused and is still causing so much destruction, death and horrors. Or it's a giant explosion of bright light and noise.
But we can't have a recall that looks like the typical portal we see so many npcs use? Maybe a simple one that is just stepping into and vanishing into shadows.

Then we have mounts... The never ending FX effects, which again why do they need to explode into existence, and bizarre looks that are getting more and more extreme on the same old skeleton. Even a lot of the supposed more grounded mounts are getting strange currenly, like the current crate season nix-ox which someone dipped into a tub of gold paint. The colours have a tendency to be way more saturated than the enviroment.
Something I'd love, would be if ZOS put in the effort and try make a new horse model that looks a bit more like a horse. I want more horses, which is the most used mount in Tamriel, and a new good base would go a long way.
A long time ago a friend once showed me the mounts of Lord of the Rings Online, which despite being quite old, has very nice mounts, especially horses which were the majority of the mounts. What really grabbed my attention, was that most of the mounts are normal looking houses, and the creativity and difference is done through various coats, some slight breed differences, but mainly very varying tack. So much varied and well done tack. Simple ones, armoured ones, ones for specific occupations and themes, ones in between etc. All with different styles that fit a culture, race, faction, some order etc. LOTRO mounts if anyone is curious.

Meanwhile the majority of ESO's mounts that are not apex ones all use the same boring tack in just different colours. Where are guars with tacks themed after each of the dunmer Great Houses and some argonian styles? Breton knights heavily armoured horses with heraldries (Was baffling High Isle didn't have a jousting themed horse) and fancy noble show horses from the finest Cheydinhall stable saved from the war. A redguard trader's camel and the armoured ones their guards would use etc.

More or less this ^

Auldwulfe

Yudo wrote: »

Anyone remember this?

Personally the dancer personality where people wiggle non stop is kind of odd...like what is wrong with them.

I just assume that they need to use the bathroom.....
It's sad that toddlers stand there squirming, when they could just deal with it, like adults.....

Auldwulfe

danko355

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Asikoo wrote: »

When you ask, "Is there a style or kind of cosmetic we have made in the past that you would like us to lean more into?" to me, that signals something I've been feeling for the past year or two: that the team might be lost when it comes to creative direction, especially regarding cosmetics.

It gives the impression that decisions are being driven more by monetization than by a clear, passionate vision for what Elder Scrolls is and that’s deeply concerning.

The question isn't meant to mean we have lost our way. It is only to signal this: Some have expressed frustration with cosmetic direction and saying years prior have been better and more grounded. It is helpful to have examples to specifically point to the team and say, "some folks are frustrated with some of the flashier cosmetics and would want something like (Insert Example). In future planning, can we have more thought into some less flashy, more grounded content?"

It's the info I need to do my job effectively. The team has a plan and is carrying it forth. Everyone in this thread I think wants player feedback to have an impact in decision making. So getting that info as early as possible is the only way to make that happen.

Just two words: hair dyes! I would pay any amount of crowns to be able to dye my high elf’s hair black.

Araneae6537

whitecrow wrote: »

It's a shame because I really liked the emote dances for that personality, but the idle animation is just so bad. No one would be like that all the time unless s/he was intoxicated. I didn't get it, because of the idle.

It would be great if personalities were adjustable, maybe in selecting what idle if any, so your character could be almost constantly moving or very still. I would use the Assassin personality from The Dark Brotherhood DLC, but the knife flipping is just waaay too often. I’m assuming a lot of people like more obvious or over-the-top, depending on your point of view, or there would be more like Deadlands Firewalker. I remember when it came out that some people wished it had random fireballs or something but to me, it is perfect.

spartaxoxo

whitecrow wrote: »

It's a shame because I really liked the emote dances for that personality, but the idle animation is just so bad. No one would be like that all the time unless s/he was intoxicated. I didn't get it, because of the idle.

I hotkey when I want to use it as my dance set because of the idle. The constant movement is irritating and weird after a while.

ArchMikem

Araneae6537 wrote: »

or there would be more like Deadlands Firewalker. I remember when it came out that some people wished it had random fireballs or something but to me, it is perfect.

I just collected the Firewalker personality because of the last two Events, and I'm now using it on two of my characters because of the new Idles, (and a new Jump animation!) I just wish it made you look a tad less angry. I really wouldn't have minded the addition of conjuring a flame in your hand while idle, since that's basic Destruction Magic.

salander7

First of all, I'm going to use The Good Place censor vocabulary because I appreciate the time of the ZoS staff not having to mod my post. I promise I didn't use any mildy bad sounding words, and you don't get paid enough to read through it. I'm going to do a massive ash post because I'm absolutely bored but I've seen and read too much bullshirt here. I do have a complaint for ZoS that I'm going to post in the end, in case you're interested in the actual feeedback. Or if there's not a character limit in forums.

For users reading: Please, brace with me, and read most of my answers. I had the time to do, so did you. Maybe you're shouting at me when you agree with me. Or maybe you're not shouting at me loud enough!

Starting with OP:

ArchMikem wrote: »

I ran into a dancing Molag Bal, in the middle of town.

Would that be okay if the dancing individual was a skeleton, a factotum, a draugr or a xivkyn? At least a Molag Bal illusion makes sense lore-wise, in terms of impersonating an important figure. Who the fork would polymorph a shirty skeleton for lore reasons? If you're equally bothered, then you're 7 to 8 years late. What took you so long?

Yudo wrote: »

Anyone remember this?
Personally the dancer personality where people wiggle non stop is kind of odd...like what is wrong with them.

On the image (skipped for compact message): You have to ramp in place for the sword arms to show. It's a meridia blessed horse, so give them a little room. Air atro vibes idk. People spent currency on that, and to be fair, they're a cool mount that feels somehow different. Even when 99% of the time, owners just fork on about their business and don't pop the arms out. You don't like that? I don't like mounts that drop a meteor when spawning, but I respect people's right to buy them, use them, and enjoy them. The joy they get from using them is probably way bigger than the discomfort I get from seeing things I wouldn't buy even if I could.
Same thing for the dance personality. It's odd, I agree. Do I like it? Absolutely not. Did I buy it? Nope. Did someone else buy it, probably because they liked it in a certain way? Kinda yea, so I think it's fine for them. Still, if you have an issue with Dancer personality, but not with Jester or Duchess, either you're just missing the point, or posting 7 years too late.

Chili_Pepper wrote: »

2018...Tamriel Hero looks like
2025...
We got what we deserve...

Cutting images again for the sake of simplicity.
As a vet player, this was the triggering comment for me to start reading. Congrats I guess. Tamriel Hero is a basic ash CP 270 player that got gifted ebon style, leeched the rest out of a guild bank and got a basic ash mount. "2025" is a cp800 player that chose to use bright colours because they found it funny and just got the achieves. It lacks sense of fashion or style, but at least they're doing something else than put a couple of heavy armor pieces together.
Are you bothered about the 2018 jack piece, the 2020 hat, the eyes that were in a trial skin in 2017, or any of the barely visible pieces that are likely old as fork? Or maybe it's the lipstick (basegame innit?), beard (basegame again?) and kinda funny looking personality that doesn't match because it is not what a male char should look like in your mind? I can probably guess most dyes in the pic, and the darker green is from blackwood or high isle (2021/22), the rest are from 2020, 2019 and 2017. If I'm right, you're 4 years late. If I'm wrong, correct me, and tell me you can't do that with Vivec blue, anequina orange, stone thorn pale green and some others. Go for it.
Legit, if it would be something similar to "why would these people mix these lore inaccurate styles", I would say "you're a bit of a lore geek, but I guess you have a point". But I simply sense you'd be alright if that char was a female one. Somehow. My spider sense is tingling strongly on this.

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Is there ever going to be an option to shut off the annoying visual clutter, lightshows, and explosion noises on our end?

At least, someone asking for something that makes sense, with a some sort of logical backing (people may have different conditions and get headaches, migraines, even seizures or whatever). Whatever others are using is fine, but mitigating their visuals for whatever reasons could be great. It is complex because how the game is built, but it is a great goal.

Referring to this because I don't want to sound as grumpier than I am, and I legit think this is the first non-staff post that is not ill intentioned in the first page. Thank you for being some sort of beacon of faith in esoforums, Vonnegut2506.

On to page two adventure! Hopefully it gets lighter!

Gegensmith wrote: »

If your "immersion" is broken by a character in flamboyant clothing dancing with a fan or another producing an illusion of a daedric prince, all you're doing is proclaiming just how enervated and anaemic your imagination is.

OMG page two is so far great. Poggers! If anyone disagrees, go check Almalexia or Vivec. They're flamboyant as fork, and they were more powerful than any of our chars! Not saying they were good people, just stating facts. I don't enjoy such flamboyant-ness, but hey, it's good for whoever enjoys it.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Do you enjoy being as insulting as possible within the confines of civility?

They were more civil than any of the previous comments they were referring to. And kind of way more than they deserved. I hope Gegensmith enjoys it, not gonna lie.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I'd pay so much for my werebear character to finally look right.

I don't think you're wrong in a way with your whole comment, but I think this sums up this whole conversation, therefore the citing.
You like an oblivion dress most people would likely ignore (even two decades long TES fans). Most people would not pay 1.8k crowns (quoting warden bear current style) for a WW style that changes your pets. That doesn't make it better or worse than any other, just stating that this in the end is both a game and a commercial endeavour. Numbers are numbers.

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

the game is simply causing me extreme discomfort, pain and nausea with all of this

If you're not exaggerating a single bit, I think any medical advisor would suggest you to stop playing this until either there's a solution. Not saying it shouldn't be, but if there's not. I would suggest lowering volume, brightness, contrast and adjust your setup to minimise this. If it's not working, prioritise health. If you're just playing that card (and ignore this if you're not), it's a serious thing, cmon.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

What I don't want to see is unnatural fur colors as Werewolf Transformation Skill Styles. It's okay if makes your werewolf look like a spirit (like the Totem of Brotherhood in TES V: Skyrim which summoned red spectral werewolves to aid you) but I don't want to imagine a werewolf dyeing their fur. There's a demographic for that, which I'm sure will spend a lot of money for such fur colors — but I am not part of that demographic.

With all due respect, the demographic needs to be big enough to be profitable. And WW are not that popular nowadays, even less after HA sorcs became such a popular option. I understand you're big time into werewolves, and completely respectable, but this game doesn't revolve as much as you'd like around that, it will never will. Don't expect WW sneak ever, it doesn't make that much sense, they're a >2m roaring mass of muscles.

Eclipse318 wrote: »

If I could pick just one thing to get rid of, it's the winged twilight FLAPFLAP pets always in my face everywhere I go.

FLAPFLAPFLAP. I agree with you, but I just found it funny, and for the sake of shirtpost I'm quoting you too. FLAPFLAPFLAP

16BitForestCat wrote: »

I have screenshots of the second person (RadagastTheRainbow) in that outfit at the 2025 Pride Parade in June. It was a wonderful visual way to show support for the LGBTQIA+ community!

My spider senses are not tingling wrongly, Re some previous quotes ago Read for sauce.

Asikoo wrote: »

ESO has completely lost all sense of identity, not just with its classes, but with everything in the game. If you don't agree with me, then explain how this "fits" within the Elder Scrolls universe.

Are cloth dyes not a thing in Tamriel? What's the identity loss otherwise in there? I could agree on the classes thing somehow, but I can see where are you coming from, so you're not even getting that
On to page 3, will I make it to the end?

Faulgor wrote: »

When all you see is jesters, everything seems like a joke.

I agree. People should be sadder, and miserable. The divines forbid they jest around! People are being funny and dorky while there's dragons! In my own homeland! Don't even ask about what am I going to do.
That's all the seriousness I'm going to express about this comment. That's what you get.

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

If we look at older radiant apex mounts, or even legendary, they were not so over the top.
Oftentimes people work best with parameters. To me, the more recent radiant apex mounts feel more like "design us something that will sell" instead of "design us something that belongs in Tamriel that will sell."

First of all: it's a company, one of their primary goals is to make money.
If you look at older apex mounts, you see they have effects. Now they don't. Given how radiant apex availability has increased (thank the EU laws for gem prices on radiants, NA), and all crown items in general (endeavours, again, EU laws), they have to increase the odds of players buying stuff. If the releasing rate of expensive fancy stuff is faster than people are able to pile up on endeavours they may pay for gems.
Don't see this? Check radiant apex vs apex difference in 2017-2018 to last few years, and tell me I'm wrong. Radiants were not that better compared to apex mounts. They made apex worse, radiants better (or having stuff tied to polymorph+mount, such in current crates or molag bal ones). Goal is clear: you won't set up with a 400 gem horse, you want the 2500 gems one).
Still don't see this? Why is a certain radiant priced 2500 gems, another one is 1600, another is priced 1200. Is it random?

whitecrow wrote: »

Thankfully I have never seen the swordhorse in the game. I thought it was a myth, like the Jersey Devil or Loch Ness Monster.

I don't want to sound wrong, but if you want I can show you my swordhorse if you're in PCEU. It's a really great creature. Goofy as fork, but not more than the toy mounts. Which no one has complained about, by the way!

theoverseer wrote: »

So...lore-friendly names are immersion-breaking, is that what you're saying? Interesting take. Would they be more or less immersion-breaking than say, for example, Hermione Potter or Thanos_1289? I'm genuinely curious.
Cordially,
Nerys Telvanni

I hope you're not supporting those impostors anymore.
Sincerely,
Theo Gorath. (my breton healcro me wanted to post for no reason. You can also guess the face).

TheRimOfTheSky wrote: »

Honestly guys the Crown Store realism jumped the shark a while ago.

Yes, back in... *checks notes* 1994, when TES Arena released. Did no one tell you this was a fantasy game?

Chili_Pepper wrote: »

didnt expect such a reaction on my post here, so let me explain.
[...] And i hope that players with opposite opinion will support us in realizing that option in game settings to turn off visuals that annoy some players. I do not ask to remove all that cosmetics, let it be, but to that players who want to see it. Thank you. Peace to all!

Your realise all the "cosmetics" you posted were all colour dyes for clothing, a hat and a face adornment, right? No flashy bits, nothing visually annoying. If it's for medical reasons, sure, hide the effects and dismiss my comment. If it's colours that are causing you migraines, use a filter, both characters and a random bright plant will cause that, not the outfits. If it's not that, I'm sorry, you just want to pretend that kind of things doesn't exist, but you can't find the way of politely saying. And no, by no means that's a middle ground, sorry. ESO is a fantasy game, but not one where you can choose what exists and what doesn't.
If you're genuine about this, think deeply about why do you somehow find that wrong, and it may surprise you. Not a conversation I'm having in this forum, since it's fairly political.

lostineternity wrote: »

I've been playing other multiplayer games that have settings like "hide non historical cosmetics" and it feels so good, if you want to play COD like lobby with Nicky Minaj and Peter from Family Guy you are welcome, if not play without.

Hello lostineternity. I can reccommend you games that have historical style cosmetics where you are a knight and fight with a Zweihander with a accurate century and location brigandine and klappvisier. For the sake of realism, you can also be a dwarf, carry a lute and play metal songs. While you're installing these games, I may tell you this is a fantasy game, and a at least a partly profit driven company. Last time I checked, Fortnite sales were outpacing any realistic milsim by a lot.

Not sure I'm making it to the end of page four.

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

The hooks are immense magical constructs, designed to break the boundaries between Oblivion and Mundus; they hook into the ground and the great chains attempt to pull Nirn into Coldharbour. [...]
Turning a world event into a simple player animation makes it non-threatening.
Meanwhile a recall like this one sparks great joy as it doesn't violate my eardrums and feels natural to it's surroundings. It's visuals can also easily be connected to different player figure stereotypes such as druids, hedgemages and alike.
This enables a players creativity.

It is called commuting. Not everyone has a direct Vvardenfell-Deshaan private jet. I doubt dolmens are threatening to anyone that made it past CP300 or played ever in a group in the last 8 years.
Meanwhile the second one is only used by none but freemium players. With all due respect, either leaves fit the char theme, or the dolmen is just nicer. Maybe they do prefer something else. But that's the fun part: everyone can choose!

SilverBride wrote: »

Why should exploding loud and bright mounts and recalls take priority over not wanting to be subjected to painful bursts?

Adding a new mount with X effect and sounds that are already coded is easier and more profitable than removing all those assets in particular from playing in a certain user game client, which would also be terrible if it was not a free option for everyone. Not saying it shouldn't be done, just answering your question.

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Many players likely think you have lost your way, because we often have for many years said the same things over and over again, given plenty of examples but it seems to fall on deaf ears so it ends with we us stopping give examples and only vent out our frustration. People get tired of repeating themselves.
Or some attention to werewolves, to give them different werebeast forms or just even different fur colours.
[...]Don't have to stop at vampires either, like we have access to all manner of weird skins, but not a Briarheart skin?
[...]One of favourite mounts are the Baandari apex mounts, just because they are normal looking animals with interesting and well done tack. I could be without the constant silly holding of the compass, though.
Thanks for reading my TED talk. Have a potato 🥔

The fact you're posting often the same things over and over doesn't mean you're right. Just that other people are not bothering to say something else over and over.
Werewolves are not as common nowadays, because right now, they're a terrible choice for many reasons. If people are not using WW, they'll likely not buy a skin for WW.
You complain about lore breaking, then you compare vampirism to briarhearts? Last time I checked reachmen were not a playable race, so tell me if an altmer briarheart is not even more lore breaking. It's alright that you want that one.
One of my moast loathed mounts are the Baandari apex mounts, with the exception of the spider. They look like legendary mounts with lazy aesthetics. Spider just has the compass ring around and a small canopy. I got the wolf as a random drop, made me felt I just got scammed (and I love wolf mounts). Not saying I'm right and you're wrong, but that different people have different opinions.
Stealing the potato part of your message for mine.

SilverBride wrote: »

Charlie Chaplin was a real world performer 100 years ago. Anything he did is not relevant to what happens in a game world today.
Clowning around at our own leaders isn't the same as demeaning the first big bad guy in the game, and reducing him to a joke.

And he's still smh a pivotal reference in all comedic representation, both in comedy and non comedic environments. Not only he is still relevant if you know stuff around, he was just still keeping up with many trends that had been around for millennia.
We usually don't clown in real world about daedric princes due to the minor fact that they're not real. For the sake of clowning about the top big guy in the game, check The Funniest Joke in the World, by The Monty Python, and check who are they mocking. You can tell me it's 55 years old comedy. I'll still tell you they have more impact on nowadays comedy than The Beatles have in music. I would give more modern references if they were as noticeable without the retrospective (who's the biggest worst guy in real life right now, for every person in the world?).

Prophet_of_Malacath wrote: »

I'd buy an Echatere mount - we see them used by merchants as pack animals, herded by Clan Shatul, in the wild, etc. I'd buy a silt strider pack companion after seeing NPC merchants & Ashlanders traveling with them.
Gloomspore Mounts (in Blackreach)? Vampire thrall skins? Lamp Knight armor? What they all have in common is that they have in-game representation and thus players can form attachments to some or come up with cohesive reasons to have one. One group of friends all got Gloomspore mounts after an adventure in Blackreach, figuring we already had a mycoturge in the guild & OOC it'd be our little memory of the expedition.
Not Great?
The "Ice Wolf" claims Nords of Hjaalmarch ride them yet no one in Morthal does - they only have 4 horses in their stables.
The "Black Bear" claims warriors use them as mounts in northern High Rock & Skyim - but Shornhelm's stables are all horses.
These aren't even obviously glowy mounts - an overwhelming amount of the time, humans either (1) don't use mounts or (2) only have horses. I feel like I'm being pranked each time a mount claims to be used by humans & yet never appear unless its a horse.
I'd argue some of the consistently strongest Crown Crate products are the styles & weapons - I love seeing Lamp Knight on NPCs, I'd love to see Betnikh orcs wearing Seamount style, etc.
The strongest crate items are always the ones one would be willing to use on an NPC in-game. If something is too zany for that low bar, then it's going to be distracting.

It's a constant I, I, I. But your priority doesn't necessarily align with other people's. I can tell you the current Mammoth is outselling any Echatere they release. Gut feeling, but I know I'm right. Not saying you're wrong about liking A or B more, just saying it's a money game. I'd love if crown stuff got more representation, it would work great for marketing purposes too, quick "buy now option" if available or saying source. But there's a minor issue: Content is designed months before crown crates are released or even done. So it could end up being a mess. Asking for basegame content to be redone to market crown crates stuff (and some of them being legendary mounts that can't be told from many others and are not going to grab any looks) is just not having a grasp of how things work.
On non horse mounts... sure, people don't ride wolves or senches often. But it covers different demographic, it's just a different model anyway. If you want the horse, buy the horse. If you simply want all mounts to be a horse, what about next guy saying he wants all guars? Right now both can buy one.
Lamp Knight has already been used in-game, in the scholarium quest line, which is not a minor thing nor a sidequest. Betnikh was developed at least 12 years ago, so unlikely it lands 2022 content. Source: I played beta.
Zany: surprisingly different and a little strange, and therefore amusing and interesting. Maybe some people find that amusing and interesting. You may not. Both is good.

Okay page 5 here we go.
Surprisingly, nothing I want to comment on page 5.

As promised for @ZOS_Kevin , feedback: I feel effort in last years Apex rewards has lowered. Introducing lazily done skins (Sanguine's Disciple original textures, as an example), personalities and others as apex when they could be legendary, while the apex mounts feel less valuable, and the gap between radiant apex and apex being bigger than ever. Stuff like a little glow, a little animation, a subtle trail is something I personally value. Others may not. I understand it's also about monetisation, time, teams management and a lot of other things, and last decent apex mounts were in 2022, so maybe I'm late on this. Current radiant mounts feel a bit too much sometimes, but not that terribly. Spellscar Quasigriff is probably the epythome of tacky. But I also see people using it, so it may be my taste.
On Crown Store stuff, selling a Mammoth is something special and anticipated enough, so we probably don't need to have a flashy mammoth next year in crown crates. It will also make many feel they wasted 4k crowns because the new one is just fancier. Sales can be boosted by mini-events, just put it on sale for short periods every now and then (like the Great Dark Stag), have a small event related to social media to boost game visibility for a chance of a free mammoth code for participants. Brainstorming here, just quoting things that have worked somewhere else in similar scenarios.
Just giving feedback as a customer, do with it what you feel.

If you made it here, reader, thanks for reading my book. If you read it completely, it'll be available in audiobook format already, probably. Have two potatoes 🥔🥔. If you just read this last bit, please, don't steal the potatoes.

Erickson9610

salander7 wrote: »

Don't expect WW sneak ever, it doesn't make that much sense, they're a >2m roaring mass of muscles.

Why are there werewolves sneaking in the world of Tamriel, then? Why does Hildegard say she is sneaky in her werewolf form?


Why were werewolves able to sneak in TES III, but in their next appearance in TES V (which ESO heavily derives from) that functionality was forgotten?

Why are there already sneaking animations that are made specifically for players to use in werewolf form? Why is such a basic, fundamental gameplay mechanic disabled for werewolves, but allowed even for other transformation types which are far larger than them?

Make it make sense. Werewolves do sneak/prowl in the world of The Elder Scrolls. The player could do so in previous titles, and NPCs do so in this very game.

Chili_Pepper

salander7

conspiracy theories, Political context...omg...
things much more simple. I want to have an option to see game world as it supposed to be by its lore. By switch off in game settings "turn off not-combat pets, turn off costumes, mounts, polymorphs and so on"
i dont ask to REMOVE anything, that it should not EXIST. Im ok with that other players enjoy it.
Do not try to change my mind how ESO should look. I respect your opinion.
I think there should be a bit more flexibility in visual game settings, so every player could choose how he want game world look like.

"I've been playing other multiplayer games that have settings like "hide non historical cosmetics" and it feels so good" (lostineternity)

All this arguments about we will never see this option of adjustable visual effects because all this stuff bring money to developers will never make sense to me. Axioma is that developers make games for players (i still blindly believe in that auditory is more important than cash), and if some percent of players request that option to be done - that should not be ignored

konrad.reibinger

Absolutely agree with OP. Tried several times to return to the game, but eye-burning pets/mounts/polymorphs from the crown store always keep me away.

nightstrike

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all,

Wanted to follow up here. The goal is always to provided a balance of more grounded yet cool items and more fun/ fantastical items as well.

We have taken note and shared feedback when some items may push that balance a bit far, like our 4-sword horse friend. (I find this mount fun, but totally understand it can be super jarring.)

However, the item selections are meant to give you the player tools to be creative and have fun. Sometimes player choice will lead to a dancing Molag Bal, as jarring as that can be. But between the Crown Store items, in-game items and in-game event items, there are plenty of choices to make a more grounded experience for yourself and for others if they so choose. Some may go down the route of Sheogorath for a more maddening experience, but they should have the option to do so as well.

All that being said, happy to take any additional feedback to the team for their consideration. Is there a style or kind of cosmetic we have made in the past that you would like us to lean more into?

Thanks for any feedback give here. And please be mindful when submitting feedback that you remember community guidelines.

It's perhaps a slightly different take on the thread, which is focusing solely on the crown store, but I find that many player effects are completely out of place. Actually, they're completely out of *world*. If you look at the arcanist, for example, many of those effects are more akin to a 2d icon than an in-game effect. If I slam my staff down and create a wall of fire, I see real fire cracking through the ground. If an arcanist does..... literally anything... it displays solid color geometric shapes on my HUD. This is closer to a HarvestMap indicator than an in-world effect. I have noticed this trend over the past couple years whereby the effects are somehow so far removed from the game that they are no longer real things happening in Tamriel, they are GUIs on my computer screen. That's a crazy amount of immersion breaking. Though every single piece of the arcanist fits this description of being totally out of game (Venom-inspired tentacles?), this complaint is not limited to just the arcanist. It's any visual that is not part of the game world.

Beyond that, the shear amount of effects on the screen make even 4-man dungeons impossible to see what's going on. I don't find that enjoyable, I find it tedious (and dungeons are already an unpleasant, even dreadful (as in, unwanted) experience due to raging tanks and sprinters). This is beyond polymorphs and mounts, this is just basic gameplay. I hate it. Completely.

This coincides with the UI redesign from the last update. The flat look of the UI is completely out of place in a lore-heavy RPG. It's as uninspiring as the 2d arcanist effects that I keep harping on (it's a common class, so they're everywhere, and they are sooooooo jarrrring....... hands down the worst artwork in the entire game), and it makes me feel like I'm using an "idiot-mode" user interface instead of the immersive sophsitication more typical of a TES game. Just to take one random example, in the pre-46 UI, the menu icon for the journal was a weathered book with subtle signs of wear, dimension, and history, capturing the weight of my adventures past and present. The present icon is........... an icon in a HUD. Sigh. I hate it. I hate everything about the new post-46 UI.

This is a slight tangent, but.... I cannot stress enough that the worst part about the large amount of bad cosmetics is that if I ever find a good one I might want, it's either locked behind gambling (which is *horrible*), or it's on a timer, which makes me refuse to purchase based on *principle*. I have 170,000 crowns that I won't spend because of this. The only thing that should ever be time limited is a sale. It's a digital store, you don't have to play toxic mental games with your customer base to trick them into buying things because of an artifical timer. That's disingenuous at best and predatory at worst. And before you or anyone else at ZOS censors this post, I have emails *from ZOS* explaining that you do the fake time limits exactly to coerce people to spend more crowns.

Anyway, as far as art direction goes, my overall impression (that I suppose I should have started with, because nobody will read this far) is that the art at the start of the game was cohesive, intentional, and part of the Tamriel world building. While it was somewhat simplisitic even by 2014 standards, it was REAL. Somewhere along the line, likely coinciding with what I assume were staffing changes, it fell into a disarray of over the top, out of place, out of game, random nonsense.

[Note also that I previously made similar comments about other non-art-specific areas of the game, so I think this is a general trend whereby artistic direction of core content is largely unfocused. This was in relation to feedback about a video that ZOS made for the release of I think High Isle, and you asked for feedback about it.]

NoticeMeArkay

salander7 wrote: »

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

The hooks are immense magical constructs, designed to break the boundaries between Oblivion and Mundus; they hook into the ground and the great chains attempt to pull Nirn into Coldharbour. [...]
Turning a world event into a simple player animation makes it non-threatening.
Meanwhile a recall like this one sparks great joy as it doesn't violate my eardrums and feels natural to it's surroundings. It's visuals can also easily be connected to different player figure stereotypes such as druids, hedgemages and alike.
This enables a players creativity.

It is called commuting. Not everyone has a direct Vvardenfell-Deshaan private jet. I doubt dolmens are threatening to anyone that made it past CP300 or played ever in a group in the last 8 years.
Meanwhile the second one is only used by none but freemium players. With all due respect, either leaves fit the char theme, or the dolmen is just nicer. Maybe they do prefer something else. But that's the fun part: everyone can choose!

It's difficult to take you serious when your unrequested response to a players feedback adressed at Zos is to blow things out of proportion, overdramatize the actual contains of the feedback itself to fit your narrative and try your hardest to find an attack towards your preferred demographic while insulting the other one as "Freemium-players". Not leaving out the fact that the "leaves recall" is very much not just used by your so called "Freemium-players" as for example I prefer it immensely together with the mages guild recall even though I do occasionally spend money on the store. You could have, of course, just asked tho before making false assumptions. - The only thing you managed with your comment is to draw a rather ugly picture of the people waiting on the other end of the stick beside you. Greatly unfair to those, I'd say.

Major_Mangle

Ohhh no......

Anyway....

whitecrow

Araneae6537 wrote: »

whitecrow wrote: »

It's a shame because I really liked the emote dances for that personality, but the idle animation is just so bad. No one would be like that all the time unless s/he was intoxicated. I didn't get it, because of the idle.

It would be great if personalities were adjustable, maybe in selecting what idle if any, so your character could be almost constantly moving or very still. I would use the Assassin personality from The Dark Brotherhood DLC, but the knife flipping is just waaay too often. I’m assuming a lot of people like more obvious or over-the-top, depending on your point of view, or there would be more like Deadlands Firewalker. I remember when it came out that some people wished it had random fireballs or something but to me, it is perfect.

Yes, I used the Assassin way back but the constant knife twirling was irritating! I bought the Brassy Assassin when it was available and haven't looked back. It's the only personality I can tolerate. Even with that I feel the position changes could be less frequent.

Julia_Nix

My brother in Azura, this is an MMO. Other people play this game too and have their own head cannons, their own immersions and some just want to goof around. If you want total immersion that suit your own style you should play the single player Elder scrolls games instead.

Mathius_Mordred

Not even close. Tamriel is a land of magic where the impossible is possible, be prepared for the unbelievable coming to the Crown Store near you soon. If you don't like it there's always the single player games.

SilverBride

Players that prefer a more realistic atmosphere, such as ESO used to have, should not have to accept being constantly assaulted in towns by loud and exploding bright flashes of light every time someone mounts up or ports out. What we prefer should be given equal consideration.

These effects should be muted in towns, and/or a toggle provided for the player to turn these effects off or way down, so everyone can enjoy the game how they prefer.

Cellithor

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all,

Wanted to follow up here. The goal is always to provided a balance of more grounded yet cool items and more fun/ fantastical items as well.

We have taken note and shared feedback when some items may push that balance a bit far, like our 4-sword horse friend. (I find this mount fun, but totally understand it can be super jarring.)

However, the item selections are meant to give you the player tools to be creative and have fun. Sometimes player choice will lead to a dancing Molag Bal, as jarring as that can be. But between the Crown Store items, in-game items and in-game event items, there are plenty of choices to make a more grounded experience for yourself and for others if they so choose. Some may go down the route of Sheogorath for a more maddening experience, but they should have the option to do so as well.

All that being said, happy to take any additional feedback to the team for their consideration. Is there a style or kind of cosmetic we have made in the past that you would like us to lean more into?

Thanks for any feedback give here. And please be mindful when submitting feedback that you remember community guidelines.

I really liked the Silyanorn Ayleid weapons and was a bit disappointed that there was no matching armor.

I'd also like to call out the dremora face and body markings from the Flame Atronach crates. These are the markings that can be found on Dremora in Oblivion and Skyrim even though Dremora do not look like this in ESO. I think the Crown Store is a great vehicle to bring in designs from the "main" titles. For example, a 6 piece armor style based on Oblivion's Daedric armor would be amazing.

zaria

SilverBride wrote: »

Players that prefer a more realistic atmosphere, such as ESO used to have, should not have to accept being constantly assaulted in towns by loud and exploding bright flashes of light every time someone mounts up or ports out. What we prefer should be given equal consideration.

These effects should be muted in towns, and/or a toggle provided for the player to turn these effects off or way down, so everyone can enjoy the game how they prefer.

Except it was not an option as some people like them.
Note that the endeavors makes them much more common.

For this one, she is only here to farm

Kid is obviously from AD main quest.

zaria

Now why does not body marking use the skin layer on khajiit and argonians, this one looses her stripes.

Renato90085

I mean,if my first god slayer run no member wearing wedding dress ,I will agree you.

SilverBride

zaria wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Players that prefer a more realistic atmosphere, such as ESO used to have, should not have to accept being constantly assaulted in towns by loud and exploding bright flashes of light every time someone mounts up or ports out. What we prefer should be given equal consideration.

These effects should be muted in towns, and/or a toggle provided for the player to turn these effects off or way down, so everyone can enjoy the game how they prefer.

Except it was not an option as some people like them.
Note that the endeavors makes them much more common.

What was not an option? To have a more realistic world like ESO used to be?

If other players like a bright and loud cartoony experience then that is fine for them. But many of us don't and we shouldn't have our experience ruined over it. Our preferences are just as important as others but we aren't being given any options to play in the world as we once knew it, and as we prefer.

tomofhyrule

SilverBride wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Players that prefer a more realistic atmosphere, such as ESO used to have, should not have to accept being constantly assaulted in towns by loud and exploding bright flashes of light every time someone mounts up or ports out. What we prefer should be given equal consideration.

These effects should be muted in towns, and/or a toggle provided for the player to turn these effects off or way down, so everyone can enjoy the game how they prefer.

Except it was not an option as some people like them.
Note that the endeavors makes them much more common.

What was not an option? To have a more realistic world like ESO used to be?

If other players like a bright and loud cartoony experience then that is fine for them. But many of us don't and we shouldn't have our experience ruined over it. Our preferences are just as important as others but we aren't being given any options to play in the world as we once knew it, and as we prefer.

I imagine there are a lot of PvPers who also want the option to play in the world as they once knew it, and as they prefer. You know, before all of those solo PvE players came over trying to turn their Elder Scrolls themed PvP MMO into a TES6 facsimile...

In the world of Live Service, games will change as they pivot to different audiences. It's life. I'm not happy with every move that ZOS has made lately, but I can find parts of the game I like and avoid those I don't. But as for all of the things in game, there are actually lore blurbs showing how each flashy mount and silly polymorph is part of the lore of the world. And part of an MMO is realizing that if other people are around, they have just as much right to play the way they want. "Play the way you want" does end when you're demanding someone else do something.

And technically there is an option if you're looking for a solo Elder Scrolls experience with nobody else around to flash anything in your face. I use the PTS off-season if I want to take screenshots in complete isolation. That's absolutely what you are looking for - a place where you can do the quests and experience the story where nobody else is around and you exclusively see your cosmetics, with nothing and nobody else there dropping 'lore-unfriendly' things in your face.

Onomog

I see ESO sliding slowly towards a Fortnite type of style, where anything goes as long as it can sell in the store. I don't think it takes it's own setting seriously anymore.

It's a major reason why I rarely log in for very long anymore (that, plus the random lag), and when I do I spend the time in my house decorating.

sarahthes

Onomog wrote: »

I see ESO sliding slowly towards a Fortnite type of style, where anything goes as long as it can sell in the store. I don't think it takes it's own setting seriously anymore.

It's a major reason why I rarely log in for very long anymore (that, plus the random lag), and when I do I spend the time in my house decorating.

Given it's the same overarching community that replaced dragons with Thomas the Tank Engine, I think a lot of the flashy stuff is kind of on point.

SilverBride

tomofhyrule wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

What was not an option? To have a more realistic world like ESO used to be?

If other players like a bright and loud cartoony experience then that is fine for them. But many of us don't and we shouldn't have our experience ruined over it. Our preferences are just as important as others but we aren't being given any options to play in the world as we once knew it, and as we prefer.

I imagine there are a lot of PvPers who also want the option to play in the world as they once knew it, and as they prefer. You know, before all of those solo PvE players came over trying to turn their Elder Scrolls themed PvP MMO into a TES6 facsimile...

These are 2 very different things. PvP is a playstyle, not cosmetics.

But just to make it clear, I always say no to threads asking if we should do away with PvP, or if there should be PvE versions of Imperial City or Cyrodiil, because even though I don't not do much PvP I don't think those zones should be turned into PvE playgrounds.