Do we get to tell Tanlorin to back off?

Credible_Joe

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I will say that I do agree that Tanlorin feels too modern. It's to the point it breaks immersion for me a bit. It's not their pronouns or their flirting. Those things remind of Jakarn or Frii. I think Tanlorin is actually less aggressive in their flirting than Jakarn or Naryu, personally.

It's their overuse of modern lingo like "taking up space," that does it. They feel like a Marvel character but Marvel movies are set in a current setting. Also I dislike that their perk's UI elements makes it feel like lock picking is no longer my own skill.

This is an interesting point, because defining what's "Modern Language" in Tamriel is extremely nebulous. It's easy to forget due to the scope of the timeline, but the setting ranges entirely from classic high-fantasy to full-on steam punk, edging into arc-tech. And sometimes that range isn't even set chronologically, it can be simply geographic. Rustic, techno-conservative locales like Eastmarch or Wrothgar can be written full-on classical. But places like the Dunmer, Imperial, and Aldmeri capitals can be very modern, especially as the timeline progresses. Both of those examples can 100% coexist in the same time period.

What hasn't been explored (or has been explored very little) is a cosmopolitan analogue to our standards of modern life, in aesthetics of both fashion and architecture. An artist posted their take on what this might look like on the subreddit a while back, and I really liked the potential it had: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1dkabfu/assorted_eso_artworks/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

ZOS_GregoryV

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allochthons

When the new companions were announced, I was leary of Zerith-var, and really excited for Tanlorin.

Tanlorin's flirting turned me off instantly. It comes across as distinctly creepy, and waaaaaay too stereotypical. Once they were leveled, I was done with them. I really wish we could turn that dialog off.

(And I really like Zerith, ironically. But Sharp is still +1)

JemadarofCaerSalis

allochthons wrote: »

When the new companions were announced, I was leary of Zerith-var, and really excited for Tanlorin.

Tanlorin's flirting turned me off instantly. It comes across as distinctly creepy, and waaaaaay too stereotypical. Once they were leveled, I was done with them. I really wish we could turn that dialog off.

(And I really like Zerith, ironically. But Sharp is still +1)

Yeah, I was already leery of Tanlorin before I got them, because of what I had heard (and sadly, nothing I have seen since has changed my mind), but was also a bit leery of Zerith since I am not that much into necromancers, and it seemed like he might have some dislikes I might not like.

AFter getting them, My impressions of Tanlorin were only confirmed, making it so I am only going to pull them out to level them and that is it.

Zerith? He might have eclipsed Bastien as my favorite companion. His reactions and dialogue, to me, come across as amazed and impressed, though I saw a compilation where I could see where it be seen as flirty.

Reginald_leBlem

I like Tan. We have a shared love of Indriks and flowers. I didn't love their questline, and out of all the companions the one I vibe with the most is Ember, so that's who gets to play when I'm not actively leveling.

I don't really recall Tanlorin being overly flirty during their quest or while adventuring, it certainly wasn't enough to be a turn off.

Malyore

While we're discussing if it's worth dealing with Tan or not, just how much of an increase is their companion perk on lockpicking in the first place? It sounds good, but I can't find exact info.
What is the percentage increase in forcing a lock? How much extra time do they give? How reduced is the likelihood to break a pick?

Elsonso

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Did you actually do the High Isle questline? Creepy old lecherous lady who was saying she wasn’t Inspector Vale kept making moves on my character, it was pretty obvious what she wanted.

Wait. What? I've done that quest line something like three times, and this is the first I have heard anyone say that. Yeah, she's a creepy lady, but I never got the impression that she wanted that from my character.

As for the two new extra premium companions, I haven't tried them, but thanks for the warnings on both of them.

blktauna

Meaning it not, meaning it doesn't matter. What matters is that there should be a choice to get them to knock it off if you don't want it.

spartaxoxo

Elsonso wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Did you actually do the High Isle questline? Creepy old lecherous lady who was saying she wasn’t Inspector Vale kept making moves on my character, it was pretty obvious what she wanted.

Wait. What? I've done that quest line something like three times, and this is the first I have heard anyone say that. Yeah, she's a creepy lady, but I never got the impression that she wanted that from my character.

As for the two new extra premium companions, I haven't tried them, but thanks for the warnings on both of them.

I find Tanlorin a bit immersion breaking and thus mildly annoying, but Zerith-Var is probably one of the best companions they have released in a long time. And he has one of the best stories they have put out in recent years as well. I can't sing his praises enough.

spartaxoxo

Credible_Joe wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I will say that I do agree that Tanlorin feels too modern. It's to the point it breaks immersion for me a bit. It's not their pronouns or their flirting. Those things remind of Jakarn or Frii. I think Tanlorin is actually less aggressive in their flirting than Jakarn or Naryu, personally.

It's their overuse of modern lingo like "taking up space," that does it. They feel like a Marvel character but Marvel movies are set in a current setting. Also I dislike that their perk's UI elements makes it feel like lock picking is no longer my own skill.

This is an interesting point, because defining what's "Modern Language" in Tamriel is extremely nebulous. It's easy to forget due to the scope of the timeline, but the setting ranges entirely from classic high-fantasy to full-on steam punk, edging into arc-tech. And sometimes that range isn't even set chronologically, it can be simply geographic. Rustic, techno-conservative locales like Eastmarch or Wrothgar can be written full-on classical. But places like the Dunmer, Imperial, and Aldmeri capitals can be very modern, especially as the timeline progresses. Both of those examples can 100% coexist in the same time period.

What hasn't been explored (or has been explored very little) is a cosmopolitan analogue to our standards of modern life, in aesthetics of both fashion and architecture. An artist posted their take on what this might look like on the subreddit a while back, and I really liked the potential it had: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1dkabfu/assorted_eso_artworks/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

That's pretty fair. But there are some slang terms that we use that I think is jarring enough that it doesn't quite fit. The thing is, if these are used sparingly, they can be fun easter eggs or references. So, I quite enjoy Tanlorin giggling at the phrase "heavy sack," or Sharp's "skill issue," dialogue. I also can appreciate the narrative reason that Tanlorin speaks more modernly. Tanlorin is a member of a group that wants to progress Tamriel's society for the better. A progressive group of rag tag young rebels that are in over their head having speech that is less traditional than others in Tamriel makes sense. The problem is that ZOS represents this concept by using very current phrasing rather than making new phrases that fit with Tamriel e.g. fetch.

DP99

I don't see Tan as anything more than a ridiculous goofball.

ElvenOverlord

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

ElvenOverlord wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

ElvenOverlord wrote: »

Really? We get in our feelings over dialogue from fictional characters in a game now? Ignore them and move on.

You could have done the very same thing here. There was no need to ostracize people for game dialog bothering them.

It’s a trivial to be bothered over. I have every right to point that out. There are much bigger things to be concerned about than this.

They have the right to be bothered by it.
There are much bigger things going on that you could have chosen to comment on.

I also have every right to call out how pointless it is to be bothered over it. But hey if people want to let fictional pixel characters in a game get them this worked up and lose their joy. Then have it more power to them. But I’m going to always acknowledge the pointless stress they put themselves under. So whatever, by all means have at it. Peace.

Malyore

ElvenOverlord wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

ElvenOverlord wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

ElvenOverlord wrote: »

Really? We get in our feelings over dialogue from fictional characters in a game now? Ignore them and move on.

You could have done the very same thing here. There was no need to ostracize people for game dialog bothering them.

It’s a trivial to be bothered over. I have every right to point that out. There are much bigger things to be concerned about than this.

They have the right to be bothered by it.
There are much bigger things going on that you could have chosen to comment on.

I also have every right to call out how pointless it is to be bothered over it. But hey if people want to let fictional pixel characters in a game get them this worked up and lose their joy. Then have it more power to them. But I’m going to always acknowledge the pointless stress they put themselves under. So whatever, by all means have at it. Peace.

Yes, since you are not contributing to the conversation we will continue to have at it without you. Peace and irony be with you.

Malyore

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Unlock her as a furnishing and put her in a cage!

I almost did this with Azandar, but even having him take up one of my house slots wasn't worth caging him.

From what I can presume about Tan though from some of the comments, they may just start dancing in that cage...

Syldras

I have an even better idea: Throw all obtrusive npcs into the crater of Red Mountain. Let the Sharmat take care of them! They might even re-emerge improved (maybe with a few tentacles more, or missing their face, but I'm sure they'll return less flirty).

Azandar can stay with me, though. He's the only one at my manor who can actually cook.

Vulsahdaal

TBH it wasn’t the flirting that bothered me with Tanlorin, I just ignored it. I can even ignore the attitude and the hideous hair.

But my problem is the voice, it really bothers me. It took me a little bit to figure out why, then one day after listening to something said it clicked. To me, the voice sounds like a female trying to imitate a male voice in a mocking sort of way.

This is my main issue with Tanlorin and the reason I really don’t use her. Though the hair is pretty bad as well and cant put a hat or helm over it.

AScarlato

My Tanlorin will forever be stuck in the ice cube I have been running past since her release. She immediately annoyed me and I already have companions I like. I do laugh as it seems,s no one else wants to help free her either as all the npcs just walk past.

AScarlato

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Imagine, your character is an overweight Argonian Vampire Necromancer with the decaying zombie skin and extensive burn scars...

Jarkarn needs his eyes checked because he thinks your good-looking.

But he doesn’t. He’s just a flatterer and it’s supposed to come off as insincere.

SilverBride

AScarlato wrote: »

My Tanlorin will forever be stuck in the ice cube I have been running past since her release. She immediately annoyed me and I already have companions I like. I do laugh as it seems,s no one else wants to help free her either as all the npcs just walk past.

Do we have to have the quest to see Tanlorin and Zerith-var wherever they appear? Or are they not there at all for us if we don't accept the quest?

I've never run into them anywhere so wasn't sure how that worked.

Jestir

SilverBride wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

My Tanlorin will forever be stuck in the ice cube I have been running past since her release. She immediately annoyed me and I already have companions I like. I do laugh as it seems,s no one else wants to help free her either as all the npcs just walk past.

Do we have to have the quest to see Tanlorin and Zerith-var wherever they appear? Or are they not there at all for us if we don't accept the quest?

I've never run into them anywhere so wasn't sure how that worked.

If you "bought them" through the crown store then the related quest is in the world

So the annoying cats arguing at the one wayshrine and Tan frozen in ice are there for all my characters

liliub17_ESO

Syldras wrote: »

Personally, I do think it's more annoying to come across this situation in quests, especially if unavoidable parts of the main zone quest, than it is with companions. As, yes, companions can just be skipped.

But the main part that bothers me isn't even that these characters exist. No, they should even exist (if well-written). All kinds of characters have to exist to make a fictional world seem believable.

The thing that bothers me is that while this is a roleplaying game, my character cannot truly engage with the situation. I don't want annoying characters to be changed or removed, I want to be able to let my character react to them in a way I choose. I see they can't give us 10 different options, but especially if it comes to a rather personal topic, there should at least be the choice between a positive, a negative and maybe a neutral reaction.

The problem is that this is NOT a roleplaying game (in my opinion). We can roleplay behind the keyboard or in the chat box, but our dialogue choices don't make all that much difference. Not in the style of traditional DnD, for example. We gain or lose favor according to seemingly arbitrary things in-game: example, apparently Bastien is lactose-intolerant or just really hates cheese because if you craft a dish with cheese, you lose a point of favor. Ember hates fish, and as soon as you cast, you lose points, but if you fish with Sharp, he's all about it. Those aren't really roleplay.

In ESO, dialogue choices are black and white: you either accept a quest or you don't, you talk to a companion or you don't. If you do, it advances their questline eventually. If you don't, they follow you until you 'dismiss' them.

Syldras

AScarlato wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Imagine, your character is an overweight Argonian Vampire Necromancer with the decaying zombie skin and extensive burn scars...

Jarkarn needs his eyes checked because he thinks your good-looking.

But he doesn’t. He’s just a flatterer and it’s supposed to come off as insincere.

In the base game, he was clearly designed as a rogue character and thief who uses his charms to flatter people, without having much real interest in them (except for their money and valuables), yes. I actually found him quite amusing back then. But in High Isle he somehow changed to "sleazy idiot flirting with everyone and for the sake of it". There's hardly something smart or shifty left about his behavior. Also, he's not really charming anyone anymore, his flirting is so obtrusive that even npcs are annoyed - they basically turned him from a charming, clever criminal to a boasting joke. And that's only one thing I dislike about High Isle. I was really disappointed about that chapter. Especially the writing seemed horribly clichéd.

Syldras

liliub17_ESO wrote: »

The problem is that this is NOT a roleplaying game (in my opinion). We can roleplay behind the keyboard or in the chat box, but our dialogue choices don't make all that much difference. Not in the style of traditional DnD, for example. We gain or lose favor according to seemingly arbitrary things in-game: example, apparently Bastien is lactose-intolerant or just really hates cheese because if you craft a dish with cheese, you lose a point of favor. Ember hates fish, and as soon as you cast, you lose points, but if you fish with Sharp, he's all about it. Those aren't really roleplay.
In ESO, dialogue choices are black and white: you either accept a quest or you don't, you talk to a companion or you don't. If you do, it advances their questline eventually. If you don't, they follow you until you 'dismiss' them.

I know. I've participated in lots of discussions about that on this forum, and one thing that comes up regularly is how we can basically only play the friendly and brave hero helping everyone. I wish we had actual choices, but by now I have accepted that ESO is simplified compared to the single player TES games. And that's not meant as an insult or accusation, but it's just comparably less complex in terms of story telling, dialogues, choices we can make, etc; and at least some of that might be to it being an MMO, so we have factors like the world having to stay roughly the same all the time because it has to be the same for every player, which means at least the outcome of the big stories has to be the same, and most of all, everything must have gone back to normal more or less before the next chapter. There's no continuous storytelling, it's always limited to "bad thing suddenly appears in region xy, hero appears, bad situation is solved", and then rinse and repeat.

And while I have somehow accepted that - although I still hope that a few improvements could be made in some aspects - it's somehow even worse, in my personal opinion, if it's about something rather personal concerning my character. I can live with him more or less playing the "good hero" trope, because this is the story about a good hero more or less, it's predefined as such (even if the good hero can steal and murder and become a necromancer). But if the game implies who my character is attracted to (or gives me no choice to react on really obtrusive "flirty" behaviour), that's a bit different, a bit too intrusive in my roleplaying, as it's deciding something very personal for my character (if this was a tabletop rpg, this would be akin to god-modding). Also, giving us a dialogue option to remove those extra lines would not change the bigger picture, it would not change any stories, and wouldn't change the world for other players, so it would or should be easy to implement.

AScarlato

Syldras wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Imagine, your character is an overweight Argonian Vampire Necromancer with the decaying zombie skin and extensive burn scars...

Jarkarn needs his eyes checked because he thinks your good-looking.

But he doesn’t. He’s just a flatterer and it’s supposed to come off as insincere.

In the base game, he was clearly designed as a rogue character and thief who uses his charms to flatter people, without having much real interest in them (except for their money and valuables), yes. I actually found him quite amusing back then. But in High Isle he somehow changed to "sleazy idiot flirting with everyone and for the sake of it". There's hardly something smart or shifty left about his behavior. Also, he's not really charming anyone anymore, his flirting is so obtrusive that even npcs are annoyed - they basically turned him from a charming, clever criminal to a boasting joke. And that's only one thing I dislike about High Isle. I was really disappointed about that chapter. Especially the writing seemed horribly clichéd.

I disagree and he hasn’t changed at all. Him still calling you good looking is no more sincere than at any other point. In fact he talks to you about actually being into the mage elf in that quest line. He has no interest in the PC at all. If anything it’s just a vapid nickname for us at this point.

That she doesn’t reciprocate doesn’t mean there weren’t other NPCs that still worked on.

We have people in this thread who thought Lady Arebelle is obsessed with the PC and I fail to see that either having listened to all of her dialogue 3 times, the last just last month.

Syldras

AScarlato wrote: »

I disagree and he hasn’t changed at all. Him still calling you good looking is no more sincere than at any other point. In fact he talks to you about actually being into the mage elf in that quest line. He has no interest in the PC at all.

Because people, especially Jakarn, can only be into one person at a time? Or how is him being into the Altmer mage an argument for him not being interested in the player character?

Also, we're close enough friends for him to tell us about someone he's truly interested in, but still addresses us with empty flattery?

AScarlato wrote: »

We have people in this thread who thought Lady Arebelle is obsessed with the PC and I fail to see that either having listened to all of her dialogue 3 times, the last just last month.

I'm not sure if it depends on translation or cultural differences (now for real). Immediately upon meeting her, in her first part of dialogue, she calls the player character "darling" and "lovely". In English that might come across "friendly old granny" depending on context, in some translations and cultures it does not. If I'd go outside right now and some random woman (or man, and no matter if old or young) I've not talked a word to before would tell me what a lovely darling I am, I would find it extremely creepy (it might be a difference if I just helped her carry her heavy shopping bag home and she would have a reason to be happy and grateful about the help, but just upon meeting each other and with no context - no, thank you!). Also, Arabelle overshares. All that "Oh, Inspector Vale was in so many bawdy situations, she's just like me, nudge nudge" drivel. Why would you tell a stranger that without certain intentions? Do people usually walk up to strangers and give them uninvited talks about their love life? In my country this might even count as verbal harrassment.

sans-culottes

Syldras wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

I disagree and he hasn’t changed at all. Him still calling you good looking is no more sincere than at any other point. In fact he talks to you about actually being into the mage elf in that quest line. He has no interest in the PC at all.

Because people, especially Jakarn, can only be into one person at a time? Or how is him being into the Altmer mage an argument for him not being interested in the player character?

Also, we're close enough friends for him to tell us about someone he's truly interested in, but still addresses us with empty flattery?

AScarlato wrote: »

We have people in this thread who thought Lady Arebelle is obsessed with the PC and I fail to see that either having listened to all of her dialogue 3 times, the last just last month.

I'm not sure if it depends on translation or cultural differences (now for real). Immediately upon meeting her, in her first part of dialogue, she calls the player character "darling" and "lovely". In English that might come across "friendly old granny" depending on context, in some translations and cultures it does not. If I'd go outside right now and some random woman (or man, and no matter if old or young) I've not talked a word to before would tell me what a lovely darling I am, I would find it extremely creepy (it might be a difference if I just helped her carry her heavy shopping bag home and she would have a reason to be happy and grateful about the help, but just upon meeting each other and with no context - no, thank you!). Also, Arabelle overshares. All that "Oh, Inspector Vale was in so many bawdy situations, she's just like me, nudge nudge" drivel. Why would you tell a stranger that without certain intentions? Do people usually walk up to strangers and give them uninvited talks about their love life? In my country this might even count as verbal harrassment.

Fair. This would probably qualify as “oversharing” in most cultures tbh.

AScarlato

Syldras wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

I disagree and he hasn’t changed at all. Him still calling you good looking is no more sincere than at any other point. In fact he talks to you about actually being into the mage elf in that quest line. He has no interest in the PC at all.

Because people, especially Jakarn, can only be into one person at a time? Or how is him being into the Altmer mage an argument for him not being interested in the player character?

Also, we're close enough friends for him to tell us about someone he's truly interested in, but still addresses us with empty flattery?

Because unlike the other NPCs he hit on, where he made them feel "special" and they are written to be unaware of one another - he confides in us as a friend who he is actually interested in.

And yes, friends can have nicknames for one another that can be flirty. I have several friends like this where this is no romantic intentions whatsoever. I have friends IRL that say things like "hey sexy" but its purely platonic.

At the end of the day you can imply intent to Jakarn that likely simply doesn't exist, or have a long discourse on Arabelle, but I'm not really all that interested. The theme I got from this thread is that some people are put off by the levels of innuendo some NPCs have, which is fine - but others find it rather tame and don't have the mindset that a playful NPC is heavily hitting on them at every moment.

huskandhunger

Jakarn is the biggest flirt, he always be like hey there good looking, and I'm like ...you're not even a werewolf, go away.

Companion wise, Bastian I have always wished I could eat him and in doing so have him deleted from my roster. His face and Isobels are hideous and rough on the eyes.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Syldras wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

I disagree and he hasn’t changed at all. Him still calling you good looking is no more sincere than at any other point. In fact he talks to you about actually being into the mage elf in that quest line. He has no interest in the PC at all.

Because people, especially Jakarn, can only be into one person at a time? Or how is him being into the Altmer mage an argument for him not being interested in the player character?

Also, we're close enough friends for him to tell us about someone he's truly interested in, but still addresses us with empty flattery?

AScarlato wrote: »

We have people in this thread who thought Lady Arebelle is obsessed with the PC and I fail to see that either having listened to all of her dialogue 3 times, the last just last month.

I'm not sure if it depends on translation or cultural differences (now for real). Immediately upon meeting her, in her first part of dialogue, she calls the player character "darling" and "lovely". In English that might come across "friendly old granny" depending on context, in some translations and cultures it does not. If I'd go outside right now and some random woman (or man, and no matter if old or young) I've not talked a word to before would tell me what a lovely darling I am, I would find it extremely creepy (it might be a difference if I just helped her carry her heavy shopping bag home and she would have a reason to be happy and grateful about the help, but just upon meeting each other and with no context - no, thank you!). Also, Arabelle overshares. All that "Oh, Inspector Vale was in so many bawdy situations, she's just like me, nudge nudge" drivel. Why would you tell a stranger that without certain intentions? Do people usually walk up to strangers and give them uninvited talks about their love life? In my country this might even count as verbal harrassment.

She’s a little more overt with some of her dialogue. “If you want to discuss rumors and innuendos, we can talk later. Perhaps over a meal and an expensive bottle of wine?” And after asking her about the job she has for you: “Oh, nothing tawdry, my dear. We'll be too busy for romantic shenanigans before long, I expect.”

It’s not limited to the PC either, she has a comment in the Prologue quest: “Thank you for rescuing Valessea. I prefer that no harm comes to my associates—especially the lovely ones." And part of the ‘payment’ she’s giving the captain who takes you to Amenos is a romantic dinner. There might be more, I didn’t comb through the whole thing.

Syldras

AScarlato wrote: »

At the end of the day you can imply intent to Jakarn that likely simply doesn't exist, or have a long discourse on Arabelle, but I'm not really all that interested.

But interested enough in dismissing other people's criticism and accusing them of being oversensitive, it seems.

AScarlato wrote: »

The theme I got from this thread is that some people are put off by the levels of innuendo some NPCs have, which is fine - but others find it rather tame and don't have the mindset that a playful NPC is heavily hitting on them at every moment.

If you're walking through town and suddenly some guy would approach you and tell you out of the blue "Hey darling, you're lovely! You know James Bond? He takes a lot of people to bed. I'm just like him! *nudge nudge* How about we have some wine together?" you'd assume that person is not hitting on you? Because that's exactly the behaviour Arabelle shows (including an invitation to "discuss bawdy things" while having wine), several times, just with using Inspector Vale as a ESO-appropriate comparison. I have a hard time understanding how someone can not recognize that as attempts in flirting - and quite unsophisticated ones at that.

Maybe that's even more annoying; she's supposed to be a famous writer, but the only thing that comes to her mind when trying to be flirty is "Hey darling! You lovely! I love romance! Let's have wine and explore that further!" like she's some sleazy lice-ridden tavern dweller. That's the true tragedy of High Isle (apart from the fact that the player character cannot react in any way towards advances): It has an overall "flirty" tone in many quests, but it's all absolutely over-the-top obvious and in a way horribly clumsy. It's usually some random npc making some obvious remark (Let's have wine, go to bed, bla bla, etc) immediately upon meeting them, it never comes across as actually inviting or even tempting, but as random and sleazy. This is the issue I have with it: Not the (comparably tame) bawdiness, but that it feels very cliché, exaggerated and context-less, and that my character just has to accept it, which is absolutely out of character and therefore immersion-breaking.