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Bank Account Being Charged?
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Felarrond✭✭✭Holycannoli wrote: »Christophetes wrote: »Holycannoli wrote: »How long does it take this pending transaction to clear off? Mine's been over an hour now.
Anywhere from one to 30 business days, depending on your card provider and the merchant.
Ok that's fine. I never have pending transactions like this and someone said theirs was cleared within 20 minutes.
I have more than enough to cover it so that's not my concern.
Depends on your bank but most take 24-72 hours for a transaction to "fall off." Mines been on there a couple hours now.1 -
ArcheKnight✭✭✭Sorry, you don't get a "get out of jail free card" just because it wasn't directly your fault. They should get all of the information and make it clear to everybody. They knew what their merchant would do, they had to pick them in the first place and people don't just make blind decisions in these matters. And this isn't a new group either. People are acting like these guys should be given infinite chances because they are babies or something. They aren't, they are just bad at critical thinking.
And this is a HUGE problem. Some of you are passing it off as nothing, but this could very well put people in the negative in a time where they can't afford to be. Sure, they could probably get it reversed and not have to pay a overdraft fee, but that could take up to a month! As people have said, if this was $1 or $.01, everything would be fine, but people are being charged the entirety of their next month fee AND some of them are seeing their free time go down... before the game is even released! These are important matters that when overlooked by overzealous teams can destroy a game, no matter how good it is.Edited by ArcheKnight on April 4, 2014 3:03AM8 -
Valwardon✭✭bjeardoeb14_ESO wrote: »You realize their newbie legal, PR and Marketing team do nothing in the realm of this? Why are they newbs exactly-that entire team is reactive to business decisions - they aren't the ones making the decision.
I agree, bad decision, Zen will get hurt from it - more by the nature that people will go 1 month vs longer.
But some of the ranting here is a bit of throwing the baby out with the bath water.
If you get charged an overdraft or insufficient funds fee for this, or get charged a late fee because you no longer have the money to pay your utilities et cetera, would you then consider this throwing the baby out with the bath water?
Look, I came from a single-parent household. I've put myself through college. I've lived paycheck to paycheck, and been in situations where I was HAVING to spend money I didn't yet have.
So I certainly sympathize with those of lesser fortunes.
BUT- I can assure you, in those days - I was not concerned of bouncing checks etc because of an online game subscription. I worked longer hours in college to actually pay for EQ. If I didn't have the money - I didn't play the game.
People are upset about this because they want to play the game. I get it. The passion is a good thing for the ESO franchise.
Zen's decision here was a bad one in managing their expectations with their merchant handler.
BUT - Zenimax also may have been blindsided by that decision. I would imagine had they known about this, they would have coded it upfront to be more forthcoming to those signing up already.
Imagine the level of support calls, complaints and general bad PR this decision is worth. I don't think Zenimax would have knowingly gone into this situation, and handled it this poorly.
Companies are put in a bad situation all the time because of other companies.
1) Zen's merchant provider is not going to waive or change this part of the process.
1a) This process will hurt Zen financially
2) One does not simply get a new merchant provider and have it online in a day, let alone hours.
I feel pretty certain this process will change. Zen's easiest fix is to waive the account setup for the first 30 days of the game. This buys them time to fix the problem. And I agree this is a problem - just not the magnitude its been made out to be.
AWESOME so they are just irresponsible?? It is THERE job to fully understand what there merchant account does. I am 100 percent sure that everything was presented to them in a stack of paperwork for them to look over. It is damn near a requirement that and a blood test and urine sample. Kidding on that but still. All the terms and conditions and how they handle payment processing is all up front when they seek out a merchant account.
So your excuse for them is NOT valid or that it is okay for a "world class" gaming company to be irresponsible.Edited by Valwardon on April 4, 2014 3:04AM6 -
zbcole✭✭✭
Do you work in business, or manage a business. I am a leader in a Fortune 100 company that deals with many companies, and I can tell you - this stuff happens ALL THE TIME.ArcheKnight wrote: »Sorry, you don't get a "get out of jail free card" just because it wasn't directly your fault. They should get all of the information and make it clear to everybody. They knew what their merchant would do, they had to pick them in the first place and people don't just make blind decisions in these matters. And this isn't a new group either. People are acting like these guys should be given infinite chances because they are babies or something. They aren't, they are just bad at critical thinking.
Generally, when companies talk to merchant services, they generally care about their point-of-access features, time service and percentage fees. They RARELY get into the technical aspects of how the process is actually transacted.
Only people that will even begin to discuss transactional reservation are those that have been burned by it in the past. Many companies do this and you NEVER notice it, because you buy in the same step.
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Hycotuss✭My buddy is having the same issue and he can't create a Forum profile either.
He bought 2 copies of the game 1 for me and 1 for himself, without knowing that they were going to charge the full $14.99 just to activate the game and neither of us have the $14.99.
We have been playing MMOs together for years and have never had this issue where the devs want a full month's membership nor does it state anywhere on the site that they were going to charge this amount when he pre-ordered the game.
From past experiences we thought that it would be only $1 like previous games have done, not something this drastic.
He is on the phone with support right now to see if they can do anything.2 -
ShiBu✭✭✭All sub based games require you to enter a subscription plan prior to receiving your free 30 days. You will only be charged when your 30 free days is about to expire
that´s a lie.
wow, swtor, aoin, tera, secret world.. just to name a few.. dont need certifications at all.
( before some of the games went free2play )
Buy the game with 30 days free of playing.. play the game.. then buy more or leave it.
There are many many ppl who are realy frustrated about this.. and i do understand them. Bc of this 2 rl friends quit playing the game and they will get their refund ^^ since zenimax didnt tell them about this.. and the laws here very strictly with such stuff ( even you get a refund ).
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Spartycuss✭✭✭I feel ripped off, cheated, and lied too. To make you HAVE to use a creditcard when you suppose to have 30 days free is a big rip off. Zenimax you better fix this.4
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Felarrond✭✭✭One of the biggest issues is that this needs to become a mega thread to get ZoS to comment on it as sad as that is, they need to realize that not fixing this promptly and making their customers realize that they care about their customers as well as their bottom line. As it stands now, bonehead moves or oversights like this could possibly make a game like this fail paired with the in-game issues.6
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Taaltos✭✭
World of Warcraft doesn't ask for a cent after you buy Battle Chest before you use all your 30 days free game time. YOUR POINT IS SO INVALID.
Actually, they do. You need to put in your CC info. As did The Secret World. Rift. Countless other MMO's.0 -
Valwardon✭✭
You must be a minimum wage team leader. As surely you do not know business. This stuff does not happen all the time. A good business actually takes time to read who and what they are doing business with and what they are getting. Anything else is just irresponsible.Do you work in business, or manage a business. I am a leader in a Fortune 100 company that deals with many companies, and I can tell you - this stuff happens ALL THE TIME.
I can show you documents I have been sent from Merchant Accounts and most of them you would consider a novel by most standards.
Troll fanboi trying to be something he is not.9 -
Taaltos✭✭Still not sure why everyone thinks they're paying a full sub. You aren't, it's a 'funds' check. AM/PM(the gas station) checks for 100.00 in your account, if you don't have it, you can't pump gas.
Paypal does it. Checks for under a dollar.
Are you guys new to MMO's or something?1 -
Felarrond✭✭✭
World of Warcraft doesn't ask for a cent after you buy Battle Chest before you use all your 30 days free game time. YOUR POINT IS SO INVALID.
Actually, they do. You need to put in your CC info. As did The Secret World. Rift. Countless other MMO's.
WoW has been where you didn't need a Credit Card to play the trial before as well, and recently. Not sure their current status, but they have had it both ways.0 -
So I pre-ordered 2x 60 day time cards from my usual game shop and they said it won't be in till 1-2 weeks later. I live in Asia hence they supposedly import in to keep costs low.
I was fine with it as the original purchase of the game included 30 days of game time.
I refuse to subscribe and pay for 30 days because I have already bought 2x 60 day time codes + initial 30 days of the game.
Just because it arrives late, I need to pay Zenimax 30 days extra ahead when they already owe me 30 days of game time that I've paid for ?
Please fix this zenimax.2 -
Felarrond✭✭✭Still not sure why everyone thinks they're paying a full sub. You aren't, it's a 'funds' check. AM/PM(the gas station) checks for 100.00 in your account, if you don't have it, you can't pump gas.
Paypal does it. Checks for under a dollar.
Are you guys new to MMO's or something?
Because they implicitly indicate your card will not be charged, they don't make any mention of a hold, or a pre-auth, and most companies that do charge pre-auths or card checks only charge $1. They're pre-authing the entire sub fee here, and with it being a Thursday, most people will not see this charge fall off their account until at least tuesday. That's up to $80 to be without for 5 days at least. That's why this is a big deal.
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Hycotuss✭My friend just got off the phone with support and they were absolutely rude and of no help at all. All Loraine (the representative) said to him was that "her hands are tied."
He could have proved the purchase with the key codes but she wouldn't even listen to him and kept saying, "my hands are tied" over and over.
This is really bad customer service and them not having sympathy for a customer in need and someone that bought a product that was labeled as coming with 30 days free without an explanation that states $14.99 will be charged to activate the game is false advertising.8 -
Valwardon✭✭bjeardoeb14_ESO wrote: »Still not sure why everyone thinks they're paying a full sub. You aren't, it's a 'funds' check. AM/PM(the gas station) checks for 100.00 in your account, if you don't have it, you can't pump gas.
Paypal does it. Checks for under a dollar.
Are you guys new to MMO's or something?
Because they implicitly indicate your card will not be charged, they don't make any mention of a hold, or a pre-auth, and most companies that do charge pre-auths or card checks only charge $1. They're pre-authing the entire sub fee here, and with it being a Thursday, most people will not see this charge fall off their account until at least tuesday. That's up to $80 to be without for 5 days at least. That's why this is a big deal.
80 is not a big deal it is really the principle. This is why people are mad. It can be 5.00 or 10.00 does not matter it is all the same thing. I do not care how much is sitting in my bank. If you take it without telling me and without me saying okay you can take xyz amount at such time then you are violating my trust and in some areas of the world you are violating the law.Edited by Valwardon on April 4, 2014 3:23AM7 -
Felarrond✭✭✭Still not sure why everyone thinks they're paying a full sub. You aren't, it's a 'funds' check. AM/PM(the gas station) checks for 100.00 in your account, if you don't have it, you can't pump gas.
Paypal does it. Checks for under a dollar.
Are you guys new to MMO's or something?
Awesome sauce. You must be new or something? You know the paypal optiobjeardoeb14_ESO wrote: »Still not sure why everyone thinks they're paying a full sub. You aren't, it's a 'funds' check. AM/PM(the gas station) checks for 100.00 in your account, if you don't have it, you can't pump gas.
Paypal does it. Checks for under a dollar.
Are you guys new to MMO's or something?
Because they implicitly indicate your card will not be charged, they don't make any mention of a hold, or a pre-auth, and most companies that do charge pre-auths or card checks only charge $1. They're pre-authing the entire sub fee here, and with it being a Thursday, most people will not see this charge fall off their account until at least tuesday. That's up to $80 to be without for 5 days at least. That's why this is a big deal.
80 is not a big deal it is really the principle. This is why people are mad. It can be 5.00 or 10.00 does not matter it is all the same thing. I do not care how much is sitting in my bank. If you take it without telling me and without me saying okay you can take xyz amount at such time then you are violating my trust.
To a lot of people being without $80 for 5 days is a huge deal, some people live paycheck to paycheck and carefully budget.5 -
ShiBu✭✭✭Still not sure why everyone thinks they're paying a full sub. You aren't, it's a 'funds' check. AM/PM(the gas station) checks for 100.00 in your account, if you don't have it, you can't pump gas.
Paypal does it. Checks for under a dollar.
Are you guys new to MMO's or something?
here are like 100+ ppl raging about this ( and endless more who didnt even discovered the problem at all ) .. and you are counting games where YOU DIDN´T have to certificate your account for the 30 days. what if some1 is new to mmo´s and they are shocked ? What will ya say ?
"oh sry boi then i will play with the other 10 mio ESO players who dont have a problem at all ! byebye"
good stuff dude.. great community.. instead to try to understand why those ppl having a problem you´r coming up with invalid arguements.
You know i have a problem too.. i don´t know which card i should use.. and still i care for the ppl who don´t have a credit card or another ability to "purchase" those extra 30 days.
Edited by ShiBu on April 4, 2014 3:24AM8 -
ArcheKnight✭✭✭Which fortune 100 do you work for and can I get your name? Your boss should know that they hired an imbecile. Don't do business unless you know the details. I don't have to have a bachelors degree in business to know that. If they really didn't know what they were getting themselves, and more importantly their customers, into, then they should be cut down to make room for more responsible companies.
[edit] I'd also like to ask what typically happens (or what HAS happened for some) when doing this through paypal? Usually it isn't an issue but as I'm short on funds, at least in the bank, I'd rather not do this unless it will not be CHARGED to my account. I've heard, specifically, that Visa Debit will be charged so I will not be using that. Any other time it has either been an inconsequential amount of money or been taken off before I even noticed it, but I need to know that it won't be CHARGED at all, or I will have to deal with overdraft fees; and then Zenimax will wish they had opened a bakery instead of having to deal with me.
And anyone confirm the extra 2 days yet? I've heard some say that they immediately lose 1 of the "free" days instead of it waiting until after Sunday.Edited by ArcheKnight on April 4, 2014 3:28AM9 -
Felarrond✭✭✭ArcheKnight wrote: »Which fortune 100 do you work for and can I get your name? Your boss should know that they hired an imbecile. Don't do business unless you know the details. I don't have to have a bachelors degree in business to know that. If they really didn't know what they were getting themselves, and more importantly their customers, into, then they should be cut down to make room for more responsible companies.
[edit] I'd also like to ask what typically happens (or what HAS happened for some) when doing this through paypal? Usually it isn't an issue but as I'm short on funds, at least in the bank, I'd rather not do this unless it will not be CHARGED to my account. I've heard, specifically, that Visa Debit will be charged so I will not be using that. Any other time it has either been an inconsequential amount of money or been taken off before I even noticed it, but I need to know that it won't be CHARGED at all, or I will have to deal with overdraft fees; and then Zenimax will wish they had opened a bakery instead of having to deal with me.
And anyone confirm the extra 2 days yet? I've heard some say that they immediately lose 1 of the "free" days instead of it waiting until after Sunday.
Someone stated earlier that paypal charges the full amount as a hold. So you could still hurt your bank account using it.0 -
zbcole✭✭✭
You must be a minimum wage team leader. As surely you do not know business. This stuff does not happen all the time. A good business actually takes time to read who and what they are doing business with and what they are getting. Anything else is just irresponsible.Do you work in business, or manage a business. I am a leader in a Fortune 100 company that deals with many companies, and I can tell you - this stuff happens ALL THE TIME.
I can show you documents I have been sent from Merchant Accounts and most of them you would consider a novel by most standards.
Troll fanboi trying to be something he is not.
And to what is highlighted bold, is a definition of why you don't know what you are talking about nor have been involved in managing or owning a business.
A good business cannot take the time to do read everything and look over everything possible that touches their empire. If they do, they would develop paralysis by analysis, an MBA cliché for you.
What's important is that they manage to their economies of scale. Do the most of what gives them the best return on their product. Managing the merchant process to the nth degree as such isn't where a company is going to focus outside of:
1) Time Service of Funds
2) Merchant Fees
3) Point-of-Access
You really think in your infinite wisdom that a company is going to ask:
"Do you reserve transactional fees when a player sets up their payment options in the 30 day free period?"
95% of the times they will draw going forward, that scenario does not even apply. But yes-that is where they should have been focused and pouring over the minutia. If they were, this game would have seen a 2015 launch date if they didn't go bankrupt in the process.2 -
Arsenic_Touch✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is a terrible move on Zenimax's part. Rift didn't do this, and neither did WoW. So basically unless you add a credit card you won't get to play after the 4th and it doesn't say this anywhere when you digitally purchase the game. So talk about a slap to the face.☠ Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured? ☠
╔═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╗
"Hope can drown lost in thunderous sound."
"Fear can claim what little faith remains."
"Death will take those who fight alone."
"But united we can break a fate once set in stone."
╚═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╝
NA // Ebonheart Pact // Leader of CORE Legion // Namira Beta Tester // VR11 NB4 -
Felarrond✭✭✭
You must be a minimum wage team leader. As surely you do not know business. This stuff does not happen all the time. A good business actually takes time to read who and what they are doing business with and what they are getting. Anything else is just irresponsible.Do you work in business, or manage a business. I am a leader in a Fortune 100 company that deals with many companies, and I can tell you - this stuff happens ALL THE TIME.
I can show you documents I have been sent from Merchant Accounts and most of them you would consider a novel by most standards.
Troll fanboi trying to be something he is not.
And to what is highlighted bold, is a definition of why you don't know what you are talking about nor have been involved in managing or owning a business.
A good business cannot take the time to do read everything and look over everything possible that touches their empire. If they do, they would develop paralysis by analysis, an MBA cliché for you.
What's important is that they manage to their economies of scale. Do the most of what gives them the best return on their product. Managing the merchant process to the nth degree as such isn't where a company is going to focus outside of:
1) Time Service of Funds
2) Merchant Fees
3) Point-of-Access
You really think in your infinite wisdom that a company is going to ask:
"Do you reserve transactional fees when a player sets up their payment options in the 30 day free period?"
95% of the times they will draw going forward, that scenario does not even apply. But yes-that is where they should have been focused and pouring over the minutia. If they were, this game would have seen a 2015 launch date if they didn't go bankrupt in the process.
With the current state of affairs, this game probably SHOULD have been slated for a 2015 Release.4 -
Felarrond✭✭✭Arsenic_Touch wrote: »This is a terrible move on Zenimax's part. Rift didn't do this, and neither did WoW. So basically unless you add a credit card you won't get to play after the 4th and it doesn't say this anywhere when you digitally purchase the game. So talk about a slap to the face.
It's actually the 6th, if you had early access.0 -
ArcheKnight✭✭✭This is not ok. Fix it already....
Sadly this is something that they should have known and told us LONG ago, as fixing it is a bit harder and will take time, especially on the edge of a weekend.
@bjeardoeb14_ESO And as disappointing as that is to hear, I'm grateful for the response.
I will probably just wait until I can put money into my bank tomorrow. I really feel for those that can't solve it like that though. I understand verification charges, but they should be just as clear about them as they are with actual charges, if not more so. These are hidden fees that a lot of people don't know about and even though they might disappear after a short time, they can really freak some people out and it could actually lead to some serious consequences for those living on tight, managed, budgets. A trustworthy company should always be very forthcoming about any and all things that they do that can affect your bank account, even temporarily.
And no, dealing with merchants is NOT an adequate excuse. If you are unaware of the practices that they commit, then you have failed you customers.Edited by ArcheKnight on April 4, 2014 3:37AM4 -
zbcole✭✭✭
Do away with your debit card then. This happens every time you swipe your card for almost everything. The trouble and difference is, again - you almost always buy at that same period. So to you, its an isolated event here that is wrecking your utopian world.bjeardoeb14_ESO wrote: »Still not sure why everyone thinks they're paying a full sub. You aren't, it's a 'funds' check. AM/PM(the gas station) checks for 100.00 in your account, if you don't have it, you can't pump gas.
Paypal does it. Checks for under a dollar.
Are you guys new to MMO's or something?
Because they implicitly indicate your card will not be charged, they don't make any mention of a hold, or a pre-auth, and most companies that do charge pre-auths or card checks only charge $1. They're pre-authing the entire sub fee here, and with it being a Thursday, most people will not see this charge fall off their account until at least tuesday. That's up to $80 to be without for 5 days at least. That's why this is a big deal.
80 is not a big deal it is really the principle. This is why people are mad. It can be 5.00 or 10.00 does not matter it is all the same thing. I do not care how much is sitting in my bank. If you take it without telling me and without me saying okay you can take xyz amount at such time then you are violating my trust and in some areas of the world you are violating the law.
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Quidel✭neither does LOTRO... or any other that i've gamed. Normally on activating you choose which option, cc or game card, however you don't need to register a game card until the first 30 days is up. Can anyone confirm that you get your game time plus the thirty days included in the initial purchase?
I used to play LOTRO and until it became F2P, you had to give the a valid sub 1st.0 -
Felarrond✭✭✭ArcheKnight wrote: »This is not ok. Fix it already....
Sadly this is something that they should have known and told us LONG ago, as fixing it is a bit harder and will take time, especially on the edge of a weekend.
@bjeardoeb14_ESO And as disappointing as that is to hear, I'm grateful for the response.
I will probably just wait until I can put money into my bank tomorrow. I really feel for those that can't solve it like that though. I understand verification charges, but they should be just as clear about them as they are with actual charges, if not more so. These are hidden fees that a lot of people don't know about and even though they might disappear after a short time, they can really freak some people out and it could actually lead to some serious consequences for those living on tight, managed, budgets. A trustworthy company should always be very forthcoming about any and all things that they do that can affect your bank account, even temporarily.
And no, dealing with merchants is NOT an adequate excuse. If you are unaware of the practices that they commit, then you have failed you customers.
What makes me sick, is the amount of people that will set up subscriptions and not even realize that the hold is on their account until they check their bank account.
Even if you're old-hat MMO player, you'll have assumed that you were charged a dollar. Or the people that signup, then realize they don't have the money to pay an important bill or something.
This situation doesn't even really effect me, but it's left me very upset.2 -
Felarrond✭✭✭neither does LOTRO... or any other that i've gamed. Normally on activating you choose which option, cc or game card, however you don't need to register a game card until the first 30 days is up. Can anyone confirm that you get your game time plus the thirty days included in the initial purchase?
I used to play LOTRO and until it became F2P, you had to give the a valid sub 1st.
Yes, but LOTRO charged the standard $1 pre-auth.0