Is it fair gameplay to use use Rush of Agony to pull players long distances and through objects?

CrazyKitty · February 24

sans-culottes wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone. We’ve had some conversations yesterday about this discussion, the Rush of Agony set, and the more recent community concerns and reports. This also included consideration for the overall feedback since we released the set.

To give a little background, all movement-type actions and skills, including pulls, have the potential to be impacted by variables including character movement speed and position, high ping, the amount of data being sent between the server and the client, and anything that negatively impacts server and client latency (including attacks by bad actors). What this can result in with any pull-type action or skill, not just the Rush of Agony set pull, is cases where the client thinks the target is in one spot and the server thinks it’s in another. One of the reasons this has been surfacing more with Rush of Agony is due to how popular the set is – more people using the set creates more opportunities for the pull to be impacted.

We have some work in progress that aims to reduce the overall amount of data being sent back and forth between the client and server, investigations into some known crashes related to player bonuses, and additional logging that will help us better identify crash and disconnect causes.

For the Rush of Agony set, specifically, we are looking at a few options to help reduce the chances of the current issue where some player characters are getting into a bad state after being a target of the pull. One possible solution we are considering is having the pull bring the target player back to a specific location instead of to the source player. This will decrease the amount of movement-related data the client needs to send to the server, though it could still happen. This is still in discussion as a potential option and not locked in. We're also discussing options to reduce the overall frequency at which a player could be pulled by this set.

These changes require some dev and engineering work to be done and tested, so realistically we are looking at Update 46 timing at the earliest. Thank you for all the input and suggestions related to this.

It’s great that this problematic set is being addressed—and so promptly. However, why aren’t other problematic areas—e.g., the many, many issues facing the Necromancer class—being ignored by the devs? Disappointing.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin, the problems reported here received prompt, clear responses.

There has been nothing "prompt" about ZOS' response to RoA. We've been peppering the forums about the set since BEFORE the set ever went live.

RealLoveBVB · February 24

Iriidius wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

.

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Setting up your dueling build and fighting them 1 by 1, while all others are watching?

Have you ever actually tried to X? Yeah you do often pick them off 1 by 1, and you can do things like adapt a DK dueling build to incorporate an AoE strat like Thrive in Chaos + Talons for breaking down groups, while still winning most 1v1s. Nobody was ever winning outnumbered fights against equal or better skilled opponents in the first place. However, you might still be able to clown them unaware if you had an overpowered proc that automates the hardest part...

Here is a prime example why RoA is a good set against groups (its still the old version without the delay): https://youtu.be/zz-HMjs4_ao?si=D-I_WvG9UmjnyEQ0

If that wouldn't exist, you wouldn't be able to fight such outnumbered fights.

2 things

1) that is a group of players not a ball group which is what people have a problem with.
2) they were already so neatly stacked; you could have killed them with any other set and VD which is how people use to bomb in the past.

Edit: upon further look I actually don't even think you proc'd rush of agony lol. your tether stunned them before the ROA

1) why exactly should there be a ball group? Players here were complaining about ball groups, which are using RoA, where I fully agree. This topic was never about to kill ball groups.

2) +your edit: as mentioned above, it was still the old RoA with an instant pull. RoA procced, as soon as I jumped on them.

A deto bomber would have killed some on the flag too, but then I hadn't a chance to refrag or continue the fight, as deto bombers have only this single burst. Plus the chance of dying is incredibly higher.

I just wanted to show, how RoA is intended to use. Not "abused" by ball groups or dragging players through walls and doors.

How does rush of agony give you „a chance to refrag or continue the fight“ that a bomber without it would not have? You used rush of agony to stack a group of players that was already stacked. It didn’t add anything to your survivability and you killed the players upstairs at backdoor without even using rush of agony. How does replacing rush of agony with acuity, rallyngcry or any other set and ambush or other skill with deto make you squishier? How does not using deto at second bomb reduce your dmg more than when not even slotting it?

A bomber without rush of agony could have also bombed the players at flag (with or without deto), rolled upstairs to backdoor and bombed a second time without deto.
If rush of agony did not exist you would totally still be able to fight groups stacked like this group outnumbered. You have much more dmg with deto and acuity than with roa on stacked players. Would be harder to bomb unstacked players but that is not real bombing.

I wish I recorded every second of my gameplay, then you would have some hundred videos.

Here is another one:

https://youtu.be/9l_9Mtg8F9E?si=6g6n5Igib88kuIiZ

What I mean with refrag is the 2nd pull after the "main bomb".

Deto bombers can't refrag, as they are often out of resources after prebuffing and keeping cloak up for several seconds.

RealLoveBVB · February 24

Iriidius wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Rogue_Coyote wrote: »

Before this person released said video, this forum was full of complaints from pvp players about Plaguebreak killing them within NPC stacks at flags or on doors, which were completely ignored.

Not anymore. There were also many threads about nightblades invi cloak and they have changed that too due to that.

So it totally works right now, that a bunch of players do some complaining in the forums, instead of working with base mechanics, to make things changed.

So of course RoA will be nerfed and of course new threads will appear like "nerf nbs more, nerf coldfire, nerf oils, mimimi".

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Rogue_Coyote wrote: »

Before this person released said video, this forum was full of complaints from pvp players about Plaguebreak killing them within NPC stacks at flags or on doors, which were completely ignored.

Not anymore. There were also many threads about nightblades invi cloak and they have changed that too due to that.

So it totally works right now, that a bunch of players do some complaining in the forums, instead of working with base mechanics, to make things changed.

So of course RoA will be nerfed and of course new threads will appear like "nerf nbs more, nerf coldfire, nerf oils, mimimi".

If your AD PvDoor zerg got visit by a ballgroup like PvDoor zergs deserve you would probably not defend this set so much anymore but somehow ballgroups despite claiming to prevent zergs from PvDooring whole map almost never prevent AD from PvDooring Blackreach PC EU.

As said in previous posts: I also died several times by RoA, but I don't blame the set, I blame myself for not reacting fast enough.

I defend the set, because I like to play it myself and as seen in the videos, it allows me to fight groups and stay alive (unlike deto bombers). Also I am not in a ballgroup, where I use this set.

spartaxoxo · February 25

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

I defend the set, because I like to play it myself and as seen in the videos, it allows me to fight groups and stay alive (unlike deto bombers). Also I am not in a ballgroup, where I use this set.

Honestly, it seems overpowered at that too. It should be pretty hard to win a 1vX against the people that survive the bomb. I know your skill makes that look easier than it is but still

xylena_lazarow · February 25

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

What I mean with refrag is the 2nd pull after the "main bomb"

There shouldn't be a 2nd pull. No burst damage proc should be on such a short cooldown, especially not such an overloaded one. Dark Con is a weaker and more restricted version of the effect, has a functional and fair telegraph, has a much longer cooldown at 25 sec, and yet players do still successfully use it to bomb.

Just_Attivi · March 2

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone. We’ve had some conversations yesterday about this discussion, the Rush of Agony set, and the more recent community concerns and reports. This also included consideration for the overall feedback since we released the set.

To give a little background, all movement-type actions and skills, including pulls, have the potential to be impacted by variables including character movement speed and position, high ping, the amount of data being sent between the server and the client, and anything that negatively impacts server and client latency (including attacks by bad actors). What this can result in with any pull-type action or skill, not just the Rush of Agony set pull, is cases where the client thinks the target is in one spot and the server thinks it’s in another. One of the reasons this has been surfacing more with Rush of Agony is due to how popular the set is – more people using the set creates more opportunities for the pull to be impacted.

We have some work in progress that aims to reduce the overall amount of data being sent back and forth between the client and server, investigations into some known crashes related to player bonuses, and additional logging that will help us better identify crash and disconnect causes.

For the Rush of Agony set, specifically, we are looking at a few options to help reduce the chances of the current issue where some player characters are getting into a bad state after being a target of the pull. One possible solution we are considering is having the pull bring the target player back to a specific location instead of to the source player. This will decrease the amount of movement-related data the client needs to send to the server, though it could still happen. This is still in discussion as a potential option and not locked in. We're also discussing options to reduce the overall frequency at which a player could be pulled by this set.

These changes require some dev and engineering work to be done and tested, so realistically we are looking at Update 46 timing at the earliest. Thank you for all the input and suggestions related to this.

This very much reads like someone who never actually played against the set and just read the cliff notes. I do fully agree the locational desync is a big factor to look at, and agree that from a development standpoint pulling to a set point is more logical and helps avoid the described issues.

But while we are looking at the set, I hope we arent ignoring the part where it doesnt apply CC immunity when it pulls you.... because... like Every other form of crowd control, it should apply a crowd control immunity if it successfully controls you. "Frequency" is due to be looked at, damage component should also be looked at considering how stacked this set is. The set is also popular because it is so stacked. If you were given 2 choices with no consequences, to have a screwdriver with a broken tip or a drill with every standard bit included, youd take the drill. RoA is the drill in this scenario, very few other sets can stack up against its frequency, damage, and sheer power via a CC that doesnt apply CC immunity, letting you follow up with a hard CC and making players lose control for usual 2 full GCDs.

Alchimiste1 · March 2

acastanza_ESO · March 12

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, we wanted to provide some additional context and clarification. Firstly, intentionally pulling enemy player characters through solid objects in the game is not intended or desired behavior. The way the Rush of Agony item set currently works, there is a chance of the issue described in this thread happening on accident from normal use in PvP situations, especially where both the caster and target are very mobile. It's more likely that this happens on accident from normal use than deliberate exploit - and we have no way to prove one versus the other.

In situations like this where an issue is happening both on accident and intentionally, we cannot ban players for it. Too many "innocent" players will be caught in the cross fire. We are discussing options to fix the root problem, and will follow up tomorrow. Thank you all and have a good evening.

Since this post, players have been repeatedly and intentionally abusing this bug to pull players out of and into closed keeps through shut walls and doors. This is blatant, intentional exploiting and bug abuse and should absolutely be actionable under the plain language of the terms of service. These players have been reported with multiple videos clearly showing their actions. Multiple serial exploiting of this bug can not in any way be interpreted as unintentional. Not only have these reports been ignored by ZOS, support hasn't even had the courtesy of answering. This is unacceptable on all fronts. This absolutely needs to be addressed and serial exploiters of this bug need to be banned. Hiding behind the blatantly false statement that they can't be banned for obviously intentional bug abuse is unacceptable. @ZOS_Kevin this demands action and accountability. Exploiting players through keep walls and closed doors has always been actionable bug abuse, and you must take action against these players exploiting with impunity.

Thumbless_Bot · March 12

Just_Attivi wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone. We’ve had some conversations yesterday about this discussion, the Rush of Agony set, and the more recent community concerns and reports. This also included consideration for the overall feedback since we released the set.

To give a little background, all movement-type actions and skills, including pulls, have the potential to be impacted by variables including character movement speed and position, high ping, the amount of data being sent between the server and the client, and anything that negatively impacts server and client latency (including attacks by bad actors). What this can result in with any pull-type action or skill, not just the Rush of Agony set pull, is cases where the client thinks the target is in one spot and the server thinks it’s in another. One of the reasons this has been surfacing more with Rush of Agony is due to how popular the set is – more people using the set creates more opportunities for the pull to be impacted.

We have some work in progress that aims to reduce the overall amount of data being sent back and forth between the client and server, investigations into some known crashes related to player bonuses, and additional logging that will help us better identify crash and disconnect causes.

For the Rush of Agony set, specifically, we are looking at a few options to help reduce the chances of the current issue where some player characters are getting into a bad state after being a target of the pull. One possible solution we are considering is having the pull bring the target player back to a specific location instead of to the source player. This will decrease the amount of movement-related data the client needs to send to the server, though it could still happen. This is still in discussion as a potential option and not locked in. We're also discussing options to reduce the overall frequency at which a player could be pulled by this set.

These changes require some dev and engineering work to be done and tested, so realistically we are looking at Update 46 timing at the earliest. Thank you for all the input and suggestions related to this.

This very much reads like someone who never actually played against the set and just read the cliff notes. I do fully agree the locational desync is a big factor to look at, and agree that from a development standpoint pulling to a set point is more logical and helps avoid the described issues.

But while we are looking at the set, I hope we arent ignoring the part where it doesnt apply CC immunity when it pulls you.... because... like Every other form of crowd control, it should apply a crowd control immunity if it successfully controls you. "Frequency" is due to be looked at, damage component should also be looked at considering how stacked this set is. The set is also popular because it is so stacked. If you were given 2 choices with no consequences, to have a screwdriver with a broken tip or a drill with every standard bit included, youd take the drill. RoA is the drill in this scenario, very few other sets can stack up against its frequency, damage, and sheer power via a CC that doesnt apply CC immunity, letting you follow up with a hard CC and making players lose control for usual 2 full GCDs.

It's not just the part of it that doesn't work as intended. It's the sheer imbalance and power of this set. It is stronger than an ultimate and doesn't require targeting anyone. Take dk chains as an example comparison. In 8v8 this set gives you 3700 magicka (cost of chains) times up to 8 every 8 seconds, doesnt require targeting, doesnt apply cc immunity, hits all 8 poeple really hard, and costs at least one gcd if not more to all enemies... and this is if it is working as intended... it is completely broken without it being bugged. Being bugged puts it into epic meme category. It's an absolute joke that any aoe pull sets exists in pvp but this set takes the cake.

Fyi, 12m radius is 453m2 ( area of a circle) 453 square meters every 8 seconds... this set is the worst design decision zos combat team has ever implemented into production.

Make it pve only until you can fix it... or forever.... forever is good.

Turtle_Bot · March 13

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Make it pve only until you can fix it... or forever.... forever is good.

Honestly, just make it PvE only permanently at this point. Any other fix is only going to cause controversy (see Azureblight), so just make it PvE only and be done with it.

Genfe · May 20

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone. We’ve had some conversations yesterday about this discussion, the Rush of Agony set, and the more recent community concerns and reports. This also included consideration for the overall feedback since we released the set.

To give a little background, all movement-type actions and skills, including pulls, have the potential to be impacted by variables including character movement speed and position, high ping, the amount of data being sent between the server and the client, and anything that negatively impacts server and client latency (including attacks by bad actors). What this can result in with any pull-type action or skill, not just the Rush of Agony set pull, is cases where the client thinks the target is in one spot and the server thinks it’s in another. One of the reasons this has been surfacing more with Rush of Agony is due to how popular the set is – more people using the set creates more opportunities for the pull to be impacted.

We have some work in progress that aims to reduce the overall amount of data being sent back and forth between the client and server, investigations into some known crashes related to player bonuses, and additional logging that will help us better identify crash and disconnect causes.

For the Rush of Agony set, specifically, we are looking at a few options to help reduce the chances of the current issue where some player characters are getting into a bad state after being a target of the pull. One possible solution we are considering is having the pull bring the target player back to a specific location instead of to the source player. This will decrease the amount of movement-related data the client needs to send to the server, though it could still happen. This is still in discussion as a potential option and not locked in. We're also discussing options to reduce the overall frequency at which a player could be pulled by this set.

These changes require some dev and engineering work to be done and tested, so realistically we are looking at Update 46 timing at the earliest. Thank you for all the input and suggestions related to this.

Was there an update for this set? This was in February and I didn’t see any patch note for it

xylena_lazarow · May 20

Genfe wrote: »

Was there an update for this set? This was in February and I didn’t see any patch note for it

Nothing. The Rushing Agony set is still the #1 pain point in large scale PvP and will continue to be in u46.

RealLoveBVB · May 20

Subclassing will be the #1 pain point, as they give the possibility to be even more tankier, even more powerful with healing and being able to create even more powerful damage combos. RoA is going to be a small shadow then.

xylena_lazarow · May 20

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Subclassing will be the #1 pain point, as they give the possibility to be even more tankier, even more powerful with healing and being able to create even more powerful damage combos. RoA is going to be a small shadow then.

What is subclassing doing that you find painful?

The only thing I would say it does bad is that it gives everyone access to the busted Assassin line with its insanely overpowered double spectral bows, but that's a problem with Assassin, not subclassing. Other than that it makes the existing toxic strats like Rushing Agony slightly more efficient, but they already have everything they need.

When randoms get obliterated by ball groups, they're still going to remember Rushing Agony, not the exact builds and comps that killed them. They don't even know what ball groups are running now other than "procs and heal stacking."

Orbital78 · May 20

Genfe wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone. We’ve had some conversations yesterday about this discussion, the Rush of Agony set, and the more recent community concerns and reports. This also included consideration for the overall feedback since we released the set.

To give a little background, all movement-type actions and skills, including pulls, have the potential to be impacted by variables including character movement speed and position, high ping, the amount of data being sent between the server and the client, and anything that negatively impacts server and client latency (including attacks by bad actors). What this can result in with any pull-type action or skill, not just the Rush of Agony set pull, is cases where the client thinks the target is in one spot and the server thinks it’s in another. One of the reasons this has been surfacing more with Rush of Agony is due to how popular the set is – more people using the set creates more opportunities for the pull to be impacted.

We have some work in progress that aims to reduce the overall amount of data being sent back and forth between the client and server, investigations into some known crashes related to player bonuses, and additional logging that will help us better identify crash and disconnect causes.

For the Rush of Agony set, specifically, we are looking at a few options to help reduce the chances of the current issue where some player characters are getting into a bad state after being a target of the pull. One possible solution we are considering is having the pull bring the target player back to a specific location instead of to the source player. This will decrease the amount of movement-related data the client needs to send to the server, though it could still happen. This is still in discussion as a potential option and not locked in. We're also discussing options to reduce the overall frequency at which a player could be pulled by this set.

These changes require some dev and engineering work to be done and tested, so realistically we are looking at Update 46 timing at the earliest. Thank you for all the input and suggestions related to this.

Was there an update for this set? This was in February and I didn’t see any patch note for it

There hasn't been a bugfix for the other post I made ~six+ months ago as well. I think the team might be short staffed or too much of the talent working on new projects.

kurbbie_s · May 20

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Subclassing will be the #1 pain point, as they give the possibility to be even more tankier, even more powerful with healing and being able to create even more powerful damage combos. RoA is going to be a small shadow then.

What is subclassing doing that you find painful?

The only thing I would say it does bad is that it gives everyone access to the busted Assassin line with its insanely overpowered double spectral bows, but that's a problem with Assassin, not subclassing. Other than that it makes the existing toxic strats like Rushing Agony slightly more efficient, but they already have everything they need.

When randoms get obliterated by ball groups, they're still going to remember Rushing Agony, not the exact builds and comps that killed them. They don't even know what ball groups are running now other than "procs and heal stacking."

lol we know what sets theyre running, theres only a handful of sets that preform how they do in ball groups.

ROA
Dark Convergence
Ebony
Stuhns
Shattering

Theres maybe 2 or 3 more but its a combination of those sets.

What killed pvp, was proc sets and people being able to rely on them for damage. They should have never been created with damage on them, only with boosts to stats. Before anyone says "bu buh they made a no proc server and no one played it!" yeah because those players rely on those proc sets to do well and when theyre taken away theyre at the bottom of the barrel again. 99% of ball group mains cannot 1vx or 1v1 pvp. They rely on everyone elses procs to go off.

Then going into subclassing, everyone is going to have the same setup, if youre not running with assassins' skill line youre at a disadvantage.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · May 20

kurbbie_s wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Subclassing will be the #1 pain point, as they give the possibility to be even more tankier, even more powerful with healing and being able to create even more powerful damage combos. RoA is going to be a small shadow then.

What is subclassing doing that you find painful?

The only thing I would say it does bad is that it gives everyone access to the busted Assassin line with its insanely overpowered double spectral bows, but that's a problem with Assassin, not subclassing. Other than that it makes the existing toxic strats like Rushing Agony slightly more efficient, but they already have everything they need.

When randoms get obliterated by ball groups, they're still going to remember Rushing Agony, not the exact builds and comps that killed them. They don't even know what ball groups are running now other than "procs and heal stacking."

lol we know what sets theyre running, theres only a handful of sets that preform how they do in ball groups.

I don't think you know based on the list you provided but lets not go off topic.

p.s. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin any update on what's happening with this one? you mentioned U46 for a fix but nothing so far.

cuddles_with_wroble · May 20

People don’t seem to understand that the set pulls you from where you were when it went off regardless of where you are now so that’s why you get pulled thru walls and streak. You HAVE to block and keep blocking until you’ve seen the effect go off or you will get pulled, now granted if it’s lagging than it’s legit rng whether you get yoinked or not so just hold block and pray

There is no range on the set, if you were within 10 meters when the set goes off than you are getting pulled no matter how far away you run or streak

kurbbie_s · May 20

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

kurbbie_s wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Subclassing will be the #1 pain point, as they give the possibility to be even more tankier, even more powerful with healing and being able to create even more powerful damage combos. RoA is going to be a small shadow then.

What is subclassing doing that you find painful?

The only thing I would say it does bad is that it gives everyone access to the busted Assassin line with its insanely overpowered double spectral bows, but that's a problem with Assassin, not subclassing. Other than that it makes the existing toxic strats like Rushing Agony slightly more efficient, but they already have everything they need.

When randoms get obliterated by ball groups, they're still going to remember Rushing Agony, not the exact builds and comps that killed them. They don't even know what ball groups are running now other than "procs and heal stacking."

lol we know what sets theyre running, theres only a handful of sets that preform how they do in ball groups.

I don't think you know based on the list you provided but lets not go off topic.

p.s. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin any update on what's happening with this one? you mentioned U46 for a fix but nothing so far.

if youre not running one of those sets, youre playing wrong.

Desiato · May 20

Outside of all other considerations, it's just not fun to be constantly pulled around, especially combined with standard CCs and snares.

I'm all for punishing players for being tightly stacked with vd and proxy det, but there's no gameplay basis for punishing melee players who are not even loosely stacked along the front line.

I watched a streamer I respect play last night. I try not not to hate the player, so I don't begrudge them for this, but they were using roa in their small man and I was just so happy not to be playing eso pvp.

CameraBeardThePirate · May 20

It's wild to me that ZOS even needs to "consider their options" for this set.

How about you make it obey the rule that every other skill, set, and effect in the game obeys and have it apply CC immunity? How does deciding to make the set obey the rules of the game need "consideration" in the first place?

xylena_lazarow · May 20

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

People don’t seem to understand that the set pulls you from where you were when it went off regardless of where you are now so that’s why you get pulled thru walls and streak. You HAVE to

Oh they understand just fine, and they know how much absolute crap it is. What do they have to do? Well, they can head to the forums, resign themselves to playing a broken game, or uninstall. You can perform perfectly on an individual level against Rushing Agony and still die because your teammates all exploded. Anti-skill, anti-teamwork, it's just heinous.

ercknn · May 21

I say fix the exploit but as for RoA being a broken set being OP, I think
RoA players are easy marks.

Just turn the volume up and you can hear their “rush”; gap closer move hit (then just hold block) and you will never get pulled.

I like seeing NB RoA gap close in and I block their gap closer and then they systematically use soul tether and miss.
Then I usually end up mopping them up in < 3 sec. ;unless they have an Off Heal Bodyguard (which IMO is the worst thing about PvP)

Let players keep thinking it’s good.
It’s the complete definition of a carry set and requires minimal brain power to use.

I use to think it should get nerfed but with how many new players that in brings into PvP that think they are “good” using it….i think they should keep it the way it is.
You RoA..I say….Welcome to ESO PvP

xylena_lazarow · May 21

ercknn wrote: »

I use to think it should get nerfed but with how many new players that in brings into PvP that think they are “good” using it….i think they should keep it the way it is.

Those guys keep dying but they also keep coming back and rolling the dice until they get the lucky chain reaction. I kill these guys over and over in BGs but having to play around Rushing Agony's rule breaking garbage all match is flat unfun, to the point where I just stop playing. This is not a victory for anyone. This is why PvP is dead.

Oh and I'm still trying to figure out how to block 200k worth of VD procs. Help would be appreciated. Thank you.

zammo · May 21

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's wild to me that ZOS even needs to "consider their options" for this set.

How about you make it obey the rule that every other skill, set, and effect in the game obeys and have it apply CC immunity? How does deciding to make the set obey the rules of the game need "consideration" in the first place?

^^ This, all day long.

MJallday · May 21

its amazing how ZOS still think this is the key problem for this set.

the key problem is that it can be continously spammed in ball groups and there is literally no defence. it makes them unkillable (along with x healing and the fact it can pull you from grahtwood to cyrodil through solid objects)

ive stated the solution time and time again.. give it a 60-120 second cooldown on use. therefore it can still be used as it was intended (as a counter against ball groups) whilst not being used as a tool for them.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · May 21

kurbbie_s wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

kurbbie_s wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Subclassing will be the #1 pain point, as they give the possibility to be even more tankier, even more powerful with healing and being able to create even more powerful damage combos. RoA is going to be a small shadow then.

What is subclassing doing that you find painful?

The only thing I would say it does bad is that it gives everyone access to the busted Assassin line with its insanely overpowered double spectral bows, but that's a problem with Assassin, not subclassing. Other than that it makes the existing toxic strats like Rushing Agony slightly more efficient, but they already have everything they need.

When randoms get obliterated by ball groups, they're still going to remember Rushing Agony, not the exact builds and comps that killed them. They don't even know what ball groups are running now other than "procs and heal stacking."

lol we know what sets theyre running, theres only a handful of sets that preform how they do in ball groups.

I don't think you know based on the list you provided but lets not go off topic.

p.s. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin any update on what's happening with this one? you mentioned U46 for a fix but nothing so far.

if youre not running one of those sets, youre playing wrong.

Which groups do you think are running Ebon, Shattering or Stuhns?

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · May 21

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

ercknn wrote: »

I use to think it should get nerfed but with how many new players that in brings into PvP that think they are “good” using it….i think they should keep it the way it is.

Those guys keep dying but they also keep coming back and rolling the dice until they get the lucky chain reaction. I kill these guys over and over in BGs but having to play around Rushing Agony's rule breaking garbage all match is flat unfun, to the point where I just stop playing. This is not a victory for anyone. This is why PvP is dead.

Oh and I'm still trying to figure out how to block 200k worth of VD procs. Help would be appreciated. Thank you.

The radius of VD isn't so big and kills from VD don't re-explode so just make sure you're on the edge of likely pull spots compared to the rest of the zerg, hold block and you'll be fine

kurbbie_s · May 21

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Rogue_Coyote wrote: »

Before this person released said video, this forum was full of complaints from pvp players about Plaguebreak killing them within NPC stacks at flags or on doors, which were completely ignored.

Not anymore. There were also many threads about nightblades invi cloak and they have changed that too due to that.

So it totally works right now, that a bunch of players do some complaining in the forums, instead of working with base mechanics, to make things changed.

So of course RoA will be nerfed and of course new threads will appear like "nerf nbs more, nerf coldfire, nerf oils, mimimi".

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Rogue_Coyote wrote: »

Before this person released said video, this forum was full of complaints from pvp players about Plaguebreak killing them within NPC stacks at flags or on doors, which were completely ignored.

Not anymore. There were also many threads about nightblades invi cloak and they have changed that too due to that.

So it totally works right now, that a bunch of players do some complaining in the forums, instead of working with base mechanics, to make things changed.

So of course RoA will be nerfed and of course new threads will appear like "nerf nbs more, nerf coldfire, nerf oils, mimimi".

If your AD PvDoor zerg got visit by a ballgroup like PvDoor zergs deserve you would probably not defend this set so much anymore but somehow ballgroups despite claiming to prevent zergs from PvDooring whole map almost never prevent AD from PvDooring Blackreach PC EU.

As said in previous posts: I also died several times by RoA, but I don't blame the set, I blame myself for not reacting fast enough.

I defend the set, because I like to play it myself and as seen in the videos, it allows me to fight groups and stay alive (unlike deto bombers). Also I am not in a ballgroup, where I use this set.

so without this set providing free unbreakable CC youd be dyiung to groups? Lol, if the set carries you that much then it should be nerfed, how do you not see that?

kurbbie_s · May 21

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's wild to me that ZOS even needs to "consider their options" for this set.

How about you make it obey the rule that every other skill, set, and effect in the game obeys and have it apply CC immunity? How does deciding to make the set obey the rules of the game need "consideration" in the first place?

because the lead combat dev plays pvp and most likely runs the set.