Is it fair gameplay to use use Rush of Agony to pull players long distances and through objects?

kurbbie_s

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

kurbbie_s wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

kurbbie_s wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Subclassing will be the #1 pain point, as they give the possibility to be even more tankier, even more powerful with healing and being able to create even more powerful damage combos. RoA is going to be a small shadow then.

What is subclassing doing that you find painful?

The only thing I would say it does bad is that it gives everyone access to the busted Assassin line with its insanely overpowered double spectral bows, but that's a problem with Assassin, not subclassing. Other than that it makes the existing toxic strats like Rushing Agony slightly more efficient, but they already have everything they need.

When randoms get obliterated by ball groups, they're still going to remember Rushing Agony, not the exact builds and comps that killed them. They don't even know what ball groups are running now other than "procs and heal stacking."

lol we know what sets theyre running, theres only a handful of sets that preform how they do in ball groups.

I don't think you know based on the list you provided but lets not go off topic.


p.s. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin any update on what's happening with this one? you mentioned U46 for a fix but nothing so far.

if youre not running one of those sets, youre playing wrong.

Which groups do you think are running Ebon, Shattering or Stuhns?

yeah let me pull out my handbook of all the gimped people who ball group, cause you know we keep one of those lying around.

The_Meathead

MJallday wrote: »

its amazing how ZOS still think this is the key problem for this set.

the key problem is that it can be continously spammed in ball groups and there is literally no defence. it makes them unkillable (along with x healing and the fact it can pull you from grahtwood to cyrodil through solid objects)

ive stated the solution time and time again.. give it a 60-120 second cooldown on use. therefore it can still be used as it was intended (as a counter against ball groups) whilst not being used as a tool for them.

This.

The set is such a crutch. ROA on top of insano levels of stacked Heals/Shields makes even mediocre Ballgroups into absolute juggernauts. That sort of thing really diminishes the game and drives so many players away from Cyrodiil.

Ballgroups are always gonna exist because they're the top possibility of theorycrafting (ie, a full group tricked out in total synergy and planning), but the less common ones with true leadership and great execution would still shine without low-hanging fruit like ROA. Right now, it's just too easy and it's a blight on Cyrodiil.

Make the cooldown MUCH longer, at the very least. It's ludicrous how frequently it can be used for how impactful it is on gameplay.

kurbbie_s

ercknn wrote: »

I say fix the exploit but as for RoA being a broken set being OP, I think
RoA players are easy marks.

Just turn the volume up and you can hear their “rush”; gap closer move hit (then just hold block) and you will never get pulled.

I like seeing NB RoA gap close in and I block their gap closer and then they systematically use soul tether and miss.
Then I usually end up mopping them up in < 3 sec. ;unless they have an Off Heal Bodyguard (which IMO is the worst thing about PvP)

Let players keep thinking it’s good.
It’s the complete definition of a carry set and requires minimal brain power to use.

I use to think it should get nerfed but with how many new players that in brings into PvP that think they are “good” using it….i think they should keep it the way it is.
You RoA..I say….Welcome to ESO PvP

doesnt matter if i flock the incap or gap closer, if the dude 12m away doesnt, im getting pulled.

kurbbie_s

MJallday wrote: »

its amazing how ZOS still think this is the key problem for this set.

the key problem is that it can be continously spammed in ball groups and there is literally no defence. it makes them unkillable (along with x healing and the fact it can pull you from grahtwood to cyrodil through solid objects)

ive stated the solution time and time again.. give it a 60-120 second cooldown on use. therefore it can still be used as it was intended (as a counter against ball groups) whilst not being used as a tool for them.

the only thing that needs to be done is remove the tag about not applying CC immunity. There is no reason this 1 set breaks the rules.

BXR_Lonestar

Yes, we all know it is broken and not really working as intended. But what else do you suggest people use to pull people together in similar fashion? Voidbash doesn't work that great. Dark Convergance has too long of a cooldown. AOE Scribed pulls have limited range and are difficult to time.

Honestly, I wouldn't object to them just fixing the set to behave in a more predictable fashion, as it is really unpredictable what is going to happen when you go for a pull, who its going to pull, or where from.

But until the Devs give us something that is actually a viable alternative, people are going to continue to use this set.

xylena_lazarow

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

The radius of VD isn't so big and kills from VD don't re-explode so just make sure you're on the edge of likely pull spots compared to the rest of the zerg, hold block and you'll be fine

I was being satirical but thanks. I'm well aware, I've developed some pretty bizarre muscle memory timing to block, move myself just outside fear radius, block again for the 2nd chain pull, and then maybe I'm clear to roll or counterattack. Anything short of absolute perfection and I'm dead on the spot, if the game doesn't register my block fast enough due to lag I'm probably dead to exploding allies on the pull, no chance for counterplay on the break free at all.

Meanwhile, the RoA user can close their eyes, press 2 buttons, then spam. It's downright insulting design.

The_Meathead

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Yes, we all know it is broken and not really working as intended. But what else do you suggest people use to pull people together in similar fashion? Voidbash doesn't work that great. Dark Convergance has too long of a cooldown. AOE Scribed pulls have limited range and are difficult to time.

Honestly, I wouldn't object to them just fixing the set to behave in a more predictable fashion, as it is really unpredictable what is going to happen when you go for a pull, who its going to pull, or where from.

But until the Devs give us something that is actually a viable alternative, people are going to continue to use this set.

Oh noes! Heaven forbid it's difficult to pull huge clumps of people together for Ult-Dumping.

It's this one set making it so easy that's problematic, not the reverse.

CameraBeardThePirate

kurbbie_s wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's wild to me that ZOS even needs to "consider their options" for this set.

How about you make it obey the rule that every other skill, set, and effect in the game obeys and have it apply CC immunity? How does deciding to make the set obey the rules of the game need "consideration" in the first place?

because the lead combat dev plays pvp and most likely runs the set.

This is pretty obviously false considering the combat devs couldn't even identify the set when asked by SypherPK during the BG stream they did recently.

SypherPK, when getting double stunned by Rush repeatedly, asked the combat team what skill or set was pulling their group in. The combat team couldn't even tell him what was happening. This isn't some conspiracy where the devs secretly run the set in their off time - they simply lack the necessary knowledge to understand why the set is overpowered, and our feedback on these forums trying to explain it to them never reaches their ears.

The_Meathead

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

kurbbie_s wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's wild to me that ZOS even needs to "consider their options" for this set.

How about you make it obey the rule that every other skill, set, and effect in the game obeys and have it apply CC immunity? How does deciding to make the set obey the rules of the game need "consideration" in the first place?

because the lead combat dev plays pvp and most likely runs the set.

This is pretty obviously false considering the combat devs couldn't even identify the set when asked by SypherPK during the BG stream they did recently.

SypherPK, when getting double stunned by Rush repeatedly, asked the combat team what skill or set was pulling their group in. The combat team couldn't even tell him what was happening. This isn't some conspiracy where the devs secretly run the set in their off time - they simply lack the necessary knowledge to understand why the set is overpowered, and our feedback on these forums trying to explain it to them never reaches their ears.

I *wish* the Devs were so involved and in tune with current PvP that they were out there tweaking their own favorite classes and sets for advantage.

That would at least mean they know their product from a ground floor view. The handful of OPed outliers would probably be a small price to pay for such truly immersed understanding and experience with their product.

xylena_lazarow

The_Meathead wrote: »

I *wish* the Devs were so involved and in tune with current PvP that they were out there tweaking their own favorite classes and sets for advantage.

Devil's advocate: have you seen the buffed NB Assassin tree featuring double spec bow in action yet?

IIRC lead combat dev played a tanky support build similar to the ones ubiquitous in Cyro zergs.

I do wish the devs would join us for PvP more often so they can see these all things first hand.

The_Meathead

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

The_Meathead wrote: »

I *wish* the Devs were so involved and in tune with current PvP that they were out there tweaking their own favorite classes and sets for advantage.

Devil's advocate: have you seen the buffed NB Assassin tree featuring double spec bow in action yet?

IIRC lead combat dev played a tanky support build similar to the ones ubiquitous in Cyro zergs.

I do wish the devs would join us for PvP more often so they can see these all things first hand.

I feel like RoA and the upcoming double Grim Focus are probably the two biggest forms of proof we have that the Devs don't play their own PvP frequently or with much intent, but I also expect some other Subclassing craziness will "shine" through without much hope for correction.

Throw in Ballgroups' stacked heals/shields and you really have definitive answer that no Dev is logging in to play their own Cyrodiil on any sort of regular basis. There's just no way someone would be on the receiving end of that a few times and not be itching to correct it.

So yeah, I'd personally welcome some hardcore PvP Dev over-buffing his favorite class' sustain or something in exchange for simply having one who plays the game like a total sweat and understands what it actually feels like to participate.

xylena_lazarow

kurbbie_s wrote: »

yeah let me pull out my handbook of all the gimped people who ball group, cause you know we keep one of those lying around

I'm confused now. Is Stuhn's part of the magic handful? Or will it gimp my ball group? Thank you for your help.

NxJoeyD

IMO, Rush of Agony really has no place in PvP; especially when we consider VD existing and actually having a purpose.

Don’t tell us, as players, that you’re implementing Vicious Death as an instrument to break up Zerg groups … then turn around and later implement a set whereby spammers can skill-less-ly build their own Zerg when one didn’t already exist.

And the fact that RoA doesn’t apply CC immunity is beyond bonkers. I thought drinking on the job was prohibited nowadays, maybe I need to get out of finance and into game design.

The Devs spoon fed poor combat gameplay in PvP by enabling mechanics like this to coexist.

There are very few counters for RoA. And please, don’t just come out with “hold block. Listen, blocking is already a key counter mechanic for a LAUNDRY list of existing abilities and attacks. The last thing we need is to add yet another item to the list where we just say “well hold block” … ESPECIALLY when RoA doesn’t have a proper telegraph.

If the proc-ing player glowed a specific color for the sets cast time duration that might be one thing but that doesn’t happen. In real world combat there’s no logical telegraph. Then we have to factor in the bugs such as pull through objects and … riddle me this .. I’ve been pulled THROUGH a block! It happened today in a BG. Now I know that’s not intended but it’s happening. And whether it’s because the servers can’t resolve all this or some other glitch; the combination of bugs + no strategy spam mechanics is simply enabling such a low bar for gameplay combat.

And these players are the ones netting 15+, 20+ kills in a BG match like it took skills when in reality the number of counters is minimal. Players can just pull a group into an AoE stun or Immob. and you’re body meat. I Sorc man And run Nibenay Bay. I can streak and have a movement shield and even I can’t regularly counter RoA when paired with things like Soul Tether & Vicious death; especially when so many players are spamming it.

reazea

That ZOS hasn't done anything at all to deal with the free pull sets, namely RoA and now warden charm, tells me that ZOS isn't spending much time at all trying to improve their PvP experience. (vengeance is ZOS doing something other than fixing their PvP system, it's creating a whole new system)