Is it fair gameplay to use use Rush of Agony to pull players long distances and through objects?

Avran_Sylt · February 17

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

show previous quotes

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Pull doesn't happen if you're blocking.

And then you also have to avoid the fear stun and not simply get bombed by the ball group because you stood still blocking. Inevitably you conclude that the only "counter" to RoA is to stay very far away and never engage at all.

Ultimately a complaint about it not applying CC immunity, to which I agree that it should apply CC immunity. (In this case you'd then just let it pull you instead of blocking so you have CC immunity while being bunched up).

spartaxoxo · February 17

No

Per the COC

5.2 In relation to online/competitive games, you will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax.

It doesn't matter if it's a bug or just a clever exploit of a game mechanic, we know full well we aren't supposed to pull people through walls.

ETA
If it happened by accident because you were trying to escape, that's not abuse. If it you loudly declared your intention to be annoying and did it repeatedly in a short time frame on purpose, then yes, you're clearly trying to abuse it. When it comes to a game mechanic, intent should matter.

LadyGP · February 17

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Just hold block.

The amount of times I have been told this and wanted to punch a wall.... ARG! lol

It's not that easy. Again, I've ran co-lead in ball group wearing rush and I've seen people blocking and I've pulled them into rush.

It's just a clunky set in lag plain and simple.

xylena_lazarow · February 17

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

But rush of agony isn't an issue, especially when played by solo players, who wants to fight against groups.

No it is not hard to kill solos using RoA, all they can do is clown unaware targets, they have zero chance of using it to punch above their weight class in an actual engagement. It is nonetheless still extremely unfun to suddenly be yanked across the battlefield because some rando far behind you off screen was wearing a set. Often through terrain.

Yes it is a problem that Rush of Agony automates the strat of ball groups. The sweatiest tryhard groups are automating their strat with a brainless proc set. Look around you, where did all the zergs go? They all quit in no small thanks to this guar turd of a set turning a hard matchup into unfun unfair cheese. It's not just "the performance" it's also this.

RealLoveBVB · February 17

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

show previous quotes

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

But rush of agony isn't an issue, especially when played by solo players, who wants to fight against groups.

No it is not hard to kill solos using RoA, all they can do is clown unaware targets, they have zero chance of using it to punch above their weight class in an actual engagement. It is nonetheless still extremely unfun to suddenly be yanked across the battlefield because some rando far behind you off screen was wearing a set. Often through terrain.

Yes it is a problem that Rush of Agony automates the strat of ball groups. The sweatiest tryhard groups are automating their strat with a brainless proc set. Look around you, where did all the zergs go? They all quit in no small thanks to this guar turd of a set turning a hard matchup into unfun unfair cheese. It's not just "the performance" it's also this.

I haven't said anything about killing players using RoA. RoA was introduced to counter groups (it's sadly abused by ball groups), so it's actually a nice opportunity to fight many players alone. Or how are you going to fight groups when being alone?
Setting up your dueling build and fighting them 1 by 1, while all others are watching?

LadyGP · February 17

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

show previous quotes

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

But rush of agony isn't an issue, especially when played by solo players, who wants to fight against groups.

No it is not hard to kill solos using RoA, all they can do is clown unaware targets, they have zero chance of using it to punch above their weight class in an actual engagement. It is nonetheless still extremely unfun to suddenly be yanked across the battlefield because some rando far behind you off screen was wearing a set. Often through terrain.

Yes it is a problem that Rush of Agony automates the strat of ball groups. The sweatiest tryhard groups are automating their strat with a brainless proc set. Look around you, where did all the zergs go? They all quit in no small thanks to this guar turd of a set turning a hard matchup into unfun unfair cheese. It's not just "the performance" it's also this.

I haven't said anything about killing players using RoA. RoA was introduced to counter groups (it's sadly abused by ball groups), so it's actually a nice opportunity to fight many players alone. Or how are you going to fight groups when being alone?
Setting up your dueling build and fighting them 1 by 1, while all others are watching?

The problem is any set that is "designed to counter ball groups" will work for us because we will just use it for clumps of people that, position wise, act as a ball group.

Without dramatically making a change to skills (like the upcoming test) I fail to see an instance where a set will counter a ball group.

Yes... there was Azureblight which.... opened a whole new set of worms and IMO wasn't working as intended (the scaling of it didn't align with the tooltip and could be easily exploited which is what made it "work" on ball groups) - but that is a whole different conversation and controversy lol.

RealLoveBVB · February 17

LadyGP wrote: »

show previous quotes

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

But rush of agony isn't an issue, especially when played by solo players, who wants to fight against groups.

No it is not hard to kill solos using RoA, all they can do is clown unaware targets, they have zero chance of using it to punch above their weight class in an actual engagement. It is nonetheless still extremely unfun to suddenly be yanked across the battlefield because some rando far behind you off screen was wearing a set. Often through terrain.

Yes it is a problem that Rush of Agony automates the strat of ball groups. The sweatiest tryhard groups are automating their strat with a brainless proc set. Look around you, where did all the zergs go? They all quit in no small thanks to this guar turd of a set turning a hard matchup into unfun unfair cheese. It's not just "the performance" it's also this.

I haven't said anything about killing players using RoA. RoA was introduced to counter groups (it's sadly abused by ball groups), so it's actually a nice opportunity to fight many players alone. Or how are you going to fight groups when being alone?
Setting up your dueling build and fighting them 1 by 1, while all others are watching?

The problem is any set that is "designed to counter ball groups" will work for us because we will just use it for clumps of people that, position wise, act as a ball group.

Exactly. That's why I am wondering why so much hate and threads against a set, while something totally different (ball groups) is the real issue.

spartaxoxo · February 17

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

show previous quotes

LadyGP wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

But rush of agony isn't an issue, especially when played by solo players, who wants to fight against groups.

No it is not hard to kill solos using RoA, all they can do is clown unaware targets, they have zero chance of using it to punch above their weight class in an actual engagement. It is nonetheless still extremely unfun to suddenly be yanked across the battlefield because some rando far behind you off screen was wearing a set. Often through terrain.

Yes it is a problem that Rush of Agony automates the strat of ball groups. The sweatiest tryhard groups are automating their strat with a brainless proc set. Look around you, where did all the zergs go? They all quit in no small thanks to this guar turd of a set turning a hard matchup into unfun unfair cheese. It's not just "the performance" it's also this.

I haven't said anything about killing players using RoA. RoA was introduced to counter groups (it's sadly abused by ball groups), so it's actually a nice opportunity to fight many players alone. Or how are you going to fight groups when being alone?
Setting up your dueling build and fighting them 1 by 1, while all others are watching?

The problem is any set that is "designed to counter ball groups" will work for us because we will just use it for clumps of people that, position wise, act as a ball group.

Exactly. That's why I am wondering why so much hate and threads against a set, while something totally different (ball groups) is the real issue.

There can be multiple issues. ROA pulling people through walls is clearly not right

LadyGP · February 17

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

show previous quotes

LadyGP wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

But rush of agony isn't an issue, especially when played by solo players, who wants to fight against groups.

No it is not hard to kill solos using RoA, all they can do is clown unaware targets, they have zero chance of using it to punch above their weight class in an actual engagement. It is nonetheless still extremely unfun to suddenly be yanked across the battlefield because some rando far behind you off screen was wearing a set. Often through terrain.

Yes it is a problem that Rush of Agony automates the strat of ball groups. The sweatiest tryhard groups are automating their strat with a brainless proc set. Look around you, where did all the zergs go? They all quit in no small thanks to this guar turd of a set turning a hard matchup into unfun unfair cheese. It's not just "the performance" it's also this.

I haven't said anything about killing players using RoA. RoA was introduced to counter groups (it's sadly abused by ball groups), so it's actually a nice opportunity to fight many players alone. Or how are you going to fight groups when being alone?
Setting up your dueling build and fighting them 1 by 1, while all others are watching?

The problem is any set that is "designed to counter ball groups" will work for us because we will just use it for clumps of people that, position wise, act as a ball group.

Exactly. That's why I am wondering why so much hate and threads against a set, while something totally different (ball groups) is the real issue.

Ball groups, small man groups, zergs, they all are kind of the same on the most basic level.

A ball group is basically just like a trifecta prog. Ball groups spend a ton of time working on strat, min/maxing, etc.

Are there some aspects of ball groups that need to be corrected - absolutley - they are almost un-killable but to say they are "the problem" is a bit short sighted IMO. When I'm running solo the AD zerg is the problem for me... so "the problem" is very subjective.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

show previous quotes

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

But rush of agony isn't an issue, especially when played by solo players, who wants to fight against groups.

No it is not hard to kill solos using RoA, all they can do is clown unaware targets, they have zero chance of using it to punch above their weight class in an actual engagement. It is nonetheless still extremely unfun to suddenly be yanked across the battlefield because some rando far behind you off screen was wearing a set. Often through terrain.

Yes it is a problem that Rush of Agony automates the strat of ball groups. The sweatiest tryhard groups are automating their strat with a brainless proc set. Look around you, where did all the zergs go? They all quit in no small thanks to this guar turd of a set turning a hard matchup into unfun unfair cheese. It's not just "the performance" it's also this.

I haven't said anything about killing players using RoA. RoA was introduced to counter groups (it's sadly abused by ball groups), so it's actually a nice opportunity to fight many players alone. Or how are you going to fight groups when being alone?
Setting up your dueling build and fighting them 1 by 1, while all others are watching?

The problem is any set that is "designed to counter ball groups" will work for us because we will just use it for clumps of people that, position wise, act as a ball group.

Exactly. That's why I am wondering why so much hate and threads against a set, while something totally different (ball groups) is the real issue.

There can be multiple issues. ROA pulling people through walls is clearly not right

Yeah, agreed. Thats why I say the set isn't really working as intended IMO due to a few issues - but mainly just the server/clients being out of sync and the lag.

Teeba_Shei · February 17

LadyGP wrote: »

show previous quotes

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

But rush of agony isn't an issue, especially when played by solo players, who wants to fight against groups.

No it is not hard to kill solos using RoA, all they can do is clown unaware targets, they have zero chance of using it to punch above their weight class in an actual engagement. It is nonetheless still extremely unfun to suddenly be yanked across the battlefield because some rando far behind you off screen was wearing a set. Often through terrain.

Yes it is a problem that Rush of Agony automates the strat of ball groups. The sweatiest tryhard groups are automating their strat with a brainless proc set. Look around you, where did all the zergs go? They all quit in no small thanks to this guar turd of a set turning a hard matchup into unfun unfair cheese. It's not just "the performance" it's also this.

I haven't said anything about killing players using RoA. RoA was introduced to counter groups (it's sadly abused by ball groups), so it's actually a nice opportunity to fight many players alone. Or how are you going to fight groups when being alone?
Setting up your dueling build and fighting them 1 by 1, while all others are watching?

The problem is any set that is "designed to counter ball groups" will work for us because we will just use it for clumps of people that, position wise, act as a ball group.

Exactly. That's why I am wondering why so much hate and threads against a set, while something totally different (ball groups) is the real issue.

Ball groups, small man groups, zergs, they all are kind of the same on the most basic level.

A ball group is basically just like a trifecta prog. Ball groups spend a ton of time working on strat, min/maxing, etc.

Are there some aspects of ball groups that need to be corrected - absolutley - they are almost un-killable but to say they are "the problem" is a bit short sighted IMO. When I'm running solo the AD zerg is the problem for me... so "the problem" is very subjective.
show previous quotes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

But rush of agony isn't an issue, especially when played by solo players, who wants to fight against groups.

No it is not hard to kill solos using RoA, all they can do is clown unaware targets, they have zero chance of using it to punch above their weight class in an actual engagement. It is nonetheless still extremely unfun to suddenly be yanked across the battlefield because some rando far behind you off screen was wearing a set. Often through terrain.

Yes it is a problem that Rush of Agony automates the strat of ball groups. The sweatiest tryhard groups are automating their strat with a brainless proc set. Look around you, where did all the zergs go? They all quit in no small thanks to this guar turd of a set turning a hard matchup into unfun unfair cheese. It's not just "the performance" it's also this.

I haven't said anything about killing players using RoA. RoA was introduced to counter groups (it's sadly abused by ball groups), so it's actually a nice opportunity to fight many players alone. Or how are you going to fight groups when being alone?
Setting up your dueling build and fighting them 1 by 1, while all others are watching?

The problem is any set that is "designed to counter ball groups" will work for us because we will just use it for clumps of people that, position wise, act as a ball group.

Exactly. That's why I am wondering why so much hate and threads against a set, while something totally different (ball groups) is the real issue.

There can be multiple issues. ROA pulling people through walls is clearly not right

Yeah, agreed. Thats why I say the set isn't really working as intended IMO due to a few issues - but mainly just the server/clients being out of sync and the lag.

They just need to add a LOS check at the time the rush chain hits the player rather than just the LOS check at the time the chain starts moving toward the player.

Yes it is an exploit to pull people directly through walls with it. There is a difference between porting with your shade and dragging people directly through a solid object versus you trying to LOS and you clip the side of the wall when you are pulled. One is certainly done with intention if done multiple times in a row due to the timing required to pull of that trick.

The reason it is an exploit is because you end up pulling people further than intended with the set and being pulled through walls has a moderate chance of desyncing the character or crashing them completely off the game.

forum_gpt · February 17

Synapsis123 wrote: »

show previous quotes

LadyGP wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

But rush of agony isn't an issue, especially when played by solo players, who wants to fight against groups.

No it is not hard to kill solos using RoA, all they can do is clown unaware targets, they have zero chance of using it to punch above their weight class in an actual engagement. It is nonetheless still extremely unfun to suddenly be yanked across the battlefield because some rando far behind you off screen was wearing a set. Often through terrain.

Yes it is a problem that Rush of Agony automates the strat of ball groups. The sweatiest tryhard groups are automating their strat with a brainless proc set. Look around you, where did all the zergs go? They all quit in no small thanks to this guar turd of a set turning a hard matchup into unfun unfair cheese. It's not just "the performance" it's also this.

I haven't said anything about killing players using RoA. RoA was introduced to counter groups (it's sadly abused by ball groups), so it's actually a nice opportunity to fight many players alone. Or how are you going to fight groups when being alone?
Setting up your dueling build and fighting them 1 by 1, while all others are watching?

The problem is any set that is "designed to counter ball groups" will work for us because we will just use it for clumps of people that, position wise, act as a ball group.

Exactly. That's why I am wondering why so much hate and threads against a set, while something totally different (ball groups) is the real issue.

Ball groups, small man groups, zergs, they all are kind of the same on the most basic level.

A ball group is basically just like a trifecta prog. Ball groups spend a ton of time working on strat, min/maxing, etc.

Are there some aspects of ball groups that need to be corrected - absolutley - they are almost un-killable but to say they are "the problem" is a bit short sighted IMO. When I'm running solo the AD zerg is the problem for me... so "the problem" is very subjective.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

But rush of agony isn't an issue, especially when played by solo players, who wants to fight against groups.

No it is not hard to kill solos using RoA, all they can do is clown unaware targets, they have zero chance of using it to punch above their weight class in an actual engagement. It is nonetheless still extremely unfun to suddenly be yanked across the battlefield because some rando far behind you off screen was wearing a set. Often through terrain.

Yes it is a problem that Rush of Agony automates the strat of ball groups. The sweatiest tryhard groups are automating their strat with a brainless proc set. Look around you, where did all the zergs go? They all quit in no small thanks to this guar turd of a set turning a hard matchup into unfun unfair cheese. It's not just "the performance" it's also this.

I haven't said anything about killing players using RoA. RoA was introduced to counter groups (it's sadly abused by ball groups), so it's actually a nice opportunity to fight many players alone. Or how are you going to fight groups when being alone?
Setting up your dueling build and fighting them 1 by 1, while all others are watching?

The problem is any set that is "designed to counter ball groups" will work for us because we will just use it for clumps of people that, position wise, act as a ball group.

Exactly. That's why I am wondering why so much hate and threads against a set, while something totally different (ball groups) is the real issue.

There can be multiple issues. ROA pulling people through walls is clearly not right

Yeah, agreed. Thats why I say the set isn't really working as intended IMO due to a few issues - but mainly just the server/clients being out of sync and the lag.

They just need to add a LOS check at the time the rush chain hits the player rather than just the LOS check at the time the chain starts moving toward the player.

Yes it is an exploit to pull people directly through walls with it. There is a difference between porting with your shade and dragging people directly through a solid object versus you trying to LOS and you clip the side of the wall when you are pulled. One is certainly done with intention if done multiple times in a row due to the timing required to pull of that trick.

The reason it is an exploit is because you end up pulling people further than intended with the set and being pulled through walls has a moderate chance of desyncing the character or crashing them completely off the game.

I completely agree. I’ve been pulled like that by Rush of Agony before, and it completely desynced my character—sometimes even disconnecting me back to the login screen. This happens even more frequently in battlegrounds, and it’s clear that the way the set interacts with terrain needs to be fixed. The difference between an accident and intentional abuse is when someone repeatedly does it on purpose, knowing exactly how to trigger it.

IncultaWolf · February 17

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

show previous quotes

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

If you see an enemy teleporting to an ally close to you, you are starting to hold block. You won't get pulled in.

Assuming you're positioned perfectly outside the radius of the fear spam and also block all the subsequent pulls, congratulations you've survived Rushing Agony.

But since you slowed down so much to block, now there's a ball group directly on top of you. You won't survive them just holding block, and their AoE will kill you the moment you let go of block to move. What now?

Hold block and streak out, if you aren't playing sorcerer, well what are you even doing in pvp. /s

Desiato · February 17

This set is a good example of why PVP is so broken. It's obvious to pretty much everyone this set has clear issues in PVP and is obviously disliked by a majority of players. Yet it takes years to get any kind of attention from the developer.

PVP games require quick adjustments for pure gameplay purposes sometimes.

IMO, they're not even seriously trying. The game is so successful overall they can afford to be completely whimsical about pvp. I wish they would treat it like their survival as a company depended on them releasing a quality pvp product.

I would bet Golden Pursuits have had more dev attention than all PVP activities combined the past 5 years.

So if you're a serious PVP player, do yourself a favor and find a dev that takes PVP and your time seriously.

When I don't play ESO, I play a real pvp game. I don't always agree with the devs, of course, but I respect them for trying *REALLY HARD* every month to make the game better through constant iteration.

Iriidius · February 17

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

show previous quotes

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

One thing I have noticed (as someone who runs Rush in a ball group and has also been the victim of many deaths from rush) is that the "lag" doesn't work well with rush.

What I mean by that is - and this is just my observations and what I think is happening - is that... with the uptick in lag the server and clients can become out of sync for a small window (usually when things hit the fan during big fights).

On my screen I see player A in X position on the map.
On their screen they are already passing through position X and moving away from it.
When I see them at position X that is when I go in for my pull.
They continue to move away from X on their screen (but I think the server is still thinking they are closer to position X than they really are)

As a result... they get pulled from a mile away.. sometimes even after going around a wall and way out of line of sight.

Before I get roasted.. yes I'm away they increased the radius from rush.. we all have been pulled and said "No way I was near that"... I've said this 100 times myself in the last few months.

There is definetly something off with rush since the changes were made. Yes, it's easier to avoid getting pulled now (when you're closer to it and can see it) but if you're passing through position X and then get crazy far away... you still get pulled in.

Thats just my 2 cents on why it's performing the way it is. I could be totally wrong on this but I'd say it's not performing as intended and it's not something "in the code" they can just tweak to make it work correctly. I think it's a client/server sync issue that is much harder to fix. Curious to see what others think.

Indeed.

Such nuance is often lost in the ill-informed brigading against the set, but, as you know, in heavy lag the set often isn't reliable even from the POV of the wearer.

Given that the entire pull damage sequence is very tightly coordinated and on a strict schedule, using the set and expecting a pull of targets that are visually within the radius at time T but instead getting a pull of a much smaller subset of those targets at time T+2, T+3, T+4 or even, in the heaviest of lag, simply not having a pull at all despite meeting the proc criteria, is actually less helpful for outputting damage than simply not wearing the set to begin with.

That said, basically all mechanics go out the window at that point and fights devolve into basically RNG of whose abilities are actually recognized and actioned by the server and do those actions happen to occur at advantageous or disadvantageous times for the parties in combat.

Also, to answer the OP: using the set with the intention of pulling people through walls and crashing them is definitely not intended behavior. And if you're using the set with Shade (which serves no purpose whatsoever other than to achieve such outcomes) then you know what you're doing and probably shouldn't expect to get away with it.

Using shade + rush is not an exploit. Can't believe how disingenuous people are being. The reason someone would rush into shade is to get the hell out before the ball group kills them immediately after. Both the set and the skill are working exactly as they should.

Rush can pull players through corners including pillars, trees, tower corners regardless of any interaction with shade. If you are pulling players into a locked keep with a combination of rush + shade then yes, but as far as I’m aware that’s not possible.

that being said, rush of agony itself is a stupid set and should be nerfed. But you can't blame players for using it.

Exploiters used rush of agony to pull players and shade to get back into spawn followed by pulled player who gets killed by environmental dmg which is definitely an exploit. They exploit a killzone intended to kill spawncampers entering spawn to protect spawning players by pulling in players that did not want/try to enter spawn to autokill them and steal their tel var. Imagine abducting people to fine them for burglary.
The exploiters pulled everyone coming near base claiming the pulled players were spawncampers outside base when most were just passing.

Iriidius · February 17

LadyGP wrote: »

show previous quotes

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

But rush of agony isn't an issue, especially when played by solo players, who wants to fight against groups.

No it is not hard to kill solos using RoA, all they can do is clown unaware targets, they have zero chance of using it to punch above their weight class in an actual engagement. It is nonetheless still extremely unfun to suddenly be yanked across the battlefield because some rando far behind you off screen was wearing a set. Often through terrain.

Yes it is a problem that Rush of Agony automates the strat of ball groups. The sweatiest tryhard groups are automating their strat with a brainless proc set. Look around you, where did all the zergs go? They all quit in no small thanks to this guar turd of a set turning a hard matchup into unfun unfair cheese. It's not just "the performance" it's also this.

I haven't said anything about killing players using RoA. RoA was introduced to counter groups (it's sadly abused by ball groups), so it's actually a nice opportunity to fight many players alone. Or how are you going to fight groups when being alone?
Setting up your dueling build and fighting them 1 by 1, while all others are watching?

The problem is any set that is "designed to counter ball groups" will work for us because we will just use it for clumps of people that, position wise, act as a ball group.

Without dramatically making a change to skills (like the upcoming test) I fail to see an instance where a set will counter a ball group.

Yes... there was Azureblight which.... opened a whole new set of worms and IMO wasn't working as intended (the scaling of it didn't align with the tooltip and could be easily exploited which is what made it "work" on ball groups) - but that is a whole different conversation and controversy lol.

The narrative that every set "designed to counter ball groups" is more effektively used by ballgroups is false and used by ballgroups to demotivate players from asking for such sets and ZoS from implementing them. Most of these sets were not intended to kill ballgroups but to kill „zergs“ called „large groups“ by ZoS even when not grouped in group tool.

KiltMaster · February 18

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Just hold block.

literally that's all you gotta do lmao

xylena_lazarow · February 18

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Setting up your dueling build and fighting them 1 by 1, while all others are watching?

Have you ever actually tried to X? Yeah you do often pick them off 1 by 1, and you can do things like adapt a DK dueling build to incorporate an AoE strat like Thrive in Chaos + Talons for breaking down groups, while still winning most 1v1s. Nobody was ever winning outnumbered fights against equal or better skilled opponents in the first place. However, you might still be able to clown them unaware if you had an overpowered proc that automates the hardest part...

RealLoveBVB · February 18

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

show previous quotes

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Setting up your dueling build and fighting them 1 by 1, while all others are watching?

Have you ever actually tried to X? Yeah you do often pick them off 1 by 1, and you can do things like adapt a DK dueling build to incorporate an AoE strat like Thrive in Chaos + Talons for breaking down groups, while still winning most 1v1s. Nobody was ever winning outnumbered fights against equal or better skilled opponents in the first place. However, you might still be able to clown them unaware if you had an overpowered proc that automates the hardest part...

Here is a prime example why RoA is a good set against groups (its still the old version without the delay):

https://youtu.be/zz-HMjs4_ao?si=D-I_WvG9UmjnyEQ0

If that wouldn't exist, you wouldn't be able to fight such outnumbered fights.

Alchimiste1 · February 18

.

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

show previous quotes

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Setting up your dueling build and fighting them 1 by 1, while all others are watching?

Have you ever actually tried to X? Yeah you do often pick them off 1 by 1, and you can do things like adapt a DK dueling build to incorporate an AoE strat like Thrive in Chaos + Talons for breaking down groups, while still winning most 1v1s. Nobody was ever winning outnumbered fights against equal or better skilled opponents in the first place. However, you might still be able to clown them unaware if you had an overpowered proc that automates the hardest part...

Here is a prime example why RoA is a good set against groups (its still the old version without the delay): https://youtu.be/zz-HMjs4_ao?si=D-I_WvG9UmjnyEQ0

If that wouldn't exist, you wouldn't be able to fight such outnumbered fights.

2 things

1) that is a group of players not a ball group which is what people have a problem with.
2) they were already so neatly stacked; you could have killed them with any other set and VD which is how people use to bomb in the past.

Edit: upon further look I actually don't even think you proc'd rush of agony lol. your tether stunned them before the ROA

RealLoveBVB · February 18

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

.
show previous quotes

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Setting up your dueling build and fighting them 1 by 1, while all others are watching?

Have you ever actually tried to X? Yeah you do often pick them off 1 by 1, and you can do things like adapt a DK dueling build to incorporate an AoE strat like Thrive in Chaos + Talons for breaking down groups, while still winning most 1v1s. Nobody was ever winning outnumbered fights against equal or better skilled opponents in the first place. However, you might still be able to clown them unaware if you had an overpowered proc that automates the hardest part...

Here is a prime example why RoA is a good set against groups (its still the old version without the delay): https://youtu.be/zz-HMjs4_ao?si=D-I_WvG9UmjnyEQ0

If that wouldn't exist, you wouldn't be able to fight such outnumbered fights.

2 things

1) that is a group of players not a ball group which is what people have a problem with.
2) they were already so neatly stacked; you could have killed them with any other set and VD which is how people use to bomb in the past.

Edit: upon further look I actually don't even think you proc'd rush of agony lol. your tether stunned them before the ROA

1) why exactly should there be a ball group? Players here were complaining about ball groups, which are using RoA, where I fully agree. This topic was never about to kill ball groups.

2) +your edit: as mentioned above, it was still the old RoA with an instant pull. RoA procced, as soon as I jumped on them.

A deto bomber would have killed some on the flag too, but then I hadn't a chance to refrag or continue the fight, as deto bombers have only this single burst. Plus the chance of dying is incredibly higher.

I just wanted to show, how RoA is intended to use. Not "abused" by ball groups or dragging players through walls and doors.

ZOS_GinaBruno · February 18

Orbital78 wrote: »

With Whitestrakes coming up I thought it would be nice to have some clarification, as to not risk being banned. This set is being commonly used in Cyrodiil to pull in odd ways, and I haven't seen an official response from ZoS. Is this a feature and acceptable use of the set, or does this enter the realm of exploiting and potential banning?

The use as being discussed in this thread will not get you banned. That said, we are taking a look at this set for some potential changes in the future.

Destai · February 18

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

show previous quotes

Orbital78 wrote: »

With Whitestrakes coming up I thought it would be nice to have some clarification, as to not risk being banned. This set is being commonly used in Cyrodiil to pull in odd ways, and I haven't seen an official response from ZoS. Is this a feature and acceptable use of the set, or does this enter the realm of exploiting and potential banning?

The use as being discussed in this thread will not get you banned. That said, we are taking a look at this set for some potential changes in the future.

So, I know this set's quite controversial in PVP, but as a PVE player, I love having this as a tank. If anything, make the pull dependent on Major Slayer or something unique to PVE. This is definitely a case where PVP and PVE balancing need to be separated.

JaxontheUnfortunate · February 18

Destai wrote: »

show previous quotes

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

With Whitestrakes coming up I thought it would be nice to have some clarification, as to not risk being banned. This set is being commonly used in Cyrodiil to pull in odd ways, and I haven't seen an official response from ZoS. Is this a feature and acceptable use of the set, or does this enter the realm of exploiting and potential banning?

The use as being discussed in this thread will not get you banned. That said, we are taking a look at this set for some potential changes in the future.

So, I know this set's quite controversial in PVP, but as a PVE player, I love having this as a tank. If anything, make the pull dependent on Major Slayer or something unique to PVE. This is definitely a case where PVP and PVE balancing need to be separated.

I agree as a werewolf tank it is really the only reliable way to do a group pull.

ShawnF · February 18

Destai wrote: »

This is definitely a case where PVP and PVE balancing need to be separated.

I'll second that, please do not nerf this thing into PvE uselessness. The point of a playing a game is having fun, and this set is a ton of fun in PvE. I'm not misusing it to crush leaderboards (i.e. plaguebreak) I'm just running through dungeons with friends laughing at the piles of adds we leave behind. If all those adds were players they might be rightfully cranky, but they're not, so please keep that in mind when adjusting.

xylena_lazarow · February 18

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

If that wouldn't exist, you wouldn't be able to fight such outnumbered fights.

That's not a "group" those are unaware disorganized zergers, and they all rezzed each other as soon as you were forced to take cover. You can see EP still holding the flag near the end, so while it may be fun to clown on opponents like that, there was no impact on the final result, the big disorganized zerg still wins against even a skilled RoA user.

JaxontheUnfortunate wrote: »

I agree as a werewolf tank it is really the only reliable way to do a group pull.

As the #1 Rushing Agony hater, I strongly support the "monsters only" path going forward. The mechanic already exists and this would be a perfect application of it, making both PvE and PvP happy.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · February 18

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

As the #1 Rushing Agony hater, I strongly support the "monsters only" path going forward. The mechanic already exists and this would be a perfect application of it, making both PvE and PvP happy.

This would kill the set in PVP, they just need to make the pull effect give CC immunity in PVP and add an aoe indicator around the player.

decairn · February 18

I got a suggestion. Disable all multi-person pull sets and abilities or put a 4 second telegraph or something in there. Make it take effort to for offense to get enemy grouped up.

Turtle_Bot · February 18

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

show previous quotes

Orbital78 wrote: »

With Whitestrakes coming up I thought it would be nice to have some clarification, as to not risk being banned. This set is being commonly used in Cyrodiil to pull in odd ways, and I haven't seen an official response from ZoS. Is this a feature and acceptable use of the set, or does this enter the realm of exploiting and potential banning?

The use as being discussed in this thread will not get you banned. That said, we are taking a look at this set for some potential changes in the future.

Thanks for the comment, hopefully some of the ideas put forward in this thread (and other threads on this set), can be considered when discussing changes for the set, such as:
- a "monsters only" tag, or
- grant CC immunity and have an obvious (and unique) indicator around the wearer of the proc set when it procs

For PvE purposes the set is fine, it's just the few things (bugs/potential exploits, the sets lack of respecting game rules/designs surrounding player agency, crowd control and the lack of very obvious indicators when such a strong set procs) which is where this set is causing big issues and creating a very toxic environment in PvP.

xylena_lazarow · February 18

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

This would kill the set in PVP, they just need to make the pull effect give CC immunity in PVP and add an aoe indicator around the player.

Still prefer to kill it in PvP altogether, but following normal cc rules with a sufficiently long and obvious telegraph would also be fine by me. I'm happy to hear from Gina that the devs are considering changing the set.

WillhelmBlack · February 18

Asking on the forums if its ok to use a set that's in the game. Holy moly 2025.

I can truly understand why though, this set is absolutely game breaking. It's turned a complex, combat focused MMO into dribble.