PTS Update 45 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

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ZOS_Kevin
ZOS_Kevin
Community Manager
This is the official feedback thread for any combat or class changes coming in Update 45. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance and changes.
Edited by ZOS_Kevin on January 13, 2025 6:31PM
Community Manager for ZeniMax Online Studio and Elder Scrolls OnlineDev Tracker | Service Alerts | ESO Twitter
Staff Post
  • VixxVexx
    VixxVexx
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    Feedback on what exactly? Nothing changed.
  • AvidNecro
    AvidNecro
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    I bit disappointing that necromancer didn’t receive ANY buffs for the upcoming “vengeance” cyro experience. It will NOT be viable without its skills current buffs compared the the damage output every other class can do. Makes no sense.
    Necromancer Main [XboxNA] Follow me on YT and Twitch
  • MincMincMinc
    MincMincMinc
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    AvidNecro wrote: »
    I bit disappointing that necromancer didn’t receive ANY buffs for the upcoming “vengeance” cyro experience. It will NOT be viable without its skills current buffs compared the the damage output every other class can do. Makes no sense.

    Please go reread or watch the vod..... no buffs or changes will matter in the test campaign.
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    4 month wait for this? Really?

    .. not even because it's been 3-4 years of nothing of actual substance. Class identity and balance should be priority 1, with sets as number 2, both of which feel so bland right now. 500+ sets with a handful that are actually useful. Most class set's aren't used, not even in niche scenario's.

    When are you going to address hybridization you left incomplete from 2021. How long do stam sorc's need to rely on spell crit potions for? You said you'd combine spell/weapon DMG/Crit like penetration/armor. You said you left class minor group buffs the same to retain group comp identity when it's by far the worst it's ever been. You said to creators last year that you planned to redesign/rebalance consumables like food/potions.

    Why is the most important aspect of your game, combat, put on the backburner over and over again?
    PC Beta - 2200+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • xylena_lazarow
    xylena_lazarow
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    Rushing Agony still needs to be deleted from PvP. This set brings nothing positive to the game. Mega tryhard organized groups should not be automating their strats, being yanked across the field is worse than a hard stun, being pulled into a stun makes you want to log out and uninstall.
    PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || RIP ground oils
  • Mizael
    Mizael
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    Relequeen change is bad, it makes it less aviable in pve than it already was. Please revert it, just change the max stam line with weapon dmg to make max mag specs happy.
  • Tannus15
    Tannus15
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    Genuinely curious here. You know that's a nerf to Relequen right? Like, it's objectively worse now, even on a mag build
  • Jierdanit
    Jierdanit
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    Tannus15 wrote: »
    Genuinely curious here. You know that's a nerf to Relequen right? Like, it's objectively worse now, even on a mag build

    Its a buff for PvP. Where it was already too strong. ZOS again impressively bad at balancing.
    PC/EU, StamSorc Main
  • Stx
    Stx
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    Err, wait. What combat and class changes? The bug fixes?
  • Decimus
    Decimus
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    Why exactly was Relequen, one of (if not the most) disgusting 1v1/Xv1 sets buffed by providing it with far better 2-4p lines?

    Meanwhile Way of Fire, which does half of its damage in a 1v1/Xv1, receives a nerf for being "too oppressive" in PvP???


    Please look into Relequen 5p line as well, perhaps add an "against monsters" modifier like on so many other sets... as it stands, you've just buffed it in every PvP scenario with the 2-4p changes and enabled its use with sets like Draugrkin without losing any value due to mixing/matching stamina and magicka lines.
    PC/EU @ DECMVS
  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
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    I would write something about changes, but I am more curious about this new "vengeance” Cyro gameplay mode... and that is not on PTS :neutral:

    Anyway, some Buffs for Werewolf would be nice. They are universally considered worst spec/class in the game.

    Last patch they received this weird & convoluted unique "Terrified" buff that does nothing and nerfs other skill if you pick wrong morph, so it effectively takes away from you morph choice...

    Ferocious Roar Has increased Heavy attack speed... but only from 2nd attack, the 1st is still regular, slow & has long charge time...

    I mean... Werewolf is just handicap / extra difficulty mode at this point... :confused:

    Also... NB's Consuming Darkness & morphs should also be buffed in some way. It is universally considered as the worst ultimate in the game... so much so that even Sorc mains often agree with this...
    Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on January 13, 2025 10:38PM
  • IncultaWolf
    IncultaWolf
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    Werewolf needs a lot of help still
  • Erickson9610
    Erickson9610
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    I got excited when I read that Stealth/Crouch was receiving some changes, but then I didn't see anything regarding Werewolf being given the ability to sneak. Maybe that'll be considered in a future update? Regardless, I'm glad that Stealth/Crouch was touched on this update.
    PC/NA — Lone Werewolf, the Templar Khajiit Werewolf

    Werewolf Should be Allowed to Sneak
    Please give us Werewolf Skill Styles (for customizing our fur color), Grimoires/Scribing skills (to fill in the holes in our builds), and Companions (to transform with).
  • ZhuJiuyin
    ZhuJiuyin
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    Unleashed Ritualist needs a buff, otherwise it still doesn't provide reasonable value.

    Most pets-sorcs have 25-30% pet-based damage, so if you factor in Unleashed Ritualist's current 5 sets bonus, which is 16% pet damage, that actually only increases pets-sorcs by 4-5% (30* 1.16=34.8, an increase of about 4.8%), while other sets, such as Pillar of Nirn and Aegis Caller, provide about 6-7% AOE damage.

    I think it would be reasonable to increase the Unleashed Ritualist's 5 bonus to 20% or 22% (30 x 1.22 = 36.6, giving about 6% damage, in line with sets like Nirn)
    "是燭九陰,是燭龍。"──by "The Classic of Mountains and Seas "English is not my first language,If something is ambiguous, rude due to context and translation issues, etc., please remind me, thanks.
  • Rkindaleft
    Rkindaleft
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    Honestly would be happy if you just reverted the Relequen change. Or just added "to monsters" like you did to other sets if it was such a huge issue in PvP.

    I don't really see the point of changing a nearly 7 year old set. You nerfed it for PvE when it hasn't been used that much (most of the encounters from the last few trials are very cleave damage heavy and Arcanists can't even use it, plus the pen line is almost useless) and made it stronger in PvP where it was already good in 1v1s.

    Edited by Rkindaleft on January 14, 2025 9:47PM
    https://youtube.com/@rkindaleft PlayStation NA. I upload parses and trial POVs sometimes.
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    Tick Tock Tormentor | Immortal Redeemer | Gryphon Heart | Godslayer | Dawnbringer | Planesbreaker | The Unshattered
  • rlindsey912nub18_ESO
    Like seriously can you guys rework nb costuming darkness it’s so bad make it like wardens where it moves with you like reduce the cost it’s like 200 ult like really tho
    Edited by rlindsey912nub18_ESO on January 14, 2025 3:39AM
  • YORKSHIRE76
    YORKSHIRE76
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    Please dont change relequen of if you do change the perfected version from stamina to something else so magicka builds can take more advantage from it.
    According to a youtube video posted by arzyel gaming its losing 2k dps on the trial dummy. May not sound too much but for those of us who struggle with dps it is.
    It's been fine for the last several years, why change it now?
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    we need changes in the first place in order to test them.
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • xylena_lazarow
    xylena_lazarow
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    Jierdanit wrote: »
    Its a buff for PvP. Where it was already too strong. ZOS again impressively bad at balancing.
    Yeah I'm really confused what made them nerf mid-tier Way of Fire on behalf of PvP, while buffing Relequen, which is effectively a stronger version of the same thing, especially on ranged builds, the absolute last thing in PvP that needs a buff. And still ignoring Rushing Agony, the most unfun and badly designed gear set in video game history.
    PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || RIP ground oils
  • sans-culottes
    sans-culottes
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    ZOS_Kevin wrote: »
    This is the official feedback thread for any combat or class changes coming in Update 45. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance and changes.

    @ZOS_Kevin, Sacrificial Bones/Grave Lord’s Sacrifice is still a mess. Are the devs happy with its performance? There haven’t been meaningful changes to this skill, yet you’d mentioned the devs would be watching it closely. Anecdotal evidence suggests GLS is far less popular than Blighted Blastbones, in no small part due to the DPS loss/added complexity GLS introduces. Do you have any news on this mediocre skill?
  • PrinceShroob
    PrinceShroob
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    I'd like to second concerns about changing Arms of Relequen. Critical Chance is a very useful bonus in PvE content while Offensive Penetration is not.

    From the patch notes, it sounds like this was an attempt to buff the set, but it's only nerfing the set in PvE content while simultaneously buffing it in PvP, where it was already problematic (it's also a bit odd to buff the set for PvP when it has Minor Slayer, which doesn't do anything in PvP). I'd either leave the set alone or, possibly, leave the change from Maximum Stamina to Weapon and Spell Damage.

    The current changes seem like they're trying to remove Critical Chance from the set because its proc can't crit, but the set is (in theory) a PvE set where Critical Chance matters. It's also one of few sets useful to non-Arcanists in a meta where Arcanists are edging out other classes, so I'm leery of seeing it nerfed.
  • MincMincMinc
    MincMincMinc
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    ZOS_Kevin wrote: »
    This is the official feedback thread for any combat or class changes coming in Update 45. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance and changes.
    VixxVexx wrote: »
    Feedback on what exactly? Nothing changed.

    More or less I think the combat team needs to address clarity of combat and counterplay when discussing any set, effect, skill. Somehow the non important skills and proc effects have become more flashy than EXTREMELY important effects like CC mechanics or burst skills/ultimates.

    Examples being
    • Rush of agony - players for a year now have been complaining how this fails on every design front. The CC is not tied to any animation or counterable action to stop it. There is no clear telegraph once it hits you, ideally you would see a chain animation that you could block or counter to avoid being pulled. Once pulled CC immunity isnt being applied even though you were hard cc'd. Then to top it off after blatantly breaking all of those game rules the set also does an aoe proc damage that is equivalent to a strong skill and is not tied to the gcd system which can hit with other skills.
    • Offbalance - This is not explained really anywhere and changed 20x since it was reworked. It can apply on targets and the animation is practically invisible. Then ANY enemy that does a "medium" attack which can be invisible when animation canceled will make the target slump over without any clear animation hitting them. The fun part is how offbalance then has its own invisible cooldown so who knows when it can be used again on any given target.
    • Dizzy swing snare - Tied to an invisible offbalance cooldown this seemingly applies randomly to the target. Being so rare to happen as dizzy is only used for 1-2s of burst, the target has no idea why they were snared.
    • Warden charm - another example of next to no animation which bypasses counterplay mechanics and makes your character unresponsive without any particular sign something happened.
    • Immovable poisons - for nearly half a decade these have existed doing a random root on enemies with no animation. People end up feeling like the game is unresponsive.
    • Dragon leap - abides by old gap closer rules, holding a player still ignoring all immunity.

    I can keep going, hopefully you guys get the point. Please prioritize combat clarity so players know what has happened, what is happening, and what will happen. You need to really pump the brakes on the animation team who affect anything combat related.

    Do I need to see the arcanist shooting giant hentai tentacle spammables that take up 50% of my screen.....no
    Do I need to see the warden running at me with acuity northern spamming charm while doing 15k ticks of my 35k hp....yes
  • CameraBeardThePirate
    CameraBeardThePirate
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    It'll be a year when this patch releases with Grave Lord's Sacrifice, and it's still a very unfun, mediocre skill.

    Take this one back to the drawing board.
  • sans-culottes
    sans-culottes
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    It'll be a year when this patch releases with Grave Lord's Sacrifice, and it's still a very unfun, mediocre skill.

    Take this one back to the drawing board.

    Isn’t it still labeled “Stalking Blastbones”? Or did they finally correct that much?
  • CameraBeardThePirate
    CameraBeardThePirate
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    rrbreezy wrote: »

    Isn’t it still labeled “Stalking Blastbones”? Or did they finally correct that much?

    Still labeled incorrectly last I checked
  • Tinkerhorn
    Tinkerhorn
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    It'll be a year when this patch releases with Grave Lord's Sacrifice, and it's still a very unfun, mediocre skill.

    Take this one back to the drawing board.

    Just return Stalking. Should never have got rid of it and after a year of GLS with nothing done to it down to the damn label, and its popularity & usage in the tank what is stopping the reversal of this mistake? They deleted the most popular and powerful necro skill for this!
    Yes it's still a sore point.
  • xStaticx
    xStaticx
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    So is Off Balance damage being nerfed with the new combat calculations? I don't have access to the PTS so I can't check myself but I read it that way.
  • XimTheBard
    XimTheBard
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    Chiming in here to say that the changes to Relequin are not great for a pve standpoint. I too would have a strong preference for keeping the relequin set as it is. Or at very least instead of a line of penetration, change that to a second line of flat weapon and spell damage. Penetration line is not all that useful for pvp, though.. relequin is also used in pvp and I suppose it would have some use there. But a weapon and spell damage line would work for both pvp and pve.
    Khajiit Roleplayer, Pve Warden main, Housing enthusiast, and architecture nerd.
    Akir'i'ko Tz'jana - 7'7 Skyrim Raised Cathay-raht main
    I love foxes!
  • MincMincMinc
    MincMincMinc
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    xStaticx wrote: »
    So is Off Balance damage being nerfed with the new combat calculations? I don't have access to the PTS so I can't check myself but I read it that way.

    Not really in any noticeable way
    XimTheBard wrote: »
    Chiming in here to say that the changes to Relequin are not great for a pve standpoint. I too would have a strong preference for keeping the relequin set as it is. Or at very least instead of a line of penetration, change that to a second line of flat weapon and spell damage. Penetration line is not all that useful for pvp, though.. relequin is also used in pvp and I suppose it would have some use there. But a weapon and spell damage line would work for both pvp and pve.

    For pvp builds pen/armor is the best 2-4 piece bonus you can get. If you test putting on one line of max stam vs one line of wd vs one line of pen

    The one line of WD will give nearly 50% more damage than the line of stam
    The one line of pen will give nearly 90% more damage than the line of stam (basically 2x stats damage wise)
  • React
    React
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    Way of fire change looks great. We definitely should not be encouraging free "fire and forget" damage that repetitively procs with little to no input whatsoever from the user. With the long duration dots we have now as well as the buffed status effects, sets that proc in this manner can be very oppressive, and far too rewarding for how little input they require.

    With the developer comment in mind, I would ask that you consider applying the same exact change to similar sets. Tarnished nightmare comes to mind as a big one, but I'm sure there are many others.
    Edited by React on January 14, 2025 9:44PM
    @ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
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