PTS Update 45 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

Maintenance for the week of February 17:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – February 17
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – February 19, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – February 19, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – February 19, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – February 19, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/673215
We will be performing maintenance on the PTS on Wednesday at 4:00AM EDT (9:00 UTC).
  • Deimus
    Deimus
    ✭✭✭✭
    Thought they'd have a renewed drive to meet player expectations from all the threads in 2024 or the paid streamer suggestions, but oh well. No reason to touch Cyrodiil outside of the Vengeance test until U46 now. RoA sill obnoxious, heal and shield stacking still allowing godmode, ward and streak sorc perfectly bAlAnCeD, ball groups bringing down performance on every fight no notes.

    Can't even express my feelings over no changes to GLS this patch such disappointment and frustration. 1 year anniversary of the death of Stalking Blastbones and no respects paid.

    At least we got the Green tree to become mostly passives that's a positive combat change for U45 so good job to whoever listened to that feedback and got it approved.
  • Rkindaleft
    Rkindaleft
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Relequen change is just random and hasn’t been thought through correctly. I understand the reasoning behind wanting the set to make more sense thematically, but it doesn’t work in practice and in PvE it’s a straight nerf:

    1) Penetration addition is largely worthless because nobody in any organised raid group needs any more penetration, so it’s now a bonus that does almost nothing. Crit chance is also an important thing and stat wise for PvE suited the set better even though the proc can’t crit.
    2) Meta is still very Arcanist focused and they can’t even use the set properly.
    3) The set wasn’t even used that much due to the current meta but also because the last few trials in particular are very cleave damage focused which Relequen doesn’t excel in anyway. It’s also almost 7 years old so doing a soft rework of the set just feels weird.

    In PvP it’s a straight buff because it now gives weapon and spell damage instead of critical chance and you gave it penetration too. The set was already strong there and a buff doesn’t make sense.
    Edited by Rkindaleft on January 17, 2025 10:10AM
    https://youtube.com/@rkindaleft PlayStation NA. I upload parses and trial POVs sometimes.
    Spoiler
    Have cleared all trial hard modes.
    6/9 trial trifectas.
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    That this biggest topic of conversation is a 7 year old PvE set in what's supposed to be an ESO update is in-itself very telling about the current state of ESO and it's future direction.

    That would be my feedback.
  • silky_soft
    silky_soft
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Would of liked to see consuming darkness (nb shadow ulti) get something useful. I haven't used that ulti since the relaunch.

    Could be awesome if it had 9k healing absorption debuff for 4s with the synergy activation.
    Streak moves you faster then speed cap.
    Dragon Leap and Fossilise CC happens at the start of the activation not at the contact point.
    Battlespirit 8m range buff to 28m skills needs to be removed.
    My heavy attacks still don't work and I still get stuck in ambush.
  • Solariken
    Solariken
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Please consider reducing the critical resist on Rallying Cry.

    I like stat sets but this one causes too many stalemates.
  • xylena_lazarow
    xylena_lazarow
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    React wrote: »
    We definitely should not be encouraging free "fire and forget"
    Then you gotta delete hots too.
    PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || RIP ground oils
  • Aldoss
    Aldoss
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't think I've ever seen a PTS week 1 this devoid of balance adjustment attempts since I started playing in 2019. Combat balance is also in an awful state.

    Really disappointing.
  • C_Inside
    C_Inside
    ✭✭✭✭
    Wow, I almost forgot it's been 1 year since ZOS shamelessly killed Necro's highest damage skill for no other reason than to make the small handful of people that wanted Necro to play like DK happy.

    @ZOS_Kevin So what's happening with the GLS balancing you promised? Remember? In the last PTS week of that patch you explicitly promised that you'd be monitoring this skill and making adjustments over time if need be? Or is the combat team happy with GLS being a dead morph that no one has ever, should ever, or will ever use?
  • Jierdanit
    Jierdanit
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    React wrote: »
    Way of fire change looks great. We definitely should not be encouraging free "fire and forget" damage that repetitively procs with little to no input whatsoever from the user. With the long duration dots we have now as well as the buffed status effects, sets that proc in this manner can be very oppressive, and far too rewarding for how little input they require.

    With the developer comment in mind, I would ask that you consider applying the same exact change to similar sets. Tarnished nightmare comes to mind as a big one, but I'm sure there are many others.

    Yes they made the set completely useless what a great change.

    Way of Fire was already in no way op, now its completely unusable on literally any build.
    PC/EU, StamSorc Main
  • the1andonlyskwex
    the1andonlyskwex
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Jierdanit wrote: »

    Yes they made the set completely useless what a great change.

    Way of Fire was already in no way op, now its completely unusable on literally any build.

    This has been the case for a while, but it feels like the balance team is reacting now to (obsolete) player feedback from 2 years ago. They desperately need to operate at a faster pace, with balance updates that are both more timely and more frequent.
    Edited by the1andonlyskwex on January 15, 2025 11:30AM
  • Major_Mangle
    Major_Mangle
    ✭✭✭✭
    Jierdanit wrote: »

    Yes they made the set completely useless what a great change.

    Way of Fire was already in no way op, now its completely unusable on literally any build.

    Somewhat agree with this, don't think WoF will be useless but by no means was it that overtuned in the current meta.

    Majority of "un-balanced" sets these days are unironically not the free damage procs sets (with very few exceptions) but rather stat enhancing sets in combination with scribing, which in my opinion is the worst powercreep addition the game has ever seen.

    Agree on what React said on status effects however, their damage needs to be significantly reduced or removed completely (but instead make status effects maybe cause you to take more dmg from fire, poison etc etc).

    Edit (unrelated to the quoted comment):
    Without trying to sound bitter, not sure why people even bother to give feedback anymore. ZOS showed last PTS cycle that no matter what kind of feedback that was given that they won't go back or change things that are commonly asked about (like the azureblight changes in PvP).This time around there are literally 0 class-/combat balance changes so there are even less reasons to give any feedback this time around.
    Edited by Major_Mangle on January 15, 2025 11:56AM
    Ps4 EU 2016-2020
    PC/EU: 2020 -
  • Overamera
    Overamera
    ✭✭✭✭
    So many PvP players have been complaining about Relequen being overpowered these last years which it is and yet it gets buffed. Even on this thread there are already multiple comments about this. This proves yet again ZOS don't listen to players/feedback. So disappointing. I'm done giving feedback.
  • NikoSquared
    NikoSquared
    ✭✭
    Not specifically combat related, but the Storm Lords should return as one of the teams in Battlegrounds!

    It would be nice if the game would randomly pick 2 out of the 3 teams each match so all the teams can stay used
  • xylena_lazarow
    xylena_lazarow
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Overamera wrote: »
    So many PvP players have been complaining about Relequen being overpowered these last years which it is and yet it gets buffed.
    Even weirder that they nerfed Way of Fire instead. Not even meta. Weaker than Relequen at the same function.
    PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || RIP ground oils
  • MincMincMinc
    MincMincMinc
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Solariken wrote: »
    Please consider reducing the critical resist on Rallying Cry.

    I like stat sets but this one causes too many stalemates.

    The set is literally worth two sets in one that can apply to 12x people........ how did they think this was ok. The scaling concept is a good step to limit group sets like this, but it doesnt drop off quick enough IMO. How taxing is that calculation on the server unnecessarily, IDK?

    Probably a perfect example as to why ball groups lag the server. Normal players who just have clever alch trigger 1 event every 45s vs a ball group player having rally triggering 100 events every 15s per group set they run.

    I just remember a time when zos actually benefited the solo players over group comps. Sets like old Warrior's fury that excelled when solo and outnumbered, but was non functional in group combat. Fighting 5 players is supposed to be difficult...... but fighting 5 players effectively wearing 10x sets worth of stats is just not possible.
  • ssewallb14_ESO
    ssewallb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Relequen:

    So penetration is a much stronger stat in PvP than crit. This is mainly because crit resistance exists, and also because players can't efficiently and reliably be armor stripped to 0, in the same way a PvE enemy can.

    Conversely, penetration is a weak stat in group PvE because of how easy it is to strip a target's armor to effective 0. You just need Breach, Crusher, and Alkosh, that's it, and there are numerous other ways of doing it. Crit is very strong in PvE due to the amount of crit damage buffs in the game.

    The end result here is this is a buff for the set in PvP, and a nerf in group PvE.

    Though I'd imagine usage stats for Relequen are pretty high, this is mostly due to the accessibility of the set (comes from an easy/fast trial, doesn't require optimal group or player to use efficiently) and not how optimal it is. Relequen hasn't been optimal in a long time, as such nerfing it pushes an already sub-optimal set even further down the chain.

    In PvP, Relequen is largely considered a cheese set for dueling or just targeting outnumbered solo players, as such a buff is totally unwarranted.

    I would suggest simply reverting the change, and generally keeping endgame focused PvE DPS sets centered around crit chance and weapon/spell damage.
  • autocookies
    autocookies
    ✭✭✭
    deleted
    Edited by autocookies on January 25, 2025 2:17AM
  • IncultaWolf
    IncultaWolf
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Grave Lord's Sacrifice needs to buff class heals as well to make it worth using over blighted blastbones
  • sans-culottes
    sans-culottes
    ✭✭✭✭
    Grave Lord's Sacrifice needs to buff class heals as well to make it worth using over blighted blastbones

    GLS is dead and should’ve been buried a year ago. What a shame.
  • ZDunlain
    ZDunlain
    ✭✭✭
    Please the changes on Relequen only buff it more in PvP commonly used by stamsorcs and that gameplay is by far more oppressive than Way of Fire and not to mention how broken are Sorcs and Nb in PvP so you are buffing Sorcs even more.

    Even from a PvE point of view it is a not needed change of a set from many years ago that works well and even it is not needed in arcanist (the still op class in PvE SINCE they were added).

    Please change the meta a bit at least in class changes.
    Only Templar PvP player
  • YandereGirlfriend
    YandereGirlfriend
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    silky_soft wrote: »
    Would of liked to see consuming darkness (nb shadow ulti) get something useful. I haven't used that ulti since the relaunch.

    Could be awesome if it had 9k healing absorption debuff for 4s with the synergy activation.

    So much this.

    That ultimate needs something, ANYTHING. It is the worst ult in the game by like an enormously large margin.

    No idea how it has skated under the radar for help for so long.
  • Durham
    Durham
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is my feedback

    Look at the most abused set currently in the RUSH OF AGONY!!!!!!
    and combo it with:
    Vicious Death has more killing blows than any player! PROCS WHY ARE THESE A THING!

    After I have been pulled 12+ meters and put next to a 20k health player... No counter! Please don't say block last night I was pull through a door, and latency/lag makes this set broken!


    Way of Fire omg this has been a thing forever! It's been a thing for 2 years+ this is not new! Look at some of your newer game-breaking sets... If every group is using it, it might be OP!
    PVP DEADWAIT
    PVP The Unguildables
  • Aldoss
    Aldoss
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm going to push back on the WoF nerf to say that I agree with @React in that we should be applauding the removal of afk damage. Dots last 20 seconds now and some last longer. Hit someone with entropy and WoF ticks 12x.

    I also think WoF has a unique place in the set world against something like Rele. Rele has a ramp up effect. It starts small and gets stronger as you continue to focus a target. WoF stays the same from the first light attack and switching a target doesn't require you to build to stacks up. The damage is just there.

    Both require you to actively be engaged in combat and I appreciate that change.
  • React
    React
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jierdanit wrote: »

    Yes they made the set completely useless what a great change.

    Way of Fire was already in no way op, now its completely unusable on literally any build.

    I'm sorry, but that simply isn't true. I've used the set for years on a full damage build with no weapon dots to proc it, only proccing it with light attacks. I often see hits as high as 5k on my nightblade - it's a great pressure set even after this change.

    "I equipped this 5 piece set so now you take 2-3k damage from me every 2 seconds because I put a dot on you" is just bad, lazy gameplay. At least with it proccing on weaves, you'll actually need to be consistent with your input to achieve the maximum damage potential the set offers.
    Then you gotta delete hots too.

    Some hots need to be nerfed, sure. Especially in regards to cross heals. But there are a few more things on the "free damage" side that need to be adjusted in tandem with adjustments to hots, if that is the route they choose to pursue. Applying the same logic used to justify this WOF change to other proc sets that operate in a similar manner seems like a good start, and/or reducing/removing the damage status effects deal in favor of giving them more potent debuffs like @Major_Mangle suggested.

    Everyone complains about the "tank/heal" meta, which in general is valid. But I would argue that the prevalence of "free" proc style damage only exacerbates the issue by forcing people to take damage which they feel can only be countered by becoming tankier themselves - because that is the reality of dot/proc/status damage. There is no counterplay to it other than simply becoming tankier or raising your heals, unlike things like direct damage which can be avoided via block/dodge, etc.
    @ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
    React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
    Content
    Spoiler
    Twitch.tv/reactfaster
    Youtube.com/@ReactFaster
  • xylena_lazarow
    xylena_lazarow
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    React wrote: »
    Everyone complains about the "tank/heal" meta, which in general is valid. But I would argue that the prevalence of "free" proc style damage only exacerbates the issue
    Hey if you wanna also eliminate all the free heals, free shields, free defensive buffs... then we'll have an ESO that plays more like Smash than an ARPG, but maybe that would be cool? It would be a much different game, that's for sure. Procs and passive effects have been baked into the game since its inception.
    PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || RIP ground oils
  • SkaraMinoc
    SkaraMinoc
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    React wrote: »
    (way of fire) it's a great pressure set even after this change.

    I agree here. Relequen + Way of Fire are my sets for ranged damage in Cyrodiil. Relequen gets a significant buff in U45 because the 2-4pc bonuses are now wd/sd + pen. I need to light attack for Relequen so the Way of Fire "nerf" doesn't impact me at all. So this build on Stam Sorc is a net positive.
    PC NA
  • YandereGirlfriend
    YandereGirlfriend
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Then you gotta delete hots too.

    DOTs should definitely be reverted back to 10-seconds base. It remains a mystery as to why they were randomly doubled.

    If you simply approach a keep that is defended you instantly get about 1000 seconds worth of single-target sticky DOTs appended to you. Each one with its own % chance to proc a status effect, Scribing debuff that must be tracked, etc. SO many AFK ticks multiplied by basically every player in Cyrodiil.
  • MincMincMinc
    MincMincMinc
    ✭✭✭✭✭

    DOTs should definitely be reverted back to 10-seconds base. It remains a mystery as to why they were randomly doubled.

    If you simply approach a keep that is defended you instantly get about 1000 seconds worth of single-target sticky DOTs appended to you. Each one with its own % chance to proc a status effect, Scribing debuff that must be tracked, etc. SO many AFK ticks multiplied by basically every player in Cyrodiil.

    Agreed, and they should not be stackable. So many unnecessary calcs linger in combat now adays because of goofy pve changes from half a decade ago.

    Hots, dots, damage and healing procs should not be stackable. No reason I should be hit by 5 tarnished nightmares in a row. Many proc metas were ended by zos caving and finally adding a cooldown on the target. If a player wants to run a proc to bypass the gcd system and get free damage, the risk should be that someone else may have already run that proc. The same is already in the game for buffs and debuffs..... why should proc sets be treated differently?
  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭

    Agreed, and they should not be stackable. So many unnecessary calcs linger in combat now adays because of goofy pve changes from half a decade ago.

    Hots, dots, damage and healing procs should not be stackable. No reason I should be hit by 5 tarnished nightmares in a row. Many proc metas were ended by zos caving and finally adding a cooldown on the target. If a player wants to run a proc to bypass the gcd system and get free damage, the risk should be that someone else may have already run that proc. The same is already in the game for buffs and debuffs..... why should proc sets be treated differently?

    some procs do have a per target cooldown, others have a global cooldown

    one of the reasons why snake in the stars got nerfed to oblivion is because it has both a global cooldown and a per target cooldown, effectively giving it a full on maximum uptime of only about 25% (4 sec duration 12 sec cooldown), regardless how many sources are running this

    plaguebreak also has a per target cooldown, you can only be affected by that once every 10 sec regardless how many people are running it

    so procs do have non-stackability in some cases, but its basically on a proc-to-proc basis

    if its a normal (global) proc cooldown, thats a cooldown on the caster allowing the target to get hit by multiple copies of the proc

    if its a per target cooldown, thats a cooldown on the target which prevents proc stacking

    other procs are even weirder if they apply "stacks" (kjalnar, azureblight) which the stacks are shared by all wearers of the set (most of these also have per target cooldowns too to prevent stack gains)
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014

    i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them

    feel free to stop by and use the facilities
  • Arcanasx
    Arcanasx
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    It seems like the Way of Fire change is mostly for "appeasement" considering the incredible lack of much needed PvP balance changes needed in general.

    Anyways, while I don't mind them toning down sets proccing off of "fire and forget skills", it would be far more reasonable to change the proc condition to "When dealing direct damage with a weapon" instead. There's no good reason why someone using their actual spammable weapon ability should suddenly not work to proc Way of Fire anymore after nearly 10 years of it working this way...

    While we're at it, they should also extend these changes of toning down "fire and forget" proc activation to other sets as well, such as sheer venom (deal direct execute damage), and tarnished (deal direct critical damage). At least be consistent...
    Edited by Arcanasx on January 15, 2025 10:38PM
Sign In or Register to comment.