ZOS & My Mental Health

sarahthes

AzuraFan wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

If you're going to make 80,000 achievements in the game, then at least give us clearly-separate categories and keep it clean.
....
Player counts are at historic lows, and, frankly, I think these sorts of issues are part of the problem. I've been on the fence about this game for awhile because of precisely this sort of antagonism towards those of us who play the game this way. This thread is another notch towards just moving on myself.

Yep. I've posted before about how group achievements are mixed in with solo ones. How PvE achievements are mixed in with stuff you have to do in Cyrodiil. Etc. It's all over the place in this game. I'm tired of the constant "trying to get players to do what they don't enjoy" in an apparently "play as you want" game.

I think this game is one of the worst a completionist can play unless you're a player that enjoys every activity and tons of busywork. Otherwise there's no way you'll complete everything.

It's amazing how much the OP has already accomplished. OP, try another game and get back to having FUN.

It is possible to complete all achievements. I know one person who is only missing Unstoppable (that's the newest trial trifecta) and 2 achievements that are releasing with upcoming holiday events.

peacenote

First, I want to say that I am very empathetic to your plight. I also know that it is very frustrating when something you enjoy gets changed in a way so you can not enjoy it as much or at all... regardless of whether the reason is because of a medical condition or a preference. I think you explained things very well. I think it's always a good idea to raise things to game developers so they can be more inclusive, if possible.

Second, I just want to say that you are not alone. There are players who struggle with this game because they are sensitive to light flashes. There are players who struggle with this game because of repetitive stress syndrome. And so on. I think, given where you're at, this just might be helpful to know and feel less alone.

Last, I will just say that I don't think this promotion is the best way to encourage players to try and play multiple characters. Just as you aren't enjoying what feels forced to you, (some) people who play multiple characters also do not enjoy being forced to have character progress be rolled up into account progress. For those with multiple characters, I feel like we are getting a bit of whiplash with strategic direction. First our character specific achievements are deleted, which had correct dates for when each one hit level 50, and then new achievements roll out that incorrectly log achievement date for leveling a class (because they were already leveled in the past), and now people who moved to one character only because the multiple character play style was decimated are being presented with a reward they can't obtain unless they again make multiple characters on their account! At best, these decisions are being made without anyone understanding the disconnect and horrible client experience.

Ishtarknows

MJallday wrote: »

I don't know anyone that's got every single achievement in this game. Certainly no one on Xbox EU - not even top tier players. Ac

At least two players had the maximum number of achievement points on Xbox EU in the summer past. One has since left the game, and the other will probably have the rest now as well since the most recent additions don't include anything like a trifecta.

spartaxoxo

Honestly, I think hiding achievements that require multiple characters or the crown store to achieve is totally reasonable. Or just let us hide any achievements we want to hide.

I mean, as a long time player, I actually wish that I could hide collectibles that I do have. Some of them I bought when there was nothing better available at the time and now I have to scroll past them to get to new things. I've been playing for the entirety of console's existence. That's almost 10 years. I don't want to scroll through 10 years worth of loot all the time.

A change to automatically hide things we can't obtain without a crown store purchase or at the current number of characters seems reasonable. And they should push that even further and just let us mark as hidden any other achievements that we want, with the option to unhide them too. Kind of like how we can hide all ingredients not relevant to our quests at the alchemy station.

Bammlschwamml

About 10 years ago i had to stop playing WoW because i played for 20 hours a day and lost almost everything in my life. Well to be honest, my wrist stopped me, because it hurt too much to play. I still can't use a computer mouse for more than 10 minutes, because my hand will just stop working.

I was too competitive to play WoW on a controller, so i started playing ESO on console instead. It felt like a "light" version of WoW. At the beginning it seemed perfect to feed my addiction. I played way too much. Until i reached endgame. I was a very competitive player in WoW, i loved hardmode raids (=trials) and pvp. I just wanted to be one of the best players and didn't care about quests, achievements, fashion or anything else at all. But in ESO it was impossible for me to do that. Technically impossible. Because of all the performance issues and bugs. It does something to your brain when you always disconnect, or run into game breaking bugs, seconds before you can get your high. And the neglect of really competitive content by the devs helped too. Broken leaderboards in pve and pvp, completely worthless battlegrounds (at least for me), broken emperor in a completely broken Cyrodiil, and many other issues... not even a dps/heal meter on console... I was already invested and saw the potential, and just couldn't let go of ESO. I didn't want to start a new game because all the problems seemed like they were easy to fix. So i just waited for them to fix it. It wasn't too much to ask, right? Just take it a little less serious for a while and wait for one more update and everything will be fine... So i waited and i waited... For many painful years...

Long story short, ESO cured me of my addiction. I am not 100% sure how it worked, but it did. And while i still think it's a shame what's going on with this game, i am thankful at the same time.

Tl;dr: I have absolutely no idea how OCD works, but maybe instead of listening to your request, they could just do the opposite and put even more stuff like this collectible in the game. Until it gets so ridiculous that you just don't want to do it anymore (or even better can’t technically do it, even if you really really wanted to) and end up "cured" like me? Or at least completely indifferent/apathetic and don't want to play any video games at all anymore.

Marronsuisse

Would deleting a character be okay for your OCD? It's very easy and quick to level a new character during New Life. It usually takes me a couple days at dolmens. Then delete them afterward so you don't have an "incomplete" character hanging around.

Maybe ZOS will listen to you, but it's likely they won't, so I hope you can find a solution that you can accomplish on your own. I have OCD as well so I sympathize. Best of luck to you.

Bammlschwamml wrote: »

Tl;dr: I have absolutely no idea how OCD works, but maybe instead of listening to your request, they could just do the opposite and put even more stuff like this collectible in the game. Until it gets so ridiculous that you just don't want to do it anymore (or even better can’t technically do it, even if you really really wanted to) and end up "cured" like me? Or at least completely indifferent/apathetic and don't want to play any video games at all anymore.

ERP is actually one of the most effective ways to treat OCD. Exposure and Response Prevention therapy, aka exposure therapy. (As opposed to.... the other kind of ERP. ) It's very difficult though if your OCD is real bad.

dk_dunkirk

sarahthes wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

If you're going to make 80,000 achievements in the game, then at least give us clearly-separate categories and keep it clean.
....
Player counts are at historic lows, and, frankly, I think these sorts of issues are part of the problem. I've been on the fence about this game for awhile because of precisely this sort of antagonism towards those of us who play the game this way. This thread is another notch towards just moving on myself.

Yep. I've posted before about how group achievements are mixed in with solo ones. How PvE achievements are mixed in with stuff you have to do in Cyrodiil. Etc. It's all over the place in this game. I'm tired of the constant "trying to get players to do what they don't enjoy" in an apparently "play as you want" game.

I think this game is one of the worst a completionist can play unless you're a player that enjoys every activity and tons of busywork. Otherwise there's no way you'll complete everything.

It's amazing how much the OP has already accomplished. OP, try another game and get back to having FUN.

It is possible to complete all achievements. I know one person who is only missing Unstoppable (that's the newest trial trifecta) and 2 achievements that are releasing with upcoming holiday events.

What's your point? For literally all but a couple dozen people, who 1) apparently have more than 24 hours a day to play the game, and 2) have GOD-TIER skill at PvE AND PvP, this is an impossibility. I mean, we all get how exceedingly rare this is, right?

If they would re-categorize the list into distinct aspects of the game, and stop mixing things around and hiding pieces of achievements behind other activities, you could at least take delight in completing your chosen activities. As it is, doing the achievements is like slapping yourself in the face. I work on it, but I'm stupid, and a glutton for punishment.

Jordan.nick11b14_ESO

Honestly, if you're mental health is that fragile you shouldn't play games like this. There will be no concessions made to help you and I think you're intelligent enough to realize that, but because you're feeling so unhappy not being able to complete things you feel compelled to complete, it's probably best you didn't subject yourself to such stress and move on to games you can have more control over. I honestly didn't even really know an achievement system was there b/c I don't give 2 cents about what I've collected or not. It's all make-believe to me.

Caligamy_ESO

How is this any different from the listed achievements that have been there since the beginning of the game (more or less) to level all classes to 50?

AzuraFan

sarahthes wrote: »

It is possible to complete all achievements. I know one person who is only missing Unstoppable (that's the newest trial trifecta) and 2 achievements that are releasing with upcoming holiday events.

I didn't say it's impossible to complete all the achievements. I said, "I think this game is one of the worst a completionist can play unless you're a player that enjoys every activity and tons of busywork."

The UNLESS part acknowledges that it's possible. I've seen two players post over the years with screenshots that show 100% achievements completed. Of course, then a new chapter comes out and there are more.

danko355

I have a different type of OCD and it’s much worse, in my opinion. Just like you I’m a completionist and want to have one main character having all the collectibles, all the achievements, done all the quests, etc. Which is fine, I really enjoy doing the different aspects of the game (except the card game, but I pretend it doesn’t exist, so far it works). But here comes the worst part : I can’t decide which class to main. It drives me crazy, I have been switching and trying to decide for 2 years now. I have deleted probably more than 30 characters so far, some of them having things like full motifs learned, having high Alliance rank, etc. I just play the game, then I see something that makes me feel another class would suit better. Then I play another character, but I need to have the “perfect” version of it - all skills learned, motifs, receipts, etc. After some time I go back to the previous character. Then the urge comes to decide once and for all and I think if I delete other characters and leave only one, I will just stick to it. I do this, play the character for some days, then nostalgia and the feel of loss kicks in, I regret and either try to restore the character through the support - they have helped me countless times, I love these guys so much! Or if they can’t help anymore, I just level up and do all the activities again. Right now I’m in the cycle again, not knowing which is my main and having 4 potential candidates - sorcerer, nightblade, dk and necromancer. I’m having the thoughts again to just delete 3 of them and leave ones, because it’s very exhausting to constantly switch, delay the decision, delay the learning of new receipts, because I don’t know which of the characters will be the one to have all of them, etc. And I also know that deleting probably won’t work, because it never did - I tried flipping coins, being rational and choosing considering all the up and down sides of different classes , etc. - this leads to nothing.

Anyway, I can totally feel your pain, TS. If it’s important for you that the achievement has the name of your one only character, I have a plan for you: dedicate one whole day for this. Have someone to support you with a fast way of leveling, for example BRP runs , you can go 1-50 in 1.5-2 hours with training gear and 150% exp scroll. Then rename your main character to something else. Create a new character with a new class and your main’s name. Level to 50 quickly, then delete him. Repeat 2 times (you can’t delete more than 3 characters per day). Next day repeat again, in the end you have the achievements done on all the classes with the same character name. In the end, delete all of them, and return your main’s name.
One advice : don’t give up and stick to your main. You are lucky you have him and don’t have the urge to decide, or to do everything on multiple characters. I wish I could do the same!

LalMirchi

Let's have respect for the original but I have severe doubts about this part of the OP

So, what it boils down to is this - To get the Alliance achievements I have to pay money becasue of my mental health, to get the new skill styles I have to pay money because of my mental health, and to get the Class levelling achievements I have to hope that one day soon ZOS introduce Class change tokens and then pay money because of my mental health.

Are these achievements not earnarable in-game?

spartaxoxo

LalMirchi wrote: »

Let's have respect for the original but I have severe doubts about this part of the OP

So, what it boils down to is this - To get the Alliance achievements I have to pay money becasue of my mental health, to get the new skill styles I have to pay money because of my mental health, and to get the Class levelling achievements I have to hope that one day soon ZOS introduce Class change tokens and then pay money because of my mental health.

Are these achievements not earnarable in-game?

OP already broke down the issue with making a new character. And none of those are able to be completed with only one character.

PrincessOfThieves

Gabriel_H wrote: »

That is a massive undertaking, that I would have to do 5 times, and it would still cause my OCD to nag at me, because the achievement would have a different character name on it, and would literally drive me crazy.

There is actually an addon for this -here. And it might be possible to create a custom addon that could hide certain achievements/collectibles. I wouldn't mind that too, actually, the event fragments menu shows me stuff that I already have and it's super annoying.
And what if you level that hypothetical temporary character through grinding instead of doing it normally? You could hire someone to boost you in BRP, it would take about 2 hours during which you could watch a movie or something (BRP boosting requires very minimal involvement). Then you could claim your stuff and delete the char.
Or you could contact the support and explain your situation, maybe they could allow you to get the styles without leveling an alt. Make sure to reply to their first mail, though, they often send you an automated reply at first.

AngryPenguin

I don't officially have OCD, but tend that way, so I was actually thankful to see today's golden pursuit. This is an easy opportunity to break that FOMO OCD that I also have with ESO. I'm not going to do this golden pursuit to completion, and I don't regret it a bit. It feels liberating to not care if I get these tasks done or not for a change.

Muizer

@OP, out of curiosity, is your OCD triggered by the interface of the game? Like seeing placeholders or unchecked boxes? Would not seeing those things in the interface help, or is it the knowledge that there are things you have not completed in itself make you anxious? And if you did not see those things, would the game still be worth playing or is it actually about the satisfaction that collecting everything gives you?

skellyink

I don't have any suggestions, @Gabriel_H, just want to add my voice in support of accessibility in games.

Arunei

My mom has OCD, so I know how bad it can be, and how anxious her triggers can make her.

With that said...I don't think quitting something that's becoming more detrimental to your wellbeing than helpful is a "massive overreaction".

By all means make suggestions for accessibility! ZOS has made changes to the game/UI in the past because of these suggestions. But there's also every chance that some changes, regardless of how simple to us they might seem, will ever be implemented. That doesn't mean never make suggestions because there's a chance they won't be used, it means make suggestions but keep in mind they may not be.

I know that the investment made into the game is what makes quitting seem like a massive overreaction, but again, it's clear that this trend is making things worse for you than better. At some point you're going to have to make a decision; even if they do implement a suggestion that would help with your issue, it might not happen for months or years. Do you continue to play a game that's worsening your mental health, or do you step away from it?

Also keep in mind you don't need to entirely quit. Taking a break, be it for a week or a month or however long, is an option as well. Perhaps playing other games would help? Something like Minecraft might work; you could collect every block/item in the game as a goal, for example. Heck, you could even do it twice; once to have each item physically (whether in Chests or displayed) and then again to put items that can be put into Item Frames...well, in Item Frames.

katanagirl1

I haven’t been diagnosed with OCD but I am certain I have it to no small degree. For instance, if you look in my pantry you will see all the boxes are arranged so the nutrition labels face out so you can read them. No, I am not joking. When I leave the house I have to check all of the doors to make sure they are locked. Sometimes more than once. Things like that. I probably should do something about it, but it is kinda helpful in a way and is part of who I am. I won’t say you should do a thing or not, but I can mention some things that I do to help. Everyone is different though so what works for me might not work for others.

The game has AWA now, called Account Wide Achievements, which can help to some degree knowing that once one character gets an achievement that the others cannot earn it. So, you are free to not worry about doing it on another character then. Unfortunately Mages Guild books are per character so it wouldn’t help there. There are a lot of things that it might help, though.

This actually helps me get more achievements done because I can create alts that specialize in one area like PvP so I don’t have to try to do them on my PvE toons. I have played this game long enough to tire of the grind to do things on multiple toons so it has burned any desire to do them more than once.

I had lower expectations going into this game than you did, though. My plan was just to do all of the single players stuff I could, but actually ended up doing much more. I don’t know what else I can say, but if you want to bounce ideas off me I would be happy to be able to help.

Wiseau

As others have said, and I mean this in the best way possible, just stop playing. Games are meant to be played for fun and enjoyment, not as a chore and something to trigger your illness. Get off the game, go outside, or find a new game. One that isn't an MMO and constantly updating new cosmetics/collectibles, especially locked behind a paywall. Sorry, it just doesn't seem worth it for you to continue torturing yourself. They won't change the game for a select few people, just how it is.

Zodiarkslayer

Bammlschwamml wrote: »

About 10 years ago i had to stop playing WoW because i played for 20 hours a day and lost almost everything in my life. Well to be honest, my wrist stopped me, because it hurt too much to play. I still can't use a computer mouse for more than 10 minutes, because my hand will just stop working.

I was too competitive to play WoW on a controller, so i started playing ESO on console instead. It felt like a "light" version of WoW. At the beginning it seemed perfect to feed my addiction. I played way too much. Until i reached endgame. I was a very competitive player in WoW, i loved hardmode raids (=trials) and pvp. I just wanted to be one of the best players and didn't care about quests, achievements, fashion or anything else at all. But in ESO it was impossible for me to do that. Technically impossible. Because of all the performance issues and bugs. It does something to your brain when you always disconnect, or run into game breaking bugs, seconds before you can get your high. And the neglect of really competitive content by the devs helped too. Broken leaderboards in pve and pvp, completely worthless battlegrounds (at least for me), broken emperor in a completely broken Cyrodiil, and many other issues... not even a dps/heal meter on console... I was already invested and saw the potential, and just couldn't let go of ESO. I didn't want to start a new game because all the problems seemed like they were easy to fix. So i just waited for them to fix it. It wasn't too much to ask, right? Just take it a little less serious for a while and wait for one more update and everything will be fine... So i waited and i waited... For many painful years...

Long story short, ESO cured me of my addiction. I am not 100% sure how it worked, but it did. And while i still think it's a shame what's going on with this game, i am thankful at the same time.

Tl;dr: I have absolutely no idea how OCD works, but maybe instead of listening to your request, they could just do the opposite and put even more stuff like this collectible in the game. Until it gets so ridiculous that you just don't want to do it anymore (or even better can’t technically do it, even if you really really wanted to) and end up "cured" like me? Or at least completely indifferent/apathetic and don't want to play any video games at all anymore.

Thats Inversion Therapy. And it works ... sometimes.

MJallday

Ishtarknows wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

I don't know anyone that's got every single achievement in this game. Certainly no one on Xbox EU - not even top tier players. Ac

At least two players had the maximum number of achievement points on Xbox EU in the summer past. One has since left the game, and the other will probably have the rest now as well since the most recent additions don't include anything like a trifecta.

I have no idea who that would be. A lot of people who run the top tier content are missing several.

What they should do is a "top 1000" table for achievements - that would be neat!

dk_dunkirk

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/17fd2zc/i_finally_completed_100_achievements_59465_points/

18,000 hours

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/645479/i-have-finished-the-game#latest

24,000 hours

This is what it took as of a year ago, and there have been a LOT of new achievements added over the last year.

I consider myself a pretty heavy player. I have a wife, kids, and a full-time job. In 2.5 years of playing time (with a "retirement" in the middle), I've logged about 4,600 hours. I have between 2/3rd's and 3/4th's of the achievement points. Maybe in another 10-15 years, maybe I can get all the achievements as of a year ago. Except that getting many of them are only possible with god-like skill, and I'm just never going to be that good. So it's an impossibility.

If ZOS would re-categorize the achievements and give vet dungeons and vet trials their own categories, keep PVP and TOT and IA separate in their own categories, and so on, you could pick and choose much more easily what you wanted to pursue, if that's how you like to play the game.

The last time I said this here, people reacted like I was killing a sacred animal. I'm just talking about reorganizing! Sheesh. This kind of change would go a long way to addressing what the OP was saying.

As I write this, I'm talking myself into retiring again. :-/

Thrasher91604

The achievements have been totally made up by the devs. Who are they to control your life? Play and do what you.want that’s fun for you. Dustbin the bogus “achievements”.

Icy_Waffles

Without judgment or thinking I have the answer (with no experience of this) I would SUGGEST one of two paths.

1. Maybe a break, with some clear boundaries if you are able so you can safely play.

2. I hate to lose anyone in this community, but your personal health comes first (physical mental etc.) and it MAY be that this type of game with endless collecting, achievements etc as a model, might not be the best choice for you.

I hope you are able to find a solution, and have good support systems as well for you!

Mavloc

Gabriel_H wrote: »

I would not be able to just level that character, I would have to find all the lorebooks, do all the quests, explore all of the map, run all of the dungeons and trials, etc etc. That is a massive undertaking, that I would have to do 5 times, and it would still cause my OCD to nag at me, because the achievement would have a different character name on it, and would literally drive me crazy.

This is the crux of your issue. And why it isn't an issue.
It's going to take time. If you don't want to take the time, it's going to cost money.
That has been consistent throughout ESO's history.

If your issue is the name that pops up when you highlight over the achievement (you will have to verify this)
But I believe if you delete the character, it will show you have the achievement unlocked but it will not show anything when you hover over it.

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all,

After removing some posts, we would like to remind all members of the community to please keep the Community Rules in mind when commenting.

Regards,
-Greg-

Carcamongus

I dread to imagine what was written in the posts that was so bad the mods had to show up twice...

I too have to deal with OCD, though I'm fortunate it doesn't manifest itself a lot in this game. Sadly, I couldn't come up with an idea that'd allow the OP to have his peace in time to get the skill styles pack. Allowing us to toggle unobtained items and achievements, just as we can hide the offline people in the friends list, could work but such a change won't come quickly enough and I doubt ZOS would want to implement it.

The closest I can think that might count as an idea is try customer service, but that's a very long shot. On the other hand, many past freebies eventually returned as paid items, so perhaps the expectation these skill styles might return for crowns would work?

Best of luck to you, OP.

Necrotech_Master

LalMirchi wrote: »

Let's have respect for the original but I have severe doubts about this part of the OP

So, what it boils down to is this - To get the Alliance achievements I have to pay money becasue of my mental health, to get the new skill styles I have to pay money because of my mental health, and to get the Class levelling achievements I have to hope that one day soon ZOS introduce Class change tokens and then pay money because of my mental health.

Are these achievements not earnarable in-game?

a character can be only 1 alliance, so having achievements for each alliance requires one of 2 options:

1. multiple characters
2. pay for alliance change tokens

all of my characters are AD for example, i have no way to earn the DC and EP achievements unless i fork up for an alliance change token, or in my case fork up for an extra character slot (as im not deleting any of my characters lol)

i figure an alliance change token would be the easiest since the character is already established

LuC1ll3atTh3Wh33L

Gabriel_H wrote: »

...to put it simply, I am compelled to have to do certain tasks - not doing them causes me massive levels of anxiety and depression... In a nutshell, if there is an achievement in the Journal, or a collectible showing in Collectibles, then I have to get them.

i am the same. i want these things. i have fomo. zos's changes have provided me an opportunity to just say no.
so i gotta say thanks to whomever is making these decisions. i'm saving money and creating new, better neural pathways.
it feels good to not chase that dragon.

p.s.
speaking of chasing dragons....i got the gp mount within the first 24 hours.fomo.