I hope we get a high elf female as a companion soon

Syldras

Wolfkeks wrote: »

And his mushroom hatred 🍄

Depends on how often you collect mushrooms Other than that, he doesn't mention it.

But it's actually another good example for something that is certainly one aspect of the character but isn't used to label him: He's hypersensitive when it comes to smells (and I think he's also a bit phobic of dirt). This is the reason he hates mushrooms and coffee. He states that it's the smell. And that's okay, it's nothing he has chosen. ZOS could have made a big thing out of it ("Azandar is our first sensory hypersensitive companion!"), but they did not. I'm glad they treated it normally.

Syldras

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Maybe we'll get another High Elf in a year or two for those people who wanted a different kind of Altmer?

Another Altmer next year would mean that another person waiting for either Nord, Orc or Bosmer has to wait one year more at least. Or even longer, if they double more races. Sometimes I think we'll probably never get a Bosmer.

Erickson9610

Syldras wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Maybe we'll get another High Elf in a year or two for those people who wanted a different kind of Altmer?

Another Altmer next year would mean that another person waiting for either Nord, Orc or Bosmer has to wait one year more at least. Or even longer, if they double more races. Sometimes I think we'll probably never get a Bosmer.

We'll likely get another repeated race in 2 years, assuming we only get new races next year. Or, ZOS could do 1 new race and 1 repeated race for the next 3 years, before focusing on revisiting races from then on. ZOS has also expressed interest in doing something off the beaten path, like making a Dremora Companion, so maybe we'll get some interesting racial passives for future Companions.

I suppose we'll just have to wait and see? Judging by the existing Companions, I wouldn't expect any clichés like a stealthy, bow-bearing Bosmer — but I'm sure whatever characters ZOS ends up making will be interesting enough.

StarOfElyon

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I think it would be worthwhile to revisit some races for Companions. I'm looking forward to meeting Tanlorin, but other people wanted a different archetype for a High Elf character.

That's fine — I tolerated Ember, and I'm thrilled we get to meet another Khajiit character who hopefully fits my playstyles better than Ember does. Maybe we'll get another High Elf in a year or two for those people who wanted a different kind of Altmer?

That's the hope. It's just that I'm kind of getting tired of saying "maybe next year" with this game. I've been counting my years lately and considering if there are better ways to spend them.

Syldras

Back to the topic of subtlety: I said yesterday or the day before that I hope that ZOS remains natural and subtle with their LGBT+ characters, just as they did in the base game, or also with Isobel, which I liked very much. I added that I don't want to see some horrible gay cliché come up for a companion, like a gay male Bosmer hairdresser with rainbow-colored clothes and a lisp (or whatever stereotypical appearance - you get the idea). Just a normal person who happens to be gay. No cliché, no token. That part with the rainbow-colored clothing I said half-jokingly.

Now I realize that Tanlorin's appearance is completely designed in the colors of the nonbinary flag?! (Yeah, sorry if I'm late maybe, but I never cared for identity flags - I don't have to, just because I'm gay). The flag consists of black, white, purple and yellow. Tanlorin's armour is black and silver, then there's purple in hair and face markings, and of course, there's the typical gold-ish Altmer skin. When it comes to country flags at least, white is usually called "silver" and yellow "gold". It's basically the same colors. This is certainly no coincidence.

Make of that what you will.

thejadefalcon

SilverBride wrote: »

Why do the Companions have to have a set gender identity and why do I need to be informed of it? All I want from a Companion is for them to do a good job fighting by my side.

Because that's how writing a character works. Gender identity and personality, it turns out, forms a core part of who someone is. Being a cis male, a trans woman or an assigned male at birth nonbinary person, all of these things affect your life experience and character and how people interact with you. The same goes for a person's species. Being a Nord, or being raised in Argonian society but actually being Dunmer, affects who you are as a person. Without that, you don't have a character, you have a meatsack with a knife.

SilverBride wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

It's baffling ZOS didn't release a male elf so far, as I'm quite sure it's a popular wish (I hope for the same, I wouldn't even care whether it's a Dunmer, Altmer or Bosmer - if it's a sophisticated one, not a rag-clad savage).

That would be my dream come true. If I could have a Companion like Count Verandis Ravenwatch I'd never need another. (I'm a sucker for long haired men.)

We've specifically asked for something like this but keep getting the exact opposite. Why?

You need to pick a lane. You either want a faceless generic blob with a sword or you want a specific gender and racial identity and to be informed of it so you can have your Verandis husbando.

SilverBride

thejadefalcon wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Why do the Companions have to have a set gender identity and why do I need to be informed of it? All I want from a Companion is for them to do a good job fighting by my side.

Because that's how writing a character works. Gender identity and personality, it turns out, forms a core part of who someone is. Being a cis male, a trans woman or an assigned male at birth nonbinary person, all of these things affect your life experience and character and how people interact with you. The same goes for a person's species. Being a Nord, or being raised in Argonian society but actually being Dunmer, affects who you are as a person. Without that, you don't have a character, you have a meatsack with a knife.

SilverBride wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

It's baffling ZOS didn't release a male elf so far, as I'm quite sure it's a popular wish (I hope for the same, I wouldn't even care whether it's a Dunmer, Altmer or Bosmer - if it's a sophisticated one, not a rag-clad savage).

That would be my dream come true. If I could have a Companion like Count Verandis Ravenwatch I'd never need another. (I'm a sucker for long haired men.)

We've specifically asked for something like this but keep getting the exact opposite. Why?

You need to pick a lane. You either want a faceless generic blob with a sword or you want a specific gender and racial identity and to be informed of it so you can have your Verandis husbando.

There is a difference in wanting a set physical appearance that I am drawn to and wanting their gender determined by ZoS, especially one that is controversial. I want to determine those things for myself as I interact with them in the manner of my choosing.

thejadefalcon

SilverBride wrote: »

There is a difference in wanting a set physical appearance that I am drawn to and wanting their gender determined by ZoS, especially one that is controversial. I want to determine those things for myself as I interact with them in the manner of my choosing.

You don't own the character. Just like in real life, their gender is not up for debate. You do not get to "determine" anything for yourself but how you react to it, which, right now in this and other threads, is shockingly poor. You can discover someone's gender identity, but it is not your decision in either the real world or when it's someone else's character.

SilverBride

Roleplaying allows us to "pretend" however we wish. If I want to "pretend" that Count Verandis is my character's life partner that is my decision.

spartaxoxo

Syldras wrote: »

Make of that what you will.

Soul Magic is purple. Tanlorin has a unique relationship to soul magic. Something happened to them that we have to figure out. Declaring silver basically white and counting their skin color to force this flag comparison is really stretching things.

Syldras

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Declaring silver basically white

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tincture_(heraldry)#List
It's the same in vexillography, the designing of flags.

LaintalAy

Syldras wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

need bosmer waifu

Ok, ZOS will deliver:
- old, slightly wrinkly
- grey short hair
- friendly grandma type

Which I would prefer over Eveli as a travel companion anytime. Romance is out of question, though - in both cases.

As requested, Mother Shyppe.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I'm trying to understand her objections to non-binary characters and where she draws the line about gender.

This is a controversy that I don't believe should be introduced into a game.

Non-binary characters have in the Elder Scrolls games for 20 years?

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After removing some unnecessary back and forth from this thread, we would like everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, civil, and constructive.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here

Syldras

Once more about the color choises in Tanlorin's design:

A game character is not a real person, has no sentience and doesn't choose any clothes. So the choice is made by the creators - and these might have something in mind.

Of course I don't know what ZOS had in mind, but I, as someone who paints and draws in his freetime, absolutely choose the colors I use for people (things like haircolor, eyecolor, clothing), exactly the same way I choose colors for everything else - landscape, architecture, furniture, etc. The colors I chose aren't random. One thing I care for is a harmonic color scheme, but sometimes colors also have a symbolic. And yes, that extends to persons or the colors they wear.

P.S.: White is often too obtrusive if the other colors are rather dark; silver or grey make it less noisy.

LaintalAy

SilverBride wrote: »

This is a controversy that I don't believe should be introduced into a game.

It's not a controversy.
It's a reflection of reality.

Please save yourself the time of unlocking this character and just don't use it.
A totally uncontroversial way to deal with the problem, as you see it.

TaSheen

Y'know.... this is NOT the venue for a discussion on this. Yes, ZOS added a "controversial" companion. But it doesn't need to be gone over with this sort of fine-tooth comb, does it?

Some will enjoy the companion; some won't. It's not something worth this kind of fuss and fury over in a game we all supposedly play for fun.... At least, that's my personal take on it.

For what it's worth....

WitchyKiki

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Make of that what you will.

Soul Magic is purple. Tanlorin has a unique relationship to soul magic. Something happened to them that we have to figure out. Declaring silver basically white and counting her skin color to force this flag comparison is really stretching things.

*her* skin color? or their skin color?

lol.... I know this will get deleted too, just thought it was funny.

SilverBride

LaintalAy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

This is a controversy that I don't believe should be introduced into a game.

It's not a controversy.
It's a reflection of reality.

Please save yourself the time of unlocking this character and just don't use it.
A totally uncontroversial way to deal with the problem, as you see it.

It is a controversy because not everyone believes that non-binary is a real gender. And I already decided that I will not use this Companion.

thejadefalcon

TaSheen wrote: »

Y'know.... this is NOT the venue for a discussion on this. Yes, ZOS added a "controversial" companion. But it doesn't need to be gone over with this sort of fine-tooth comb, does it?

Well, no, but the type of person who thinks non-binary people don't exist and are therefore controversial are the type of people to keep bringing it up. Everyone else is just telling them to get over it.

You're right. Normal people don't think this is worth fuss and fury.

TaSheen

thejadefalcon wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Y'know.... this is NOT the venue for a discussion on this. Yes, ZOS added a "controversial" companion. But it doesn't need to be gone over with this sort of fine-tooth comb, does it?

Well, no, but the type of person who thinks non-binary people don't exist and are therefore controversial are the type of people to keep bringing it up. Everyone else is just telling them to get over it.

You're right. Normal people don't think this is worth fuss and fury.

Yeah, I know.... but sometimes I get the urge to try to be the voice of reason. Sadly, it hardly ever works.

spartaxoxo

Syldras wrote: »

Once more about the color choises in Tanlorin's design:

A game character is not a real person, has no sentience and doesn't choose any clothes. So the choice is made by the creators - and these might have something in mind.

Of course I don't know what ZOS had in mind, but I, as someone who paints and draws in his freetime, absolutely choose the colors I use for people (things like haircolor, eyecolor, clothing), exactly the same way I choose colors for everything else - landscape, architecture, furniture, etc. The colors I chose aren't random. One thing I care for is a harmonic color scheme, but sometimes colors also have a symbolic. And yes, that extends to persons or the colors they wear.

P.S.: White is often too obtrusive if the other colors are rather dark; silver or grey make it less noisy.

Obviously. But, when people make homages to flag colors, they tend to actually use that flag's colors. And I've never seen them count skin color in that. It will be in hair, clothes, and makeup.

Tanlorin isn't wearing white nor yellow. They are wearing purple, but Soul Magic is represented using purple and they have stated it's a unique part of Tanlorin's experience. We don't what role soul magic will play, but it's probably significant to influence both their kit and story. And I think this is far more likely why their hair and the tattoo are purple.

WitchyKiki

SilverBride wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

This is a controversy that I don't believe should be introduced into a game.

It's not a controversy.
It's a reflection of reality.

Please save yourself the time of unlocking this character and just don't use it.
A totally uncontroversial way to deal with the problem, as you see it.

It is a controversy because not everyone believes that non-binary is a real gender. And I already decided that I will not use this Companion.

I already explained to spartaxoxo exactly this in a civil neutral manner, as to how some people don't think like he does and theres nothing wrong with that. Hes acting obstuse on purpose, he knows people don't believe it. At this point hes just baiting and trolling.

spartaxoxo

WitchyKiki wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Make of that what you will.

Soul Magic is purple. Tanlorin has a unique relationship to soul magic. Something happened to them that we have to figure out. Declaring silver basically white and counting her skin color to force this flag comparison is really stretching things.

*her* skin color? or their skin color?

lol.... I know this will get deleted too, just thought it was funny.

Fixed it. Ty. I don't know a person who uses they/them pronouns is real life, although my brother does. I helped him write a letter recommendation for them so they could get a better job. I'm not used to using those pronouns and it can be tricky sometimes or I'll forget. But, I'm trying to get better about it.

WitchyKiki

spartaxoxo wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Make of that what you will.

Soul Magic is purple. Tanlorin has a unique relationship to soul magic. Something happened to them that we have to figure out. Declaring silver basically white and counting her skin color to force this flag comparison is really stretching things.

*her* skin color? or their skin color?

lol.... I know this will get deleted too, just thought it was funny.

Fixed it. Ty.

Nothing to fix my dude, we see her as she is lol

WitchyKiki

spartaxoxo wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Make of that what you will.

Soul Magic is purple. Tanlorin has a unique relationship to soul magic. Something happened to them that we have to figure out. Declaring silver basically white and counting her skin color to force this flag comparison is really stretching things.

*her* skin color? or their skin color?

lol.... I know this will get deleted too, just thought it was funny.

Fixed it. Ty. I don't know a person who uses they/them pronouns is real life, although my brother does. I helped him write a letter recommendation for them so they could get a better job. I'm not used to using those pronouns and it can be tricky sometimes or I'll forget. But, I'm trying to get better about it.

they/them pronouns don't even exist in my main language, which is spanish. Theres a vocal militant minority who wants to force us to use these new words they invented in order to change the whole way we speak for a minority that I've never even interacted with outside of the internet. You can see why I don't like it, it doesnt flow in spanish, you can't even spell these words lol.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

This is a controversy that I don't believe should be introduced into a game.

It's not a controversy.
It's a reflection of reality.

Please save yourself the time of unlocking this character and just don't use it.
A totally uncontroversial way to deal with the problem, as you see it.

It is a controversy because not everyone believes that non-binary is a real gender. And I already decided that I will not use this Companion.

One doesn't have to believe the same things as another person to treat them as equal. I am not a Buddhist but Buddhist should be depicted in media and be treated equally to me both legally and socially imo. I don't see what one's beliefs have to do with ZOS being able to include a non-binary character.

They've been doing it for decades. I don't get why one would choose to play an Elder Scrolls game if they had such an issue with it.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings everyone,

As this thread had continued the off-topic, back and forth attacks on each other, after multiple staff messaging, we are now going to close it. We always encourage sharing opinions, but we ask that they remain respectful when doing so.

Thank you for your understanding, and please keep the Community Rules in mind when posting on the forums.