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ZOS please work on the in game economy

  • wolfie1.0.
    wolfie1.0.
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    Aurielle wrote: »
    Fair points, all. The fact remains, however, that the economy in general is finally accessible to a majority of players for the first time in a very long time. I acknowledge that it’s more difficult for you to sell big ticket items now, but understand that asking ZOS to work on the economy because a tiny percentage of players finds it harder now to sell multimillion gold items to an even tinier percentage of players sounds… a little rich to those who were previously priced out of common goods.

    I don't necessarily disagree on the point. And honestly adaptability has always been a key part in eso.

    Though personally some small qol improvements on the selling side of things would have probably taken the sting off of the 14 day limit.

    For example the ability to access you item listings at the guild store via a link that you could advert in Zone Chat, that once sent anyone with access could remote buy it using that link. Once a link is created its valid for 10 minutes and the item is frozen in the guild store until purchased or time limit is up. Cool down of 5 minutes, limit 5 links per account.

    More details would be required but that is an example (maybe not a great one, maybe it is)
  • Aurielle
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    wolfie1.0. wrote: »
    Aurielle wrote: »
    Fair points, all. The fact remains, however, that the economy in general is finally accessible to a majority of players for the first time in a very long time. I acknowledge that it’s more difficult for you to sell big ticket items now, but understand that asking ZOS to work on the economy because a tiny percentage of players finds it harder now to sell multimillion gold items to an even tinier percentage of players sounds… a little rich to those who were previously priced out of common goods.

    I don't necessarily disagree on the point. And honestly adaptability has always been a key part in eso.

    Though personally some small qol improvements on the selling side of things would have probably taken the sting off of the 14 day limit.

    For example the ability to access you item listings at the guild store via a link that you could advert in Zone Chat, that once sent anyone with access could remote buy it using that link. Once a link is created its valid for 10 minutes and the item is frozen in the guild store until purchased or time limit is up. Cool down of 5 minutes, limit 5 links per account.

    More details would be required but that is an example (maybe not a great one, maybe it is)

    That’s an interesting idea that could possibly work. I think the extra parameters (valid for 10 mins, item frozen, 5 min cooldown) would add too much server strain, though — too many additional things to track. Just a simple accessible link to a big ticket guild store item would give more opportunities to sell the item before the 14 day timer expires, especially if the item is listed in a guild store with a less than ideal location. Furthermore, I think that idea would work really well with a dedicated /trade channel. The links would ONLY function in that channel, not /zone (to prevent unnecessary cluttering up of /zone with trading links).
  • robpr
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    The times when Corn Flower sold for 300 gold a piece was considered 'outrageous' and 'overpriced'...
  • katanagirl1
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    Aurielle wrote: »
    Fair points, all. The fact remains, however, that the economy in general is finally accessible to a majority of players for the first time in a very long time. I acknowledge that it’s more difficult for you to sell big ticket items now, but understand that asking ZOS to work on the economy because a tiny percentage of players finds it harder now to sell multimillion gold items to an even tinier percentage of players sounds… a little rich to those who were previously priced out of common goods (pun fully intended).

    On the one hand we have lots of players saying there aren’t enough gold sinks…and then we have this. Which is it? What is preventing certain players from earning gold?
    Khajiit Stamblade main
    Dark Elf Magsorc
    Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
    Orc Stamplar PVP
    Breton Magsorc PVP
    Dark Elf Magden
    Khajiit Stamblade
    Khajiit Stamina Arcanist

    PS5 NA
  • Aurielle
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    Aurielle wrote: »
    Fair points, all. The fact remains, however, that the economy in general is finally accessible to a majority of players for the first time in a very long time. I acknowledge that it’s more difficult for you to sell big ticket items now, but understand that asking ZOS to work on the economy because a tiny percentage of players finds it harder now to sell multimillion gold items to an even tinier percentage of players sounds… a little rich to those who were previously priced out of common goods (pun fully intended).

    On the one hand we have lots of players saying there aren’t enough gold sinks…and then we have this. Which is it? What is preventing certain players from earning gold?

    We have “lots” of players saying there aren’t enough gold sinks? Where?

    Let me do a little search.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/655406/any-plans-to-fix-inflation-in-the-economy-pc-na/p1

    Hmm. Seems like people wanted another gold sink to…address the horrific inflation that was a problem at that time. :) I think you’ll find that players previously advocating for more gold sinks wouldn’t be doing so anymore, as prices are reasonable for a change.
    Edited by Aurielle on August 20, 2024 8:24PM
  • DukeCybran
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    ZOS flirting with the economy is the problem.

    Your mats are estimated to shrink to 1/4 of their price in 2023. Cherish the day when you still keep the 3/4.
  • katanagirl1
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    Aurielle wrote: »
    Aurielle wrote: »
    Fair points, all. The fact remains, however, that the economy in general is finally accessible to a majority of players for the first time in a very long time. I acknowledge that it’s more difficult for you to sell big ticket items now, but understand that asking ZOS to work on the economy because a tiny percentage of players finds it harder now to sell multimillion gold items to an even tinier percentage of players sounds… a little rich to those who were previously priced out of common goods (pun fully intended).

    On the one hand we have lots of players saying there aren’t enough gold sinks…and then we have this. Which is it? What is preventing certain players from earning gold?

    We have “lots” of players saying there aren’t enough gold sinks? Where?

    Let me do a little search.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/655406/any-plans-to-fix-inflation-in-the-economy-pc-na/p1

    Hmm. Seems like people wanted another gold sink to…address the horrific inflation that was a problem at that time. :) I think you’ll find that players previously advocating for more gold sinks wouldn’t be doing so anymore, as prices are reasonable for a change.

    Prices might be “reasonable” if you do not sell anything. Perhaps that is the issue with those like you who think that players were “priced out” of the market before. If you do not sell things to earn gold then you are going to have less to spend on guild trader purchases. The gold that gets handed out for quest rewards and such is a pittance. That’s why players spend their time farming things to sell. You are paying for the convenience of not doing it yourself. If the price goes too low, then no one will be selling and what will you do then?
    Khajiit Stamblade main
    Dark Elf Magsorc
    Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
    Orc Stamplar PVP
    Breton Magsorc PVP
    Dark Elf Magden
    Khajiit Stamblade
    Khajiit Stamina Arcanist

    PS5 NA
  • Pevey
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    Aurielle wrote: »
    Aurielle wrote: »
    Fair points, all. The fact remains, however, that the economy in general is finally accessible to a majority of players for the first time in a very long time. I acknowledge that it’s more difficult for you to sell big ticket items now, but understand that asking ZOS to work on the economy because a tiny percentage of players finds it harder now to sell multimillion gold items to an even tinier percentage of players sounds… a little rich to those who were previously priced out of common goods (pun fully intended).

    On the one hand we have lots of players saying there aren’t enough gold sinks…and then we have this. Which is it? What is preventing certain players from earning gold?

    We have “lots” of players saying there aren’t enough gold sinks? Where?

    Let me do a little search.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/655406/any-plans-to-fix-inflation-in-the-economy-pc-na/p1

    Hmm. Seems like people wanted another gold sink to…address the horrific inflation that was a problem at that time. :) I think you’ll find that players previously advocating for more gold sinks wouldn’t be doing so anymore, as prices are reasonable for a change.

    Prices might be “reasonable” if you do not sell anything. Perhaps that is the issue with those like you who think that players were “priced out” of the market before. If you do not sell things to earn gold then you are going to have less to spend on guild trader purchases. The gold that gets handed out for quest rewards and such is a pittance. That’s why players spend their time farming things to sell. You are paying for the convenience of not doing it yourself. If the price goes too low, then no one will be selling and what will you do then?

    Where do you think the gold comes from that is used to buy things on the guild traders? If long-time players have gold balances that just go up and up and up (we do), that takes gold out of circulation. Guild trader bids take gold out of circulation. Bans on gold seller accounts take gold out of circulation. Scribing vendor purchases take gold out of circulation.
    On the other side, you have people doing these things that give a "pittance" as you say, but that add up over time. Especially with writs. Prices on guild traders cannot get too out of line with gold rewards from in-game activities, or eventually it will be unsustainable.

    Virtually everyone is a crafter in this game. Everyone gets drops they don't need anymore just from playing the game, even if they are not farming. If you are wanting to sell something because you don't need it, there's a good chance other similar players don't need it either.

    The guild trader system is a way to sell what you don't need to other players for whatever they are willing to pay. There is nothing wrong with the economy. Some gold got removed from the game, nothing more. If people start buying gold and using that gold to make guild trader purchases (or to pay for carry runs from people who then use the gold to make guild trader purchases), then prices will go back up again. I'm certainly not hoping for that. Very much the opposite.
  • Heren
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    Prices might be “reasonable” if you do not sell anything. Perhaps that is the issue with those like you who think that players were “priced out” of the market before. If you do not sell things to earn gold then you are going to have less to spend on guild trader purchases. The gold that gets handed out for quest rewards and such is a pittance. That’s why players spend their time farming things to sell. You are paying for the convenience of not doing it yourself. If the price goes too low, then no one will be selling and what will you do then?

    So according to you, people spend their time farming things to sell on the market, because that's the only way to make solid gold income ( as raw generation of gold is a pittance ), and thus the only way to really spend on guild traders market; and doing so, they are paying for the convenience of not doing it ( farming things ) themselves. But wait... wasn't that the start ?

    So we have player farming in order to get the privilege of not farming ! Genius !

    Ok i'm joking, I kinda understand what you mean ( I think ), but please, everyone is so stressed out and saying non-sense upon non-sense in all these threads...

    And then, if people are farming things to basically trade them for other things they don't want to / can't farm ( let's say, a basic mats farmer, a pve farmer and a pvp farmer : basics mats sells things people use in pve and pvp ( potions, etc ), pve sells motifs and rare mats from dungeon and trials to people that don't do them, pvp sells motifs, other rewards and rare mats from pvp activities to people that don't do them ); you have a ( very ) basic economy with goods and money flowing.

    But as Pevey pointed out, gold is generated : you have to do these things that reward such a pittance in order to get things at least started; and since there is golds sinks, you have to do them again to get things going. Because if there is no fresh generation of gold, the global amount will shrink leading to lower prices, and as Pevey said, if more gold become generated or available outside of trading ( big rewards in the calendar maybe, double gold event, these infamous gold sellers ), the global amount of gold will inflate, leading to higher price.

    Every game deal with these problems in their own way, or at least they try to, but these cycles ( inflation, deflation ) are, to some extent, the norme : different events led to this.

    The question is more about the power of the gold rather than the prices : if prices are going down, say almost all prices ( motifs, basic mats, rare mats, luxury goods, and you could even add crowns, PL and other kind of services ), you will sell for less but you will also spend less. Sure it don't feel good having a lesser income, but if your spending are also reduced, nothing really changed.

    The only things that won't changed are hard gold sink : repair costs, some mats I guess, house buying, and such. Things that eat fixed amount of gold. Trading taxes and trader hiring cost are not fix, they depend of the price of the goods you sell and the amount of gold you're willing to spend on bidding for traders ( and the other guilds too ). And I understand that it is not an easy matter, and that accomodation will take time, leaving some guilds bankrupted because it's natural to want to keep investing high amounts of gold in hope of high profits, and sure maybe taking some steps down isn't an option and would only lead to the guild dying. Capitalism's a hard world.

    But to quickly adress your last sentence / question : I don't think prices will get so low that no one will be selling ( eh, again this ghastly threat of 'but in the end there will be no one selling !!!!' ). As prices get lower and lower, people that get low to medium income will be more and more interested ( if the goods have a real demand ), and they will buy them, leading to prices going up again. Maybe a new balance will be find, but there will be a balance between supply, demand and gold available ( roughly ). Maybe there will be less supply as people don't wan't to farm as much for lesser income, but I'm quite sure that there will still be people willing to do so, and sell. Maybe because lesser income also mean lesser prices in general, so you can still buy valuable things with less gold.

    Just like everyone else on these forums, I didn't conduct an extensive survey of the market, but reading comments from people : price of basic mats ( columbine for example, dragon rheum to ) are droping; prices of motifs are droping; so it seems to me that, to a certain extent, there is a new balance forming, not a complete crash of the market with no one selling, and until ( or rather if ) we reach that state, I'm going to continue considering these doom and gloom sayers as rather dramatic people. And if we reach a state of complete crash with no one selling, well, I will have excuses to make for sure !

    Until then, best luck to all traders ! For me, I think i'm going to continue having fun reading these threads.
  • acastanza_ESO
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    The economy was in a bad way when columbine was 5k per. This is a drastic improvement over how it was.
  • sarahthes
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    One thing is for sure, there is significantly less gold in the game, and it is not being redistributed as much as it was before either.

    Removing gold from the game is a good thing, but more movement of the gold that is generated should be encouraged. Gold movement helps the economy.

    Edit: a weekly endeavor to spend 100K at guild traders wouldn't be terrible, or even 50K if 100K is too high.
    Edited by sarahthes on August 21, 2024 8:40PM
  • wolfie1.0.
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    sarahthes wrote: »
    One thing is for sure, there is significantly less gold in the game, and it is not being redistributed as much as it was before either.

    Removing gold from the game is a good thing, but more movement of the gold that is generated should be encouraged. Gold movement helps the economy.

    Edit: a weekly endeavor to spend 100K at guild traders wouldn't be terrible, or even 50K if 100K is too high.

    It's not really that there is less gold in total in the game. It's just that there is less gold in circulation.

    The reason deflationary periods are bad for an economy is because it encourages people with currencies to hoard it and not be willing to part with it due to its high value and in it's worse stages your better off bartering/trading goods and services.

    Ironically enough, in periods of super high inflation currency is devalued to the point that it's near worthless and your better off bartering/trading goods and services.

    There are reasons why a very small amount of constant inflation is preferred irl
  • Pevey
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    wolfie1.0. wrote: »
    sarahthes wrote: »
    One thing is for sure, there is significantly less gold in the game, and it is not being redistributed as much as it was before either.

    Removing gold from the game is a good thing, but more movement of the gold that is generated should be encouraged. Gold movement helps the economy.

    Edit: a weekly endeavor to spend 100K at guild traders wouldn't be terrible, or even 50K if 100K is too high.

    It's not really that there is less gold in total in the game. It's just that there is less gold in circulation.

    The reason deflationary periods are bad for an economy is because it encourages people with currencies to hoard it and not be willing to part with it due to its high value and in it's worse stages your better off bartering/trading goods and services.

    Ironically enough, in periods of super high inflation currency is devalued to the point that it's near worthless and your better off bartering/trading goods and services.

    There are reasons why a very small amount of constant inflation is preferred irl

    There is both less gold and less circulation.

    The reason deflation is so feared in the modern economy is leverage. There is no leverage in ESO.

    The idea of the endeavor is not bad. This is essentially Keynesian. Increase demand by increasing controllable expenditures, usually by increasing government spending since you can't control private spending. There are pros/cons of this approach that you can read about if interested.

    So, far, ZOS has taken the monetary approach. In other words, injecting more gold into the game. The Keynesian approach is argued for when it's felt that monetary policy would be or has been ineffective (the so called "pushing on a string"). It's too early to tell that yet. The 999 sell price on scripts will eventually eclipse the gold taken out by the scribing gold sink. There is no way for us to know how much gold was taken out by the ban wave on gold sellers, but that should not be replaced. The market simply needs to adjust. And it can, because there is no leverage and no one's ESO house is getting repossessed. It's really just not a big deal. It's overall beneficial.
  • freespirit
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    "Woe is me, inflation is out of control"

    ZoS please do something!

    A few months later....

    "Woe is me the game's economy is in freefall"

    Zos please do something!

    Am I the only one finding this utterly hilarious?? >:)

    Two things....

    1:- I'm still selling stuff fine, lower prices, lower profit but ultimately fine.

    2:- When people have questioned why some of us hoard stuff, THIS IS WHY, I have many, many options of different items to sell, changing things up is always an option.

    Also I am still shopping, I love shopping, whilst mats are nice and cheap atm I have to say the newer furnishing plans, the ones from Gold Road, whilst initially dropping pretty fast in price, are now quite expensive again at least on PC-EU, I know this because I brought quite a few last night. I swear the game knows it's literally the only thing I might be persuaded to farm and refuses to let me drop them!! 😱
    When people say to me........
    "You're going to regret that in the morning"
    I sleep until midday cos I'm a problem solver!
  • Necrotech_Master
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    sarahthes wrote: »
    One thing is for sure, there is significantly less gold in the game, and it is not being redistributed as much as it was before either.

    Removing gold from the game is a good thing, but more movement of the gold that is generated should be encouraged. Gold movement helps the economy.

    Edit: a weekly endeavor to spend 100K at guild traders wouldn't be terrible, or even 50K if 100K is too high.

    ive actually probably spent a bit more than i normally have, in the past 2 months ive spent like almost a mil on various guild stores because prices are actually reasonable

    before i would maybe spend like 400k every like 6 months because stuff was always too high price for me to bother

    most of what i buy are items i only need 1 of: motif chapters, style pages, furnishing blueprints

    but i always set myself personal limits for what i considered as reasonable prices, for instance the motifs i generally refuse to buy anything over 25k, and for the past 3 years there was way too many motifs i needed that were double or triple or higher of that so i just saved my gold lol

    just because i have 106 mil gold in my bank doesnt mean i want to pay 100s of thousands of gold for a single motif, that doesnt make sense money wise
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014

    i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them

    feel free to stop by and use the facilities
  • katanagirl1
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    Pevey wrote: »
    Aurielle wrote: »
    Aurielle wrote: »
    Fair points, all. The fact remains, however, that the economy in general is finally accessible to a majority of players for the first time in a very long time. I acknowledge that it’s more difficult for you to sell big ticket items now, but understand that asking ZOS to work on the economy because a tiny percentage of players finds it harder now to sell multimillion gold items to an even tinier percentage of players sounds… a little rich to those who were previously priced out of common goods (pun fully intended).

    On the one hand we have lots of players saying there aren’t enough gold sinks…and then we have this. Which is it? What is preventing certain players from earning gold?

    We have “lots” of players saying there aren’t enough gold sinks? Where?

    Let me do a little search.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/655406/any-plans-to-fix-inflation-in-the-economy-pc-na/p1

    Hmm. Seems like people wanted another gold sink to…address the horrific inflation that was a problem at that time. :) I think you’ll find that players previously advocating for more gold sinks wouldn’t be doing so anymore, as prices are reasonable for a change.

    Prices might be “reasonable” if you do not sell anything. Perhaps that is the issue with those like you who think that players were “priced out” of the market before. If you do not sell things to earn gold then you are going to have less to spend on guild trader purchases. The gold that gets handed out for quest rewards and such is a pittance. That’s why players spend their time farming things to sell. You are paying for the convenience of not doing it yourself. If the price goes too low, then no one will be selling and what will you do then?

    Where do you think the gold comes from that is used to buy things on the guild traders? If long-time players have gold balances that just go up and up and up (we do), that takes gold out of circulation. Guild trader bids take gold out of circulation. Bans on gold seller accounts take gold out of circulation. Scribing vendor purchases take gold out of circulation.
    On the other side, you have people doing these things that give a "pittance" as you say, but that add up over time. Especially with writs. Prices on guild traders cannot get too out of line with gold rewards from in-game activities, or eventually it will be unsustainable.

    Virtually everyone is a crafter in this game. Everyone gets drops they don't need anymore just from playing the game, even if they are not farming. If you are wanting to sell something because you don't need it, there's a good chance other similar players don't need it either.

    The guild trader system is a way to sell what you don't need to other players for whatever they are willing to pay. There is nothing wrong with the economy. Some gold got removed from the game, nothing more. If people start buying gold and using that gold to make guild trader purchases (or to pay for carry runs from people who then use the gold to make guild trader purchases), then prices will go back up again. I'm certainly not hoping for that. Very much the opposite.

    I admit I am a little confused here when you bring up gold selling. Also, on console we did not have inflation and our economy got hammered pretty hard with sales down about 50% in some cases.
    Khajiit Stamblade main
    Dark Elf Magsorc
    Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
    Orc Stamplar PVP
    Breton Magsorc PVP
    Dark Elf Magden
    Khajiit Stamblade
    Khajiit Stamina Arcanist

    PS5 NA
  • katanagirl1
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    Heren wrote: »
    Prices might be “reasonable” if you do not sell anything. Perhaps that is the issue with those like you who think that players were “priced out” of the market before. If you do not sell things to earn gold then you are going to have less to spend on guild trader purchases. The gold that gets handed out for quest rewards and such is a pittance. That’s why players spend their time farming things to sell. You are paying for the convenience of not doing it yourself. If the price goes too low, then no one will be selling and what will you do then?

    So according to you, people spend their time farming things to sell on the market, because that's the only way to make solid gold income ( as raw generation of gold is a pittance ), and thus the only way to really spend on guild traders market; and doing so, they are paying for the convenience of not doing it ( farming things ) themselves. But wait... wasn't that the start ?

    So we have player farming in order to get the privilege of not farming ! Genius !

    Ok i'm joking, I kinda understand what you mean ( I think ), but please, everyone is so stressed out and saying non-sense upon non-sense in all these threads...

    And then, if people are farming things to basically trade them for other things they don't want to / can't farm ( let's say, a basic mats farmer, a pve farmer and a pvp farmer : basics mats sells things people use in pve and pvp ( potions, etc ), pve sells motifs and rare mats from dungeon and trials to people that don't do them, pvp sells motifs, other rewards and rare mats from pvp activities to people that don't do them ); you have a ( very ) basic economy with goods and money flowing.

    But as Pevey pointed out, gold is generated : you have to do these things that reward such a pittance in order to get things at least started; and since there is golds sinks, you have to do them again to get things going. Because if there is no fresh generation of gold, the global amount will shrink leading to lower prices, and as Pevey said, if more gold become generated or available outside of trading ( big rewards in the calendar maybe, double gold event, these infamous gold sellers ), the global amount of gold will inflate, leading to higher price.

    Every game deal with these problems in their own way, or at least they try to, but these cycles ( inflation, deflation ) are, to some extent, the norme : different events led to this.

    The question is more about the power of the gold rather than the prices : if prices are going down, say almost all prices ( motifs, basic mats, rare mats, luxury goods, and you could even add crowns, PL and other kind of services ), you will sell for less but you will also spend less. Sure it don't feel good having a lesser income, but if your spending are also reduced, nothing really changed.

    The only things that won't changed are hard gold sink : repair costs, some mats I guess, house buying, and such. Things that eat fixed amount of gold. Trading taxes and trader hiring cost are not fix, they depend of the price of the goods you sell and the amount of gold you're willing to spend on bidding for traders ( and the other guilds too ). And I understand that it is not an easy matter, and that accomodation will take time, leaving some guilds bankrupted because it's natural to want to keep investing high amounts of gold in hope of high profits, and sure maybe taking some steps down isn't an option and would only lead to the guild dying. Capitalism's a hard world.

    But to quickly adress your last sentence / question : I don't think prices will get so low that no one will be selling ( eh, again this ghastly threat of 'but in the end there will be no one selling !!!!' ). As prices get lower and lower, people that get low to medium income will be more and more interested ( if the goods have a real demand ), and they will buy them, leading to prices going up again. Maybe a new balance will be find, but there will be a balance between supply, demand and gold available ( roughly ). Maybe there will be less supply as people don't wan't to farm as much for lesser income, but I'm quite sure that there will still be people willing to do so, and sell. Maybe because lesser income also mean lesser prices in general, so you can still buy valuable things with less gold.

    Just like everyone else on these forums, I didn't conduct an extensive survey of the market, but reading comments from people : price of basic mats ( columbine for example, dragon rheum to ) are droping; prices of motifs are droping; so it seems to me that, to a certain extent, there is a new balance forming, not a complete crash of the market with no one selling, and until ( or rather if ) we reach that state, I'm going to continue considering these doom and gloom sayers as rather dramatic people. And if we reach a state of complete crash with no one selling, well, I will have excuses to make for sure !

    Until then, best luck to all traders ! For me, I think i'm going to continue having fun reading these threads.

    As I mentioned in the other post, on console I think things have been rougher than on PC.
    Khajiit Stamblade main
    Dark Elf Magsorc
    Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
    Orc Stamplar PVP
    Breton Magsorc PVP
    Dark Elf Magden
    Khajiit Stamblade
    Khajiit Stamina Arcanist

    PS5 NA
  • PrincessOfThieves
    PrincessOfThieves
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    Aurielle wrote: »
    Low prices are a good thing. Please stop with the posts complaining about an objectively better economy.

    Agreed. Stuff is actually affordable for the first time in a long time for those of us who don’t play the trader end game 24/7. This situation puts housing enthusiasts and flippers at a disadvantage, for sure, but it’s better for the game’s population as a whole. It’s nice to actually be able to buy gold mats for a build without completely depleting my coffers for a change. It lets me spend more time doing what I want to do (PVP) and less time doing what I can’t stand (farming).

    Actually it puts housing enthusiasts at an advantage. I can now afford mats to make decorations to actually decorate my houses. The housing decorating community pretty much died because of the whale economy and with it so did how I made my gold as a decorator for hire. This is a massive boon to the housing community.

    As a housing fan, I respectfully disagree. So many housing items are only available in crown store, and crowns still cost 2.5-3k per crown on pc/eu. I used to be able to sustain my housing addiction by doing writs, but it's no longer viable.
    And I wouldn't say that the situation with heartwood and mundane runes is any better. Yes, they are cheaper, but anything you can sell to make gold is also much cheaper.
    Not to mention the houses that you can purchase for gold and weekly vendor items. It's now harder to afford those, too.
  • Aurielle
    Aurielle
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    Aurielle wrote: »
    Aurielle wrote: »
    Fair points, all. The fact remains, however, that the economy in general is finally accessible to a majority of players for the first time in a very long time. I acknowledge that it’s more difficult for you to sell big ticket items now, but understand that asking ZOS to work on the economy because a tiny percentage of players finds it harder now to sell multimillion gold items to an even tinier percentage of players sounds… a little rich to those who were previously priced out of common goods (pun fully intended).

    On the one hand we have lots of players saying there aren’t enough gold sinks…and then we have this. Which is it? What is preventing certain players from earning gold?

    We have “lots” of players saying there aren’t enough gold sinks? Where?

    Let me do a little search.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/655406/any-plans-to-fix-inflation-in-the-economy-pc-na/p1

    Hmm. Seems like people wanted another gold sink to…address the horrific inflation that was a problem at that time. :) I think you’ll find that players previously advocating for more gold sinks wouldn’t be doing so anymore, as prices are reasonable for a change.

    Prices might be “reasonable” if you do not sell anything. Perhaps that is the issue with those like you who think that players were “priced out” of the market before. If you do not sell things to earn gold then you are going to have less to spend on guild trader purchases. The gold that gets handed out for quest rewards and such is a pittance. That’s why players spend their time farming things to sell. You are paying for the convenience of not doing it yourself. If the price goes too low, then no one will be selling and what will you do then?

    I do sell things, and usually make about a million gold per week — I just don’t spend a significant amount of my game time on trading, because that cuts into time I’d rather spend doing things in game that matter to me. Your argument here is a bit tautological. If I spend more of my time farming for things to sell, then… I don’t really need to buy those things from traders, as I already have them. My purchases mainly tend to be gold upgrade materials and the occasional motif. I farm here and there to save my gold, and supplement what I don’t have with guild trader purchases when I’m working on new builds. The previous inflation meant I just had to be more patient and wait until more upgrade mats trickled in with writs and refining, because I refused to spend 50k gold on a single Dreugh Wax. Now I can actually buy Dreugh Wax without feeling like I’m being gouged.
  • wolfie1.0.
    wolfie1.0.
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    Pevey wrote: »
    wolfie1.0. wrote: »
    sarahthes wrote: »
    One thing is for sure, there is significantly less gold in the game, and it is not being redistributed as much as it was before either.

    Removing gold from the game is a good thing, but more movement of the gold that is generated should be encouraged. Gold movement helps the economy.

    Edit: a weekly endeavor to spend 100K at guild traders wouldn't be terrible, or even 50K if 100K is too high.

    It's not really that there is less gold in total in the game. It's just that there is less gold in circulation.

    The reason deflationary periods are bad for an economy is because it encourages people with currencies to hoard it and not be willing to part with it due to its high value and in it's worse stages your better off bartering/trading goods and services.

    Ironically enough, in periods of super high inflation currency is devalued to the point that it's near worthless and your better off bartering/trading goods and services.

    There are reasons why a very small amount of constant inflation is preferred irl

    There is both less gold and less circulation.

    The reason deflation is so feared in the modern economy is leverage. There is no leverage in ESO.

    The idea of the endeavor is not bad. This is essentially Keynesian. Increase demand by increasing controllable expenditures, usually by increasing government spending since you can't control private spending. There are pros/cons of this approach that you can read about if interested.

    So, far, ZOS has taken the monetary approach. In other words, injecting more gold into the game. The Keynesian approach is argued for when it's felt that monetary policy would be or has been ineffective (the so called "pushing on a string"). It's too early to tell that yet. The 999 sell price on scripts will eventually eclipse the gold taken out by the scribing gold sink. There is no way for us to know how much gold was taken out by the ban wave on gold sellers, but that should not be replaced. The market simply needs to adjust. And it can, because there is no leverage and no one's ESO house is getting repossessed. It's really just not a big deal. It's overall beneficial.

    I would argue that the bulk of the gold that has been taken out of circulation, isn't technically out of circulation with finality. It's more of a temporary situation and dependent on an IF clause.

    Basically, it's gold that's sitting in accounts of players that have nothing of interest to them to buy or it's in the banks of players that are taking a break from eso in the long term or short.

    Which is why I excluded the out of circulation argument from my argument above. I probably shouldn't have since if it's not moving it's out of circulation, but it could be if players return.
  • wolfie1.0.
    wolfie1.0.
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    freespirit wrote: »
    "Woe is me, inflation is out of control"

    ZoS please do something!

    A few months later....

    "Woe is me the game's economy is in freefall"

    Zos please do something!

    Am I the only one finding this utterly hilarious?? >:)

    Two things....

    1:- I'm still selling stuff fine, lower prices, lower profit but ultimately fine.

    2:- When people have questioned why some of us hoard stuff, THIS IS WHY, I have many, many options of different items to sell, changing things up is always an option.

    Also I am still shopping, I love shopping, whilst mats are nice and cheap atm I have to say the newer furnishing plans, the ones from Gold Road, whilst initially dropping pretty fast in price, are now quite expensive again at least on PC-EU, I know this because I brought quite a few last night. I swear the game knows it's literally the only thing I might be persuaded to farm and refuses to let me drop them!! 😱

    Two different groups of people with two different types of issues. Antagonizing either isn't exactly helpful.

    Also, hoarding can impact both inflationary and deflationary economies negatively, and in eso all that is different is what you hoard in each one.

    I will argue that the two most negative economic mechanisms in eso are craft bags and BOP Items and currencies.
  • katanagirl1
    katanagirl1
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    Aurielle wrote: »
    Aurielle wrote: »
    Aurielle wrote: »
    Fair points, all. The fact remains, however, that the economy in general is finally accessible to a majority of players for the first time in a very long time. I acknowledge that it’s more difficult for you to sell big ticket items now, but understand that asking ZOS to work on the economy because a tiny percentage of players finds it harder now to sell multimillion gold items to an even tinier percentage of players sounds… a little rich to those who were previously priced out of common goods (pun fully intended).

    On the one hand we have lots of players saying there aren’t enough gold sinks…and then we have this. Which is it? What is preventing certain players from earning gold?

    We have “lots” of players saying there aren’t enough gold sinks? Where?

    Let me do a little search.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/655406/any-plans-to-fix-inflation-in-the-economy-pc-na/p1

    Hmm. Seems like people wanted another gold sink to…address the horrific inflation that was a problem at that time. :) I think you’ll find that players previously advocating for more gold sinks wouldn’t be doing so anymore, as prices are reasonable for a change.

    Prices might be “reasonable” if you do not sell anything. Perhaps that is the issue with those like you who think that players were “priced out” of the market before. If you do not sell things to earn gold then you are going to have less to spend on guild trader purchases. The gold that gets handed out for quest rewards and such is a pittance. That’s why players spend their time farming things to sell. You are paying for the convenience of not doing it yourself. If the price goes too low, then no one will be selling and what will you do then?

    I do sell things, and usually make about a million gold per week — I just don’t spend a significant amount of my game time on trading, because that cuts into time I’d rather spend doing things in game that matter to me. Your argument here is a bit tautological. If I spend more of my time farming for things to sell, then… I don’t really need to buy those things from traders, as I already have them. My purchases mainly tend to be gold upgrade materials and the occasional motif. I farm here and there to save my gold, and supplement what I don’t have with guild trader purchases when I’m working on new builds. The previous inflation meant I just had to be more patient and wait until more upgrade mats trickled in with writs and refining, because I refused to spend 50k gold on a single Dreugh Wax. Now I can actually buy Dreugh Wax without feeling like I’m being gouged.

    Wow, I do sell a lot and it I am not nearly getting that amount of sales. Maybe 50-100k per week now. However, I think the last time I checked on PS mats were about 2k each, before prices fell. I never buy them though since daily crafting writs are quick and easy (even on console) and I get plenty that way, except for housing mats.
    Khajiit Stamblade main
    Dark Elf Magsorc
    Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
    Orc Stamplar PVP
    Breton Magsorc PVP
    Dark Elf Magden
    Khajiit Stamblade
    Khajiit Stamina Arcanist

    PS5 NA
  • Pevey
    Pevey
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    ✭✭
    Aurielle wrote: »
    Aurielle wrote: »
    Aurielle wrote: »
    Fair points, all. The fact remains, however, that the economy in general is finally accessible to a majority of players for the first time in a very long time. I acknowledge that it’s more difficult for you to sell big ticket items now, but understand that asking ZOS to work on the economy because a tiny percentage of players finds it harder now to sell multimillion gold items to an even tinier percentage of players sounds… a little rich to those who were previously priced out of common goods (pun fully intended).

    On the one hand we have lots of players saying there aren’t enough gold sinks…and then we have this. Which is it? What is preventing certain players from earning gold?

    We have “lots” of players saying there aren’t enough gold sinks? Where?

    Let me do a little search.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/655406/any-plans-to-fix-inflation-in-the-economy-pc-na/p1

    Hmm. Seems like people wanted another gold sink to…address the horrific inflation that was a problem at that time. :) I think you’ll find that players previously advocating for more gold sinks wouldn’t be doing so anymore, as prices are reasonable for a change.

    Prices might be “reasonable” if you do not sell anything. Perhaps that is the issue with those like you who think that players were “priced out” of the market before. If you do not sell things to earn gold then you are going to have less to spend on guild trader purchases. The gold that gets handed out for quest rewards and such is a pittance. That’s why players spend their time farming things to sell. You are paying for the convenience of not doing it yourself. If the price goes too low, then no one will be selling and what will you do then?

    I do sell things, and usually make about a million gold per week — I just don’t spend a significant amount of my game time on trading, because that cuts into time I’d rather spend doing things in game that matter to me. Your argument here is a bit tautological. If I spend more of my time farming for things to sell, then… I don’t really need to buy those things from traders, as I already have them. My purchases mainly tend to be gold upgrade materials and the occasional motif. I farm here and there to save my gold, and supplement what I don’t have with guild trader purchases when I’m working on new builds. The previous inflation meant I just had to be more patient and wait until more upgrade mats trickled in with writs and refining, because I refused to spend 50k gold on a single Dreugh Wax. Now I can actually buy Dreugh Wax without feeling like I’m being gouged.

    Wow, I do sell a lot and it I am not nearly getting that amount of sales. Maybe 50-100k per week now. However, I think the last time I checked on PS mats were about 2k each, before prices fell. I never buy them though since daily crafting writs are quick and easy (even on console) and I get plenty that way, except for housing mats.

    I can't say much about the console economies. The one things I do know is that we get a constant influx of players coming over to PC from console. That can't be good for things. So I think it's fair to say there are different factors at play. I can only speak to PC, and specifically PCNA.
  • katanagirl1
    katanagirl1
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    Heren wrote: »
    Prices might be “reasonable” if you do not sell anything. Perhaps that is the issue with those like you who think that players were “priced out” of the market before. If you do not sell things to earn gold then you are going to have less to spend on guild trader purchases. The gold that gets handed out for quest rewards and such is a pittance. That’s why players spend their time farming things to sell. You are paying for the convenience of not doing it yourself. If the price goes too low, then no one will be selling and what will you do then?

    So according to you, people spend their time farming things to sell on the market, because that's the only way to make solid gold income ( as raw generation of gold is a pittance ), and thus the only way to really spend on guild traders market; and doing so, they are paying for the convenience of not doing it ( farming things ) themselves. But wait... wasn't that the start ?

    So we have player farming in order to get the privilege of not farming ! Genius !

    Ok i'm joking, I kinda understand what you mean ( I think ), but please, everyone is so stressed out and saying non-sense upon non-sense in all these threads...

    And then, if people are farming things to basically trade them for other things they don't want to / can't farm ( let's say, a basic mats farmer, a pve farmer and a pvp farmer : basics mats sells things people use in pve and pvp ( potions, etc ), pve sells motifs and rare mats from dungeon and trials to people that don't do them, pvp sells motifs, other rewards and rare mats from pvp activities to people that don't do them ); you have a ( very ) basic economy with goods and money flowing.

    But as Pevey pointed out, gold is generated : you have to do these things that reward such a pittance in order to get things at least started; and since there is golds sinks, you have to do them again to get things going. Because if there is no fresh generation of gold, the global amount will shrink leading to lower prices, and as Pevey said, if more gold become generated or available outside of trading ( big rewards in the calendar maybe, double gold event, these infamous gold sellers ), the global amount of gold will inflate, leading to higher price.

    Every game deal with these problems in their own way, or at least they try to, but these cycles ( inflation, deflation ) are, to some extent, the norme : different events led to this.

    The question is more about the power of the gold rather than the prices : if prices are going down, say almost all prices ( motifs, basic mats, rare mats, luxury goods, and you could even add crowns, PL and other kind of services ), you will sell for less but you will also spend less. Sure it don't feel good having a lesser income, but if your spending are also reduced, nothing really changed.

    The only things that won't changed are hard gold sink : repair costs, some mats I guess, house buying, and such. Things that eat fixed amount of gold. Trading taxes and trader hiring cost are not fix, they depend of the price of the goods you sell and the amount of gold you're willing to spend on bidding for traders ( and the other guilds too ). And I understand that it is not an easy matter, and that accomodation will take time, leaving some guilds bankrupted because it's natural to want to keep investing high amounts of gold in hope of high profits, and sure maybe taking some steps down isn't an option and would only lead to the guild dying. Capitalism's a hard world.

    But to quickly adress your last sentence / question : I don't think prices will get so low that no one will be selling ( eh, again this ghastly threat of 'but in the end there will be no one selling !!!!' ). As prices get lower and lower, people that get low to medium income will be more and more interested ( if the goods have a real demand ), and they will buy them, leading to prices going up again. Maybe a new balance will be find, but there will be a balance between supply, demand and gold available ( roughly ). Maybe there will be less supply as people don't wan't to farm as much for lesser income, but I'm quite sure that there will still be people willing to do so, and sell. Maybe because lesser income also mean lesser prices in general, so you can still buy valuable things with less gold.

    Just like everyone else on these forums, I didn't conduct an extensive survey of the market, but reading comments from people : price of basic mats ( columbine for example, dragon rheum to ) are droping; prices of motifs are droping; so it seems to me that, to a certain extent, there is a new balance forming, not a complete crash of the market with no one selling, and until ( or rather if ) we reach that state, I'm going to continue considering these doom and gloom sayers as rather dramatic people. And if we reach a state of complete crash with no one selling, well, I will have excuses to make for sure !

    Until then, best luck to all traders ! For me, I think i'm going to continue having fun reading these threads.

    Now that I have had some sleep I wish to comment more directly..

    Yes, at first you do quests to build up gold, but after my first AD character finished Cadwell’s Gold she had just enough gold to purchase Twin Arches house. I think that is less than 100k. I furnished it with Khajiit stuff instead of buying pricy Redguard plans. I didn’t have a trader and only did crafting writs on one toon. Selling to npc merchants does not gain much gold either.

    Housing is expensive. The plans are expensive, the furnishing mats are expensive. By farming plans I can learn some and sell duplicates to buy more. So I am farming both to sell and so I can buy from traders who were lucky enough to get the plans I did not find. I assume this is typical for a lot of players. My trading guild has been a godsend.

    Mats have always been cheap on PS, probably because of the armies of bots in starter zones and Craglorn. I can’t really sell those because I need them for crafting too. It would not earn me much anyway.

    So unlike the other reply to my post inferred, I am not trying to sell things that no one wants. In fact furnishing plans for the new zone are highly desirable. I was having to list greens and blues at less than 20k to get them to sell before they expired but I see prices in traders are back up a little, so maybe things are stabilizing. Other players don’t want to farm their own mats but that is nothing compared to opening the same 10 cabinets over and over again for hours to get something to sell.

    I feel like I might be rambling a bit, I did not sleep well so apologies for that. There was something else I wanted to say but I can’t remember. Maybe I don’t know anything about what I am talking about. I can only draw on my personal experience playing for as long as I have.
    Khajiit Stamblade main
    Dark Elf Magsorc
    Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
    Orc Stamplar PVP
    Breton Magsorc PVP
    Dark Elf Magden
    Khajiit Stamblade
    Khajiit Stamina Arcanist

    PS5 NA
  • jonenukang
    jonenukang
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    Low prices are a good thing. Please stop with the posts complaining about an objectively better economy.

    How can you get nice and cheap decorations?
  • dk_dunkirk
    dk_dunkirk
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    They DID work on it a little more, by introducing achievements that require 180 surveys to complete. Doing the writs to GET the surveys, and then collecting the mats and refining them should put even more upgrade materials into the market, and further reduce prices. Most excellent!
  • Zodiarkslayer
    Zodiarkslayer
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    This is absolutely not the case for the high value items that cost over 1 million gold because they are so rare or hard to get.
    Very true.
    The higher the rarity, the higher is the price tag. And the higher the price tag, the longer becomes the decision process for the purchaser.
    Those are basic laws of economics and marketing. It's not like they are a secret
    or some sort of rocket science.
    Yet only a small portion of people here on the forums seem to be aware of them.
    If anyone here says: OH! But, PVP! I swear I'll ...

    Thank you for the valuable input and respectfully recommend to discuss that aspect of ESO on the PVP forum.
  • darvaria
    darvaria
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    Take care in what you ask for. A "fix" could be disasterous.
  • Zodiarkslayer
    Zodiarkslayer
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    sarahthes wrote: »
    One thing is for sure, there is significantly less gold in the game, and it is not being redistributed as much as it was before either.

    Whaaaaadd?

    <shakes his head in disbelief>

    How could you possibly know that? Did it just disappear into thin air?

    And the lessed gold is not redistributed? As in some entity collects everything and distributes everything among the players? What? Is ESO communism all of a sudden?

    Here is a dump of realism for everyone:
    What we see right now is just plain capitalism 101. There was never any inflation. Just a biiiiiiig speculation bubble. And it finally burst.


    Everyone was betting on high prices and everyone was greedy to make profits. And now everyone got kicked in the balls and has to eat their losses.

    You win some, you loose some.
    You win a lot. You loose a lot.
    It's all the same.
    If anyone here says: OH! But, PVP! I swear I'll ...

    Thank you for the valuable input and respectfully recommend to discuss that aspect of ESO on the PVP forum.
  • Aurielle
    Aurielle
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    Aurielle wrote: »
    Aurielle wrote: »
    Aurielle wrote: »
    Fair points, all. The fact remains, however, that the economy in general is finally accessible to a majority of players for the first time in a very long time. I acknowledge that it’s more difficult for you to sell big ticket items now, but understand that asking ZOS to work on the economy because a tiny percentage of players finds it harder now to sell multimillion gold items to an even tinier percentage of players sounds… a little rich to those who were previously priced out of common goods (pun fully intended).

    On the one hand we have lots of players saying there aren’t enough gold sinks…and then we have this. Which is it? What is preventing certain players from earning gold?

    We have “lots” of players saying there aren’t enough gold sinks? Where?

    Let me do a little search.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/655406/any-plans-to-fix-inflation-in-the-economy-pc-na/p1

    Hmm. Seems like people wanted another gold sink to…address the horrific inflation that was a problem at that time. :) I think you’ll find that players previously advocating for more gold sinks wouldn’t be doing so anymore, as prices are reasonable for a change.

    Prices might be “reasonable” if you do not sell anything. Perhaps that is the issue with those like you who think that players were “priced out” of the market before. If you do not sell things to earn gold then you are going to have less to spend on guild trader purchases. The gold that gets handed out for quest rewards and such is a pittance. That’s why players spend their time farming things to sell. You are paying for the convenience of not doing it yourself. If the price goes too low, then no one will be selling and what will you do then?

    I do sell things, and usually make about a million gold per week — I just don’t spend a significant amount of my game time on trading, because that cuts into time I’d rather spend doing things in game that matter to me. Your argument here is a bit tautological. If I spend more of my time farming for things to sell, then… I don’t really need to buy those things from traders, as I already have them. My purchases mainly tend to be gold upgrade materials and the occasional motif. I farm here and there to save my gold, and supplement what I don’t have with guild trader purchases when I’m working on new builds. The previous inflation meant I just had to be more patient and wait until more upgrade mats trickled in with writs and refining, because I refused to spend 50k gold on a single Dreugh Wax. Now I can actually buy Dreugh Wax without feeling like I’m being gouged.

    Wow, I do sell a lot and it I am not nearly getting that amount of sales. Maybe 50-100k per week now. However, I think the last time I checked on PS mats were about 2k each, before prices fell. I never buy them though since daily crafting writs are quick and easy (even on console) and I get plenty that way, except for housing mats.

    The console and PC market is very different. I used to play on console and was shocked by how much more expensive it is (and how easier it is to make gold) on PC. As a PVP main, I make most of my money by converting AP into gold. It’s also really easy to do crafting surveys due to our addons (no squinting at a map on your phone), so I have stacks upon stacks of refined mats that I sell all day, every day. It adds up. Some weeks I may only make 500k if I have a busy week at work and have less time to log on and refresh my listings.
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