DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Low prices are a good thing. Please stop with the posts complaining about an objectively better economy.
They HAVE been working on the in-game economy, and I think they have done a GREAT job. Hear me out:
RMT scum migrated to ESO in droves over the years, and it distorted ESO's economy significantly. If ESO were a dying game, they would do nothing. They would allocate no resources to this. It is a very difficult problem to address, and one that is never *solved* and ongoing. There are many signs that ZOS has people on this and are taking it seriously. Here is probably the best sign:
This is from one place where people use real money to buy gold. I'm not going to name the site. Someone in another thread mentioned the gold-seller crackdown, so I googled it and found that the price of gold has indeed jumped, about 5-fold. A 500% increase. Awesome! I hope it goes up and up.
Clearly, the risks have gone up. ZOS has become better at identifying and banning these people.
Consider the ESO economy of the last 5 years:
- Scammers steal credit cards and need to monetize them
- They buy crowns in ESO using the stolen cards to get gold
- They then sell this gold for real money. Their cycle is complete. Rinse, repeat.
- Who was buying the gold? My guess is mostly people buying carries and level boosting.
- The gold received by carry sellers was spent on all sorts of things. Prices of everything increased.
Gold that was sitting in the banks of long-term players flooded into the market to buy cheap crowns (some portion sold by credit card thieves) and ended up in the hands of end-game players very willing to spend it on all sorts of things for convenience. Including, more crowns! So then the gold was BACK in the hands of the RMT scum to sell.
THAT was not a good economy. I'm sure it felt good to some traders that you couldn't lose, that prices of everything you sold were always going up. But THAT was the economy of a dying game.
What we have now is an economy going through a MAJOR adjustment period. I'm sure it is very stressful for trade guild leaders. And also carry team leaders, who are trying to figure out pricing in this new economy. But they are very analytical, that's how they are so good at PVE group optimization in this game. They know less gold buys more now, it's just that everything is still a moving target. Things will settle to a new normal.
I am far from a cheerleader. I'm often critical of ZOS and never shy about sharing my opinion. But looking at that chart above, I must say to the people at ZOS who are working on this, AWESOME JOB! WELL DONE!
On top of this, we had the scribing gold sink, which took more gold out of circulation. ZOS is alleviating that with a 999 vendor sell price on all duplicate scripts starting with Monday's patch. That will add up. Anything sold to a vendor generates NEW gold, so it will help stabilize things.
The economy will be fine.
Necrotech_Master wrote: »They HAVE been working on the in-game economy, and I think they have done a GREAT job. Hear me out:
RMT scum migrated to ESO in droves over the years, and it distorted ESO's economy significantly. If ESO were a dying game, they would do nothing. They would allocate no resources to this. It is a very difficult problem to address, and one that is never *solved* and ongoing. There are many signs that ZOS has people on this and are taking it seriously. Here is probably the best sign:
This is from one place where people use real money to buy gold. I'm not going to name the site. Someone in another thread mentioned the gold-seller crackdown, so I googled it and found that the price of gold has indeed jumped, about 5-fold. A 500% increase. Awesome! I hope it goes up and up.
Clearly, the risks have gone up. ZOS has become better at identifying and banning these people.
Consider the ESO economy of the last 5 years:
- Scammers steal credit cards and need to monetize them
- They buy crowns in ESO using the stolen cards to get gold
- They then sell this gold for real money. Their cycle is complete. Rinse, repeat.
- Who was buying the gold? My guess is mostly people buying carries and level boosting.
- The gold received by carry sellers was spent on all sorts of things. Prices of everything increased.
Gold that was sitting in the banks of long-term players flooded into the market to buy cheap crowns (some portion sold by credit card thieves) and ended up in the hands of end-game players very willing to spend it on all sorts of things for convenience. Including, more crowns! So then the gold was BACK in the hands of the RMT scum to sell.
THAT was not a good economy. I'm sure it felt good to some traders that you couldn't lose, that prices of everything you sold were always going up. But THAT was the economy of a dying game.
What we have now is an economy going through a MAJOR adjustment period. I'm sure it is very stressful for trade guild leaders. And also carry team leaders, who are trying to figure out pricing in this new economy. But they are very analytical, that's how they are so good at PVE group optimization in this game. They know less gold buys more now, it's just that everything is still a moving target. Things will settle to a new normal.
I am far from a cheerleader. I'm often critical of ZOS and never shy about sharing my opinion. But looking at that chart above, I must say to the people at ZOS who are working on this, AWESOME JOB! WELL DONE!
On top of this, we had the scribing gold sink, which took more gold out of circulation. ZOS is alleviating that with a 999 vendor sell price on all duplicate scripts starting with Monday's patch. That will add up. Anything sold to a vendor generates NEW gold, so it will help stabilize things.
The economy will be fine.
a large portion of the gold selling and RMT spammers became a thing when the game was being offered free during the promotion on the epic store lol
those there was effectively no gold spammers in chat before that promotion and there was tons of them after, and i think its taken them until now to effectively remove 90% of them
freespirit wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »They HAVE been working on the in-game economy, and I think they have done a GREAT job. Hear me out:
RMT scum migrated to ESO in droves over the years, and it distorted ESO's economy significantly. If ESO were a dying game, they would do nothing. They would allocate no resources to this. It is a very difficult problem to address, and one that is never *solved* and ongoing. There are many signs that ZOS has people on this and are taking it seriously. Here is probably the best sign:
This is from one place where people use real money to buy gold. I'm not going to name the site. Someone in another thread mentioned the gold-seller crackdown, so I googled it and found that the price of gold has indeed jumped, about 5-fold. A 500% increase. Awesome! I hope it goes up and up.
Clearly, the risks have gone up. ZOS has become better at identifying and banning these people.
Consider the ESO economy of the last 5 years:
- Scammers steal credit cards and need to monetize them
- They buy crowns in ESO using the stolen cards to get gold
- They then sell this gold for real money. Their cycle is complete. Rinse, repeat.
- Who was buying the gold? My guess is mostly people buying carries and level boosting.
- The gold received by carry sellers was spent on all sorts of things. Prices of everything increased.
Gold that was sitting in the banks of long-term players flooded into the market to buy cheap crowns (some portion sold by credit card thieves) and ended up in the hands of end-game players very willing to spend it on all sorts of things for convenience. Including, more crowns! So then the gold was BACK in the hands of the RMT scum to sell.
THAT was not a good economy. I'm sure it felt good to some traders that you couldn't lose, that prices of everything you sold were always going up. But THAT was the economy of a dying game.
What we have now is an economy going through a MAJOR adjustment period. I'm sure it is very stressful for trade guild leaders. And also carry team leaders, who are trying to figure out pricing in this new economy. But they are very analytical, that's how they are so good at PVE group optimization in this game. They know less gold buys more now, it's just that everything is still a moving target. Things will settle to a new normal.
I am far from a cheerleader. I'm often critical of ZOS and never shy about sharing my opinion. But looking at that chart above, I must say to the people at ZOS who are working on this, AWESOME JOB! WELL DONE!
On top of this, we had the scribing gold sink, which took more gold out of circulation. ZOS is alleviating that with a 999 vendor sell price on all duplicate scripts starting with Monday's patch. That will add up. Anything sold to a vendor generates NEW gold, so it will help stabilize things.
The economy will be fine.
a large portion of the gold selling and RMT spammers became a thing when the game was being offered free during the promotion on the epic store lol
those there was effectively no gold spammers in chat before that promotion and there was tons of them after, and i think its taken them until now to effectively remove 90% of them
The worst thing is the team of people responsible for the majority of gold selling adverts I've ever seen are still around and still posting their adverts many times a day(PC-EU)!!
A quick search of forums will show you these people were around long before the Epic giveaway and unfortunately it seems they will be around long after it too!!
I notice on PS/NA that the person spamming zone chat advertising a web site to buy in game gold using IRL cash is using a different name every day. I hope that is because ZOS keeps banning their account and forcing them to get a new one.
And I'm not having a problem with selling stuff at guild trader. Recently, in three days I went from 30 items listed at guild trader to zero, everything sold, and thank you very much!
CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Which would you call a healthier IRL economy? One in which a sandwich costs $20 or one in which a sandwich costs $5? A good economy is the latter, and this is where ESO's economy is moving towards.
Inflation was rampant, and the value of gold was extremely low. The value of gold is now rising, and players are.... complaining?
Prices of everything across the board have dropped. That's a good thing. No, you won't be selling things for as high as you were, but you also won't be buying things for as high as you were. Adjust accordingly.
DenverRalphy wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Which would you call a healthier IRL economy? One in which a sandwich costs $20 or one in which a sandwich costs $5? A good economy is the latter, and this is where ESO's economy is moving towards.
Inflation was rampant, and the value of gold was extremely low. The value of gold is now rising, and players are.... complaining?
Prices of everything across the board have dropped. That's a good thing. No, you won't be selling things for as high as you were, but you also won't be buying things for as high as you were. Adjust accordingly.
Cheaper prices do not equate to a better economy. If Sandwiches dropped from $20 down to $5, it means nothing if so too did the average income drop commensurately. If you have $100/day income and are paying $20 for a sandwich, then a year later you are paying $5 for a sandwich, but your income has dropped to $25/day, then the economy hasn't improved. It's still running at the same balance it had before.
DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Low prices are a good thing. Please stop with the posts complaining about an objectively better economy.
Agreed. Stuff is actually affordable for the first time in a long time for those of us who don’t play the trader end game 24/7. This situation puts housing enthusiasts and flippers at a disadvantage, for sure, but it’s better for the game’s population as a whole. It’s nice to actually be able to buy gold mats for a build without completely depleting my coffers for a change. It lets me spend more time doing what I want to do (PVP) and less time doing what I can’t stand (farming).
xclassgaming wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Low prices are a good thing. Please stop with the posts complaining about an objectively better economy.
Agreed. Stuff is actually affordable for the first time in a long time for those of us who don’t play the trader end game 24/7. This situation puts housing enthusiasts and flippers at a disadvantage, for sure, but it’s better for the game’s population as a whole. It’s nice to actually be able to buy gold mats for a build without completely depleting my coffers for a change. It lets me spend more time doing what I want to do (PVP) and less time doing what I can’t stand (farming).
It's not better IT'S WORSE.
As to the OP's point. ZOS did work on the economy, that is why it is deflating. The changes are working as intended, it is just some people are finding that painful and inconvenient.
DenverRalphy wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Which would you call a healthier IRL economy? One in which a sandwich costs $20 or one in which a sandwich costs $5? A good economy is the latter, and this is where ESO's economy is moving towards.
Inflation was rampant, and the value of gold was extremely low. The value of gold is now rising, and players are.... complaining?
Prices of everything across the board have dropped. That's a good thing. No, you won't be selling things for as high as you were, but you also won't be buying things for as high as you were. Adjust accordingly.
Cheaper prices do not equate to a better economy. If Sandwiches dropped from $20 down to $5, it means nothing if so too did the average income drop commensurately. If you have $100/day income and are paying $20 for a sandwich, then a year later you are paying $5 for a sandwich, but your income has dropped to $25/day, then the economy hasn't improved. It's still running at the same balance it had before.
CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »DenverRalphy wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Which would you call a healthier IRL economy? One in which a sandwich costs $20 or one in which a sandwich costs $5? A good economy is the latter, and this is where ESO's economy is moving towards.
Inflation was rampant, and the value of gold was extremely low. The value of gold is now rising, and players are.... complaining?
Prices of everything across the board have dropped. That's a good thing. No, you won't be selling things for as high as you were, but you also won't be buying things for as high as you were. Adjust accordingly.
Cheaper prices do not equate to a better economy. If Sandwiches dropped from $20 down to $5, it means nothing if so too did the average income drop commensurately. If you have $100/day income and are paying $20 for a sandwich, then a year later you are paying $5 for a sandwich, but your income has dropped to $25/day, then the economy hasn't improved. It's still running at the same balance it had before.
Except income has stayed the same. All of the things that inject gold into the economy (quest rewards, crafting dailies, BG merits, etc.) have stayed the exact same.
Get to consuming, if everyone is harvesting their on mats and consumables there isn't as much demand. Sort it out and adjust. There is another explorers event in September, so have fun.
xclassgaming wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Low prices are a good thing. Please stop with the posts complaining about an objectively better economy.
Agreed. Stuff is actually affordable for the first time in a long time for those of us who don’t play the trader end game 24/7. This situation puts housing enthusiasts and flippers at a disadvantage, for sure, but it’s better for the game’s population as a whole. It’s nice to actually be able to buy gold mats for a build without completely depleting my coffers for a change. It lets me spend more time doing what I want to do (PVP) and less time doing what I can’t stand (farming).
It's not better IT'S WORSE.
It’s only worse for people who play the game to make gold. It’s better for people who play the game to…y’know, play the game.
karthrag_inak wrote: »Khajiit is GM of trading guild on NA PC, and has been for a few years now. Some observations:
There's nothing sellable in the game that players cannot acquire for themselves (aside from some tiny amount of exceedingly rare items that have been rendered obsolete due to game changes like Lire/Jaeda runes). What folks are paying for when they purchase from a guild trader is convenience.
Unfortunately, a relatively small portion of the population realized that there was really no immediate penalty for greed, for charging whatever they wanted for this convenience, and so certain items, such as certain materials, experienced over the years a massive, but ultimately undeserved, explosion in price. For example, platinum dust was never 20x rarer than rubedite ore, and yet that was pricing.
Khajiit says "immediate" penalty because there was a long-term consequence that is now being felt. Buyers were trained to not be lazy but rather self-sufficient by the rampant greed of a relatively small fraction of the community, and now, when prices have, by necessity come down to match the shorter allowed listing time, the consumers consume no longer.
The listing duration change introduced a motivation for sellers to be less greedy, but there is currently no reason for consumers to become lazy again.
It is just desserts for some, but unfortunately the rest of us are also being served.
On the bright side, trader bids have come down nicely.
I'm sure I sound like everyone's broken record but the games economy is in a really bad way. Sale have flat-lined, commodity prices are about 1/4 of what they were a year ago and still in free-fall. there just isnt much of a incentive to buy or sell. This has now been a problem for months and the games economy feels like it is at the breaking point. At this point ZOS needs to add some new mechanisms to stimulate it, such as a massive new resource sink. the fact is that previously much of the economy was due to a increasing player base and that is just not sustainable. This is something that really needs to be fixed by year end or many trading guilds are gonna suffer as will people trying to sell stuff. To be honest any other suggestions that would work would be good.
AngryPenguin wrote: »
Guilds have never gone extinct as fast as they are dying off now days.
DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Low prices are a good thing. Please stop with the posts complaining about an objectively better economy.
Agreed. Stuff is actually affordable for the first time in a long time for those of us who don’t play the trader end game 24/7. This situation puts housing enthusiasts and flippers at a disadvantage, for sure, but it’s better for the game’s population as a whole. It’s nice to actually be able to buy gold mats for a build without completely depleting my coffers for a change. It lets me spend more time doing what I want to do (PVP) and less time doing what I can’t stand (farming).