ZOS please work on the in game economy

I_killed_Vivec · August 19

Aurielle wrote: »

It’s great to be able to buy things for a change without feeling forced to grind for the items yourself.

While others are "forced to grind for the items" to sell them to you at the price you want?

Something, something... freeloader

Of course they aren't forced, and if there is no value in the market then they won't.

And then you will be "forced to grind for the items yourself" rather than have your skivvies do it for you.

spartaxoxo · August 19

If one seller doesn't want to sell the item, another will take their place. Buyers aren't freeloaders, they are paying a price for the service. Sellers will always want the highest price. Buyers the lowest. And they'll meet somewhere in between and that's how a healthy free market works.

Drammanoth · August 19

Ask yourself the following:
1) what would you like ZOS to do with the economy?
2) would you REALY want ZOS to do it, given the history of... you know.

AngryPenguin · August 19

Drammanoth wrote: »

Ask yourself the following:
1) what would you like ZOS to do with the economy?
2) would you REALY want ZOS to do it, given the history of... you know.

First step, revert the 14 day listing limitation in guild traders.

alpha_synuclein · August 19

Aurielle wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Players are enjoying reasonable prices for the first time in a long time — we’re not about to give that up if traders get greedy again.

Can we please stop framing the current economy discussions as if all who are not all happy about what is going on are some greedy billionaires with shady motivations?

Most of the folks that are involved in trading trade not to rise prices to oblivion, but simply to sustain themselves. Some of them are not in a great place now and it will take them some time to adjust. We are going through quite volatile times and it's not surprising that there are concerns.

And there is one thing from the rl economy that does apply here. The insanely rich will stay insanely rich. As always. So let's stop barking at the middleman

What does “sustaining” oneself in this game look like, gold-wise? I’m genuinely curious. I currently only have 3 million gold to my name on PC NA, as I went on a little shopping spree recently (bought a Torte recipe and golded out some more sets for comp builds in a PVP guild I run with). I have seven characters that I play regularly, and they all have more than enough potions, food, etc for the content I run with them. I’m not concerned about my game wealth whatsoever. There’s literally nothing I need to buy right now and for the foreseeable future. 3 million gold is chump change compared to what the average trader has in their coffers,so I’m having a really hard time understanding how the current economy is unsustainable. What are you buying that’s eating through your gold faster than you can recoup it?

Obviously, the number will be different for different people.
I never said that the current economy is unsustainable. What I was trying to point out is that most players are not traders that are "playing the economy" as their main game. Most trade from need not from greed. Prices are changing quite significantly now, and the changed in prices of things we buy are not always in line to what we're are selling. So it's not a surprise that people panic a bit... Not everyone will adjust right away, there will be concerns. And those who are concerned are not necessarily ill-motivated.

Personally I am doing fine. I'm enjoying cheap(-ish) columbine like the next person
My spendings are mostly consumables and upgrade mats, but I have enough gold to last me for long time, even if I cease to trade completely. But I understand that this might not be the case for many. And that is what we need a bit more of. Understanding to those that are in transition.

You stated:

Most of the folks that are involved in trading trade not to rise prices to oblivion, but simply to sustain themselves.

How does this not imply that the economy is somehow “unsustainable” for those who are up in arms over the fact that prices have dropped and are still dropping? I can empathize with their concerns, but only to an extent. We have people here saying that they’re trashing rare items that aren’t selling at their listed price, which is a bit of an overreaction, IMO.

Anything anyone lists on a guild trader will sell if it’s a desired item that is priced well. People panicking about having listings returned to them simply need to re-evaluate their trading practices, before demanding in multiple knee jerk-reaction threads on the forums that ZOS needs to step in and do something. They’re either selling items no one wants anymore, or they’re still listing them for prices that are too high for what other players are willing to spend now. A bit of resiliency and willingness to make adjustments is needed here.

I’d be willing to bet that a major reason why people are so upset is because it’s a bit harder for them to buy Crown Store items now without spending real money. I see that the gold to Crown ratio is starting to drop as well, though, so hopefully the panic will settle down soon and we won’t have to keep reading about how the sky is falling due to fairly priced items in guild stores.

I don't think I understand the confusion. I was referring to players motivation, not the feature of the economy. You have mentioned traders greed multiple times in response to concerns raised in this thread. What I was trying to point out (clearly unsuccesfully...) is that most players do not trade to make as much gold as possible (aka out of greed) but to make enough to afford stuff that they want (aka to sustain).
The only thing I am opposing here is putting everyone in one "oh, you don't like low prices, you have to be greedy ****" bag.

Every economy can be sustainable, as long as you are willing to adjust your strategies and expectations. Current changes will require a lot of adjustments from players used to how things were before. Knee jerk reactions are natural (although I would be careful with that particular expression ).

As for buying crown store stuff for gold, I have never participated in that aspect of the market, but considering how stupidly overpriced crown items are, I won't blame anyone for getting upset here...

Trader greed IS a large part of the public outcry here, though. A number of the players here openly decrying the drop in prices have admitted to trading being their primary activity in game. I suspect they enjoyed seeing the numbers going up and up and up — much like those of us who DPS enjoy seeing our numbers going up and up and up — without caring about the impact this was having on the vast majority of the playerbase, and without appreciating the fact that economic bubbles do tend to burst.

Well, let's agree to disagree then

Aurielle · August 19

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

derkaiserliche wrote: »

The 14 day change impacts a lot imo.

Many people hate to get tons of items back into their inventory after wasting gold for trying to sell them in the guild stores.

The result: They put them up at the low ttc price range and ttc average will drop. The next player will put them at an even lower price and so the downfall continues.

If the item didn’t sell by day 13, it likely also wouldn’t sell by day 29. Were that many people seriously letting items sit in their trader slots for 30 days? That’s wasted revenue opportunity, IMO. If something I’ve listed hasn’t sold in a week, I know I’ve listed it too high or that the item simply isn’t in demand. I cancel the listing and post something that will actually sell, and make way more gold than I would have if I just let the item take up that slot for 30 days.

This is absolutely not the case for the high value items that cost over 1 million gold because they are so rare or hard to get.

I find it very curious that high value items priced well beyond most players’ means apparently sell when they’re listed for 30 days, and don’t when they’re listed for 14 days. Do the whales only log on once per month? If so, how are they sustaining their wealth?

AngryPenguin · August 19

Aurielle wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

derkaiserliche wrote: »

The 14 day change impacts a lot imo.

Many people hate to get tons of items back into their inventory after wasting gold for trying to sell them in the guild stores.

The result: They put them up at the low ttc price range and ttc average will drop. The next player will put them at an even lower price and so the downfall continues.

If the item didn’t sell by day 13, it likely also wouldn’t sell by day 29. Were that many people seriously letting items sit in their trader slots for 30 days? That’s wasted revenue opportunity, IMO. If something I’ve listed hasn’t sold in a week, I know I’ve listed it too high or that the item simply isn’t in demand. I cancel the listing and post something that will actually sell, and make way more gold than I would have if I just let the item take up that slot for 30 days.

This is absolutely not the case for the high value items that cost over 1 million gold because they are so rare or hard to get.

I find it very curious that high value items priced well beyond most players’ means apparently sell when they’re listed for 30 days, and don’t when they’re listed for 14 days. Do the whales only log on once per month? If so, how are they sustaining their wealth?

The whales aren't the players buying the high value items, they're the ones listing the high value items, in the majority of cases anyway. The reason it takes longer to sell an item that values at over 1 million gold is self explanatory.

What happens when the whales stop playing and listing all these mats and items the lower level players need in guild stores? That is what we are seeing in the market now. People are abandoning the guild trading system en masse now days and the result will be very bad for the long term health of ESO.

Aurielle · August 19

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

It’s great to be able to buy things for a change without feeling forced to grind for the items yourself.

While others are "forced to grind for the items" to sell them to you at the price you want?

Something, something... freeloader

Of course they aren't forced, and if there is no value in the market then they won't.

And then you will be "forced to grind for the items yourself" rather than have your skivvies do it for you.

Some people enjoy farming. Many of us don’t. We’re not “freeloaders” because we don’t want to spend 400k gold to upgrade a single piece of equipment. I’m quite happy to give other players gold if they’re willing to spend their game time farming mats — but not at the ridiculous prices so many were asking for in the very recent past.

spartaxoxo · August 19

Aurielle wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

derkaiserliche wrote: »

The 14 day change impacts a lot imo.

Many people hate to get tons of items back into their inventory after wasting gold for trying to sell them in the guild stores.

The result: They put them up at the low ttc price range and ttc average will drop. The next player will put them at an even lower price and so the downfall continues.

If the item didn’t sell by day 13, it likely also wouldn’t sell by day 29. Were that many people seriously letting items sit in their trader slots for 30 days? That’s wasted revenue opportunity, IMO. If something I’ve listed hasn’t sold in a week, I know I’ve listed it too high or that the item simply isn’t in demand. I cancel the listing and post something that will actually sell, and make way more gold than I would have if I just let the item take up that slot for 30 days.

This is absolutely not the case for the high value items that cost over 1 million gold because they are so rare or hard to get.

I find it very curious that high value items priced well beyond most players’ means apparently sell when they’re listed for 30 days, and don’t when they’re listed for 14 days. Do the whales only log on once per month? If so, how are they sustaining their wealth?

It's usually took a couple of 30 day cycles to sell such items. So, in a 60 day cycle you paid for a single relist. You pay 3 times for that same timeframe now.

Initial list - 30 days later relist - sold on day 60 before it expired.

Initial list - 2 weeks relist - end of 30 days relist again- two weeks later relist again - sold on day 60 before it expired.

The longer the term it needs to sell, the worse the relist hits you.

Ofc if it needs longer than that you've probably listed too high.

agelonestar · August 19

Prices go up.

Prices go down.

I suspect the issue right now is a combination of multiple in-game events flooding the market, very little in the way of combat changes (so little reason to buy mats to chase a meta), and a low game population.

I can confidently predict that prices will go up again. I just can't predict from what low point

sarahthes · August 19

Gabriel_H wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

This is incorrect. I ran a social guild with a trader on the side (it made about 50-200K gold in taxes each week) and now that things don't sell for as high of a price, I have burned thru my entire gold reserve and can no longer afford the trader.

If things are not selling for a high price in general, how are other guilds outbidding you? Surely the drop in your revenue would be proportional to other guilds drop in their revenue, all things being equal?

I make about 2 mill gold a week now. My trader costs 7.

The price crash doesn't only affect big guilds...

Stafford197 · August 19

Aurielle wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

derkaiserliche wrote: »

The 14 day change impacts a lot imo.

Many people hate to get tons of items back into their inventory after wasting gold for trying to sell them in the guild stores.

The result: They put them up at the low ttc price range and ttc average will drop. The next player will put them at an even lower price and so the downfall continues.

If the item didn’t sell by day 13, it likely also wouldn’t sell by day 29. Were that many people seriously letting items sit in their trader slots for 30 days? That’s wasted revenue opportunity, IMO. If something I’ve listed hasn’t sold in a week, I know I’ve listed it too high or that the item simply isn’t in demand. I cancel the listing and post something that will actually sell, and make way more gold than I would have if I just let the item take up that slot for 30 days.

This is absolutely not the case for the high value items that cost over 1 million gold because they are so rare or hard to get.

I find it very curious that high value items priced well beyond most players’ means apparently sell when they’re listed for 30 days, and don’t when they’re listed for 14 days. Do the whales only log on once per month? If so, how are they sustaining their wealth?

Whales? No, rare collectables struggle to sell when a game is doing poorly.

Many cool items are old and/or recurring drops, so most players who want them have already collected them. There’s also fewer new players coming up who would’ve been potential buyers due to this game falling off. Most people are also apprehensive about spending large sums of currency and will wait before purchasing, which conflicts greatly with the 14-day listing timer change. That’s it… rare collectables just take time to sell due to each of these factors playing role, unless you sell a new item on day one.

I play on console which has a totally different economy from PC. I’ve never done much trading (mostly just to sell motifs/style pages I get from the content I run) but I quit the market entirely this patch because my interest in this game is just very low atm. And almost everyone I play with feels the same.

I’m not a whale. I quest and run dungeons and some trials, and then I sell motifs for 3-12k per. Sometimes I get a rare drop here or there. But apparently only whales can spend gold on that.

Congrats ZOS. This community is hostile and tearing itself to shreds over your bad decisions.

Ingenon · August 19

I'm not seeing the problem of nothing selling on guild traders where I play (PS/NA). I fill my 30 slots in a guild that offers a free trader, which is a great kindness! I sell what I pick up from doing PvE activities like Gold Road dailies, Infinite Archive daily, guild trials, doing treasure maps, etc. Since I'm on console, I set prices based on what I see other folks listing similar items on a handful of nearby guild traders. No add-ons on console, so buying and selling on PS/NA is primitive.

Yesterday, most of the stuff I had listed (20+ items) sold over 24 hours. I'm fine with folks clearing out my inventory by buying the motifs, blueprints, recipes, zone set pieces, etc. that my grand master crafter alt already knows. I'm getting more gold selling on guild trader than I would get from selling them to a merchant.

I don't want ZOS to work on the in game economy. It seems to be working well enough from what I'm seeing on PS/NA.

EchoesofThunder · August 19

Hey, folks, just look at the in-game populations. ESO had 166k players on per day in the winter months, and is down to 14k per day in the summer. Of course demand will drop.

Stafford197 · August 19

EchoesofThunder wrote: »

Hey, folks, just look at the in-game populations. ESO had 166k players on per day in the winter months, and is down to 14k per day in the summer. Of course demand will drop.

Not sure if you have a typo, you may have meant 16k.

If this game had 166k players ZOS wouldnt be focusing their resources on a new AAA live service game right now

licenturion · August 19

Game economy is fine. I sell more and quicker than before actually.

I am however a smart sensible investor and changed my prices accordingly to the market prices on TTC and usually subtract 2 percent off that price so when I log on a few hours later almost all my stock has been sold out and I list more.

But if I would keep high unreasonable prices like before I probably also would sell 2 items in 10 days.

I have also completed my sticker book with the income I made and have my builds completed. I know many people are doing the same so most motifs or items won’t become super valuable anymore in short or longer term because those who wanted them, have them already. A lot of more casual players have become self sufficient enough now without needing those ‘trade brokers’. And it really seems to frustrate them going by all those posts the ‘poor guys’ don’t need the rich ones that much anymore.

Gabriel_H · August 19

Stafford197 wrote: »

If this game had 166k players ZOS wouldnt be focusing their resources on a new AAA live service game right now

There are about 3.5m players who regularly log on.

Stafford197 · August 19

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

If this game had 166k players ZOS wouldnt be focusing their resources on a new AAA live service game right now

There are about 3.5m players who regularly log on.

Source please.

Aurielle · August 19

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

derkaiserliche wrote: »

The 14 day change impacts a lot imo.

Many people hate to get tons of items back into their inventory after wasting gold for trying to sell them in the guild stores.

The result: They put them up at the low ttc price range and ttc average will drop. The next player will put them at an even lower price and so the downfall continues.

If the item didn’t sell by day 13, it likely also wouldn’t sell by day 29. Were that many people seriously letting items sit in their trader slots for 30 days? That’s wasted revenue opportunity, IMO. If something I’ve listed hasn’t sold in a week, I know I’ve listed it too high or that the item simply isn’t in demand. I cancel the listing and post something that will actually sell, and make way more gold than I would have if I just let the item take up that slot for 30 days.

This is absolutely not the case for the high value items that cost over 1 million gold because they are so rare or hard to get.

I find it very curious that high value items priced well beyond most players’ means apparently sell when they’re listed for 30 days, and don’t when they’re listed for 14 days. Do the whales only log on once per month? If so, how are they sustaining their wealth?

It's usually took a couple of 30 day cycles to sell such items. So, in a 60 day cycle you paid for a single relist. You pay 3 times for that same timeframe now.

Initial list - 30 days later relist - sold on day 60 before it expired.

Initial list - 2 weeks relist - end of 30 days relist again- two weeks later relist again - sold on day 60 before it expired.

The longer the term it needs to sell, the worse the relist hits you.

Ofc if it needs longer than that you've probably listed too high.

Then my original point still stands. I said that if an item didn’t sell in 14 days, it likely wouldn’t sell in 30 days.

If it took several relistings to sell certain multi-million gold items before the listing duration change, that’s a pretty clear indicator that those items were priced well out of the means of most players. Having to rely on just ONE special person (a) with enough gold to spend on rare items and (b) desire for the rare item you’re selling to come across your listing after 60 days or more just doesn’t seem like the best use of that trading slot. You could make much more gold selling cheaper, more desirable items via that slot multiple times every day.

Seems to me like the better strategy might be to hold on to the item and advertise periodically in Craglorn or other places where players might seek to purchase rare items. No listing fees, no relisting fees — just a face to face transaction in which you profit fully.

Gabriel_H · August 19

Stafford197 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

If this game had 166k players ZOS wouldnt be focusing their resources on a new AAA live service game right now

There are about 3.5m players who regularly log on.

Source please.

https://activeplayer.io/elder-scrolls-online/

Stafford197 · August 19

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

If this game had 166k players ZOS wouldnt be focusing their resources on a new AAA live service game right now

There are about 3.5m players who regularly log on.

Source please.

https://activeplayer.io/elder-scrolls-online/

I make a living off of Data Analysis, but even without that background this is a terrible source.

1. Your source is full of grammar mistakes and outdated information about the game itself, just like any scam site. It’s a fully automated article where blanks are filled in based on a handful of criteria. Also, it only aggregates data. It does not collect any unique data on its own.

So how does it your source figure out these player populations?

2. The page itself has no source for its numbers! There are no direct sources for their data. #1 possible red flag with any data is a lack of transparency.

I had to go out of my way to find a separate page on their website where they list four different websites which the site owner and “his team” claim to use. One site is Steam, which we can use to view trends. The other three are random sites that seem to sell big data to companies in order to project future earnings reports as of right now. One of those sites hasn’t even existed for 3 years…. Pretty reliable right?

3. If you don’t believe anything I’m saying, I just copied pasted this text from the source you sent me:
“ESO has monthly active players of 3,343,652 and around 150,000 to 200,000 daily active players. Concurrent players of around 4,988 players. These numbers are just estimated data base on public releases.”

So only 5K players are averaged to be online at a time out of 200K players? Even Steam, which shows their logged data for PC Players using the Steam client, always has more concurrent players than that.

Not trying to be rude but you need to find better sources. I’ll just tell you, no one knows the populations for ESO, which is why we only speak generally about it. The only real information we have are Population Trends (not total player counts!) through Steam. Nothing else. All sites that attempt to predict it are incorrect, especially when their “player counts” are just from using an obscure formula to aggregate out-of-context data that is pulled from other wrong sources.

darvaria · August 19

The big 100M plus trader market are the ones that are suffering. I do understand some smaller trade guilds are having problems with trader spots. Trade guilds just need to pay less. I have some questions about those players that want to corner the market on certain items and make 20M plus gold every week. What exactly are they doing with that much gold? I've personally known 2 that made 20M plus almost every week, and they did not personally use that gold ... so put the pieces together.

Maybe it's a good thing the market is down.

Gabriel_H · August 19

Stafford197 wrote: »

TLDR

Steam only users, which is tracked by steam, shows ~12,000 average players a day. You make a living off Data Analysis, me too. Extrapolate. Hint, divide by 0.20.

Ph1p · August 19

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

If this game had 166k players ZOS wouldnt be focusing their resources on a new AAA live service game right now

There are about 3.5m players who regularly log on.

Source please.

https://activeplayer.io/elder-scrolls-online/

Sorry but this site is absolutely useless: It states that EVE Online has 4'598 players right now. However, that game publishes actual user statistics, which tell you that their main server currently has 26'479 players. So activeplayer.io doesn't use a primary data source, even when it's available, and is off by a factor of 5.75 ... Given how wrong it is with this super easy example, I wouldn't trust anything else on there.

wolfie1.0. · August 19

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

TLDR

Steam only users, which is tracked by steam, shows ~12,000 average players a day. You make a living off Data Analysis, me too. Extrapolate. Hint, divide by 0.20.

Steam reporting and tracking for games has been around long enough to be considered reliable and it's pretty much a known factor in how they get their information.

While I agree that steam charts shouldn't be used to account for player totals, simply because it's easier to go direct. Steam charts can help in spotting trends in player activities within games. It's pretty much like taking a sample of the population. Steam charts can be verified.

As for third party sites. We'll unless they are very very clear about how they source, formulate and interpret their data.... it's unreliable and should not be considered until verified.

Any good statistician and/or data analyst knows not only that statistics can be messed with, but that it's part of how it all works.

spartaxoxo · August 19

Aurielle wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

derkaiserliche wrote: »

The 14 day change impacts a lot imo.

Many people hate to get tons of items back into their inventory after wasting gold for trying to sell them in the guild stores.

The result: They put them up at the low ttc price range and ttc average will drop. The next player will put them at an even lower price and so the downfall continues.

If the item didn’t sell by day 13, it likely also wouldn’t sell by day 29. Were that many people seriously letting items sit in their trader slots for 30 days? That’s wasted revenue opportunity, IMO. If something I’ve listed hasn’t sold in a week, I know I’ve listed it too high or that the item simply isn’t in demand. I cancel the listing and post something that will actually sell, and make way more gold than I would have if I just let the item take up that slot for 30 days.

This is absolutely not the case for the high value items that cost over 1 million gold because they are so rare or hard to get.

I find it very curious that high value items priced well beyond most players’ means apparently sell when they’re listed for 30 days, and don’t when they’re listed for 14 days. Do the whales only log on once per month? If so, how are they sustaining their wealth?

It's usually took a couple of 30 day cycles to sell such items. So, in a 60 day cycle you paid for a single relist. You pay 3 times for that same timeframe now.

Initial list - 30 days later relist - sold on day 60 before it expired.

Initial list - 2 weeks relist - end of 30 days relist again- two weeks later relist again - sold on day 60 before it expired.

The longer the term it needs to sell, the worse the relist hits you.

Ofc if it needs longer than that you've probably listed too high.

Then my original point still stands. I said that if an item didn’t sell in 14 days, it likely wouldn’t sell in 30 days.

If it took several relistings to sell certain multi-million gold items before the listing duration change, that’s a pretty clear indicator that those items were priced well out of the means of most players. Having to rely on just ONE special person (a) with enough gold to spend on rare items and (b) desire for the rare item you’re selling to come across your listing after 60 days or more just doesn’t seem like the best use of that trading slot. You could make much more gold selling cheaper, more desirable items via that slot multiple times every day.

Seems to me like the better strategy might be to hold on to the item and advertise periodically in Craglorn or other places where players might seek to purchase rare items. No listing fees, no relisting fees — just a face to face transaction in which you profit fully.

That works even worse. It's a luxury item, so ofc the demand is small. Still best way to sell it is a trader in a major location

alpha_synuclein · August 20

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

derkaiserliche wrote: »

The 14 day change impacts a lot imo.

Many people hate to get tons of items back into their inventory after wasting gold for trying to sell them in the guild stores.

The result: They put them up at the low ttc price range and ttc average will drop. The next player will put them at an even lower price and so the downfall continues.

If the item didn’t sell by day 13, it likely also wouldn’t sell by day 29. Were that many people seriously letting items sit in their trader slots for 30 days? That’s wasted revenue opportunity, IMO. If something I’ve listed hasn’t sold in a week, I know I’ve listed it too high or that the item simply isn’t in demand. I cancel the listing and post something that will actually sell, and make way more gold than I would have if I just let the item take up that slot for 30 days.

This is absolutely not the case for the high value items that cost over 1 million gold because they are so rare or hard to get.

I find it very curious that high value items priced well beyond most players’ means apparently sell when they’re listed for 30 days, and don’t when they’re listed for 14 days. Do the whales only log on once per month? If so, how are they sustaining their wealth?

It's usually took a couple of 30 day cycles to sell such items. So, in a 60 day cycle you paid for a single relist. You pay 3 times for that same timeframe now.

Initial list - 30 days later relist - sold on day 60 before it expired.

Initial list - 2 weeks relist - end of 30 days relist again- two weeks later relist again - sold on day 60 before it expired.

The longer the term it needs to sell, the worse the relist hits you.

Ofc if it needs longer than that you've probably listed too high.

Then my original point still stands. I said that if an item didn’t sell in 14 days, it likely wouldn’t sell in 30 days.

If it took several relistings to sell certain multi-million gold items before the listing duration change, that’s a pretty clear indicator that those items were priced well out of the means of most players. Having to rely on just ONE special person (a) with enough gold to spend on rare items and (b) desire for the rare item you’re selling to come across your listing after 60 days or more just doesn’t seem like the best use of that trading slot. You could make much more gold selling cheaper, more desirable items via that slot multiple times every day.

Seems to me like the better strategy might be to hold on to the item and advertise periodically in Craglorn or other places where players might seek to purchase rare items. No listing fees, no relisting fees — just a face to face transaction in which you profit fully.

That works even worse. It's a luxury item, so ofc the demand is small. Still best way to sell it is a trader in a major location

This. Not all merchandise works the same way. There are differences between selling stacks of crafting materials versus something like rare furnishing plan. It's like comparing art gallery with a grocery store.

I_killed_Vivec · August 20

Aurielle wrote: »

If it took several relistings to sell certain multi-million gold items before the listing duration change, that’s a pretty clear indicator that those items were priced well out of the means of most players.

Indeed, but remember you're talking about multi-million g items. These are exceptionally rare, of course they don't sell every day, not everyone wants them or can afford them. That doesn't diminish their "value" - as based on what someone will pay for them.

I can't afford a Ferrari, but I do know they sell - and I don't get a say in the price

Aurielle wrote: »

Having to rely on just ONE special person (a) with enough gold to spend on rare items and (b) desire for the rare item you’re selling to come across your listing after 60 days or more just doesn’t seem like the best use of that trading slot. You could make much more gold selling cheaper, more desirable items via that slot multiple times every day.

"seem" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. Say you sell an item after 60 days for 3m. If you didn't list it but instead listed a series of objects selling at 3k each then you'd need to sell a thousand to break even, let alone "make much more gold". 15 a day, call it one an hour if you are playing for 15 hours a day - that might be difficult to sustain over 60 days, and you only break even.

But there are other considerations:

- This is just one 3m gold object, because they are rare you won't be filling all 30 slots with them. You'll probably only have a few at a time, the other slots can be used to "make much more gold selling cheaper, more desirable items". One slot devoted to a 3m item won't hurt, and as we have seen, when it does sell it will provide you with more than your cheaper items bring in over the same period (and with much less effort).

- How else are you going to sell these super rare items? And how are people going to find them? Oh yes...

Aurielle wrote: »

Seems to me like the better strategy might be to hold on to the item and advertise periodically in Craglorn or other places where players might seek to purchase rare items. No listing fees, no relisting fees — just a face to face transaction in which you profit fully.

Spam chat in Craglorn? That will make you popular!

It is difficult to see how having to "rely on just ONE special person (a) with enough gold to spend on rare items and (b) desire for the rare item you’re selling" and (c) just happens to be in Craglorn looking through chat for that item at the same time you're there, is better than using one slot in a trader and passively having the item on sale all the time at a place a buyer might reasonably expect to find what they want, while you get on with what you want to do (oooo... maybe not even in Craglorn...).

Which, of course, is the whole point of having a trader

wolfie1.0. · August 20

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

If it took several relistings to sell certain multi-million gold items before the listing duration change, that’s a pretty clear indicator that those items were priced well out of the means of most players.

Indeed, but remember you're talking about multi-million g items. These are exceptionally rare, of course they don't sell every day, not everyone wants them or can afford them. That doesn't diminish their "value" - as based on what someone will pay for them.

I can't afford a Ferrari, but I do know they sell - and I don't get a say in the price

Aurielle wrote: »

Having to rely on just ONE special person (a) with enough gold to spend on rare items and (b) desire for the rare item you’re selling to come across your listing after 60 days or more just doesn’t seem like the best use of that trading slot. You could make much more gold selling cheaper, more desirable items via that slot multiple times every day.

"seem" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. Say you sell an item after 60 days for 3m. If you didn't list it but instead listed a series of objects selling at 3k each then you'd need to sell a thousand to break even, let alone "make much more gold". 15 a day, call it one an hour if you are playing for 15 hours a day - that might be difficult to sustain over 60 days, and you only break even.

But there are other considerations:

- This is just one 3m gold object, because they are rare you won't be filling all 30 slots with them. You'll probably only have a few at a time, the other slots can be used to "make much more gold selling cheaper, more desirable items". One slot devoted to a 3m item won't hurt, and as we have seen, when it does sell it will provide you with more than your cheaper items bring in over the same period (and with much less effort).

- How else are you going to sell these super rare items? And how are people going to find them? Oh yes...

Aurielle wrote: »

Seems to me like the better strategy might be to hold on to the item and advertise periodically in Craglorn or other places where players might seek to purchase rare items. No listing fees, no relisting fees — just a face to face transaction in which you profit fully.

Spam chat in Craglorn? That will make you popular!

It is difficult to see how having to "rely on just ONE special person (a) with enough gold to spend on rare items and (b) desire for the rare item you’re selling" and (c) just happens to be in Craglorn looking through chat for that item at the same time you're there, is better than using one slot in a trader and passively having the item on sale all the time at a place a buyer might reasonably expect to find what they want, while you get on with what you want to do (oooo... maybe not even in Craglorn...).

Which, of course, is the whole point of having a trader

You forgot d) has a serious offer and e) is not actively trying to scam you.

Aurielle · August 20

Fair points, all. The fact remains, however, that the economy in general is finally accessible to a majority of players for the first time in a very long time. I acknowledge that it’s more difficult for you to sell big ticket items now, but understand that asking ZOS to work on the economy because a tiny percentage of players finds it harder now to sell multimillion gold items to an even tinier percentage of players sounds… a little rich to those who were previously priced out of common goods (pun fully intended).