DenverRalphy wrote: »
Three players queued up for a dungeon, had to wait however long it took to get matched with a 4th from the random daily group finder, and now they're expected to kick one player only to have to wait what may be a long while to get matched again? Not to mention that the quest may well be botched.
Truly veteran players don't do dungeons with random groups for transmutes. They form a group before queuing or source transmutes in other ways.
SilverBride wrote: »
Of course truly veteran players do random groups for transmutes. It's the quickest, most efficient way to get them. I don't know anyone going for transmutes that makes a group first.
It's way more efficient to do the bare minimum for tier 1 rewards int he 30 day campaigns on all toons. It takes about half a day to do this for 20 toons. Each month, 1000 transmutes. I have probably 200 geodes with 50 transmutes each sitting on all my toons from doing this. Much more efficient than RNDs. You would have to do 100 RNDs to get those 1000 transmutes. Ouch.
Vet players also get transmutes without even thinking about them. From trials coffers, bgs, etc.
It's way more efficient to do the bare minimum for tier 1 rewards int he 30 day campaigns on all toons. It takes about half a day to do this for 20 toons. Each month, 1000 transmutes. I have probably 200 geodes with 50 transmutes each sitting on all my toons from doing this. Much more efficient than RNDs. You would have to do 100 RNDs to get those 1000 transmutes. Ouch.
Vet players also get transmutes without even thinking about them. From trials coffers, bgs, etc.
While it is more efficient to just do T1's for transmutes, what else are you going to do for the other 25-28 days of the month? I literally knocked out all my T1s in a weekend thanks to MYM; even without it's not much more than 30-45 minutes per toon. Caveat being I don't bother staying in PvP if it's a dead map on my home campaign.
Also, for some players, doing 100 randoms is much more enjoyable than 10 minutes of PvP, especially outside of MYM where the gains come slower.
If you kick someone, it doesn't break the group. The group 'leader' gets a prompt to find a replacement. The same thing happens if someone drops from the group. I've had a couple of runs where someone dropped at the beginning (usually the tank). Both times, we asked for a replacement and started running the dungeon. One time we got a replacement half-way through, the other time we got the tank at the last boss.
If a player is ruining the experience for the rest of the group, kick them. If the other players don't agree, they won't vote for it. It's a group decision.
We have very different ideas of what the word "carried" means then. If you feel this way, it's the system you want to blame, not the players.Then why don't they just solo it? Oh, I know... they NEED the rest of the team to start, in order to qualify for the daily 'Random Dungeon' rewards. In other words, they need to be carried.
I think this is stretching the comparison a bit here. Books don't give you vital equip drops or transmutes, or experience. I don't think you can expect people to always listen to all the NPCs every time they go in for another purpose, and because dungeons have multiple purposes, trying to complete a different one of those efficiently is not the same thing as having no appreciation for story. That's all the point was.DenverRalphy wrote: »
Probably not. But then too, I'd be smart enough not to pick up and open the book if I knew I wasn't going to read it. Nor would I just skip to the last page if someone else were reading it with me.
Responding to the whole conversation about this: I'd imagine most players would consider me a vet player (all trifectas apart from 2 trial and 2 dungeon, have done most PvP achievements including emp, high CP and so on...). I 100% definitely do dungeons in the random queue for transmutes.Truly veteran players don't do dungeons with random groups for transmutes. .
This. It's the main reason I keep coming back to the topic. Most would classify me as a speed runner, but I always try to be aware of group needs even if I don't stop and ask who needs things very often (I've found I get no answers). I always slow down if people say they have a quest to complete and always try to explain mechs if people are struggling to clear something. Yet based on the way some people react, everyone like me is a monster who ignores chat.I don't like the way "speed runners" are portrayed as bad people here.
I think this is stretching the comparison a bit here. Books don't give you vital equip drops or transmutes, or experience. I don't think you can expect people to always listen to all the NPCs every time they go in for another purpose, and because dungeons have multiple purposes, trying to complete a different one of those efficiently is not the same thing as having no appreciation for story. That's all the point was.
I disagree. From my experience, it seems about half and half in normal dungeons. Truly veteran players don't do dungeons with random groups for transmutes. They form a group before queuing or source transmutes in other ways.
20 seconds after the battle started, the three of us were beating mobs while the fourth one had already run up to the boss. It was the very beginning of the dungeon. You can reproduce it yourself in the crypt of hearts and you will understand what I'm talking about)
DenverRalphy wrote: »First, I'm not the one who created the comparison. I simply presented the counterpoint.
DenverRalphy wrote: »Second. The Normal version of the dungeon isn't the only source of those precious equipment drops, transmute crystals, and experience points you speak of. It's simply faster and thus more convenient. So should expedience and convenience trump common courtesy and respect? Should expedience and convenience determine the primary purpose of the dungeon run?
Who are you asking this of? I'm not championing people who act selfishly and I have said I stop if someone needs their quest. I've suggested what I can to try to help those having problems, and that's all I can do, so I'm the wrong person to try and argue this with. I don't have the power to change other people's behaviour.
valenwood_vegan wrote: »I really don't get the hostility being directed at people who tried to offer some advice / workarounds / tips regarding the questing problem.
I have advocated for the system to be changed. It is always met with hostility and incredulity.We have very different ideas of what the word "carried" means then. If you feel this way, it's the system you want to blame, not the players.
People need to accept that this is the system we have for dungeons. No matter what any one of us thinks is right or wrong, all any of us can do is find the least painful way to work within it, or ways to not engage with it. Anyone who doesn't like this situation can always try writing support tickets to ask them to reconsider or change things. I'd 100% support a quest mode for dungeons, but I can't see them ever doing it.
I have advocated for the system to be changed. It is always met with hostility and incredulity.
The carry issue became clear from you comment (bolded) above.
Speed running players do need the rest of the team to get their goals.
Your statement is just wrong.
No, we don't have to accept this, at all. It's already been accepted for way too long.
A quest mode for dungeons isn't the solution. Moving the transmute rewards somewhere else is.
No, we don't have to accept this, at all. It's already been accepted for way too long.
A quest mode for dungeons isn't the solution. Moving the transmute rewards somewhere else is.
Moving the "transmute reward somewhere else" won't help - it will just change the nature of the forum complaint threads to "queues are empty/stuck".
Expecting randoms to 'play the way you want' - and this is really what these threads are all about: expecting others to play the way 'YOU' want while disregarding their playstyle(s) - is naive at best.
The singular solution has been illustrated by many in this and other similar threads: pre-form a group with like-minded individuals if you prefer to play any particular style while enjoying the random dungeon bonuses.
No, we don't have to accept this, at all. It's already been accepted for way too long.
A quest mode for dungeons isn't the solution. Moving the transmute rewards somewhere else is.
I think players go to dungeons just to run them, but not for a compelling story and it's sad.
I have advocated for the system to be changed. It is always met with hostility and incredulity.
The carry issue became clear from you comment (bolded) above.
Speed running players do need the rest of the team to get their goals.
Your statement is just wrong.