Another Well Known Trading Guild Basically bites the Dust

I_killed_Vivec · August 2

code65536 wrote: »

Unless a guild loses a bid, there is no way for them to know that they can no longer afford their spot.

All bids are secret, even after everything is done.

If a guild bids 10 million for a spot every single week and wins every single week, that doesn't mean that 10 million is what they need to keep bidding. It might be that the next highest bid is only 1 million and the guild could be winning using only 2 million bids. Or maybe there are no competing bids at all and the guild is basically flushing 10 million gold down the drain every week. Nobody has access to this information.

Two things:

- Guilds do very often lose bids, so they really do know what they need to bid to be sure of getting that place back.

- If they do happen to miscalculate and bid way over the odds then not only does this set the bar for would-be contenders (if your 1m bid failed then maybe try 2? 3? 5?...), but it also maximises the gold sink, thus reducing inflation. What you call "flushing 10 million down the drain" is precisely what the system is intended to provide.

A third thing, because everybody likes a bit extra for free

- It's not just that prices are cratering, sales are dropping across the board. This might be because everybody already has everything (all the events, farming for ink... all the reasons have been provided already), but that implies there are very few new players.

And to me this is the biggest concern - what if the crash in the economy is indicative of a greater malaise within the game? Gold Road was less than inspiring, and there will be no new questing content for a year. The tenth anniversary is a flop (I consider it to be on-going, why wouldn't you want the party to go on for the whole year?). Scribing is an unwelcome grind (though if we're honest we always knew it would be).

This should have been the biggest, bestest year but the only lasting memory of the tenth anniversary will be that we were sold short with Gold Road.

JAZZKa · August 2

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand how a guild "bites the dust" because they can't afford to bid on a specific guild kiosk due to the changes enacted by the evil ZoS empire.

There's no set minimum cost for the bid. If another guild can out-bid them for the spot, then why are they too not affected by the market changes that the evil ZoS has implemented? Any changes to the market aren't locking in and targeting the bigger trading guilds. The changes are universal.

Because at the top of trading there are guilds which use real money to buy crowns, to sell them for gold in order to outbid guilds that solely rely on sells. And yes, it costs a lot of real money, yes they do it every week, and yes, people really are that stupid.

sarahthes · August 2

JAZZKa wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand how a guild "bites the dust" because they can't afford to bid on a specific guild kiosk due to the changes enacted by the evil ZoS empire.

There's no set minimum cost for the bid. If another guild can out-bid them for the spot, then why are they too not affected by the market changes that the evil ZoS has implemented? Any changes to the market aren't locking in and targeting the bigger trading guilds. The changes are universal.

Because at the top of trading there are guilds which use real money to buy crowns, to sell them for gold in order to outbid guilds that solely rely on sells. And yes, it costs a lot of real money, yes they do it every week, and yes, people really are that stupid.

The price of crowns has already dropped on PC NA from 2500:1 to 1700:1 (lowest price I've seen). This strategy is unlikely to work in the long or even medium term.

EdjeSwift · August 2

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

And to me this is the biggest concern - what if the crash in the economy is indicative of a greater malaise within the game? Gold Road was less than inspiring, and there will be no new questing content for a year. The tenth anniversary is a flop (I consider it to be on-going, why wouldn't you want the party to go on for the whole year?). Scribing is an unwelcome grind (though if we're honest we always knew it would be).

This should have been the biggest, bestest year but the only lasting memory of the tenth anniversary will be that we were sold short with Gold Road.

I think it's less malaise and more of the fact that there isn't anything new to sell/cater to.

The new BoE sets are here: https://eso-hub.com/en/zones/west-weald and of them Macabre Vintage might be fun but not really worth putting in much effort into when other sets are out there so that market didn't flourish.

The trial sets were/are niche from what I've read so no need for mats to replace your current trial gear.

No new class to sell the new players on gear and convince them to get the new hotness a la Deadly for Arcanist last year.

One new style set from the chapter currently and limited furnishing plans.

This is all ingredients for an economic standstill/downturn. U43 MAY help with new furnishing plans and such so we'll see how that goes, but I'm not holding my breath.

DenverRalphy · August 2

JAZZKa wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand how a guild "bites the dust" because they can't afford to bid on a specific guild kiosk due to the changes enacted by the evil ZoS empire.

There's no set minimum cost for the bid. If another guild can out-bid them for the spot, then why are they too not affected by the market changes that the evil ZoS has implemented? Any changes to the market aren't locking in and targeting the bigger trading guilds. The changes are universal.

Because at the top of trading there are guilds which use real money to buy crowns, to sell them for gold in order to outbid guilds that solely rely on sells. And yes, it costs a lot of real money, yes they do it every week, and yes, people really are that stupid.

And if that's the case, how could top trading guilds "bite the dust" due to the recent changes implemented which are supposedly destroying the economy? Because if what you're saying is true, then it really doesn't matter one way or another how the economy is doing if they're using real money to fund it.

I_killed_Vivec · August 2

EdjeSwift wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

And to me this is the biggest concern - what if the crash in the economy is indicative of a greater malaise within the game? Gold Road was less than inspiring, and there will be no new questing content for a year. The tenth anniversary is a flop (I consider it to be on-going, why wouldn't you want the party to go on for the whole year?). Scribing is an unwelcome grind (though if we're honest we always knew it would be).

This should have been the biggest, bestest year but the only lasting memory of the tenth anniversary will be that we were sold short with Gold Road.

I think it's less malaise and more of the fact that there isn't anything new to sell/cater to.

My point is that that only applies if you've been playing for a while. If you are a new player and started with Gold Road then everything is new and of value.

The implication being that there aren't many new players, which is the malaise I referred to.

hiyde · August 2

JAZZKa wrote: »

Because at the top of trading there are guilds which use real money to buy crowns, to sell them for gold in order to outbid guilds that solely rely on sells. And yes, it costs a lot of real money, yes they do it every week, and yes, people really are that stupid.

There are "top" trading guilds spending hundreds of dollars, every week, to fund their bids? Call me skeptical.

EdjeSwift · August 2

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

My point is that that only applies if you've been playing for a while. If you are a new player and started with Gold Road then everything is new and of value.

The implication being that there aren't many new players, which is the malaise I referred to.

Actual new players probably don't have the funds to really take advantage of participating in the trade market. An actual new player is probably trying to scrape enough gold via questing/vendor to buy their bag/bank upgrades. Without external help, new players shouldn't really be part of your sales strategy. I'd say the market that is catered to are the more casual middle of the road players who have the disposable gold income and builds in progress rather than new players and those casual players didn't really need anything from Gold Road outside of ink.

Highwayman · August 2

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Unless a guild loses a bid, there is no way for them to know that they can no longer afford their spot.

All bids are secret, even after everything is done.

If a guild bids 10 million for a spot every single week and wins every single week, that doesn't mean that 10 million is what they need to keep bidding. It might be that the next highest bid is only 1 million and the guild could be winning using only 2 million bids. Or maybe there are no competing bids at all and the guild is basically flushing 10 million gold down the drain every week. Nobody has access to this information.

Two things:

- Guilds do very often lose bids, so they really do know what they need to bid to be sure of getting that place back.

- If they do happen to miscalculate and bid way over the odds then not only does this set the bar for would-be contenders (if your 1m bid failed then maybe try 2? 3? 5?...), but it also maximises the gold sink, thus reducing inflation. What you call "flushing 10 million down the drain" is precisely what the system is intended to provide.

A third thing, because everybody likes a bit extra for free

- It's not just that prices are cratering, sales are dropping across the board. This might be because everybody already has everything (all the events, farming for ink... all the reasons have been provided already), but that implies there are very few new players.

And to me this is the biggest concern - what if the crash in the economy is indicative of a greater malaise within the game? Gold Road was less than inspiring, and there will be no new questing content for a year. The tenth anniversary is a flop (I consider it to be on-going, why wouldn't you want the party to go on for the whole year?). Scribing is an unwelcome grind (though if we're honest we always knew it would be).

This should have been the biggest, bestest year but the only lasting memory of the tenth anniversary will be that we were sold short with Gold Road.

So here's how I see it. I think we all agree we are in a deflationary period. I do happen to believe this is market correction. People tend to spend less while the value of their money goes up. What we are seeing is expected. The worry would be that the less spending -> lower prices -> less spending can spiral out of control.

You bring up a good point I had not considered though. Price discovery on trader spots is extremely slow. Considering this would be the primary gold sink and the source of normal reduction in inflation, lack of transparency of trader pricing (while working to the benefit of everyone in inflationary periods) is likely hindering the speed at which correction is happening right now. Maybe even to the point to be concerned about a deflationary spiral if no action is taken.

Edit: ...and it's even slower in going down than up because the pressure to maintain a spot is going to work against it naturally correcting down.

LaintalAy · August 2

edited

I_killed_Vivec · August 2

EdjeSwift wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

My point is that that only applies if you've been playing for a while. If you are a new player and started with Gold Road then everything is new and of value.

The implication being that there aren't many new players, which is the malaise I referred to.

Actual new players probably don't have the funds to really take advantage of participating in the trade market. An actual new player is probably trying to scrape enough gold via questing/vendor to buy their bag/bank upgrades. Without external help, new players shouldn't really be part of your sales strategy. I'd say the market that is catered to are the more casual middle of the road players who have the disposable gold income and builds in progress rather than new players and those casual players didn't really need anything from Gold Road outside of ink.

I used to sell a lot of items cheaply that are used for progressing through crafting - gear with inspiration, low level recipes, entry level motifs, glyphs for deconstruction, etc. I get a lot from my crafters and I want to shift them so I sell cheap. So not only are new players part of my sales strategy I also want to provide a helping hand for new crafters (inspiration gear at 99g a pop, glyphs at 45, entry motifs at 50g, etc.).

These items are not selling like they used to.

Flowers, however, are selling - just at a big mark down.

So I see plenty of established players who just want a better deal, and far fewer new players looking to start crafting. Purely anecdotal of course, a sample of one, but it worries me.

TaSheen · August 2

CoronHR wrote: »

who on the gods' green nirn are the ankle biters?

PC NA guild, currently with a trader in Mournhold. I don't buy in Mournhold, prices too high. I shop Vivec if I need something for some reason. If I find it in my price range (which is NOT in the 100k gold area) I'll buy it. If not, I'll do without it.

fall0athboy · August 3

BlueRaven wrote: »

fall0athboy wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

fall0athboy wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

One of my All-Time Favorite Guilds Ankle Biters has put out a notice they are ceasing all Top Tier Raffles and giving up our Spot in Deshaan after Years of being a Staple to Local Buyers. The guild is not going out yet but will no longer Bid on Premium Spots. I was sad to see this upon logging in and checking my mail. Revenue has plummeted for the guild after the Changes made by Zos and the crumbling economy. Sad....

Okay, specifically what changes has ZOS made to "crumble the economy" and specifically how would you "save it"?

You do not know the changes? Read up then please. Many changes have taken place causing the economy to weaken... I am not complaining i have plenty of gold. It is just sad to see this taking place. there is another thread with tons of pages you can read up on it... I do not think there is a decline in players. I see folks everywhere. Best of luck.

I do not know the changes. Tell me them, specifically, please.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8133068/#Comment_8133068

Specifically what thing in Update 42 is causing the economy to weaken? I do not know the economy in this game, I do not know what specifically affected it. Why are you not giving me a straight answer here?

DenverRalphy · August 3

fall0athboy wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

fall0athboy wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

fall0athboy wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

One of my All-Time Favorite Guilds Ankle Biters has put out a notice they are ceasing all Top Tier Raffles and giving up our Spot in Deshaan after Years of being a Staple to Local Buyers. The guild is not going out yet but will no longer Bid on Premium Spots. I was sad to see this upon logging in and checking my mail. Revenue has plummeted for the guild after the Changes made by Zos and the crumbling economy. Sad....

Okay, specifically what changes has ZOS made to "crumble the economy" and specifically how would you "save it"?

You do not know the changes? Read up then please. Many changes have taken place causing the economy to weaken... I am not complaining i have plenty of gold. It is just sad to see this taking place. there is another thread with tons of pages you can read up on it... I do not think there is a decline in players. I see folks everywhere. Best of luck.

I do not know the changes. Tell me them, specifically, please.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8133068/#Comment_8133068

Specifically what thing in Update 42 is causing the economy to weaken? I do not know the economy in this game, I do not know what specifically affected it. Why are you not giving me a straight answer here?

Because he doesn't actually know. Despite what many would like to claiim, there haven't been any changes made to affect the economy. Some will say that shortening the listing time was part of it. But nope. It doesn't.

The only thing that has affected the economy is that ZoS has bombarded players with events that dump boatloads of resources into the game. That's it. So those people who rely on making gold by selling resources in the Guild Traders aren't making so much coinage anymore, and won't until it all subsides.

And it always does. Because despite what some players might misunderstand, nobody has mortages to pay in game, no energy bills that must be kept up to date, no assets that'll be revoked. Just the cost of time or resources to acrue the materials you need to make potions, craft/maintain your gear, etc.. And when the prices on the trader go down, so too does the cost of restocking/maintaining your pots/food/gear/eetc.. so it all balances out.

sarahthes · August 3

DenverRalphy wrote: »

fall0athboy wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

fall0athboy wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

fall0athboy wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

One of my All-Time Favorite Guilds Ankle Biters has put out a notice they are ceasing all Top Tier Raffles and giving up our Spot in Deshaan after Years of being a Staple to Local Buyers. The guild is not going out yet but will no longer Bid on Premium Spots. I was sad to see this upon logging in and checking my mail. Revenue has plummeted for the guild after the Changes made by Zos and the crumbling economy. Sad....

Okay, specifically what changes has ZOS made to "crumble the economy" and specifically how would you "save it"?

You do not know the changes? Read up then please. Many changes have taken place causing the economy to weaken... I am not complaining i have plenty of gold. It is just sad to see this taking place. there is another thread with tons of pages you can read up on it... I do not think there is a decline in players. I see folks everywhere. Best of luck.

I do not know the changes. Tell me them, specifically, please.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8133068/#Comment_8133068

Specifically what thing in Update 42 is causing the economy to weaken? I do not know the economy in this game, I do not know what specifically affected it. Why are you not giving me a straight answer here?

Because he doesn't actually know. Despite what many would like to claiim, there haven't been any changes made to affect the economy. Some will say that shortening the listing time was part of it. But nope. It doesn't.

The only thing that has affected the economy is that ZoS has bombarded players with events that dump boatloads of resources into the game. That's it. So those people who rely on making gold by selling resources in the Guild Traders aren't making so much coinage anymore, and won't until it all subsides.

And it always does. Because despite what some players might misunderstand, nobody has mortages to pay in game, no energy bills that must be kept up to date, no assets that'll be revoked. Just the cost of time or resources to acrue the materials you need to make potions, craft/maintain your gear, etc.. And when the prices on the trader go down, so too does the cost of restocking/maintaining your pots/food/gear/eetc.. so it all balances out.

I have also heard from some sketchier sources that a lot of gold sellers have been banned and their gold deleted. This represents a big loss of liquidity in the game. Certainly as someone who used to do a lot of carries, that market has dried up significantly, and it died well before (by a few months) the injection of vast amounts of materials into the economy.

AzuraFan · August 3

TaSheen wrote: »

PC NA guild, currently with a trader in Mournhold. I don't buy in Mournhold, prices too high. I shop Vivec if I need something for some reason. If I find it in my price range (which is NOT in the 100k gold area) I'll buy it. If not, I'll do without it.

That's funny because I always find Vivec expensive and Mournhold not so much.

I'm not attached to any one location, though. I go based on where TTC says I can get whatever I want the cheapest.

And I'm with you on never spending 100k. I finally blew through a ton of master writs over the past few days, and I bought probably around 20 motif pages from guild traders (so I can vouch that at least someone is shopping lol). If I needed a page that was more than 25,000, I destroyed the writ. There's nothing that I absolutely need in this game (it's a game!), so if I consider something too expensive (I ain't rich), I forget about it. I noticed that some of the pages I bought seemed cheaper than last time I checked, but that meant I bought more pages than I might have otherwise.

TaSheen · August 3

AzuraFan wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

PC NA guild, currently with a trader in Mournhold. I don't buy in Mournhold, prices too high. I shop Vivec if I need something for some reason. If I find it in my price range (which is NOT in the 100k gold area) I'll buy it. If not, I'll do without it.

That's funny because I always find Vivec expensive and Mournhold not so much. I'm not attached to any one location, though. I go based on where TTC says I can get whatever I want the cheapest.

And I'm with you on never spending 100k. I finally blew through a ton of master writs over the past few days, and I bought probably around 20 motif pages from guild traders (so I can vouch that at least someone is shopping lol). If I needed a page that was more than 25,000, I destroyed the writ. There's nothing that I absolutely need in this game (it's a game!), so if I consider something too expensive (I ain't rich), I forget about it. I noticed that some of the pages I bought seemed cheaper than last time I checked, but that meant I bought more pages than I might have otherwise.

I don't use TTC because I don't appreciate the ads. So Vivec is where my girls do daily writs, and if they need something, that's where I start. I think it probably depends on what any given person is looking for?

I absolutely refuse to go troll around every city and outlying kiosk. My time is worth more than that....

I'm saving master writs on 3 girls (different accounts) for the class script scraps. That's the only thing I'm doing differently than "whatever's normal"....

woe · August 3

never heard of em

freespirit · August 3

I've said my bit on sales, lack of sales, reasons for price drops etc etc

So instead of selling I decided to go shopping....... I love a bit of shopping....... for my own use not for flipping!!

I've farmed the Outcast Inn and had my usually crap luck, I'm building a Vineyard and Tavern so I wanted a few of the Colovian furnishing plans, which imo are very nice!

I dropped a few million BUT the interesting thing I noticed was........ using TTC website and setting the price to the cheapest offerings, even if those items were seen many hours before, a good percentage were still available.... that is NOT usual, especially with relatively new furnishing plans!!

I benefited ofc but that malaise that's being mentioned does seem to be real!!

ShadowGendalf · August 3

ElderSmitter wrote: »

One of my All-Time Favorite Guilds Ankle Biters has put out a notice they are ceasing all Top Tier Raffles and giving up our Spot in Deshaan after Years of being a Staple to Local Buyers. The guild is not going out yet but will no longer Bid on Premium Spots. I was sad to see this upon logging in and checking my mail. Revenue has plummeted for the guild after the Changes made by Zos and the crumbling economy. Sad....

They can't be at the helm forever)

Veritaz · August 3

The price of guild trader locations will still take time to come down. Sale profits are plummeting for them all, and the big traders who retain hold of popular spots longer will simply be the ones with more reserves in the bank to burn through until either the economy stabilizes again or better trade methods are identified.
Specialized guild traders will not work at this point because frivolous spending is down as people are saving their coin while they ride out the wave of whatever is currently happening. I was considering crafting some popular furniture walls etc to list, had a look on ttc and literally zero listings for several basic furniture items I listed. That tells me nobody is listing because nobody is buying. Listing your furniture or specialty wares in the middle of nowhere waiting for a particular niche customer won’t work either with the reduced listing times coupled with lack of discretionary spending.

FlopsyPrince · August 3

DigiAngel wrote: »

Djennku wrote: »

The economy is fine.

It's obviously not....otherwise you wouldn't see the myriad of posts asking/talking about it.

That said, what do people expect? ZOS keeps making changes that the bulk of people don't want...makes sense to me...less people playing, less people buying

Some posters think asserting the same thing over and over will make it true. No true evidence, just assertion. Though this one did have at least some reasoning as well, many effectively do not.

FlopsyPrince · August 3

Soarora wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

No spot is 'premium' that's a myth made up to pander to lazy players.
Or those players that misunderstood how much time is needed to play ESO.

'Ankle Biters' will soon discover what percentage of their customers are 'loyal'.

What guilds should could be doing is specialising in range of products so that people remember the name and not the location.

I also think that more "specific" or "specialized" trading guilds would be a good idea-- for instance, sellers who specialize in crafting mats, or furnishings, or potions, or crafting motifs, etc. It seems like most guilds try to be "your one-stop shopping destination" by carrying everything imaginable, but then you just have a lot of competition from everyone else. Not that having competition between sellers is bad, but I think having some more highly-specialized sellers might be a good thing.

This is not realistic, I don’t have 30 motifs to sell or 30 stacks of materials or 30 furnishing plans. If I’m looking for something specific, I’ll use TTC but otherwise I buy a range of items (PvP gear for my collections, motifs, style pages, furnishing plans…) from Alinor and if I’m really feeling it, Elden Root. I don’t care what the traders are, I care they have goods. Using TTC for every single item is time consuming but also leads you to a spiral of “oh someone bought this already, oh someone bought this already, oh som—“ when if you just go to traders you can find things before they even go up onto TTC.

And console doesn't have TTC in any even somewhat effective manner. Ignoring the time sink it can be to find something still selling even something listed a few minutes ago.

(I suspect the makers of TTC need not to say something is at a location if it was just bought by the players seeing it!)

wolfie1.0. · August 3

DenverRalphy wrote: »

fall0athboy wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

fall0athboy wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

fall0athboy wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

One of my All-Time Favorite Guilds Ankle Biters has put out a notice they are ceasing all Top Tier Raffles and giving up our Spot in Deshaan after Years of being a Staple to Local Buyers. The guild is not going out yet but will no longer Bid on Premium Spots. I was sad to see this upon logging in and checking my mail. Revenue has plummeted for the guild after the Changes made by Zos and the crumbling economy. Sad....

Okay, specifically what changes has ZOS made to "crumble the economy" and specifically how would you "save it"?

You do not know the changes? Read up then please. Many changes have taken place causing the economy to weaken... I am not complaining i have plenty of gold. It is just sad to see this taking place. there is another thread with tons of pages you can read up on it... I do not think there is a decline in players. I see folks everywhere. Best of luck.

I do not know the changes. Tell me them, specifically, please.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8133068/#Comment_8133068

Specifically what thing in Update 42 is causing the economy to weaken? I do not know the economy in this game, I do not know what specifically affected it. Why are you not giving me a straight answer here?

Because he doesn't actually know. Despite what many would like to claiim, there haven't been any changes made to affect the economy. Some will say that shortening the listing time was part of it. But nope. It doesn't.

The only thing that has affected the economy is that ZoS has bombarded players with events that dump boatloads of resources into the game. That's it. So those people who rely on making gold by selling resources in the Guild Traders aren't making so much coinage anymore, and won't until it all subsides.

And it always does. Because despite what some players might misunderstand, nobody has mortages to pay in game, no energy bills that must be kept up to date, no assets that'll be revoked. Just the cost of time or resources to acrue the materials you need to make potions, craft/maintain your gear, etc.. And when the prices on the trader go down, so too does the cost of restocking/maintaining your pots/food/gear/eetc.. so it all balances out.

the 14 day listing and mail system change has impacted the economy, and can't be excluded from the equation. That said its actual impact is not likely the main culprit, and is not likely as major as people may think it is. You see what it did was it shortened the timeframe in which players could take risks with their listings. Previously, a person could list high and hope that someone within the 30 day timeframe would come along and bite. Now, with the timeframe shortened players are less prone to do that, so prices are listed at the low in for an attempt at a faster sale.

Second, previously, a player could list an item and go on a hiatus and still have access to the items sold upon return. with the change items could be lost within as little as 14 days and as many as 28 days. The Mail changes also reduced the ability to use the mail system as an unofficial storage system.

What are the impacts? players that used the mail system for storage now have less capacity for storage so they will buy less frequently resulting in less sales. Players that need to go on or desire a hiatus from the game for any significant timeframe or can't reliably login in due to IRL issues are less likely to list before departure, or not at all because of the unknown.

This means that more casual players are less likely to buy and sell unless they really need to.

however, what i said above only impacts casual traders, for hardcore traders selling stuff within 14 days was and still is not really an issue. but that leads into is my next point.

A change does not actually NEED to have a significant real impact on an economy, it only needs to be PRECEIVED as a significant real impact of the economy to have a real impact. i have stated it before but the real cost of all things tradeable in ESO is simplified down to xGold + (Time + Luck) where gold is at base 0.00 and increases based on how you value said time and luck. Which means its 100% based on perceived value. Perception matters, so if players come to a collective conclusion based on an abritrary and non objective assumption that the economy is sinking, then the economy will sink.

There is a reason why in IRL businesses and economists rely on consumer confidence metrics as an economic calculation, it matters, regardless of if the actual logic does. Humans are often very irrational in actions and thoughts.

FlopsyPrince · August 3

Claiming that the listing time and mail changes have had no impact is shortsighted at best. Maybe not full impact, but how could they not play some role?

LaintalAy · August 3

edited

Veritaz · August 3

LaintalAy wrote: »

They are not forced to bid on any location at all; they choose the location that they prefer.
When bidding, they choose the amount; it is not pre-defined.

This is like saying people are not forced to buy the game if they don’t like the price. It’s an intentionally simplistic interpretation of the situation. Guilds are not forced to pay for popular locations of course, but if they want to participate in the game in the way they and their members have come to enjoy it, then yes they need to achieve top bid to secure the spot. And if they don’t bid high then some other guild will do so. I love this game and I will continue trying to make trading work, but these latest changes are having a very negative effect. Your point about this being the only change ever made to the trading system just proves the point that it has obviously been working mostly fine for many years.

Scaletho · August 3

ElderSmitter wrote: »

I am not offended. Just replying to your post and sharing my opinion. The fact you even state that Craglorn is not as popular as it used to be basically stamps the truth into my post. Certain places generate much more business. Many players buy being in a hurry have tons of gold and don't care to run around looking for cheap mats before a trial or dungeon for instance. Or while doing PVP there is a fire at the Undaunted in Stormhaven where people make potions really quick after buying mats of a vendor there.

Don't mess with arrogant jerks. They will always double down their stupidity in order to make you the bad one.

BlueRaven · August 3

fall0athboy wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

fall0athboy wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

fall0athboy wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

One of my All-Time Favorite Guilds Ankle Biters has put out a notice they are ceasing all Top Tier Raffles and giving up our Spot in Deshaan after Years of being a Staple to Local Buyers. The guild is not going out yet but will no longer Bid on Premium Spots. I was sad to see this upon logging in and checking my mail. Revenue has plummeted for the guild after the Changes made by Zos and the crumbling economy. Sad....

Okay, specifically what changes has ZOS made to "crumble the economy" and specifically how would you "save it"?

You do not know the changes? Read up then please. Many changes have taken place causing the economy to weaken... I am not complaining i have plenty of gold. It is just sad to see this taking place. there is another thread with tons of pages you can read up on it... I do not think there is a decline in players. I see folks everywhere. Best of luck.

I do not know the changes. Tell me them, specifically, please.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8133068/#Comment_8133068

Specifically what thing in Update 42 is causing the economy to weaken? I do not know the economy in this game, I do not know what specifically affected it. Why are you not giving me a straight answer here?

The reason I didn’t specify is because we have a multitude of threads on the subject and I have no wish to derail this thread into another discussion on the significance of those changes.
It’s like participating in a tread about an earthbound meteor, and trying to explain to someone about the existence of gravity. While discussions about gravity were discussed at great length elsewhere.

Understand?

But in a nutshell:

Zos shortened the amount of time items stay on the trader in half and also shorten the amount of time unsold items stay in our mailbox significantly. This has put a lot of financial, inventory, AND “game time” pressure on sellers.
At the same time, zos introduced a super rare ink commodity that requires a lot of farming to find which has increased ore and other crafting materials flooding the market.

With decreased sales and players no longer wishing to participate, all of this has put trading guilds on the back foot. Basically unhappy (and dwindling) guild mates, and lower sales income to secure their regular locations.

That is the tldr version.

But this thread is about the trader guilds dying, not a rehash of what caused it.

I_killed_Vivec · August 3

LaintalAy wrote: »

People complained that prices, in general, were too high.

The 14 day listing change has affected some players. Other players, by their own admission, aren't affected.

This is the only change made by ZOS to the 'trading system', possibly ever.

There have been changes to other aspects of the game.

There have been some activities that made some items more readily available.

99.9% of things listed at Guild traders were found in the game by players.

Overall, prices have come down.

Please review what I understand to be the facts and correct me where I'm wrong.

Players wanted their free items to be cheaper. Now they are.

The problems now facing Guilds and their owners are entirely of their own making.
They are not forced to bid on any location at all; they choose the location that they prefer.
When bidding, they choose the amount; it is not pre-defined.

You are wrong on several points.

Some people complained some prices were too high.

The 14 day limit affects every trader. Some say it hasn't affected them because they brought their prices down so items would shift within those 14 days - by definition this is them being affected by the change.

It certainly is not the only change to the trading system ZoS have made. Update 23 introduced multi-bidding for Guild Traders, which made a massive difference. If you weren't aware, a quick google would have informed you of this.

99.9% of things listed were not found in the game by players. There are very few raw mat sales (obviously apart from alchemy, provisioning, and enchanting, which do not have a processing stage). Indeed tempers are generally appropriated as a result of processing raw mats, and are linked to the skill you have to process them and the CP points you have invested. I would argue that anything bought from the master writ vendor could not be called "found", because you have to first obtain and then complete master writs to get the required tokens. Similarly, I'd say that the motifs obtained via the antiquaries system are not "found" - you have to invest in scrying and excavating. Some people sell gear and furnishings they have created - again, these are not "found", they require the investment of time and skill points, as well as obtaining plans, motifs, etc. Potions are not found, there's an investment of time and skill points.

There are no "free" items - otherwise everyone would have them and there would be no need to buy them. Everything, even just stopping to pick up columbine, has a cost - time, investment of skill points, playing capability. There are players who complain about the price of columbine who wouldn't bend over to pick up the flower at their feet.

As for the problems of the guilds, you don't seem to understand the OP. The whole point was that his guild was going out of business. Obviously they choose the location and the bid, that goes without saying. The point is that the cost of a successful bid is not sustainable. Now that might change, but in the meantime guilds are quitting, and when it does change the game loses the massive gold sink that high bids provide...