Hardened Ward heal making it to live is a mistake and needs to be changed

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

I'm not too good with my MagSorc, only AR25. Since my original was a melee DK, I was too prone to get in melee range and I was squishy, so I'd die.

However, last night I took my Magsorc into Zerodil and didn't die once. I hate to say it but Magsorc went from one of the most challenging class almost to easy mode with this change.

So when you say you didn't die what did you survive? A 12 man running negate and dc, 3 hard hitting NBs, one dk and two hard hitting bow builds, a large bomb with 3 vs procs?

Also when you didn't die was it to copious streak usage?

And lastly did you get many kills in group or on your own?

I ask all this because there's a difference in not dying and not dying while getting solo kills. As well as a difference in not dying and just getting out of there because a lot of classes and builds can currently do this with relative ease so I'm curious

I was solo. I survived several keep battles where EP was over run and I was surrounded by hoardes of opposing faction. Normally I would have been blown to bits but the hardened ward kept me alive even in close quarters several times, even in melee range. I think I had 44 kills and 0 deaths before maintenance. Like I said I am not an expert sorc by any means. I will say it is fun to play sorc now, but OP builds are always fun...for a little while at least

They’ll just say “Sorc is now on par with other classes” lol..

I know for a fact if you had hopped on another class with the same level of experience as you have on Sorc, you would’ve died instantly.

Sorc is better than other classes right now. It’s the new NB.

Actually this depends on other factors. Some people are just naturally better with certain classes even if they don't have the experience.

NB is very powerful and I'm an experienced player but I'm mediocre or less most of the time on NB because I don't enjoy playing it.

So when you say another class it would really depend on the build, how inclined someone is to a class and what kind of people they are fighting/ fighting around.

So is sorc better than other classes?

Yes of course it is because every class is better than another class other than necro, no news there.

And NB was the new NB when it only had dk to compare to. Sorc compares to DK, Arcanist, NB, and plar to some degree. All of which are fairly strong.

Point is, this needs more time to bake before we can really say what's what.

No we don’t need more time Bushido. It’s a ridiculous thing to say.

When Dark Convergence/Plaguebreak went live, it didn’t take “more time to bake” for people to see the sets are broken. Literally 1 hour of PvP was enough.

So why do we have to wait 3 months to see whether Sorc is broken or not when there are people in this thread who rarely played their Sorc but can face tank other classes and get kills?

That's a somewhat fair point and my reasoning is based on my experience with Arcanist. The thing was broken on arrival for obvious reasons and people still played the game, they just learned to work around the Arcanist or attack in groups if your really wanted to take them down. To this day I still see Arcanist come around and try to be tanky only to have groups of players immediately swarm on them because we all came to understand that it's just better to focus them down then to try to 1v1 them.

Right now there's a lot of fanfare over people wanting to be right about their predictions and people getting on sorc as the flavor of the month. I'm interested to see what changes people make to their builds or tactics to deal with sorc's new buffs. If after all that we still have sorc dominating, not dying, and being a pain in group v group battles then yes I'll say hey this thing is way too busted.

My point is that this game has a large player base to the point where I'd like to hear thoughts and see reactions from more than just the people that bothered to create a forum account because that's not an accurate representation of the game.

No offense to you or anyone else that thinks they have all the answers they need right here and now.

StaticWave

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

I'm not too good with my MagSorc, only AR25. Since my original was a melee DK, I was too prone to get in melee range and I was squishy, so I'd die.

However, last night I took my Magsorc into Zerodil and didn't die once. I hate to say it but Magsorc went from one of the most challenging class almost to easy mode with this change.

So when you say you didn't die what did you survive? A 12 man running negate and dc, 3 hard hitting NBs, one dk and two hard hitting bow builds, a large bomb with 3 vs procs?

Also when you didn't die was it to copious streak usage?

And lastly did you get many kills in group or on your own?

I ask all this because there's a difference in not dying and not dying while getting solo kills. As well as a difference in not dying and just getting out of there because a lot of classes and builds can currently do this with relative ease so I'm curious

I was solo. I survived several keep battles where EP was over run and I was surrounded by hoardes of opposing faction. Normally I would have been blown to bits but the hardened ward kept me alive even in close quarters several times, even in melee range. I think I had 44 kills and 0 deaths before maintenance. Like I said I am not an expert sorc by any means. I will say it is fun to play sorc now, but OP builds are always fun...for a little while at least

They’ll just say “Sorc is now on par with other classes” lol..

I know for a fact if you had hopped on another class with the same level of experience as you have on Sorc, you would’ve died instantly.

Sorc is better than other classes right now. It’s the new NB.

Actually this depends on other factors. Some people are just naturally better with certain classes even if they don't have the experience.

NB is very powerful and I'm an experienced player but I'm mediocre or less most of the time on NB because I don't enjoy playing it.

So when you say another class it would really depend on the build, how inclined someone is to a class and what kind of people they are fighting/ fighting around.

So is sorc better than other classes?

Yes of course it is because every class is better than another class other than necro, no news there.

And NB was the new NB when it only had dk to compare to. Sorc compares to DK, Arcanist, NB, and plar to some degree. All of which are fairly strong.

Point is, this needs more time to bake before we can really say what's what.

No we don’t need more time Bushido. It’s a ridiculous thing to say.

When Dark Convergence/Plaguebreak went live, it didn’t take “more time to bake” for people to see the sets are broken. Literally 1 hour of PvP was enough.

So why do we have to wait 3 months to see whether Sorc is broken or not when there are people in this thread who rarely played their Sorc but can face tank other classes and get kills?

That's a somewhat fair point and my reasoning is based on my experience with Arcanist. The thing was broken on arrival for obvious reasons and people still played the game, they just learned to work around the Arcanist or attack in groups if your really wanted to take them down. To this day I still see Arcanist come around and try to be tanky only to have groups of players immediately swarm on them because we all came to understand that it's just better to focus them down then to try to 1v1 them.

Right now there's a lot of fanfare over people wanting to be right about their predictions and people getting on sorc as the flavor of the month. I'm interested to see what changes people make to their builds or tactics to deal with sorc's new buffs. If after all that we still have sorc dominating, not dying, and being a pain in group v group battles then yes I'll say hey this thing is way too busted.

My point is that this game has a large player base to the point where I'd like to hear thoughts and see reactions from more than just the people that bothered to create a forum account because that's not an accurate representation of the game.

No offense to you or anyone else that thinks they have all the answers they need right here and now.

1) No DPS build can kill them now, not even 9k DPS. The only way to kill them is with a 1 shot build

2) There's Encase, which is an amazing group heal that applies Major Maim and Minor Vitality, which is definitely needed now for Gvg

3) I can just as easily run Shield in a cleave build for GvG and tank damage. We've established that it's not hard to survive on Sorc or stack max mag, it's definitely not hard to get an AoE build together

4) You keep saying you want to hear more thoughts but you are playing from console and console hasn't gotten the new update yet. I am playing from PC, and all I'm hearing is Sorc is broken. Getting news from the forums while not experiencing the update, then disregarding players who are experiencing the new update and telling you what's going on is a bit disingenuous of an argument.

What's the point of PTS testing then? I was one of the few players who tested and saw how strong it would be. You and many other players didn't even participate, and when the patch dropped on PC and many people complain about how unkillable they are while still doing absurd damage, you still disregard it as "we need more time". Cmon man.

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

1) No DPS build can kill them now, not even 9k DPS. The only way to kill them is with a 1 shot build

Fair enough but there are a few builds that can't be killed that have good damage which is why in 1v1s we have a lot of stalemates at this point. This is not new to the game.

And as I've said before, zos wants you to go get a buddy if you can't kill someone but really want to. That's the premise, you get a buddy, they get a buddy, then more people come along and you have group v group fights and now someone will likely get focused and die. So many classes and builds show you that zos doesn't care if you can kill someone 1v1, they want you to group up and kill someone which forces that someone to consider grouping up and well there you have group v group fights. This isn't news but my point is that they clearly don't care how unbalanced a 1v1 is and therefore neither do I.

If they did start making rules to help out 1v1 balance I'd first say wow they must have hired like 5 more people and then say hey I'm really glad to hear that but that's not the game we have today.

StaticWave wrote: »

2) There's Encase, which is an amazing group heal that applies Major Maim and Minor Vitality, which is definitely needed now for Gvg

3) I can just as easily run Shield in a cleave build for GvG and tank damage. We've established that it's not hard to survive on Sorc or stack max mag, it's definitely not hard to get an AoE build together

.

Nothing wrong with this in my opinion because once it turns into group v group it won't matter, a simple bomb could flip the tables and invalidate most any arguments about anything. Same if someone gets focused by enough players, then all this talk of an op shield and burst heal could just mean nothing because that player will be looking at a death recap with multiple players.

StaticWave wrote: »

4) You keep saying you want to hear more thoughts but you are playing from console and console hasn't gotten the new update yet. I am playing from PC, and all I'm hearing is Sorc is broken. Getting news from the forums while not experiencing the update, then disregarding players who are experiencing the new update and telling you what's going on is a bit disingenuous of an argument.

I'm not disregarding anything but I also understand that nobody is saying anything that really gets me concerned at all.

Here's what I'm hearing.

OP unkillable class with mobility and damage that's flavor of the month. To that I say, been there done that with Arcanist including mobility as I described in another post where a fast arcanist was keeping up with my fast streaking sorc and still dealing damage that made me have to keep moving even though I was tanky. So for me this sorc that's being described isn't sounding super interesting. I get it, I'm going to see a lot more sorcs for a while, they will be hard to kill and so will I. This has happened before with other classes, then people get bored with the flavor of the month and go back to other classes they like more or just play for a chance of pace. I've seen this patter multiple times which is why I'm not too concerned just because sorc is holding the buff stick for a minute. ZOS will turn the wheel again in due time so yeah I don't find this to be a change that moves the needle much because this game has already been so much worse in these regards.

Honestly people will also get tired of seeing all these sorcs and possibly do the same as they do with arcanist which is to say gang up on them on sight and some might even come out with more anti sorc builds in time. This is why I want to give things time and not exactly tune into those that are reeling from the initial change. Not that it isn't valuable data, it's just that normalization is valuable data as well over time too.

In boxing it's not the punches that you can see coming but the ones you can't see coming. Just a metaphor to say that there are a lot of players in this game spread over different platforms and players are fickle so todays commentary on a new change might look different over time. It also might not but honestly and as cliché as it sounds, only time will tell.

StaticWave wrote: »

What's the point of PTS testing then? I was one of the few players who tested and saw how strong it would be. You and many other players didn't even participate, and when the patch dropped on PC and many people complain about how unkillable they are while still doing absurd damage, you still disregard it as "we need more time". Cmon man.

I mean this isn't the first unkillable deals damage thing we've seen in a minute now is it? Granted sorc is ranged and highly mobile so I'm not discounting that. Point is, nobody is quitting the game yet, people will adapt or suffer through but even those two options take time to see with any level of clarity.

Right now people are getting on sorc en mass to test the changes and feel the power just as they have with other buffed classes but historically people always go back to something else if out of nothing else then boredom even with op classes.

I've watched players play arcanist for several bg matches or in open world only to then see them get on nb or sorc, or whatever else because maybe that's what the group needs or they just feel like playing that, etc

Right now you're looking at a spike in the data of pvp and what I'm saying is that while spikes are interesting they can can also become something else happen. I've literally seen this patter in game over the past few years multiple times. So if you want to talk data, go back and look at the data on a new class or buff dropping and how long the following wave of players playing and talking about that change or class goes on and how long it takes it to fade off. You'll find varying levels of drop off so that does give precedent to the idea that this might be a similar case but we won't know after some time has passed.

It's a reasonable argument with examples to back it up but I also understand that some aren't going to want to wait for that to play out before passing judgement or sounding the alarm.

StaticWave

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

1) No DPS build can kill them now, not even 9k DPS. The only way to kill them is with a 1 shot build

Fair enough but there are a few builds that can't be killed that have good damage which is why in 1v1s we have a lot of stalemates at this point. This is not new to the game.

And as I've said before, zos wants you to go get a buddy if you can't kill someone but really want to. That's the premise, you get a buddy, they get a buddy, then more people come along and you have group v group fights and now someone will likely get focused and die. So many classes and builds show you that zos doesn't care if you can kill someone 1v1, they want you to group up and kill someone which forces that someone to consider grouping up and well there you have group v group fights. This isn't news but my point is that they clearly don't care how unbalanced a 1v1 is and therefore neither do I.

If they did start making rules to help out 1v1 balance I'd first say wow they must have hired like 5 more people and then say hey I'm really glad to hear that but that's not the game we have today.

StaticWave wrote: »

2) There's Encase, which is an amazing group heal that applies Major Maim and Minor Vitality, which is definitely needed now for Gvg

3) I can just as easily run Shield in a cleave build for GvG and tank damage. We've established that it's not hard to survive on Sorc or stack max mag, it's definitely not hard to get an AoE build together

.

Nothing wrong with this in my opinion because once it turns into group v group it won't matter, a simple bomb could flip the tables and invalidate most any arguments about anything. Same if someone gets focused by enough players, then all this talk of an op shield and burst heal could just mean nothing because that player will be looking at a death recap with multiple players.

StaticWave wrote: »

4) You keep saying you want to hear more thoughts but you are playing from console and console hasn't gotten the new update yet. I am playing from PC, and all I'm hearing is Sorc is broken. Getting news from the forums while not experiencing the update, then disregarding players who are experiencing the new update and telling you what's going on is a bit disingenuous of an argument.

I'm not disregarding anything but I also understand that nobody is saying anything that really gets me concerned at all.

Here's what I'm hearing.

OP unkillable class with mobility and damage that's flavor of the month. To that I say, been there done that with Arcanist including mobility as I described in another post where a fast arcanist was keeping up with my fast streaking sorc and still dealing damage that made me have to keep moving even though I was tanky. So for me this sorc that's being described isn't sounding super interesting. I get it, I'm going to see a lot more sorcs for a while, they will be hard to kill and so will I. This has happened before with other classes, then people get bored with the flavor of the month and go back to other classes they like more or just play for a chance of pace. I've seen this patter multiple times which is why I'm not too concerned just because sorc is holding the buff stick for a minute. ZOS will turn the wheel again in due time so yeah I don't find this to be a change that moves the needle much because this game has already been so much worse in these regards.

Honestly people will also get tired of seeing all these sorcs and possibly do the same as they do with arcanist which is to say gang up on them on sight and some might even come out with more anti sorc builds in time. This is why I want to give things time and not exactly tune into those that are reeling from the initial change. Not that it isn't valuable data, it's just that normalization is valuable data as well over time too.

In boxing it's not the punches that you can see coming but the ones you can't see coming. Just a metaphor to say that there are a lot of players in this game spread over different platforms and players are fickle so todays commentary on a new change might look different over time. It also might not but honestly and as cliché as it sounds, only time will tell.

StaticWave wrote: »

What's the point of PTS testing then? I was one of the few players who tested and saw how strong it would be. You and many other players didn't even participate, and when the patch dropped on PC and many people complain about how unkillable they are while still doing absurd damage, you still disregard it as "we need more time". Cmon man.

I mean this isn't the first unkillable deals damage thing we've seen in a minute now is it? Granted sorc is ranged and highly mobile so I'm not discounting that. Point is, nobody is quitting the game yet, people will adapt or suffer through but even those two options take time to see with any level of clarity.

Right now people are getting on sorc en mass to test the changes and feel the power just as they have with other buffed classes but historically people always go back to something else if out of nothing else then boredom even with op classes.

I've watched players play arcanist for several bg matches or in open world only to then see them get on nb or sorc, or whatever else because maybe that's what the group needs or they just feel like playing that, etc

Right now you're looking at a spike in the data of pvp and what I'm saying is that while spikes are interesting they can can also become something else happen. I've literally seen this patter in game over the past few years multiple times. So if you want to talk data, go back and look at the data on a new class or buff dropping and how long the following wave of players playing and talking about that change or class goes on and how long it takes it to fade off. You'll find varying levels of drop off so that does give precedent to the idea that this might be a similar case but we won't know after some time has passed.

It's a reasonable argument with examples to back it up but I also understand that some aren't going to want to wait for that to play out before passing judgement or sounding the alarm.

Lol ur not concerned but you were in NB thread arguing in favor of nerfing the class.

It ain’t a concern unless it’s other classes that’s broken. Sure thing

TechMaybeHic

Bushido2513 wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

I'm not too good with my MagSorc, only AR25. Since my original was a melee DK, I was too prone to get in melee range and I was squishy, so I'd die.

However, last night I took my Magsorc into Zerodil and didn't die once. I hate to say it but Magsorc went from one of the most challenging class almost to easy mode with this change.

So when you say you didn't die what did you survive? A 12 man running negate and dc, 3 hard hitting NBs, one dk and two hard hitting bow builds, a large bomb with 3 vs procs?

Also when you didn't die was it to copious streak usage?

And lastly did you get many kills in group or on your own?

I ask all this because there's a difference in not dying and not dying while getting solo kills. As well as a difference in not dying and just getting out of there because a lot of classes and builds can currently do this with relative ease so I'm curious

I was solo. I survived several keep battles where EP was over run and I was surrounded by hoardes of opposing faction. Normally I would have been blown to bits but the hardened ward kept me alive even in close quarters several times, even in melee range. I think I had 44 kills and 0 deaths before maintenance. Like I said I am not an expert sorc by any means. I will say it is fun to play sorc now, but OP builds are always fun...for a little while at least

They’ll just say “Sorc is now on par with other classes” lol..

I know for a fact if you had hopped on another class with the same level of experience as you have on Sorc, you would’ve died instantly.

Sorc is better than other classes right now. It’s the new NB.

So when you say another class it would really depend on the build, how inclined someone is to a class and what kind of people they are fighting/ fighting around.

So is sorc better than other classes?

Yes of course it is because every class is better than another class other than necro, no news there.

And NB was the new NB when it only had dk to compare to. Sorc compares to DK, Arcanist, NB, and plar to some degree. All of which are fairly strong.

Point is, this needs more time to bake before we can really say what's what.

This is a poor excuse advocating for inaction.

It took me all of 3 BGs in high MMR the first evening after the patch dropped to realize how massively broken sorc shielding is in PVP. It's faceroll easy to survive by activating 1 skill.

Activating a shield requires no skill. You just press a key. It completely shuts down your opponent. There is no counter play.

Also, if you're comparing to those other classes:
1. DK doesn't have the mobility that Sorc does
2. Arc doesn't have the mobility that Sorc does (and please don't cite that goofy teleport class skill as being comparable to Streak)
3. NB doesn't have the mobility that Sorc does. It has stealth, but stealth's counterplay is stealth detect skills / pots
4. Plar? Plar shouldn't even be on this list. No one complains about the class being imbalanced. The only thing that stands out about it is the ranged execute, which is great if you can get an opponent down to 25% HP or less, which the rest of the class kit isn't that strong to do

Right now, Sorc has not only by far the best mobility skill in the game, they have ludicrous shielding on top of that.

I respect that to you right now it feels like a certain kind of situation and there's always two types of people, those that see it and react and those that want to be patient about it. Both types have a chance to be right. So maybe you're right and this is just as bad as people think it is.

For me I'd rather see how the community reacts past the first few days which is usually where you get the people who are all revved up and ready to swing hard in one direction or the other. I'd rather see people comment on this after the fanfare has cooled down. Doesn't mean I'll be any more right for doing so, just that I don't see much value in choosing to say the world is on fire because of this change.

Also it's not that I'm just waiting for people to calm down and have another look but I'm also waiting to see how people might change their builds up to deal with sorc as it is.

I don't rely on static or static's friends, or any other portion of the community because it's a big community with a lot of people out there so I'd like to give it time to observe.

Now that's not to say that I disagree that it's busted in the 1v1, because I do generally speaking agree. It's just that this game isn't about the 1v1 per the direction of zos so it's not really relevant to the bigger picture of the game as a whole.

React by 50% being sorcs, and 50% running wardens with shimmering shield and spell wall give or take whatever NB holdouts and massacis . Because it was bad enough having ranged abilities so close to melee damage abilities before; but to then also have easier recovery as well is just insane

Idinuse

Theignson wrote: »

In Zerodil last night, during battles, I was coated with Haunting curse ~100% of the time.

I saw a streaming Mag sorc with 60k magicka and 35k health. He had both hardened ward and healing ward...his health almost never budged.

It is the age of the Sorc.

I saw 60 streaming DKs and their health never budged, but they still wiped groups of players constantly. I also saw NBs that healed constantly through their heal on dmgs and HoTs. Amazing!

Sorcerers have always had a tough time patching things together. You want to get over 1,400 mag regen? Bye bye speed or SD or something else. You want to get anything out of the Surge crit dmg heals? Try to stack crit chance at the expense of pretty much everything else. You are the class with arguably lowest crit chance stacking in the game. You want a burst heal of any kind? You have to slot a pet on both of your bars or go Vigor (as I have for years). You want penetration? Bye bye armor/spell/phys mitigation. You want major evasion? You have to go Medium armor, bye bye mag regen and penetration, and you can't use any set you want that isn't crafted or medium to begin with. It goes on...

Come on people. I get it that when your fav prey toughens up that one might get upset (while sitting behind mitigations of 95-98%, HoTs, burst heals, 200% speed buff, near endless regen, insane crit chances, perma CCs, near perma ulties and WD all at the same time), but come on. It is one burst heal. ONE. Please.

StaticWave

Idinuse wrote: »

You are the class with arguably lowest crit chance stacking in the game

How are you claiming Sorc has the lowest crit chance when it gets Minor Prophecy as a passive lol. It's literally the 2nd highest crit chance class in the game, after NB. And don't tell me it's because of not having in class Major Prophecy. You can get that with potions or Inner Light on Magsorc (which is mandatory). Not saying it wouldn't be good to have an in class source of Major Prophecy, but you're exaggerating.

Idinuse wrote: »

Sorcerers have always had a tough time patching things together. You want to get over 1,400 mag regen? Bye bye speed or SD or something else. You want to get anything out of the Surge crit dmg heals? Try to stack crit chance at the expense of pretty much everything else. You are the class with arguably lowest crit chance stacking in the game. You want a burst heal of any kind? You have to slot a pet on both of your bars or go Vigor (as I have for years). You want penetration? Bye bye armor/spell/phys mitigation. You want major evasion? You have to go Medium armor, bye bye mag regen and penetration, and you can't use any set you want that isn't crafted or medium to begin with. It goes on...

Come one people. I get it that when your fav prey toughens up that one might get upset (while sitting behind mitigations of 95-98%, HoTs, burst heals, 200% speed buff, near endless regen, insane crit chances, perma CCs, near perma ulties and WD all at the same time), but come on. It is one burst heal. ONE. Please.

Jesus, magsorc is currently the tankiest spec in the game, in a full damage build. I honestly don't understand how people can blatantly defend this buff.

Idinuse

StaticWave wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

You are the class with arguably lowest crit chance stacking in the game

How are you claiming Sorc has the lowest crit chance when it gets Minor Prophecy as a passive lol. It's literally the 2nd highest crit chance class in the game, after NB. And don't tell me it's because of not having in class Major Prophecy. You can get that with potions or Inner Light on Magsorc (which is mandatory). Not saying it wouldn't be good to have an in class source of Major Prophecy, but you're exaggerating.

Idinuse wrote: »

Sorcerers have always had a tough time patching things together. You want to get over 1,400 mag regen? Bye bye speed or SD or something else. You want to get anything out of the Surge crit dmg heals? Try to stack crit chance at the expense of pretty much everything else. You are the class with arguably lowest crit chance stacking in the game. You want a burst heal of any kind? You have to slot a pet on both of your bars or go Vigor (as I have for years). You want penetration? Bye bye armor/spell/phys mitigation. You want major evasion? You have to go Medium armor, bye bye mag regen and penetration, and you can't use any set you want that isn't crafted or medium to begin with. It goes on...

Come one people. I get it that when your fav prey toughens up that one might get upset (while sitting behind mitigations of 95-98%, HoTs, burst heals, 200% speed buff, near endless regen, insane crit chances, perma CCs, near perma ulties and WD all at the same time), but come on. It is one burst heal. ONE. Please.

Jesus, magsorc is currently the tankiest spec in the game, in a full damage build. I honestly don't understand how people can blatantly defend this buff.

Put that build here please. Thanks.

StaticWave

Idinuse wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

You are the class with arguably lowest crit chance stacking in the game

How are you claiming Sorc has the lowest crit chance when it gets Minor Prophecy as a passive lol. It's literally the 2nd highest crit chance class in the game, after NB. And don't tell me it's because of not having in class Major Prophecy. You can get that with potions or Inner Light on Magsorc (which is mandatory). Not saying it wouldn't be good to have an in class source of Major Prophecy, but you're exaggerating.

Idinuse wrote: »

Sorcerers have always had a tough time patching things together. You want to get over 1,400 mag regen? Bye bye speed or SD or something else. You want to get anything out of the Surge crit dmg heals? Try to stack crit chance at the expense of pretty much everything else. You are the class with arguably lowest crit chance stacking in the game. You want a burst heal of any kind? You have to slot a pet on both of your bars or go Vigor (as I have for years). You want penetration? Bye bye armor/spell/phys mitigation. You want major evasion? You have to go Medium armor, bye bye mag regen and penetration, and you can't use any set you want that isn't crafted or medium to begin with. It goes on...

Come one people. I get it that when your fav prey toughens up that one might get upset (while sitting behind mitigations of 95-98%, HoTs, burst heals, 200% speed buff, near endless regen, insane crit chances, perma CCs, near perma ulties and WD all at the same time), but come on. It is one burst heal. ONE. Please.

Jesus, magsorc is currently the tankiest spec in the game, in a full damage build. I honestly don't understand how people can blatantly defend this buff.

Put that build here please. Thanks.

Crafty/Rally/DDF/Chudan with 59k max mag, 30k hp, and 1.8k mag regen before continuous. You can thank me later.

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

1) No DPS build can kill them now, not even 9k DPS. The only way to kill them is with a 1 shot build

Fair enough but there are a few builds that can't be killed that have good damage which is why in 1v1s we have a lot of stalemates at this point. This is not new to the game.

And as I've said before, zos wants you to go get a buddy if you can't kill someone but really want to. That's the premise, you get a buddy, they get a buddy, then more people come along and you have group v group fights and now someone will likely get focused and die. So many classes and builds show you that zos doesn't care if you can kill someone 1v1, they want you to group up and kill someone which forces that someone to consider grouping up and well there you have group v group fights. This isn't news but my point is that they clearly don't care how unbalanced a 1v1 is and therefore neither do I.

If they did start making rules to help out 1v1 balance I'd first say wow they must have hired like 5 more people and then say hey I'm really glad to hear that but that's not the game we have today.

StaticWave wrote: »

2) There's Encase, which is an amazing group heal that applies Major Maim and Minor Vitality, which is definitely needed now for Gvg

3) I can just as easily run Shield in a cleave build for GvG and tank damage. We've established that it's not hard to survive on Sorc or stack max mag, it's definitely not hard to get an AoE build together

.

Nothing wrong with this in my opinion because once it turns into group v group it won't matter, a simple bomb could flip the tables and invalidate most any arguments about anything. Same if someone gets focused by enough players, then all this talk of an op shield and burst heal could just mean nothing because that player will be looking at a death recap with multiple players.

StaticWave wrote: »

4) You keep saying you want to hear more thoughts but you are playing from console and console hasn't gotten the new update yet. I am playing from PC, and all I'm hearing is Sorc is broken. Getting news from the forums while not experiencing the update, then disregarding players who are experiencing the new update and telling you what's going on is a bit disingenuous of an argument.

I'm not disregarding anything but I also understand that nobody is saying anything that really gets me concerned at all.

Here's what I'm hearing.

OP unkillable class with mobility and damage that's flavor of the month. To that I say, been there done that with Arcanist including mobility as I described in another post where a fast arcanist was keeping up with my fast streaking sorc and still dealing damage that made me have to keep moving even though I was tanky. So for me this sorc that's being described isn't sounding super interesting. I get it, I'm going to see a lot more sorcs for a while, they will be hard to kill and so will I. This has happened before with other classes, then people get bored with the flavor of the month and go back to other classes they like more or just play for a chance of pace. I've seen this patter multiple times which is why I'm not too concerned just because sorc is holding the buff stick for a minute. ZOS will turn the wheel again in due time so yeah I don't find this to be a change that moves the needle much because this game has already been so much worse in these regards.

Honestly people will also get tired of seeing all these sorcs and possibly do the same as they do with arcanist which is to say gang up on them on sight and some might even come out with more anti sorc builds in time. This is why I want to give things time and not exactly tune into those that are reeling from the initial change. Not that it isn't valuable data, it's just that normalization is valuable data as well over time too.

In boxing it's not the punches that you can see coming but the ones you can't see coming. Just a metaphor to say that there are a lot of players in this game spread over different platforms and players are fickle so todays commentary on a new change might look different over time. It also might not but honestly and as cliché as it sounds, only time will tell.

StaticWave wrote: »

What's the point of PTS testing then? I was one of the few players who tested and saw how strong it would be. You and many other players didn't even participate, and when the patch dropped on PC and many people complain about how unkillable they are while still doing absurd damage, you still disregard it as "we need more time". Cmon man.

I mean this isn't the first unkillable deals damage thing we've seen in a minute now is it? Granted sorc is ranged and highly mobile so I'm not discounting that. Point is, nobody is quitting the game yet, people will adapt or suffer through but even those two options take time to see with any level of clarity.

Right now people are getting on sorc en mass to test the changes and feel the power just as they have with other buffed classes but historically people always go back to something else if out of nothing else then boredom even with op classes.

I've watched players play arcanist for several bg matches or in open world only to then see them get on nb or sorc, or whatever else because maybe that's what the group needs or they just feel like playing that, etc

Right now you're looking at a spike in the data of pvp and what I'm saying is that while spikes are interesting they can can also become something else happen. I've literally seen this patter in game over the past few years multiple times. So if you want to talk data, go back and look at the data on a new class or buff dropping and how long the following wave of players playing and talking about that change or class goes on and how long it takes it to fade off. You'll find varying levels of drop off so that does give precedent to the idea that this might be a similar case but we won't know after some time has passed.

It's a reasonable argument with examples to back it up but I also understand that some aren't going to want to wait for that to play out before passing judgement or sounding the alarm.

Lol ur not concerned but you were in NB thread arguing in favor of nerfing the class.

It ain’t a concern unless it’s other classes that’s broken. Sure thing

How long have we had to observe the effects of NB vs this new change with sorc?

I have sooooo much more data to draw on in a NB argument so yes I'm going to feel more confident in stating an opinion.

I'm saying the same thing here, just that I can better appreciate how bad something is over time.

StaticWave

@Idinuse



58.8k mag, 31.8k hp, 22.1k stam, 1.9k mag recov and 1k stam recov before continuous, 3.7k spell dmg before continuous (can be improved if using spell dmg glyphs), 8.6k base pen, 24k phys resist, 27k spell resist, 2.9k crit resist, 15.4k ward, 9.8k burst heal.

Like I said, magsorc is busted. These stats can let you tank up to 9k DPS and deal 4-5k DPS. Don't believe me? Try it out yourself.

StaticWave

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

1) No DPS build can kill them now, not even 9k DPS. The only way to kill them is with a 1 shot build

Fair enough but there are a few builds that can't be killed that have good damage which is why in 1v1s we have a lot of stalemates at this point. This is not new to the game.

And as I've said before, zos wants you to go get a buddy if you can't kill someone but really want to. That's the premise, you get a buddy, they get a buddy, then more people come along and you have group v group fights and now someone will likely get focused and die. So many classes and builds show you that zos doesn't care if you can kill someone 1v1, they want you to group up and kill someone which forces that someone to consider grouping up and well there you have group v group fights. This isn't news but my point is that they clearly don't care how unbalanced a 1v1 is and therefore neither do I.

If they did start making rules to help out 1v1 balance I'd first say wow they must have hired like 5 more people and then say hey I'm really glad to hear that but that's not the game we have today.

StaticWave wrote: »

2) There's Encase, which is an amazing group heal that applies Major Maim and Minor Vitality, which is definitely needed now for Gvg

3) I can just as easily run Shield in a cleave build for GvG and tank damage. We've established that it's not hard to survive on Sorc or stack max mag, it's definitely not hard to get an AoE build together

.

Nothing wrong with this in my opinion because once it turns into group v group it won't matter, a simple bomb could flip the tables and invalidate most any arguments about anything. Same if someone gets focused by enough players, then all this talk of an op shield and burst heal could just mean nothing because that player will be looking at a death recap with multiple players.

StaticWave wrote: »

4) You keep saying you want to hear more thoughts but you are playing from console and console hasn't gotten the new update yet. I am playing from PC, and all I'm hearing is Sorc is broken. Getting news from the forums while not experiencing the update, then disregarding players who are experiencing the new update and telling you what's going on is a bit disingenuous of an argument.

I'm not disregarding anything but I also understand that nobody is saying anything that really gets me concerned at all.

Here's what I'm hearing.

OP unkillable class with mobility and damage that's flavor of the month. To that I say, been there done that with Arcanist including mobility as I described in another post where a fast arcanist was keeping up with my fast streaking sorc and still dealing damage that made me have to keep moving even though I was tanky. So for me this sorc that's being described isn't sounding super interesting. I get it, I'm going to see a lot more sorcs for a while, they will be hard to kill and so will I. This has happened before with other classes, then people get bored with the flavor of the month and go back to other classes they like more or just play for a chance of pace. I've seen this patter multiple times which is why I'm not too concerned just because sorc is holding the buff stick for a minute. ZOS will turn the wheel again in due time so yeah I don't find this to be a change that moves the needle much because this game has already been so much worse in these regards.

Honestly people will also get tired of seeing all these sorcs and possibly do the same as they do with arcanist which is to say gang up on them on sight and some might even come out with more anti sorc builds in time. This is why I want to give things time and not exactly tune into those that are reeling from the initial change. Not that it isn't valuable data, it's just that normalization is valuable data as well over time too.

In boxing it's not the punches that you can see coming but the ones you can't see coming. Just a metaphor to say that there are a lot of players in this game spread over different platforms and players are fickle so todays commentary on a new change might look different over time. It also might not but honestly and as cliché as it sounds, only time will tell.

StaticWave wrote: »

What's the point of PTS testing then? I was one of the few players who tested and saw how strong it would be. You and many other players didn't even participate, and when the patch dropped on PC and many people complain about how unkillable they are while still doing absurd damage, you still disregard it as "we need more time". Cmon man.

I mean this isn't the first unkillable deals damage thing we've seen in a minute now is it? Granted sorc is ranged and highly mobile so I'm not discounting that. Point is, nobody is quitting the game yet, people will adapt or suffer through but even those two options take time to see with any level of clarity.

Right now people are getting on sorc en mass to test the changes and feel the power just as they have with other buffed classes but historically people always go back to something else if out of nothing else then boredom even with op classes.

I've watched players play arcanist for several bg matches or in open world only to then see them get on nb or sorc, or whatever else because maybe that's what the group needs or they just feel like playing that, etc

Right now you're looking at a spike in the data of pvp and what I'm saying is that while spikes are interesting they can can also become something else happen. I've literally seen this patter in game over the past few years multiple times. So if you want to talk data, go back and look at the data on a new class or buff dropping and how long the following wave of players playing and talking about that change or class goes on and how long it takes it to fade off. You'll find varying levels of drop off so that does give precedent to the idea that this might be a similar case but we won't know after some time has passed.

It's a reasonable argument with examples to back it up but I also understand that some aren't going to want to wait for that to play out before passing judgement or sounding the alarm.

Lol ur not concerned but you were in NB thread arguing in favor of nerfing the class.

It ain’t a concern unless it’s other classes that’s broken. Sure thing

How long have we had to observe the effects of NB vs this new change with sorc?

I have sooooo much more data to draw on in a NB argument so yes I'm going to feel more confident in stating an opinion.

I'm saying the same thing here, just that I can better appreciate how bad something is over time.

People have been saying NB was broken during PTS testing. Nobody listened. Months later people finally realized they were right. It's nothing new.

You can listen to top tier Sorcs who did a bunch of testing during PTS, or you can wait for 3 months to see they're right. At the end of the day, I'm still enjoying my class, but I would hope people are more objective lol

Bushido2513

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

I'm not too good with my MagSorc, only AR25. Since my original was a melee DK, I was too prone to get in melee range and I was squishy, so I'd die.

However, last night I took my Magsorc into Zerodil and didn't die once. I hate to say it but Magsorc went from one of the most challenging class almost to easy mode with this change.

So when you say you didn't die what did you survive? A 12 man running negate and dc, 3 hard hitting NBs, one dk and two hard hitting bow builds, a large bomb with 3 vs procs?

Also when you didn't die was it to copious streak usage?

And lastly did you get many kills in group or on your own?

I ask all this because there's a difference in not dying and not dying while getting solo kills. As well as a difference in not dying and just getting out of there because a lot of classes and builds can currently do this with relative ease so I'm curious

I was solo. I survived several keep battles where EP was over run and I was surrounded by hoardes of opposing faction. Normally I would have been blown to bits but the hardened ward kept me alive even in close quarters several times, even in melee range. I think I had 44 kills and 0 deaths before maintenance. Like I said I am not an expert sorc by any means. I will say it is fun to play sorc now, but OP builds are always fun...for a little while at least

They’ll just say “Sorc is now on par with other classes” lol..

I know for a fact if you had hopped on another class with the same level of experience as you have on Sorc, you would’ve died instantly.

Sorc is better than other classes right now. It’s the new NB.

So when you say another class it would really depend on the build, how inclined someone is to a class and what kind of people they are fighting/ fighting around.

So is sorc better than other classes?

Yes of course it is because every class is better than another class other than necro, no news there.

And NB was the new NB when it only had dk to compare to. Sorc compares to DK, Arcanist, NB, and plar to some degree. All of which are fairly strong.

Point is, this needs more time to bake before we can really say what's what.

This is a poor excuse advocating for inaction.

It took me all of 3 BGs in high MMR the first evening after the patch dropped to realize how massively broken sorc shielding is in PVP. It's faceroll easy to survive by activating 1 skill.

Activating a shield requires no skill. You just press a key. It completely shuts down your opponent. There is no counter play.

Also, if you're comparing to those other classes:
1. DK doesn't have the mobility that Sorc does
2. Arc doesn't have the mobility that Sorc does (and please don't cite that goofy teleport class skill as being comparable to Streak)
3. NB doesn't have the mobility that Sorc does. It has stealth, but stealth's counterplay is stealth detect skills / pots
4. Plar? Plar shouldn't even be on this list. No one complains about the class being imbalanced. The only thing that stands out about it is the ranged execute, which is great if you can get an opponent down to 25% HP or less, which the rest of the class kit isn't that strong to do

Right now, Sorc has not only by far the best mobility skill in the game, they have ludicrous shielding on top of that.

I respect that to you right now it feels like a certain kind of situation and there's always two types of people, those that see it and react and those that want to be patient about it. Both types have a chance to be right. So maybe you're right and this is just as bad as people think it is.

For me I'd rather see how the community reacts past the first few days which is usually where you get the people who are all revved up and ready to swing hard in one direction or the other. I'd rather see people comment on this after the fanfare has cooled down. Doesn't mean I'll be any more right for doing so, just that I don't see much value in choosing to say the world is on fire because of this change.

Also it's not that I'm just waiting for people to calm down and have another look but I'm also waiting to see how people might change their builds up to deal with sorc as it is.

I don't rely on static or static's friends, or any other portion of the community because it's a big community with a lot of people out there so I'd like to give it time to observe.

Now that's not to say that I disagree that it's busted in the 1v1, because I do generally speaking agree. It's just that this game isn't about the 1v1 per the direction of zos so it's not really relevant to the bigger picture of the game as a whole.

React by 50% being sorcs, and 50% running wardens with shimmering shield and spell wall give or take whatever NB holdouts and massacis . Because it was bad enough having ranged abilities so close to melee damage abilities before; but to then also have easier recovery as well is just insane

See these are the kind of things I'm speaking of because if this did happen people would probably get bored of sorc on both ends and the environment might stabilize itself. It's just sometimes really hard to predict how these things will go once all players have had the same access over a period of time. Right now people will both be trying sorc and trying ways to deal with sorc so I'm curious to see where it goes and not ready to just jump on anything just yet

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

You are the class with arguably lowest crit chance stacking in the game

How are you claiming Sorc has the lowest crit chance when it gets Minor Prophecy as a passive lol. It's literally the 2nd highest crit chance class in the game, after NB. And don't tell me it's because of not having in class Major Prophecy. You can get that with potions or Inner Light on Magsorc (which is mandatory). Not saying it wouldn't be good to have an in class source of Major Prophecy, but you're exaggerating.

Idinuse wrote: »

Sorcerers have always had a tough time patching things together. You want to get over 1,400 mag regen? Bye bye speed or SD or something else. You want to get anything out of the Surge crit dmg heals? Try to stack crit chance at the expense of pretty much everything else. You are the class with arguably lowest crit chance stacking in the game. You want a burst heal of any kind? You have to slot a pet on both of your bars or go Vigor (as I have for years). You want penetration? Bye bye armor/spell/phys mitigation. You want major evasion? You have to go Medium armor, bye bye mag regen and penetration, and you can't use any set you want that isn't crafted or medium to begin with. It goes on...

Come one people. I get it that when your fav prey toughens up that one might get upset (while sitting behind mitigations of 95-98%, HoTs, burst heals, 200% speed buff, near endless regen, insane crit chances, perma CCs, near perma ulties and WD all at the same time), but come on. It is one burst heal. ONE. Please.

Jesus, magsorc is currently the tankiest spec in the game, in a full damage build. I honestly don't understand how people can blatantly defend this buff.

What would you expect people to do when they've been taking it on the chin for some time now?

Sorc is by no means truly weak but we have been weak in the defense area for some time.

I personally have lived with the following while playing pretty much solo.

Hard hitting nbs with overload skills that like to hunt in packs and can be fast and or heal with the best of them

Wardens that just won't die due to high health and a high health heal

Dks that hit like trucks but can tank several players

Templars that can both get me low and execute me reliably from across the map if I let my heals or los fall for even a sec

Procs that can melt me due to my lack of healing due to someone using two skills

Players that can hunt me down at speed even though I technically have the best mobility in the game

And Arcanist the best of the offenders pay to win class that locks you down like nobody's business while being ultra tanky because ZOS forgot to limit the shield amongst other things that can shred my stamina and health with dots I cant easily heal through.

All of this and I've never made one thread in this forum to complain because it just is what it is and I suck it up and just go play to have fun.

Yes I comment on threads made by others because I don't mind sharing my opinion and seeing the opinions of others but I've never truly complained or directly initiated asking for a nerf.

So yes I'm going to extend the same courtesy to sorc that I've extended to other classes that have been buffed over the years. I'll play the game and just learn to adjust as things go on over time

StaticWave

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

You are the class with arguably lowest crit chance stacking in the game

How are you claiming Sorc has the lowest crit chance when it gets Minor Prophecy as a passive lol. It's literally the 2nd highest crit chance class in the game, after NB. And don't tell me it's because of not having in class Major Prophecy. You can get that with potions or Inner Light on Magsorc (which is mandatory). Not saying it wouldn't be good to have an in class source of Major Prophecy, but you're exaggerating.

Idinuse wrote: »

Sorcerers have always had a tough time patching things together. You want to get over 1,400 mag regen? Bye bye speed or SD or something else. You want to get anything out of the Surge crit dmg heals? Try to stack crit chance at the expense of pretty much everything else. You are the class with arguably lowest crit chance stacking in the game. You want a burst heal of any kind? You have to slot a pet on both of your bars or go Vigor (as I have for years). You want penetration? Bye bye armor/spell/phys mitigation. You want major evasion? You have to go Medium armor, bye bye mag regen and penetration, and you can't use any set you want that isn't crafted or medium to begin with. It goes on...

Come one people. I get it that when your fav prey toughens up that one might get upset (while sitting behind mitigations of 95-98%, HoTs, burst heals, 200% speed buff, near endless regen, insane crit chances, perma CCs, near perma ulties and WD all at the same time), but come on. It is one burst heal. ONE. Please.

Jesus, magsorc is currently the tankiest spec in the game, in a full damage build. I honestly don't understand how people can blatantly defend this buff.

What would you expect people to do when they've been taking it on the chin for some time now?

Sorc is by no means truly weak but we have been weak in the defense area for some time.

I personally have lived with the following while playing pretty much solo.

Hard hitting nbs with overload skills that like to hunt in packs and can be fast and or heal with the best of them

Wardens that just won't die due to high health and a high health heal

Dks that hit like trucks but can tank several players

Templars that can both get me low and execute me reliably from across the map if I let my heals or los fall for even a sec

Procs that can melt me due to my lack of healing due to someone using two skills

Players that can hunt me down at speed even though I technically have the best mobility in the game

And Arcanist the best of the offenders pay to win class that locks you down like nobody's business while being ultra tanky because ZOS forgot to limit the shield amongst other things that can shred my stamina and health with dots I cant easily heal through.

All of this and I've never made one thread in this forum to complain because it just is what it is and I suck it up and just go play to have fun.

Yes I comment on threads made by others because I don't mind sharing my opinion and seeing the opinions of others but I've never truly complained or directly initiated asking for a nerf.

So yes I'm going to extend the same courtesy to sorc that I've extended to other classes that have been buffed over the years. I'll play the game and just learn to adjust as things go on over time

I expect people to be objective and recognize when a buff should or should not make it to live. I expect people who advocate for nerfing an over performing class keep the same level of consistency when it comes to their own class over performing.

Many Sorc mains like myself have been advocating for buffs to our class, but wouldn’t hesitate to say “that’s a little too much” when ZOS introduce a new buff that could potentially break the class.

And don’t divert the argument to “nerf this first then we can nerf ward” or “ sorc is finally catching up”. All are excuses and display a strong level of bias.

Jsmalls

I still think a HoT replacing the burst heal has potential to over perform itself. Specifically for proactive casting. Right now proactive casting only provides the shield. With a HoT you'd get that healing after they got through the shield (unless we're aiming to say the HoT is only active while the ward is active).

Then let's get into the finer details and say will the first HoT tick upon casting or a second after? Are we keeping the same scaling as previously so let's say 4-5k over 6 seconds? That's sounds extremely weak (granted better than the original version) so that would need to be adjusted to say 8-10k or so. Classes have burst heals to get them out of execute range. This isn't a traditional burst heal but it's purpose is the same, and it's currently doing that (I agree a bit too well). But vibrant shroud isn't comparable (in open world) to other classes burst heals. It's the same reason players don't run blessing of protection for their own burst heals, it's subpar.

I mean I wish we would have gotten to try different iterations on the PTS like we requested, but changing it to a HoT is going to need testing as well

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

You are the class with arguably lowest crit chance stacking in the game

How are you claiming Sorc has the lowest crit chance when it gets Minor Prophecy as a passive lol. It's literally the 2nd highest crit chance class in the game, after NB. And don't tell me it's because of not having in class Major Prophecy. You can get that with potions or Inner Light on Magsorc (which is mandatory). Not saying it wouldn't be good to have an in class source of Major Prophecy, but you're exaggerating.

Idinuse wrote: »

Sorcerers have always had a tough time patching things together. You want to get over 1,400 mag regen? Bye bye speed or SD or something else. You want to get anything out of the Surge crit dmg heals? Try to stack crit chance at the expense of pretty much everything else. You are the class with arguably lowest crit chance stacking in the game. You want a burst heal of any kind? You have to slot a pet on both of your bars or go Vigor (as I have for years). You want penetration? Bye bye armor/spell/phys mitigation. You want major evasion? You have to go Medium armor, bye bye mag regen and penetration, and you can't use any set you want that isn't crafted or medium to begin with. It goes on...

Come one people. I get it that when your fav prey toughens up that one might get upset (while sitting behind mitigations of 95-98%, HoTs, burst heals, 200% speed buff, near endless regen, insane crit chances, perma CCs, near perma ulties and WD all at the same time), but come on. It is one burst heal. ONE. Please.

Jesus, magsorc is currently the tankiest spec in the game, in a full damage build. I honestly don't understand how people can blatantly defend this buff.

What would you expect people to do when they've been taking it on the chin for some time now?

Sorc is by no means truly weak but we have been weak in the defense area for some time.

I personally have lived with the following while playing pretty much solo.

Hard hitting nbs with overload skills that like to hunt in packs and can be fast and or heal with the best of them

Wardens that just won't die due to high health and a high health heal

Dks that hit like trucks but can tank several players

Templars that can both get me low and execute me reliably from across the map if I let my heals or los fall for even a sec

Procs that can melt me due to my lack of healing due to someone using two skills

Players that can hunt me down at speed even though I technically have the best mobility in the game

And Arcanist the best of the offenders pay to win class that locks you down like nobody's business while being ultra tanky because ZOS forgot to limit the shield amongst other things that can shred my stamina and health with dots I cant easily heal through.

All of this and I've never made one thread in this forum to complain because it just is what it is and I suck it up and just go play to have fun.

Yes I comment on threads made by others because I don't mind sharing my opinion and seeing the opinions of others but I've never truly complained or directly initiated asking for a nerf.

So yes I'm going to extend the same courtesy to sorc that I've extended to other classes that have been buffed over the years. I'll play the game and just learn to adjust as things go on over time

I expect people to be objective and recognize when a buff should or should not make it to live. I expect people who advocate for nerfing an over performing class keep the same level of consistency when it comes to their own class over performing.

Many Sorc mains like myself have been advocating for buffs to our class, but wouldn’t hesitate to say “that’s a little too much” when ZOS introduce a new buff that could potentially break the class.

And don’t divert the argument to “nerf this first then we can nerf ward” or “ sorc is finally catching up”. All are excuses and display a strong level of bias.

To your credit you have chimed in on other classes needing adjustment I'll give you that.

I'm just more accepting of what ZOS has clearly shown itself to be and find that helps with my enjoyment of the game.

For you it seems to be still worthwhile to object even when they don't listen. You ever keep track of how many things you or other players ask for that they actually do vs the amount of things they do that nobody asked for or things like this where they do whatever they want no matter how much people ask them not to?

They simply do not generally speaking care what you or I say more than they care about their own views of what this game should be.

So when I say I'm giving it more time it's just a realistic approach when you're dealing with a situation where you have to accept what's happening and don't have any control.

You can say you were right all day and to some degree I agree but we still have to play the game, people still are going to play the game and adjust to this change just like they have been in the past.

Giljabrar

70 days played on sorc, one tricked it for years. I have a lot of PvP hours, Dueling, Cyro, Battlegrounds, you name it.

I came back because of the sorcerer buffs, but just as quickly, I'm probably leaving.

Sorc has been in a poor state for a while, in terms of healing/sustain. As others have pointed out, its glaring weakness was getting out of execute range with the lack of a burst heal (outside of pet, but gross, pet).

I have no idea, how anybody can justify giving Sorc a burst heal on their best defensive GCD they have access to.

We do need access to a burst heal besides the pet! But to put it on top of our ward, was moronic. I have no good solution to this, we're already starved for skill slots as it is.

I enjoyed Sorc in cyro for a day or so, but stalemating with all of the other sorcs around the map is just getting dull and boring.

This ward should never have went to live in its current state. I fought on the forums to get Arcanist shield nerfed, it would be hypocritical not to voice my concerns with the best defensive skill, my favorite class has ever gotten.

ZoS doesn't listen to player feedback anymore in PTS cycles, and this consistently destroys my enjoyment of this game.

See you all again in a year for some other crazy update that interests me for about a week.

Bushido2513

Giljabrar wrote: »

70 days played on sorc, one tricked it for years. I have a lot of PvP hours, Dueling, Cyro, Battlegrounds, you name it.

I came back because of the sorcerer buffs, but just as quickly, I'm probably leaving.

Sorc has been in a poor state for a while, in terms of healing/sustain. As others have pointed out, its glaring weakness was getting out of execute range with the lack of a burst heal (outside of pet, but gross, pet).

I have no idea, how anybody can justify giving Sorc a burst heal on their best defensive GCD they have access to.

We do need access to a burst heal besides the pet! But to put it on top of our ward, was moronic. I have no good solution to this, we're already starved for skill slots as it is.

I enjoyed Sorc in cyro for a day or so, but stalemating with all of the other sorcs around the map is just getting dull and boring.

This ward should never have went to live in its current state. I fought on the forums to get Arcanist shield nerfed, it would be hypocritical not to voice my concerns with the best defensive skill, my favorite class has ever gotten.

ZoS doesn't listen to player feedback anymore in PTS cycles, and this consistently destroys my enjoyment of this game.

See you all again in a year for some other crazy update that interests me for about a week.

The funny part about this is that this is the kind of stuff I'm talking about when I say give it time. People will jump on just to test it out and some will stay but some like you will just get bored and play other classes or leave. Though yeah I'm guessing this gets nerfed next patch into some people can live with

Would be funny though if this actually lead to an all time population low in pvp. Highly doubt it will though.

DrNukenstein

Just give it a ramping cost

Turtle_Bot

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

70 days played on sorc, one tricked it for years. I have a lot of PvP hours, Dueling, Cyro, Battlegrounds, you name it.

I came back because of the sorcerer buffs, but just as quickly, I'm probably leaving.

Sorc has been in a poor state for a while, in terms of healing/sustain. As others have pointed out, its glaring weakness was getting out of execute range with the lack of a burst heal (outside of pet, but gross, pet).

I have no idea, how anybody can justify giving Sorc a burst heal on their best defensive GCD they have access to.

We do need access to a burst heal besides the pet! But to put it on top of our ward, was moronic. I have no good solution to this, we're already starved for skill slots as it is.

I enjoyed Sorc in cyro for a day or so, but stalemating with all of the other sorcs around the map is just getting dull and boring.

This ward should never have went to live in its current state. I fought on the forums to get Arcanist shield nerfed, it would be hypocritical not to voice my concerns with the best defensive skill, my favorite class has ever gotten.

ZoS doesn't listen to player feedback anymore in PTS cycles, and this consistently destroys my enjoyment of this game.

See you all again in a year for some other crazy update that interests me for about a week.

The funny part about this is that this is the kind of stuff I'm talking about when I say give it time. People will jump on just to test it out and some will stay but some like you will just get bored and play other classes or leave. Though yeah I'm guessing this gets nerfed next patch into some people can live with

Would be funny though if this actually lead to an all time population low in pvp. Highly doubt it will though.

What's the bet it will be some stupid over nerf that kills the class again too (just like every other time sorc pops up for a patch).
I swear it seems like folks just want to hate on sorc and use it as some sort of punching bag to vent their frustrations about life/other things.

Also, I doubt the pops will fall away much at all over sorc being good, Mages (second only to assassins) is one of the most popular playstyles in fantasy games and MMOs.

Bushido2513

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Just give it a ramping cost

I voted no to that on NB so I'm going to say the same here.

I wouldn't mind a hot but I don't like how lazy healing ward 2.0 on steroids sounds. Eh I wish this had just been a more interesting buff

the1andonlyskwex

Bushido2513 wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Just give it a ramping cost

I voted no to that on NB so I'm going to say the same here.

I wouldn't mind a hot but I don't like how lazy healing ward 2.0 on steroids sounds. Eh I wish this had just been a more interesting buff

I think it would be interesting if the heal scaled based on the lesser of max health and Magicka instead of the greater of the two.

Bushido2513

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Just give it a ramping cost

I voted no to that on NB so I'm going to say the same here.

I wouldn't mind a hot but I don't like how lazy healing ward 2.0 on steroids sounds. Eh I wish this had just been a more interesting buff

I think it would be interesting if the heal scaled based on the lesser of max health and Magicka instead of the greater of the two.

Would be interesting though probably more of a gimmick since you don't really want to go below a certain threshold on either

Turtle_Bot

Bushido2513 wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Just give it a ramping cost

I voted no to that on NB so I'm going to say the same here.

I wouldn't mind a hot but I don't like how lazy healing ward 2.0 on steroids sounds. Eh I wish this had just been a more interesting buff

I would have liked to try out something that someone mentioned around the start of the PTS cycle:

Let the ward and heal equal a total value and have the ward/heal ratio adjust depending on how high or low your current health is.

e.g:
- At or above 90% its just a ward only
- At 50% its a 50/50 split
- At or below 10% its a heal only

If nothing else it would at least have been an interesting mechanic for no-pet sorcs self "burst heal"

the1andonlyskwex

Bushido2513 wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Just give it a ramping cost

I voted no to that on NB so I'm going to say the same here.

I wouldn't mind a hot but I don't like how lazy healing ward 2.0 on steroids sounds. Eh I wish this had just been a more interesting buff

I think it would be interesting if the heal scaled based on the lesser of max health and Magicka instead of the greater of the two.

Would be interesting though probably more of a gimmick since you don't really want to go below a certain threshold on either

It would discourage stacking one stat aggressively at the expense of the other, which would tone down the power level (without completely breaking the skill), and it might lead to some interesting maximization builds that wouldn't be desirable otherwise.

Bushido2513

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Just give it a ramping cost

I voted no to that on NB so I'm going to say the same here.

I wouldn't mind a hot but I don't like how lazy healing ward 2.0 on steroids sounds. Eh I wish this had just been a more interesting buff

I would have liked to try out something that someone mentioned around the start of the PTS cycle:

Let the ward and heal equal a total value and have the ward/heal ratio adjust depending on how high or low your current health is.

e.g:
- At or above 90% its just a ward only
- At 50% its a 50/50 split
- At or below 10% its a heal only

If nothing else it would at least have been an interesting mechanic for no-pet sorcs self "burst heal"

Yeah honestly this actually sounds more fun and with the right values would still allow sorc to have to be more engaged than the current braindead implementation.

Bushido2513

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Just give it a ramping cost

I voted no to that on NB so I'm going to say the same here.

I wouldn't mind a hot but I don't like how lazy healing ward 2.0 on steroids sounds. Eh I wish this had just been a more interesting buff

I think it would be interesting if the heal scaled based on the lesser of max health and Magicka instead of the greater of the two.

Would be interesting though probably more of a gimmick since you don't really want to go below a certain threshold on either

It would discourage stacking one stat aggressively at the expense of the other, which would tone down the power level (without completely breaking the skill), and it might lead to some interesting maximization builds that wouldn't be desirable otherwise.

Agreed it would definitely encourage some other types of builds though I'm not sure I'm ready to see someone try shields on stamsorc again though I understand we're all hybrid now so it's whatever

Theignson

StaticWave wrote: »

@Idinuse



58.8k mag, 31.8k hp, 22.1k stam, 1.9k mag recov and 1k stam recov before continuous, 3.7k spell dmg before continuous (can be improved if using spell dmg glyphs), 8.6k base pen, 24k phys resist, 27k spell resist, 2.9k crit resist, 15.4k ward, 9.8k burst heal.

Like I said, magsorc is busted. These stats can let you tank up to 9k DPS and deal 4-5k DPS. Don't believe me? Try it out yourself.

Static,
Can you explain Sorc damage calculation to me? I have seen a lot of Sorc builds with what looks like mediocre spell damage. How does the Magicka compensate? Is it better than SD, or the same? What's the formulae?
Bottom line, can a Sorc with 3.5k SD do big damage if they have that 55k magicka...how does it work (the formulaes have changed since I started in 2014 but I can't keep track of it)

StaticWave

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

70 days played on sorc, one tricked it for years. I have a lot of PvP hours, Dueling, Cyro, Battlegrounds, you name it.

I came back because of the sorcerer buffs, but just as quickly, I'm probably leaving.

Sorc has been in a poor state for a while, in terms of healing/sustain. As others have pointed out, its glaring weakness was getting out of execute range with the lack of a burst heal (outside of pet, but gross, pet).

I have no idea, how anybody can justify giving Sorc a burst heal on their best defensive GCD they have access to.

We do need access to a burst heal besides the pet! But to put it on top of our ward, was moronic. I have no good solution to this, we're already starved for skill slots as it is.

I enjoyed Sorc in cyro for a day or so, but stalemating with all of the other sorcs around the map is just getting dull and boring.

This ward should never have went to live in its current state. I fought on the forums to get Arcanist shield nerfed, it would be hypocritical not to voice my concerns with the best defensive skill, my favorite class has ever gotten.

ZoS doesn't listen to player feedback anymore in PTS cycles, and this consistently destroys my enjoyment of this game.

See you all again in a year for some other crazy update that interests me for about a week.

The funny part about this is that this is the kind of stuff I'm talking about when I say give it time. People will jump on just to test it out and some will stay but some like you will just get bored and play other classes or leave. Though yeah I'm guessing this gets nerfed next patch into some people can live with

Would be funny though if this actually lead to an all time population low in pvp. Highly doubt it will though.

Lol, the actual funny part is people were warned by PTS testers, but refused to accept it.

Why would anybody give time for something already warned to be broken to make it to live server lol. All you’re describing is just the consequence of an overperforming buff, which could have been prevented lol