Accepted - but that's what I mean with "that value alone" is not the hole picture.StaticWave wrote: »He could, and people could, but not in a full damage build. That's the big difference. Other classes would have to sacrifice major damage to heal through that kind of DPS. Sorc doesn't need to with Hardened Ward buff because the higher you stack max mag, the bigger the shield and heal, and also your damage. An 8-9k DPS build will have a ton of DoTs, which normal heals won't be able to heal through, but Hardened Ward can.
ok - accepted as wellStaticWave wrote: »Right, that was my original request, but I have changed my opinion on that after testing further on the live server with lower max mag builds.
Thats what I try to point outStaticWave wrote: »HPS will honestly not change that much
I'm totally fine with that!StaticWave wrote: »1) The Sorc will have to cast several wards until the HoT brings him out of execute range, which means more sustain is needed, which will prevent the Sorc from constantly doing 5k DPS without trying, and that's happening right now lol.
2) Spamming ward while waiting for the HoT to bring him out of execute range means the Sorc needs to play more carefully instead of tanking the damage and then getting a free out of jail card with Ward. There's actual counterplay and rewards good Sorcs with higher shield uptime
StaticWave wrote: »My friend tanked 6.2k DPS in a 6 minute 20s duel vs my maximum damage build, and still didn't break a sweat:
My damage:
His healing per second:
This was done with no Vigor on his part, and only 52k max mag. Shield is fine right?
StaticWave wrote: »We hate stalemate right? Why give Sorc special treatment because it hasn't gotten buffs? Let's keep some consistency here shall we?
Even at 39k max mag, I am still extremely tanky because of the burst heal on Ward combined with Vigor, Surge, and Blood Magic procs. The solution would be to either turn the burst heal into a HoT over 4-5 seconds, or reducing the burst heal value to 5% of max mag.
Let's keep some consistency here shall we?
Maybe Proc-Stam/Hybrid melee Sorc but no-pet magSorc not.dinokstrunz wrote: »We all knew this was going to be way too strong. ZoS as usual didn't listen to feedback. Sorc was already in a really strong position prior to U41.
Maybe Proc-Stam/Hybrid melee Sorc but no-pet magSorc not.dinokstrunz wrote: »We all knew this was going to be way too strong. ZoS as usual didn't listen to feedback. Sorc was already in a really strong position prior to U41.
Turtle_Bot wrote: »
This is why I (and many others) are having an issue with your tunnel vision on Hardened Ward specifically, even though we all actually agree with you that it is overtuned with the right max mag stacking build.
Yes, we agree with you that Hardened ward when max mag stacked to the extreme is an issue, but so are all the other burst heals (and healing in general) in this game when their scaling stats are stacked out the whazoo, hence why we are in the current tank meta that we are in and that tank meta isn't going away anytime soon.
So if we are going to try and get 1 of these abilities nerfed, then ALL OF THEM should be nerfed to the same level and at the same time too. As you said:
Turtle_Bot wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »We hate stalemate right? Why give Sorc special treatment because it hasn't gotten buffs? Let's keep some consistency here shall we?
Stalemate is an issue yes and the specific interaction of ward + battle spirit + scaling off max mag with a health cap only has its own thing to be sorted.
But to counter your question about why should we give sorc special treatment:
Why should we specifically target sorcs temporary health ability and not any of the other classes temporary health abilities?
If we are to tone down hardened ward such that it has a total "temporary health" capacity of say 12k in PvP, then why are we also not asking for the same thing to be done with offering, coag, HtD, Polar, RF, etc.
Why single out sorc only for finally catching up to what the other classes have been given as defensive/healing/temporary health tools and try to put sorc down again without also putting down all the other broken overtuned heals that are currently in the game and giving us our current tank/stalemate meta.Even at 39k max mag, I am still extremely tanky because of the burst heal on Ward combined with Vigor, Surge, and Blood Magic procs. The solution would be to either turn the burst heal into a HoT over 4-5 seconds, or reducing the burst heal value to 5% of max mag.
Taking your example of a 39k mag sorc with ward + vigor + surge + blood magic, that would net equivalent healing that other classes have such as:
- a 35k health warden with polar (not complete max health stacked but more than minimum 30k) + vines + lotus (excluding vigor)
- a NB with siphoning (passive component only) + offering + refreshing path (excluding vigor)
- a DK with ash cloud + coag + cauterize (excluding vigor/battle roar)
- a plar with ritual + HtD + rune + bubble
- a necro with RF + mender + vigor + scythe
- an Arc with runespite + runemend + runic defense (which is a massive heal that rivals max health polars that is on a 20 second set and forget timer that heals you automatically should you fall below 50% within that 20s duration).
All of these healing combinations the other classes have, all have their own benefits just like the sorc combo in your example:
- Sorc gets major brutality/sorcery + healing on damage + temporary bonus health
- Warden gets a bonus passive HoT on a heal that scales much higher than what I have listed + major prophecy/savagery burst heal on end (vines) + 10% max health
- NB gets passive and block-castable instant sustain + healing on damage (easier to proc than sorc) + a lot of free movement speed + ulti gen
- DK gets what is essentially a 15s set and forget periodic burst heal + execute scaling healing + double bar major prophecy/savagery + the biggest snare in the game (70%) + stam return
- Plar gets cleanse + sustain + armor buff + 40% snare
- Necro gets bonus resistances + unique mitigation
- Arc gets what is arguably one of the best set and forget burst heals in the game that also immobilizes enemies or grants CC immunity, generates crux (that buffs their whole kit) + grants a HoT or generates ultimate
This is unmorphed with only 30k health, on a health scaling heal, Arc typically sits at 40k+ as base
This is why I (and many others) are having an issue with your tunnel vision on Hardened Ward specifically, even though we all actually agree with you that it is overtuned with the right max mag stacking build.
Yes, we agree with you that Hardened ward when max mag stacked to the extreme is an issue, but so are all the other burst heals (and healing in general) in this game when their scaling stats are stacked out the whazoo, hence why we are in the current tank meta that we are in and that tank meta isn't going away anytime soon.
So if we are going to try and get 1 of these abilities nerfed, then ALL OF THEM should be nerfed to the same level and at the same time too. As you said:Let's keep some consistency here shall we?
Evasiveness is not a good enough reason to keep sorcs temporary health (i.e. healing/shielding) abilities below the other classes anymore.Any class can run vamp (in fact this is encouraged/mandatory with current undeath iteration) and slot mist form (blood mist is also another 20s DoT/HoT fyi combining mobility + healing + damage + vamp passives into 1 bar slot) or slot RaT or any of the many, easily accessible and globally available, movement speed options in the game currently to be able to teleport or sprint around with very high mobility and evasiveness.
1v1's are also not a good indicator of precisely how strong in the overall state of the game something is unless it literally 1 shots with 1 button press and nothing else. Every defensive tool is currently overtuned in a 1v1 environment, it's part of the reason for the tank meta we are currently in. 1v1 is good at saying yes, this ability is, in some way, too strong, but that does not say specifically how overtuned it is for every other form of PvP or when compared to what are the functionally equivalent abilities of the other classes.
Polar wardens, Arcanists, cloakblades, coag dks, bubble plars are prime examples of why 1v1 is not the best way to determine just how overpowered something is (as a defensive tool).
1v1 you aren't killing a polar warden unless they go afk and even then they'll probably live long enough to come back and heal up again. You're also not killing a DK or a cloaking NB that actually knows how to do more than just cloak and the only way a plar is dying 1v1 is if a NB straight up one shots them with 120+ ulti crit incap into crit MR.
So far the only real "unkillable" sorcs that I have seen in PvP are players that, quite frankly, would make even current necro look S+ tier if they actually bothered to put time into the bottom classes like necro and even they get killed if there are even a few good players who know what they are doing and have actual damage. 99% of the rest of the sorcs (the majority of the player base) are still very much killable and, quite frankly, fairly easy to kill since they just aren't at that same level of skill. The remaining 1% are typically just tanks that don't really pose much of a threat outside of going afk and can be simply ignored.
StaticWave wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »We hate stalemate right? Why give Sorc special treatment because it hasn't gotten buffs? Let's keep some consistency here shall we?
Stalemate is an issue yes and the specific interaction of ward + battle spirit + scaling off max mag with a health cap only has its own thing to be sorted.
But to counter your question about why should we give sorc special treatment:
Why should we specifically target sorcs temporary health ability and not any of the other classes temporary health abilities?
If we are to tone down hardened ward such that it has a total "temporary health" capacity of say 12k in PvP, then why are we also not asking for the same thing to be done with offering, coag, HtD, Polar, RF, etc.
Why single out sorc only for finally catching up to what the other classes have been given as defensive/healing/temporary health tools and try to put sorc down again without also putting down all the other broken overtuned heals that are currently in the game and giving us our current tank/stalemate meta.Even at 39k max mag, I am still extremely tanky because of the burst heal on Ward combined with Vigor, Surge, and Blood Magic procs. The solution would be to either turn the burst heal into a HoT over 4-5 seconds, or reducing the burst heal value to 5% of max mag.
Taking your example of a 39k mag sorc with ward + vigor + surge + blood magic, that would net equivalent healing that other classes have such as:
- a 35k health warden with polar (not complete max health stacked but more than minimum 30k) + vines + lotus (excluding vigor)
- a NB with siphoning (passive component only) + offering + refreshing path (excluding vigor)
- a DK with ash cloud + coag + cauterize (excluding vigor/battle roar)
- a plar with ritual + HtD + rune + bubble
- a necro with RF + mender + vigor + scythe
- an Arc with runespite + runemend + runic defense (which is a massive heal that rivals max health polars that is on a 20 second set and forget timer that heals you automatically should you fall below 50% within that 20s duration).
All of these healing combinations the other classes have, all have their own benefits just like the sorc combo in your example:
- Sorc gets major brutality/sorcery + healing on damage + temporary bonus health
- Warden gets a bonus passive HoT on a heal that scales much higher than what I have listed + major prophecy/savagery burst heal on end (vines) + 10% max health
- NB gets passive and block-castable instant sustain + healing on damage (easier to proc than sorc) + a lot of free movement speed + ulti gen
- DK gets what is essentially a 15s set and forget periodic burst heal + execute scaling healing + double bar major prophecy/savagery + the biggest snare in the game (70%) + stam return
- Plar gets cleanse + sustain + armor buff + 40% snare
- Necro gets bonus resistances + unique mitigation
- Arc gets what is arguably one of the best set and forget burst heals in the game that also immobilizes enemies or grants CC immunity, generates crux (that buffs their whole kit) + grants a HoT or generates ultimate
This is unmorphed with only 30k health, on a health scaling heal, Arc typically sits at 40k+ as base
This is why I (and many others) are having an issue with your tunnel vision on Hardened Ward specifically, even though we all actually agree with you that it is overtuned with the right max mag stacking build.
Yes, we agree with you that Hardened ward when max mag stacked to the extreme is an issue, but so are all the other burst heals (and healing in general) in this game when their scaling stats are stacked out the whazoo, hence why we are in the current tank meta that we are in and that tank meta isn't going away anytime soon.
So if we are going to try and get 1 of these abilities nerfed, then ALL OF THEM should be nerfed to the same level and at the same time too. As you said:Let's keep some consistency here shall we?
Evasiveness is not a good enough reason to keep sorcs temporary health (i.e. healing/shielding) abilities below the other classes anymore.Any class can run vamp (in fact this is encouraged/mandatory with current undeath iteration) and slot mist form (blood mist is also another 20s DoT/HoT fyi combining mobility + healing + damage + vamp passives into 1 bar slot) or slot RaT or any of the many, easily accessible and globally available, movement speed options in the game currently to be able to teleport or sprint around with very high mobility and evasiveness.
1v1's are also not a good indicator of precisely how strong in the overall state of the game something is unless it literally 1 shots with 1 button press and nothing else. Every defensive tool is currently overtuned in a 1v1 environment, it's part of the reason for the tank meta we are currently in. 1v1 is good at saying yes, this ability is, in some way, too strong, but that does not say specifically how overtuned it is for every other form of PvP or when compared to what are the functionally equivalent abilities of the other classes.
Polar wardens, Arcanists, cloakblades, coag dks, bubble plars are prime examples of why 1v1 is not the best way to determine just how overpowered something is (as a defensive tool).
1v1 you aren't killing a polar warden unless they go afk and even then they'll probably live long enough to come back and heal up again. You're also not killing a DK or a cloaking NB that actually knows how to do more than just cloak and the only way a plar is dying 1v1 is if a NB straight up one shots them with 120+ ulti crit incap into crit MR.
So far the only real "unkillable" sorcs that I have seen in PvP are players that, quite frankly, would make even current necro look S+ tier if they actually bothered to put time into the bottom classes like necro and even they get killed if there are even a few good players who know what they are doing and have actual damage. 99% of the rest of the sorcs (the majority of the player base) are still very much killable and, quite frankly, fairly easy to kill since they just aren't at that same level of skill. The remaining 1% are typically just tanks that don't really pose much of a threat outside of going afk and can be simply ignored.
And they should. I never said other burst heals shouldnt be nerfed lol. I’m not sure why you think otherwise, especially after many of my previous comments talking about NB.
I have a problem with people clearly ignoring how easy it is for mag sorc to stack 50k+ mag, which with Bastion provides a 13.5k shield and an 8k burst heal tooltip.
Why are you using the 30-40k mag argument? Nobody here is gimping themselves by stacking 30-40k mag. Let’s not pretend they aren’t stacking 50k-55k-60k mag. It’s a disingenuous argument to assume people are playing fair on Sorc when they could go the easy route and stack 59k max mag in Crafty/Rally, which btw provides 27k spell resist/24k phys resist, 3k crit resist, 59k mag, and 30k hp. Let’s not pretend people aren’t running that lol.
StaticWave wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »We hate stalemate right? Why give Sorc special treatment because it hasn't gotten buffs? Let's keep some consistency here shall we?
Stalemate is an issue yes and the specific interaction of ward + battle spirit + scaling off max mag with a health cap only has its own thing to be sorted.
But to counter your question about why should we give sorc special treatment:
Why should we specifically target sorcs temporary health ability and not any of the other classes temporary health abilities?
If we are to tone down hardened ward such that it has a total "temporary health" capacity of say 12k in PvP, then why are we also not asking for the same thing to be done with offering, coag, HtD, Polar, RF, etc.
Why single out sorc only for finally catching up to what the other classes have been given as defensive/healing/temporary health tools and try to put sorc down again without also putting down all the other broken overtuned heals that are currently in the game and giving us our current tank/stalemate meta.Even at 39k max mag, I am still extremely tanky because of the burst heal on Ward combined with Vigor, Surge, and Blood Magic procs. The solution would be to either turn the burst heal into a HoT over 4-5 seconds, or reducing the burst heal value to 5% of max mag.
Taking your example of a 39k mag sorc with ward + vigor + surge + blood magic, that would net equivalent healing that other classes have such as:
- a 35k health warden with polar (not complete max health stacked but more than minimum 30k) + vines + lotus (excluding vigor)
- a NB with siphoning (passive component only) + offering + refreshing path (excluding vigor)
- a DK with ash cloud + coag + cauterize (excluding vigor/battle roar)
- a plar with ritual + HtD + rune + bubble
- a necro with RF + mender + vigor + scythe
- an Arc with runespite + runemend + runic defense (which is a massive heal that rivals max health polars that is on a 20 second set and forget timer that heals you automatically should you fall below 50% within that 20s duration).
All of these healing combinations the other classes have, all have their own benefits just like the sorc combo in your example:
- Sorc gets major brutality/sorcery + healing on damage + temporary bonus health
- Warden gets a bonus passive HoT on a heal that scales much higher than what I have listed + major prophecy/savagery burst heal on end (vines) + 10% max health
- NB gets passive and block-castable instant sustain + healing on damage (easier to proc than sorc) + a lot of free movement speed + ulti gen
- DK gets what is essentially a 15s set and forget periodic burst heal + execute scaling healing + double bar major prophecy/savagery + the biggest snare in the game (70%) + stam return
- Plar gets cleanse + sustain + armor buff + 40% snare
- Necro gets bonus resistances + unique mitigation
- Arc gets what is arguably one of the best set and forget burst heals in the game that also immobilizes enemies or grants CC immunity, generates crux (that buffs their whole kit) + grants a HoT or generates ultimate
This is unmorphed with only 30k health, on a health scaling heal, Arc typically sits at 40k+ as base
This is why I (and many others) are having an issue with your tunnel vision on Hardened Ward specifically, even though we all actually agree with you that it is overtuned with the right max mag stacking build.
Yes, we agree with you that Hardened ward when max mag stacked to the extreme is an issue, but so are all the other burst heals (and healing in general) in this game when their scaling stats are stacked out the whazoo, hence why we are in the current tank meta that we are in and that tank meta isn't going away anytime soon.
So if we are going to try and get 1 of these abilities nerfed, then ALL OF THEM should be nerfed to the same level and at the same time too. As you said:Let's keep some consistency here shall we?
Evasiveness is not a good enough reason to keep sorcs temporary health (i.e. healing/shielding) abilities below the other classes anymore.Any class can run vamp (in fact this is encouraged/mandatory with current undeath iteration) and slot mist form (blood mist is also another 20s DoT/HoT fyi combining mobility + healing + damage + vamp passives into 1 bar slot) or slot RaT or any of the many, easily accessible and globally available, movement speed options in the game currently to be able to teleport or sprint around with very high mobility and evasiveness.
1v1's are also not a good indicator of precisely how strong in the overall state of the game something is unless it literally 1 shots with 1 button press and nothing else. Every defensive tool is currently overtuned in a 1v1 environment, it's part of the reason for the tank meta we are currently in. 1v1 is good at saying yes, this ability is, in some way, too strong, but that does not say specifically how overtuned it is for every other form of PvP or when compared to what are the functionally equivalent abilities of the other classes.
Polar wardens, Arcanists, cloakblades, coag dks, bubble plars are prime examples of why 1v1 is not the best way to determine just how overpowered something is (as a defensive tool).
1v1 you aren't killing a polar warden unless they go afk and even then they'll probably live long enough to come back and heal up again. You're also not killing a DK or a cloaking NB that actually knows how to do more than just cloak and the only way a plar is dying 1v1 is if a NB straight up one shots them with 120+ ulti crit incap into crit MR.
So far the only real "unkillable" sorcs that I have seen in PvP are players that, quite frankly, would make even current necro look S+ tier if they actually bothered to put time into the bottom classes like necro and even they get killed if there are even a few good players who know what they are doing and have actual damage. 99% of the rest of the sorcs (the majority of the player base) are still very much killable and, quite frankly, fairly easy to kill since they just aren't at that same level of skill. The remaining 1% are typically just tanks that don't really pose much of a threat outside of going afk and can be simply ignored.
And they should. I never said other burst heals shouldnt be nerfed lol. I’m not sure why you think otherwise, especially after many of my previous comments talking about NB.
I have a problem with people clearly ignoring how easy it is for mag sorc to stack 50k+ mag, which with Bastion provides a 13.5k shield and an 8k burst heal tooltip.
Why are you using the 30-40k mag argument? Nobody here is gimping themselves by stacking 30-40k mag. Let’s not pretend they aren’t stacking 50k-55k-60k mag. It’s a disingenuous argument to assume people are playing fair on Sorc when they could go the easy route and stack 59k max mag in Crafty/Rally, which btw provides 27k spell resist/24k phys resist, 3k crit resist, 59k mag, and 30k hp. Let’s not pretend people aren’t running that lol.
I'm not too good with my MagSorc, only AR25. Since my original was a melee DK, I was too prone to get in melee range and I was squishy, so I'd die.
However, last night I took my Magsorc into Zerodil and didn't die once. I hate to say it but Magsorc went from one of the most challenging class almost to easy mode with this change.
You said you can block cast ward earlier and of course you can, but the first 15k damage from it is a waste of stamina / magicka from blocking because it provides no mitigation yet still drains resources. So sure if you're anticipating 20k damage between block casting it sure blocking might help, but otherwise you're wasting your sustain for nothing.
I didn't understand what you said about suppressing DoTs with ward up? Can you clarify, to my knowledge ward takes all damage since the change to make sure status effects procs on shields many moons ago.
Going back to the important stuff.
Let's be consistent. Once again ALL classes healing needs adjustment not just this most recent hardened ward change.
You quoted a Sorc tanking 6.2k DPS but what was their damage output? I think you put most of your 4k dueling hours in many moons ago and dealing with 6k DPS while it is a lot it can EASILY be done as long as you're mainly defensive and likely have less than 2-3k DPS from your side of things.
But you said it shouldn't be able to be done in full damage gear. Which it wasn't.... It was done stacking what did you say 60k~ Magicka? That's not a full damage build. It's not using damage procs, it's not using crit damage, its not stacking crit chance. Stat stacking is the worst multiplier to provide to damage output. That's why so many classes run 25k primary stat and put everything into weapon damage, crit chance, and crit damage because it's better.
And if you have 60k magicka and decent recoveries then your weapon damage is lacking, which means you can't use proc damage sets because they ONLY scale on weapon damage.
At the end of the day I don't disagree that Ward and all other healing is too strong. But sacrifices are being made to hit those max stacks (even putting on crafty is a damage loss because there are better options).
And if you have 60k magicka and decent recoveries then your weapon damage is lacking, which means you can't use proc damage sets because they ONLY scale on weapon damage.
.
Bushido2513 wrote: »I'm not too good with my MagSorc, only AR25. Since my original was a melee DK, I was too prone to get in melee range and I was squishy, so I'd die.
However, last night I took my Magsorc into Zerodil and didn't die once. I hate to say it but Magsorc went from one of the most challenging class almost to easy mode with this change.
So when you say you didn't die what did you survive? A 12 man running negate and dc, 3 hard hitting NBs, one dk and two hard hitting bow builds, a large bomb with 3 vs procs?
Also when you didn't die was it to copious streak usage?
And lastly did you get many kills in group or on your own?
I ask all this because there's a difference in not dying and not dying while getting solo kills. As well as a difference in not dying and just getting out of there because a lot of classes and builds can currently do this with relative ease so I'm curious
Bushido2513 wrote: »I'm not too good with my MagSorc, only AR25. Since my original was a melee DK, I was too prone to get in melee range and I was squishy, so I'd die.
However, last night I took my Magsorc into Zerodil and didn't die once. I hate to say it but Magsorc went from one of the most challenging class almost to easy mode with this change.
So when you say you didn't die what did you survive? A 12 man running negate and dc, 3 hard hitting NBs, one dk and two hard hitting bow builds, a large bomb with 3 vs procs?
Also when you didn't die was it to copious streak usage?
And lastly did you get many kills in group or on your own?
I ask all this because there's a difference in not dying and not dying while getting solo kills. As well as a difference in not dying and just getting out of there because a lot of classes and builds can currently do this with relative ease so I'm curious
I was solo. I survived several keep battles where EP was over run and I was surrounded by hoardes of opposing faction. Normally I would have been blown to bits but the hardened ward kept me alive even in close quarters several times, even in melee range. I think I had 44 kills and 0 deaths before maintenance. Like I said I am not an expert sorc by any means. I will say it is fun to play sorc now, but OP builds are always fun...for a little while at least
Bushido2513 wrote: »I'm not too good with my MagSorc, only AR25. Since my original was a melee DK, I was too prone to get in melee range and I was squishy, so I'd die.
However, last night I took my Magsorc into Zerodil and didn't die once. I hate to say it but Magsorc went from one of the most challenging class almost to easy mode with this change.
So when you say you didn't die what did you survive? A 12 man running negate and dc, 3 hard hitting NBs, one dk and two hard hitting bow builds, a large bomb with 3 vs procs?
Also when you didn't die was it to copious streak usage?
And lastly did you get many kills in group or on your own?
I ask all this because there's a difference in not dying and not dying while getting solo kills. As well as a difference in not dying and just getting out of there because a lot of classes and builds can currently do this with relative ease so I'm curious
I was solo. I survived several keep battles where EP was over run and I was surrounded by hoardes of opposing faction. Normally I would have been blown to bits but the hardened ward kept me alive even in close quarters several times, even in melee range. I think I had 44 kills and 0 deaths before maintenance. Like I said I am not an expert sorc by any means. I will say it is fun to play sorc now, but OP builds are always fun...for a little while at least
StaticWave wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »I'm not too good with my MagSorc, only AR25. Since my original was a melee DK, I was too prone to get in melee range and I was squishy, so I'd die.
However, last night I took my Magsorc into Zerodil and didn't die once. I hate to say it but Magsorc went from one of the most challenging class almost to easy mode with this change.
So when you say you didn't die what did you survive? A 12 man running negate and dc, 3 hard hitting NBs, one dk and two hard hitting bow builds, a large bomb with 3 vs procs?
Also when you didn't die was it to copious streak usage?
And lastly did you get many kills in group or on your own?
I ask all this because there's a difference in not dying and not dying while getting solo kills. As well as a difference in not dying and just getting out of there because a lot of classes and builds can currently do this with relative ease so I'm curious
I was solo. I survived several keep battles where EP was over run and I was surrounded by hoardes of opposing faction. Normally I would have been blown to bits but the hardened ward kept me alive even in close quarters several times, even in melee range. I think I had 44 kills and 0 deaths before maintenance. Like I said I am not an expert sorc by any means. I will say it is fun to play sorc now, but OP builds are always fun...for a little while at least
They’ll just say “Sorc is now on par with other classes” lol..
I know for a fact if you had hopped on another class with the same level of experience as you have on Sorc, you would’ve died instantly.
Sorc is better than other classes right now. It’s the new NB.
Bushido2513 wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »I'm not too good with my MagSorc, only AR25. Since my original was a melee DK, I was too prone to get in melee range and I was squishy, so I'd die.
However, last night I took my Magsorc into Zerodil and didn't die once. I hate to say it but Magsorc went from one of the most challenging class almost to easy mode with this change.
So when you say you didn't die what did you survive? A 12 man running negate and dc, 3 hard hitting NBs, one dk and two hard hitting bow builds, a large bomb with 3 vs procs?
Also when you didn't die was it to copious streak usage?
And lastly did you get many kills in group or on your own?
I ask all this because there's a difference in not dying and not dying while getting solo kills. As well as a difference in not dying and just getting out of there because a lot of classes and builds can currently do this with relative ease so I'm curious
I was solo. I survived several keep battles where EP was over run and I was surrounded by hoardes of opposing faction. Normally I would have been blown to bits but the hardened ward kept me alive even in close quarters several times, even in melee range. I think I had 44 kills and 0 deaths before maintenance. Like I said I am not an expert sorc by any means. I will say it is fun to play sorc now, but OP builds are always fun...for a little while at least
They’ll just say “Sorc is now on par with other classes” lol..
I know for a fact if you had hopped on another class with the same level of experience as you have on Sorc, you would’ve died instantly.
Sorc is better than other classes right now. It’s the new NB.
So when you say another class it would really depend on the build, how inclined someone is to a class and what kind of people they are fighting/ fighting around.
So is sorc better than other classes?
Yes of course it is because every class is better than another class other than necro, no news there.
And NB was the new NB when it only had dk to compare to. Sorc compares to DK, Arcanist, NB, and plar to some degree. All of which are fairly strong.
Point is, this needs more time to bake before we can really say what's what.
Bushido2513 wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »I'm not too good with my MagSorc, only AR25. Since my original was a melee DK, I was too prone to get in melee range and I was squishy, so I'd die.
However, last night I took my Magsorc into Zerodil and didn't die once. I hate to say it but Magsorc went from one of the most challenging class almost to easy mode with this change.
So when you say you didn't die what did you survive? A 12 man running negate and dc, 3 hard hitting NBs, one dk and two hard hitting bow builds, a large bomb with 3 vs procs?
Also when you didn't die was it to copious streak usage?
And lastly did you get many kills in group or on your own?
I ask all this because there's a difference in not dying and not dying while getting solo kills. As well as a difference in not dying and just getting out of there because a lot of classes and builds can currently do this with relative ease so I'm curious
I was solo. I survived several keep battles where EP was over run and I was surrounded by hoardes of opposing faction. Normally I would have been blown to bits but the hardened ward kept me alive even in close quarters several times, even in melee range. I think I had 44 kills and 0 deaths before maintenance. Like I said I am not an expert sorc by any means. I will say it is fun to play sorc now, but OP builds are always fun...for a little while at least
They’ll just say “Sorc is now on par with other classes” lol..
I know for a fact if you had hopped on another class with the same level of experience as you have on Sorc, you would’ve died instantly.
Sorc is better than other classes right now. It’s the new NB.
Actually this depends on other factors. Some people are just naturally better with certain classes even if they don't have the experience.
NB is very powerful and I'm an experienced player but I'm mediocre or less most of the time on NB because I don't enjoy playing it.
So when you say another class it would really depend on the build, how inclined someone is to a class and what kind of people they are fighting/ fighting around.
So is sorc better than other classes?
Yes of course it is because every class is better than another class other than necro, no news there.
And NB was the new NB when it only had dk to compare to. Sorc compares to DK, Arcanist, NB, and plar to some degree. All of which are fairly strong.
Point is, this needs more time to bake before we can really say what's what.
Bushido2513 wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »I'm not too good with my MagSorc, only AR25. Since my original was a melee DK, I was too prone to get in melee range and I was squishy, so I'd die.
However, last night I took my Magsorc into Zerodil and didn't die once. I hate to say it but Magsorc went from one of the most challenging class almost to easy mode with this change.
So when you say you didn't die what did you survive? A 12 man running negate and dc, 3 hard hitting NBs, one dk and two hard hitting bow builds, a large bomb with 3 vs procs?
Also when you didn't die was it to copious streak usage?
And lastly did you get many kills in group or on your own?
I ask all this because there's a difference in not dying and not dying while getting solo kills. As well as a difference in not dying and just getting out of there because a lot of classes and builds can currently do this with relative ease so I'm curious
I was solo. I survived several keep battles where EP was over run and I was surrounded by hoardes of opposing faction. Normally I would have been blown to bits but the hardened ward kept me alive even in close quarters several times, even in melee range. I think I had 44 kills and 0 deaths before maintenance. Like I said I am not an expert sorc by any means. I will say it is fun to play sorc now, but OP builds are always fun...for a little while at least
They’ll just say “Sorc is now on par with other classes” lol..
I know for a fact if you had hopped on another class with the same level of experience as you have on Sorc, you would’ve died instantly.
Sorc is better than other classes right now. It’s the new NB.
So when you say another class it would really depend on the build, how inclined someone is to a class and what kind of people they are fighting/ fighting around.
So is sorc better than other classes?
Yes of course it is because every class is better than another class other than necro, no news there.
And NB was the new NB when it only had dk to compare to. Sorc compares to DK, Arcanist, NB, and plar to some degree. All of which are fairly strong.
Point is, this needs more time to bake before we can really say what's what.
This is a poor excuse advocating for inaction.
It took me all of 3 BGs in high MMR the first evening after the patch dropped to realize how massively broken sorc shielding is in PVP. It's faceroll easy to survive by activating 1 skill.
Activating a shield requires no skill. You just press a key. It completely shuts down your opponent. There is no counter play.
Also, if you're comparing to those other classes:
1. DK doesn't have the mobility that Sorc does
2. Arc doesn't have the mobility that Sorc does (and please don't cite that goofy teleport class skill as being comparable to Streak)
3. NB doesn't have the mobility that Sorc does. It has stealth, but stealth's counterplay is stealth detect skills / pots
4. Plar? Plar shouldn't even be on this list. No one complains about the class being imbalanced. The only thing that stands out about it is the ranged execute, which is great if you can get an opponent down to 25% HP or less, which the rest of the class kit isn't that strong to do
Right now, Sorc has not only by far the best mobility skill in the game, they have ludicrous shielding on top of that.