Hardened Ward heal making it to live is a mistake and needs to be changed

StaticWave

RomanRex wrote: »

Clearly the obsessive posting here doesn’t add up with what devs are seeing on the back end or we would have seen a change to Hardened Ward right out of the gate on PTS.

From what I have read, new scribing will allow people to destroy shields with ease making this change (burst heal) to Hardened Ward more important that ever. Very glad it hasn’t been touched for now.

1) Devs didn’t see it for WW and Necro either, so we can say those specs are good right?

2) Oblivion dmg will also go thru block, so everyone is affected, not just shield users.

3) The more the discussion goes on and the more you comment, the more I see the lack of experience on your part. No offense btw.

RomanRex

StaticWave wrote: »

The more the discussion goes on and the more you comment, the more I see the lack of experience on your part. No offense btw.

You are perpetually rude and throw ad hominem attacks at everyone on this thread who doesn’t see it like you do.

If you constantly have to say “no offense” you probably should keep it to yourself. Good life advice in general.

I don’t really care though, because I am not going to let it stop me from disagreeing with you. Every reply you post to me is an attack on me. I can point out the flaws in your logic all day.

RomanRex

StaticWave wrote: »

.
I’m sorry to say this, and I don’t mean to be toxic, but you are probably not playing at the level I’m playing at. All your comments have been pretty non constructive so far. And tbh, I’m quite tired of having to argue with people who clearly don’t understand the problem.

This is another example. If you have to say “I don’t mean to be toxic” you are being toxic. So keep that stuff to yourself. Thanks!

xylena_lazarow

RomanRex wrote: »

From what I have read, new scribing will allow people to destroy shields with ease

Pretty terrible game design to expect players to use their one scribe skill on something that's worthless against the other 6 classes (Arcs really don't care since the fat shield only lasts 1 gcd anyway), plus Sorcs heal more than Templars now.

StaticWave

RomanRex wrote: »

You are perpetually rude and throw ad hominem attacks at everyone on this thread who doesn’t see it like you do.

Only to people like you who come into a thread with zero intention of discussing a solution. I've actually been quite nice to some people who disagreed with me if they aren't arguing in bad faith, like Turtle Bot or Jsmalls, and actually came to an agreement.

RomanRex wrote: »

I don’t really care though, because I am not going to let it stop me from disagreeing with you. Every reply you post to me is an attack on me. I can point out the flaws in your logic all day.

Then point out the flaws in my logic? I'll gladly wait.

This thread has 25 pages and every single comment of mine has demonstrated these things:

1) I stated a claim
2) I provided my own evidence to support my claim
3) I discuss with people who may or may not agree with my claim
4) I come to an agreement or we disagree and move on

Then there's you, who occasionally appear in the thread to say things like this:

RomanRex wrote: »

Strongly disagree with OP.

I am a sorc main of many years. This change provides needed survivability in PvP without being overturned. I still die plenty but can now stay alive long enough to actually be competitive.

THANK YOU ZOS for this very appropriate and welcomed change.

There are just as many people who disagree with you

RomanRex wrote: »

I’ve not had any negative experiences against other sorcs so far with this going live. Theory crafting how to min/max into a perfect build is great, but impractical.

Most people won’t pour through logs to see how they can make their heals/dps bump a few more percentage points. You can do this with any class by the way, and claim a certain skill needs to be buffed/nerfed, it’s just sorc that is now in the limelight.

Most people who main sorc and play casually (like me) want more survivability without being over powered. Competitive and still engaging. That is exactly what this change accomplished. A big win for encouraging more casual players to engage with PvP.

Ignoring the top end of the player base lol.

RomanRex wrote: »

While the fervent concerns are clear, I have had no encounters with anyone in PvP made overpowered by these changes. Good players are still good players.

If there are videos of combat that begin to emerge demonstrating dual god-like survivability and DPS based on this skill alone, I will recant.

Until then this is hypothetical and not worth the amount of attention it has received. I am
grateful for the changes.

I provided several clips demonstrating "dual god-like survivability and DPS based on this skill alone", yet he hasn't conceded his statement xD

RomanRex wrote: »

Played all weekend. Cyro and BG’s. 100% didn’t see any overturned sorcs.

Between the complaints about necros here and wanting nerfs to other skills in the toolkit (ie, streak), it’s obvious that this is a sour grapes post that just won’t go away.

Only 3-4 people here are repeatedly advocating for the ward change being adjusted. As many are making equally valid of arguments for the opposite. Stop trying to make fetch happen. It’s not going to happen.

Using his own experience while disregarding other people's experiences with Sorc. Imagine trying to balance a game around "personal experience". Every single comment of yours has provided absolutely zero essence, CMX data, video clips, or anything tangible to be used as data to support your statement. It’s all personal anecdotes and what’s even more comical is you’re probably using the amount of “likes” on your comments to conclude you’re right 🤣. News flash, a lot of ppl on the forums are clueless about balance, and they’ll agree with whatever works for them lol.

There are many more examples of you coming to this thread to drop nonconstructive comments. Let me ask you did. You said you're a "high MMR" player and saw @IncultaWolf in a BG. You claim there aren't any issues with Sorc, then how come IncultaWolf is literally dominating the majority of BG matches he's playing on his Sorc, while barely having a few days of total playtime on the class?

You claim yourself to be a Sorc main, yet there's literally multiple people who hopped on Sorc for the FOTM train, who barely got time on the class, and even they said the class is busted? I have 5 years of experience on Sorc and even I see it's busted lol. It's either you're blatantly biased, or you aren't at the skill level you're claiming yourself to be, plain and simple.

RomanRex

Well, likes are certainly relevant. Many, many people disagree with you here based on their experience in game.

I don’t agree with your points based on my game play and that’s all that matters. Your evidence isn’t convincing to me and others here. I don’t see the PvP sorcs dominating the way your original post implied they would. Not sure what evidence you need for that.

I know that we run in the same circles but I am not going to give you my in-game info because I have a feeling you would try to constantly harass me to prove you are somehow better. It is a point you try to constantly go back to as though that makes your evidence any more valid.

Changes are based on the needs of all players, and many players don’t play the way you seem to think they do.

HowlKimchi

RomanRex wrote: »

Well, likes are certainly relevant. Many, many people disagree with you here based on their experience in game.

I don’t agree with your points based on my game play and that’s all that matters. Your evidence isn’t convincing to me and others here. I don’t see the PvP sorcs dominating the way your original post implied they would. Not sure what evidence you need for that.

I know that we run in the same circles but I am not going to give you my in-game info because I have a feeling you would try to constantly harass me to prove you are somehow better. It is a point you try to constantly go back to as though that makes your evidence any more valid.

Changes are based on the needs of all players, and many players don’t play the way you seem to think they do.

Popular opinion isn't always the correct stance though... Sure the playerbase are enjoying the hardened ward right now because it's extremely strong, but with the additional buffs the sorcs are getting in U41, I promise you that in a few months, public opinion on sorcs will be "too OP zos please nerf," and zos will end up nerfing the class to oblivion. It has happened before.

Also, regarding evidence, at least when one side presents evidence, there's an opportunity for debate and rebuttal. However, without evidence, there's no foundation for a meaningful discussion. How can we engage in a reasoned debate when it’s a matter of "here are the facts" versus "I feel like"?

StaticWave

RomanRex wrote: »

Well, likes are certainly relevant. Many, many people disagree with you here based on their experience in game.

I don’t agree with your points based on my game play and that’s all that matters. Your evidence isn’t convincing to me and others here. I don’t see the PvP sorcs dominating the way your original post implied they would. Not sure what evidence you need for that.

I know that we run in the same circles but I am not going to give you my in-game info because I have a feeling you would try to constantly harass me to prove you are somehow better. It is a point you try to constantly go back to as though that makes your evidence any more valid.

Changes are based on the needs of all players, and many players don’t play the way you seem to think they do.

1) Likes are relevant in what? Getting popularity? Sure. Balancing combat? I hope not. If likes were actually relevant, ZOS would be doing more changes for the player base. Necro would be getting buffed, and NB would be getting nerfed.

2) Also, what about the ppl agreeing with me outside of the forums? Literally hop in game and ask anybody if Sorc is broken and you’d most likely get a “Yes”. Not many people have a forum account or bother to argue lol. Just because a small amount of ppl disagree with me here doesn’t mean most people do. I can guarantee you there are more ppl who disagree with you in game than there are on the forums 🤣

3) Lol why would I harass you? You are thinking too highly of yourself. I’ve seen @Jsmalls in game accidentally and I haven’t messaged him since I ran into him. We both mostly disagreed with each other, fyi.

4) The reason I asked you to 1v1 in game is because you keep doing what a lot of ppl here do, and that’s dropping a comment with stuff like “sorc is fine” or “sorc is not OP”. I don’t care lol. You either post tangible data, or your statement is meaningless. It would be equivalent to me hopping in the nerf Cloak thread and saying “Nb is fine and not OP”, then leave without providing anything other than “my own experience”. It’s literally meaningless. So if you’re not going to post your own data, then the only way for me to see your credibility is to 1v1 you. It’s pretty obvious isnt it? You make a claim, you provide zero support for that claim. I don’t trust your credibility, I want to verify it. Simple as that

StaticWave

HowlKimchi wrote: »

Also, regarding evidence, at least when one side presents evidence, there's an opportunity for debate and rebuttal. However, without evidence, there's no foundation for a meaningful discussion. How can we engage in a reasoned debate when it’s a matter of "here are the facts" versus "I feel like"?

Yea, imagine if I also do the same thing he does.

RomanRex: “Sorc is fine and not OP. I don’t see any Sorcs dominating”

Me: “Sorc is too strong, I can’t kill top tier players anymore who I could kill last patch”

Both of us yapping about Sorc being OP or not, posting zero evidence, and using “likes” to win arguments 🤣🤣🤣 Literally a pointless thread if we do that lol.

Bushido2513

RomanRex wrote: »

Clearly the obsessive posting here doesn’t add up with what devs are seeing on the back end or we would have seen a change to Hardened Ward right out of the gate on PTS.

From what I have read, new scribing will allow people to destroy shields with ease making this change (burst heal) to Hardened Ward more important that ever. Very glad it hasn’t been touched for now.

I think this could be chalked up to bad implementation combined with lack of communication about what was coming in the future that would make the shield change possibly worth having.

At this point we have so much now to try to understand and see the effects of that the shield change pretty much floats to the bottom of priorities.

Bushido2513

HowlKimchi wrote: »

RomanRex wrote: »

Well, likes are certainly relevant. Many, many people disagree with you here based on their experience in game.

I don’t agree with your points based on my game play and that’s all that matters. Your evidence isn’t convincing to me and others here. I don’t see the PvP sorcs dominating the way your original post implied they would. Not sure what evidence you need for that.

I know that we run in the same circles but I am not going to give you my in-game info because I have a feeling you would try to constantly harass me to prove you are somehow better. It is a point you try to constantly go back to as though that makes your evidence any more valid.

Changes are based on the needs of all players, and many players don’t play the way you seem to think they do.

Popular opinion isn't always the correct stance though... Sure the playerbase are enjoying the hardened ward right now because it's extremely strong, but with the additional buffs the sorcs are getting in U41, I promise you that in a few months, public opinion on sorcs will be "too OP zos please nerf," and zos will end up nerfing the class to oblivion. It has happened before.

Also, regarding evidence, at least when one side presents evidence, there's an opportunity for debate and rebuttal. However, without evidence, there's no foundation for a meaningful discussion. How can we engage in a reasoned debate when it’s a matter of "here are the facts" versus "I feel like"?

Not sure you can promise that with the new OP scribing system coming. If I understand it correctly sorcs may very well need all the healing they can get. I'm thinking it will be more about such and such scribing skill is op and nerfing that and maybe then being back to feeling sorc is op but seeing some of the descriptions on the current scribing skills doesn't leave me feeling that sorc will be too op for long,

Correct, popular opinion doesn't always equate to a healthy game state. It's somewhere between popular opinion and back end data that only zos sees.

xylena_lazarow

Bushido2513 wrote: »

If I understand it correctly sorcs may very well need all the healing they can get.

Sorc's ranged toolkit and playstyle make it easily the best abuser of ranged nonsense like 41m range aoe knockback nukes and 41m range oblivion executes. No need to heal when you're the best at killing enemies from complete safety.

Galeriano2

StaticWave wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@StaticWave Vibrant Shroud can replace the matriarch now completely since that extra 3k was the difference between those both two .... time for a HoT sorc era peops

Right? Sorc just got massively buffed in the healing department lol

Was it buffed? Yeah. Was it massively buffed? Nah.

StaticWave

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@StaticWave Vibrant Shroud can replace the matriarch now completely since that extra 3k was the difference between those both two .... time for a HoT sorc era peops

Right? Sorc just got massively buffed in the healing department lol

Was it buffed? Yeah. Was it massively buffed? Nah.

I understand you may think it isn’t massive for magsorc, but for stamsorc it’s a massive defensive buff. For a class that’s themed around extreme mobility, that’s huge. This was my healing at 34k HP on the live server in a crit build:



Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP. Vibrant Shroud is currently crit healing me for 9.3k on live server at 31k HP. It’s going to crit heal for 12k next patch with Blood Magic proc.

Galeriano2

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@StaticWave Vibrant Shroud can replace the matriarch now completely since that extra 3k was the difference between those both two .... time for a HoT sorc era peops

Right? Sorc just got massively buffed in the healing department lol

Was it buffed? Yeah. Was it massively buffed? Nah.

I understand you may think it isn’t massive for magsorc, but for stamsorc it’s a massive defensive buff. For a class that’s themed around extreme mobility, that’s huge. This was my healing at 34k HP on the live server in a crit build:



Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP. Vibrant Shroud is currently crit healing me for 9.3k on live server at 31k HP. It’s going to crit heal for 12k next patch with Blood Magic proc.

Saying "Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP" is highly misleading. With battle spirit it won't be 3k unless You crit. It will be more or less like additional crit surge tick once in a while. Nice addition for stamsorc especially on more squishy hit and run versions of the class and somewhat ok addition for already beafy setups. It will be responsible for maybe maybe upwards of 10% of healing in whole fights. Definietly nothing that can be called "massive". I don't know why You are providing crit values like they would be guaranteed on every sorc setup there is.

StaticWave

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@StaticWave Vibrant Shroud can replace the matriarch now completely since that extra 3k was the difference between those both two .... time for a HoT sorc era peops

Right? Sorc just got massively buffed in the healing department lol

Was it buffed? Yeah. Was it massively buffed? Nah.

I understand you may think it isn’t massive for magsorc, but for stamsorc it’s a massive defensive buff. For a class that’s themed around extreme mobility, that’s huge. This was my healing at 34k HP on the live server in a crit build:



Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP. Vibrant Shroud is currently crit healing me for 9.3k on live server at 31k HP. It’s going to crit heal for 12k next patch with Blood Magic proc.

Saying "Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP" is highly misleading. With battle spirit it won't be 3k unless You crit. It will be more or less like additional crit surge tick once in a while. Nice addition for stamsorc especially on more squishy hit and run versions of the class and somewhat ok addition for already beafy setups. It will be responsible for maybe maybe upwards of 10% of healing in whole fights. Definietly nothing that can be called "massive". I don't know why You are providing crit values like they would be guaranteed on every sorc setup there is.

But it isn’t misleading lol. You’re assuming it’s under Battle Spirit, when I’ve never stated it was. The 3k heal is before Battle Spirit, which when combined with a 10k Dark Conversion or 9k Dark Deal, will give 12-13k heal tooltip. That’s equivalent to Healthy Offering’s low end tooltips. For a heal that also restores resources, it’s not bad. Then you also have Vibrant Shroud that can reach up to 12k in a full damage build, and when you combine it with Blood Magic you get a very strong heal.

I’ve already showed you the numbers. In my current build, my non crit Blood Magic heals for 1.7k and 3.6k crit. Vibrant Shroud heals for 5k non crit and 10k crit on the live server. So if you add those two values together, you get 6.7k non crit and 13.6k crit, which is massive for the utility it gives (Minor Vitality and Major Maim).

I’m probably the only person here who’s utilized Blood Magic to the fullest potential, so these numbers are very familiar to me. I even posted a video demonstrating the healing lol.

StaticWave

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@StaticWave Vibrant Shroud can replace the matriarch now completely since that extra 3k was the difference between those both two .... time for a HoT sorc era peops

Right? Sorc just got massively buffed in the healing department lol

Was it buffed? Yeah. Was it massively buffed? Nah.

I understand you may think it isn’t massive for magsorc, but for stamsorc it’s a massive defensive buff. For a class that’s themed around extreme mobility, that’s huge. This was my healing at 34k HP on the live server in a crit build:



Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP. Vibrant Shroud is currently crit healing me for 9.3k on live server at 31k HP. It’s going to crit heal for 12k next patch with Blood Magic proc.

Saying "Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP" is highly misleading. With battle spirit it won't be 3k unless You crit. It will be more or less like additional crit surge tick once in a while. Nice addition for stamsorc especially on more squishy hit and run versions of the class and somewhat ok addition for already beafy setups. It will be responsible for maybe maybe upwards of 10% of healing in whole fights. Definietly nothing that can be called "massive". I don't know why You are providing crit values like they would be guaranteed on every sorc setup there is.

Mate, Blood Magic is responsible for 15% + of your healing on average lol.

This is a build video I made last week.

https://youtu.be/6Zfo3sTDrUE?si=83xgwQ8chyI5zYlj

Fast forward towards the end where I did a test duel and you could see Blood Magic healing for 19% of my total HPS.




The only times when Blood Magic is healing for 10% or less js when you’re heavily kiting. If you are offensive, it should account for 15% plus of your healing.

This change will make Blood Magic even stronger for defense. It’s a fact lol. I’ve used it for 2 years and seen hundreds of CMX data to conclude this.

Galeriano2

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@StaticWave Vibrant Shroud can replace the matriarch now completely since that extra 3k was the difference between those both two .... time for a HoT sorc era peops

Right? Sorc just got massively buffed in the healing department lol

Was it buffed? Yeah. Was it massively buffed? Nah.

I understand you may think it isn’t massive for magsorc, but for stamsorc it’s a massive defensive buff. For a class that’s themed around extreme mobility, that’s huge. This was my healing at 34k HP on the live server in a crit build:



Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP. Vibrant Shroud is currently crit healing me for 9.3k on live server at 31k HP. It’s going to crit heal for 12k next patch with Blood Magic proc.

Saying "Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP" is highly misleading. With battle spirit it won't be 3k unless You crit. It will be more or less like additional crit surge tick once in a while. Nice addition for stamsorc especially on more squishy hit and run versions of the class and somewhat ok addition for already beafy setups. It will be responsible for maybe maybe upwards of 10% of healing in whole fights. Definietly nothing that can be called "massive". I don't know why You are providing crit values like they would be guaranteed on every sorc setup there is.

Mate, Blood Magic is responsible for 15% + of your healing on average lol.

This is a build video I made last week.

https://youtu.be/6Zfo3sTDrUE?si=83xgwQ8chyI5zYlj

Fast forward towards the end where I did a test duel and you could see Blood Magic healing for 19% of my total HPS.




The only times when Blood Magic is healing for 10% or less js when you’re heavily kiting. If you are offensive, it should account for 15% plus of your healing.

This change will make Blood Magic even stronger for defense. It’s a fact lol. I’ve used it for 2 years and seen hundreds of CMX data to conclude this.

Mate seriously?... You're using crystal weapon as spammable. Guess what, not everyone does that even when playing stamsorc and even less people will be doing it with scribing release.

If that wasn't clear enough for You I was talking about additional heal You will be getting from blood magic proccing of dark deal. For blood magic proccing of crystal weapon barely anything changes. Yes You will be getting the heal even when enemy dodges all Your weapon attacks for few seconds but You won't be getting the heal of the second tick of the ability.

Edit : After watching Your video my conclusion is that You will actually notice a significant nerf in blood magic healing coming from crystal weapon part. Around 40% of Your crystal weapon hits were coming from second tick of the ability which will not be proccing blood magic after the patch so assuming enemies were dodging less than 40% of Your crystal weapon casts You will be loosing some part of blood magic healing coming from crystal weapon. So instead of 15-19% of healing coming from blood magic procced of crystal weapon You may end up with 9-11% and additional healing You will gain from blood magic proccing of dark deal will have to compensate for Your loss first.

For example in that 1 minute duel at the end with 19% of healing coming from blood magic, when You went to healing section of cmx You had 18 procs of blood magic, 11 from 1st tick of crystal weapon and 7 from 2nd tick and You used dark deal 2 times so if that fight would be happening with new rules You would actually get 5 ticks less of blood magic resulting with almost 30% less healing from it ending up with around 13% of total healing instead of 19%.

RomanRex

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Definietly nothing that can be called "massive". I don't know why you are providing crit values like they would be guaranteed on every sorc setup there is.

100%… When “evidence” is proffered it is misinterpreted or cherry picked to make a point.

Nevertheless, it always helps prove the opposite point of what he/she is trying to make. 🤔

StaticWave

RomanRex wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Definietly nothing that can be called "massive". I don't know why you are providing crit values like they would be guaranteed on every sorc setup there is.

100%… When “evidence” is proffered it is misinterpreted or cherry picked to make a point.

Nevertheless, it always helps prove the opposite point of what he/she is trying to make. 🤔

Lol you still dodged a 1v1 tho 🤣

StaticWave

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@StaticWave Vibrant Shroud can replace the matriarch now completely since that extra 3k was the difference between those both two .... time for a HoT sorc era peops

Right? Sorc just got massively buffed in the healing department lol

Was it buffed? Yeah. Was it massively buffed? Nah.

I understand you may think it isn’t massive for magsorc, but for stamsorc it’s a massive defensive buff. For a class that’s themed around extreme mobility, that’s huge. This was my healing at 34k HP on the live server in a crit build:



Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP. Vibrant Shroud is currently crit healing me for 9.3k on live server at 31k HP. It’s going to crit heal for 12k next patch with Blood Magic proc.

Saying "Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP" is highly misleading. With battle spirit it won't be 3k unless You crit. It will be more or less like additional crit surge tick once in a while. Nice addition for stamsorc especially on more squishy hit and run versions of the class and somewhat ok addition for already beafy setups. It will be responsible for maybe maybe upwards of 10% of healing in whole fights. Definietly nothing that can be called "massive". I don't know why You are providing crit values like they would be guaranteed on every sorc setup there is.

Mate, Blood Magic is responsible for 15% + of your healing on average lol.

This is a build video I made last week.

https://youtu.be/6Zfo3sTDrUE?si=83xgwQ8chyI5zYlj

Fast forward towards the end where I did a test duel and you could see Blood Magic healing for 19% of my total HPS.




The only times when Blood Magic is healing for 10% or less js when you’re heavily kiting. If you are offensive, it should account for 15% plus of your healing.

This change will make Blood Magic even stronger for defense. It’s a fact lol. I’ve used it for 2 years and seen hundreds of CMX data to conclude this.

Mate seriously?... You're using crystal weapon as spammable. Guess what, not everyone does that even when playing stamsorc and even less people will be doing it with scribing release.

If that wasn't clear enough for You I was talking about additional heal You will be getting from blood magic proccing of dark deal. For blood magic proccing of crystal weapon barely anything changes. Yes You will be getting the heal even when enemy dodges all Your weapon attacks for few seconds but You won't be getting the heal of the second tick of the ability.

Edit : After watching Your video my conclusion is that You will actually notice a significant nerf in blood magic healing coming from crystal weapon part. Around 40% of Your crystal weapon hits were coming from second tick of the ability which will not be proccing blood magic after the patch so assuming enemies were dodging less than 40% of Your crystal weapon casts You will be loosing some part of blood magic healing coming from crystal weapon. So instead of 15-19% of healing coming from blood magic procced of crystal weapon You may end up with 9-11% and additional healing You will gain from blood magic proccing of dark deal will have to compensate for Your loss first.

For example in that 1 minute duel at the end with 19% of healing coming from blood magic, when You went to healing section of cmx You had 18 procs of blood magic, 11 from 1st tick of crystal weapon and 7 from 2nd tick and You used dark deal 2 times so if that fight would be happening with new rules You would actually get 5 ticks less of blood magic resulting with almost 30% less healing from it ending up with around 13% of total healing instead of 19%.

1) If you're a stamsorc not using Crystal Weapon you are throwing, unless you're in a Dizzy build.
2) I’ll lose 6% of the offensive healing but that’s fine lol. I’ll gladly trade it for the ability to proc it defensively.
3) 13% healing from being offensive is still super strong.

You will notice the Blood Magic healing buff on defense. The easiest way to test that is to weave Crystal Weapon while on back bar. I don't really want to explain that to you so just hop in game and test it out for yourself.

StaticWave

RomanRex wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Definietly nothing that can be called "massive". I don't know why you are providing crit values like they would be guaranteed on every sorc setup there is.

100%… When “evidence” is proffered it is misinterpreted or cherry picked to make a point.

Nevertheless, it always helps prove the opposite point of what he/she is trying to make. 🤔

You talk too much lol. Show me your evidence that Sorc isnt too strong

Galeriano2

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@StaticWave Vibrant Shroud can replace the matriarch now completely since that extra 3k was the difference between those both two .... time for a HoT sorc era peops

Right? Sorc just got massively buffed in the healing department lol

Was it buffed? Yeah. Was it massively buffed? Nah.

I understand you may think it isn’t massive for magsorc, but for stamsorc it’s a massive defensive buff. For a class that’s themed around extreme mobility, that’s huge. This was my healing at 34k HP on the live server in a crit build:



Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP. Vibrant Shroud is currently crit healing me for 9.3k on live server at 31k HP. It’s going to crit heal for 12k next patch with Blood Magic proc.

Saying "Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP" is highly misleading. With battle spirit it won't be 3k unless You crit. It will be more or less like additional crit surge tick once in a while. Nice addition for stamsorc especially on more squishy hit and run versions of the class and somewhat ok addition for already beafy setups. It will be responsible for maybe maybe upwards of 10% of healing in whole fights. Definietly nothing that can be called "massive". I don't know why You are providing crit values like they would be guaranteed on every sorc setup there is.

Mate, Blood Magic is responsible for 15% + of your healing on average lol.

This is a build video I made last week.

https://youtu.be/6Zfo3sTDrUE?si=83xgwQ8chyI5zYlj

Fast forward towards the end where I did a test duel and you could see Blood Magic healing for 19% of my total HPS.




The only times when Blood Magic is healing for 10% or less js when you’re heavily kiting. If you are offensive, it should account for 15% plus of your healing.

This change will make Blood Magic even stronger for defense. It’s a fact lol. I’ve used it for 2 years and seen hundreds of CMX data to conclude this.

Mate seriously?... You're using crystal weapon as spammable. Guess what, not everyone does that even when playing stamsorc and even less people will be doing it with scribing release.

If that wasn't clear enough for You I was talking about additional heal You will be getting from blood magic proccing of dark deal. For blood magic proccing of crystal weapon barely anything changes. Yes You will be getting the heal even when enemy dodges all Your weapon attacks for few seconds but You won't be getting the heal of the second tick of the ability.

Edit : After watching Your video my conclusion is that You will actually notice a significant nerf in blood magic healing coming from crystal weapon part. Around 40% of Your crystal weapon hits were coming from second tick of the ability which will not be proccing blood magic after the patch so assuming enemies were dodging less than 40% of Your crystal weapon casts You will be loosing some part of blood magic healing coming from crystal weapon. So instead of 15-19% of healing coming from blood magic procced of crystal weapon You may end up with 9-11% and additional healing You will gain from blood magic proccing of dark deal will have to compensate for Your loss first.

For example in that 1 minute duel at the end with 19% of healing coming from blood magic, when You went to healing section of cmx You had 18 procs of blood magic, 11 from 1st tick of crystal weapon and 7 from 2nd tick and You used dark deal 2 times so if that fight would be happening with new rules You would actually get 5 ticks less of blood magic resulting with almost 30% less healing from it ending up with around 13% of total healing instead of 19%.

1) If you're a stamsorc not using Crystal Weapon you are throwing, unless you're in a Dizzy build.
2) I’ll lose 6% of the offensive healing but that’s fine lol. I’ll gladly trade it for the ability to proc it defensively.
3) 13% healing from being offensive is still super strong.

You will notice the Blood Magic healing buff on defense. The easiest way to test that is to weave Crystal Weapon while on back bar. I don't really want to explain that to you so just hop in game and test it out for yourself.

1. It's purely Your opinion. On my stamsorc I don't use crystal weapon or dizzy and I am doing perfectly fine same as many other stamsorcs out there.

3. In provided example You're loosing 8% from offensive healing. 6% is overall loss after adding healing from dark deals proccing blood magic. Overall You're trading 8% of offensive healing to 2% of defensive healing. In reality it will obviously vary between fights.

3. Your offensive healing in that particular example would be sitting at 11%. And that healing it not something that You get from next patch changes, You already have that portion of healing right now. So there is no "massive" change. Your particular setup may even end up with less blood magic healing after the changes forcing You to use other heals more often or be defensive for longer which may cause a drop of blood magic healing percentages even further. Only setups who don't use crystal weapon as spammable will notice pure gain no matter what but as I said it won't be something massive.

StaticWave

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@StaticWave Vibrant Shroud can replace the matriarch now completely since that extra 3k was the difference between those both two .... time for a HoT sorc era peops

Right? Sorc just got massively buffed in the healing department lol

Was it buffed? Yeah. Was it massively buffed? Nah.

I understand you may think it isn’t massive for magsorc, but for stamsorc it’s a massive defensive buff. For a class that’s themed around extreme mobility, that’s huge. This was my healing at 34k HP on the live server in a crit build:



Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP. Vibrant Shroud is currently crit healing me for 9.3k on live server at 31k HP. It’s going to crit heal for 12k next patch with Blood Magic proc.

Saying "Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP" is highly misleading. With battle spirit it won't be 3k unless You crit. It will be more or less like additional crit surge tick once in a while. Nice addition for stamsorc especially on more squishy hit and run versions of the class and somewhat ok addition for already beafy setups. It will be responsible for maybe maybe upwards of 10% of healing in whole fights. Definietly nothing that can be called "massive". I don't know why You are providing crit values like they would be guaranteed on every sorc setup there is.

Mate, Blood Magic is responsible for 15% + of your healing on average lol.

This is a build video I made last week.

https://youtu.be/6Zfo3sTDrUE?si=83xgwQ8chyI5zYlj

Fast forward towards the end where I did a test duel and you could see Blood Magic healing for 19% of my total HPS.




The only times when Blood Magic is healing for 10% or less js when you’re heavily kiting. If you are offensive, it should account for 15% plus of your healing.

This change will make Blood Magic even stronger for defense. It’s a fact lol. I’ve used it for 2 years and seen hundreds of CMX data to conclude this.

Mate seriously?... You're using crystal weapon as spammable. Guess what, not everyone does that even when playing stamsorc and even less people will be doing it with scribing release.

If that wasn't clear enough for You I was talking about additional heal You will be getting from blood magic proccing of dark deal. For blood magic proccing of crystal weapon barely anything changes. Yes You will be getting the heal even when enemy dodges all Your weapon attacks for few seconds but You won't be getting the heal of the second tick of the ability.

Edit : After watching Your video my conclusion is that You will actually notice a significant nerf in blood magic healing coming from crystal weapon part. Around 40% of Your crystal weapon hits were coming from second tick of the ability which will not be proccing blood magic after the patch so assuming enemies were dodging less than 40% of Your crystal weapon casts You will be loosing some part of blood magic healing coming from crystal weapon. So instead of 15-19% of healing coming from blood magic procced of crystal weapon You may end up with 9-11% and additional healing You will gain from blood magic proccing of dark deal will have to compensate for Your loss first.

For example in that 1 minute duel at the end with 19% of healing coming from blood magic, when You went to healing section of cmx You had 18 procs of blood magic, 11 from 1st tick of crystal weapon and 7 from 2nd tick and You used dark deal 2 times so if that fight would be happening with new rules You would actually get 5 ticks less of blood magic resulting with almost 30% less healing from it ending up with around 13% of total healing instead of 19%.

1) If you're a stamsorc not using Crystal Weapon you are throwing, unless you're in a Dizzy build.
2) I’ll lose 6% of the offensive healing but that’s fine lol. I’ll gladly trade it for the ability to proc it defensively.
3) 13% healing from being offensive is still super strong.

You will notice the Blood Magic healing buff on defense. The easiest way to test that is to weave Crystal Weapon while on back bar. I don't really want to explain that to you so just hop in game and test it out for yourself.

1. It's purely Your opinion. On my stamsorc I don't use crystal weapon or dizzy and I am doing perfectly fine same as many other stamsorcs out there.

3. In provided example You're loosing 8% from offensive healing. 6% is overall loss after adding healing from dark deals proccing blood magic. Overall You're trading 8% of offensive healing to 2% of defensive healing. In reality it will obviously vary between fights.

3. Your offensive healing in that particular example would be sitting at 11%. And that healing it not something that You get from next patch changes, You already have that portion of healing right now. So there is no "massive" change. Your particular setup may even end up with less blood magic healing after the changes forcing You to use other heals more often or be defensive for longer which may cause a drop of blood magic healing percentages even further. Only setups who don't use crystal weapon as spammable will notice pure gain no matter what but as I said it won't be something massive.

1) Lol. "Purely your opinion". Let me guess, you're in Pale Order with mDW/Appetite? I can out heal your damage without those sets xD. That's how strong Blood Magic is

2) I am willing to trade the offensive healing for the defensive healing. The offensive healing is only really strong in 1v1s. Outside of that, defensive healing is way better. This change will buff stamsorc for Cyrodiil/BG wayy more, and that's what matters the most.

3) There is a massive change though. I'm not proccing Blood Magic when I'm actively kiting. I'll be able to proc it next patch with Dark Deal. I'm not proccing it when I use a burst heal, but I can next patch with Vibrant Shroud. The change is massive for stamsorc's defense.

Galeriano2

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@StaticWave Vibrant Shroud can replace the matriarch now completely since that extra 3k was the difference between those both two .... time for a HoT sorc era peops

Right? Sorc just got massively buffed in the healing department lol

Was it buffed? Yeah. Was it massively buffed? Nah.

I understand you may think it isn’t massive for magsorc, but for stamsorc it’s a massive defensive buff. For a class that’s themed around extreme mobility, that’s huge. This was my healing at 34k HP on the live server in a crit build:



Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP. Vibrant Shroud is currently crit healing me for 9.3k on live server at 31k HP. It’s going to crit heal for 12k next patch with Blood Magic proc.

Saying "Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP" is highly misleading. With battle spirit it won't be 3k unless You crit. It will be more or less like additional crit surge tick once in a while. Nice addition for stamsorc especially on more squishy hit and run versions of the class and somewhat ok addition for already beafy setups. It will be responsible for maybe maybe upwards of 10% of healing in whole fights. Definietly nothing that can be called "massive". I don't know why You are providing crit values like they would be guaranteed on every sorc setup there is.

Mate, Blood Magic is responsible for 15% + of your healing on average lol.

This is a build video I made last week.

https://youtu.be/6Zfo3sTDrUE?si=83xgwQ8chyI5zYlj

Fast forward towards the end where I did a test duel and you could see Blood Magic healing for 19% of my total HPS.




The only times when Blood Magic is healing for 10% or less js when you’re heavily kiting. If you are offensive, it should account for 15% plus of your healing.

This change will make Blood Magic even stronger for defense. It’s a fact lol. I’ve used it for 2 years and seen hundreds of CMX data to conclude this.

Mate seriously?... You're using crystal weapon as spammable. Guess what, not everyone does that even when playing stamsorc and even less people will be doing it with scribing release.

If that wasn't clear enough for You I was talking about additional heal You will be getting from blood magic proccing of dark deal. For blood magic proccing of crystal weapon barely anything changes. Yes You will be getting the heal even when enemy dodges all Your weapon attacks for few seconds but You won't be getting the heal of the second tick of the ability.

Edit : After watching Your video my conclusion is that You will actually notice a significant nerf in blood magic healing coming from crystal weapon part. Around 40% of Your crystal weapon hits were coming from second tick of the ability which will not be proccing blood magic after the patch so assuming enemies were dodging less than 40% of Your crystal weapon casts You will be loosing some part of blood magic healing coming from crystal weapon. So instead of 15-19% of healing coming from blood magic procced of crystal weapon You may end up with 9-11% and additional healing You will gain from blood magic proccing of dark deal will have to compensate for Your loss first.

For example in that 1 minute duel at the end with 19% of healing coming from blood magic, when You went to healing section of cmx You had 18 procs of blood magic, 11 from 1st tick of crystal weapon and 7 from 2nd tick and You used dark deal 2 times so if that fight would be happening with new rules You would actually get 5 ticks less of blood magic resulting with almost 30% less healing from it ending up with around 13% of total healing instead of 19%.

1) If you're a stamsorc not using Crystal Weapon you are throwing, unless you're in a Dizzy build.
2) I’ll lose 6% of the offensive healing but that’s fine lol. I’ll gladly trade it for the ability to proc it defensively.
3) 13% healing from being offensive is still super strong.

You will notice the Blood Magic healing buff on defense. The easiest way to test that is to weave Crystal Weapon while on back bar. I don't really want to explain that to you so just hop in game and test it out for yourself.

1. It's purely Your opinion. On my stamsorc I don't use crystal weapon or dizzy and I am doing perfectly fine same as many other stamsorcs out there.

3. In provided example You're loosing 8% from offensive healing. 6% is overall loss after adding healing from dark deals proccing blood magic. Overall You're trading 8% of offensive healing to 2% of defensive healing. In reality it will obviously vary between fights.

3. Your offensive healing in that particular example would be sitting at 11%. And that healing it not something that You get from next patch changes, You already have that portion of healing right now. So there is no "massive" change. Your particular setup may even end up with less blood magic healing after the changes forcing You to use other heals more often or be defensive for longer which may cause a drop of blood magic healing percentages even further. Only setups who don't use crystal weapon as spammable will notice pure gain no matter what but as I said it won't be something massive.

1) Lol. "Purely your opinion". Let me guess, you're in Pale Order with mDW/Appetite? I can out heal your damage without those sets xD. That's how strong Blood Magic is

2) I am willing to trade the offensive healing for the defensive healing. The offensive healing is only really strong in 1v1s. Outside of that, defensive healing is way better. This change will buff stamsorc for Cyrodiil/BG wayy more, and that's what matters the most.

3) There is a massive change though. I'm not proccing Blood Magic when I'm actively kiting. I'll be able to proc it next patch with Dark Deal. I'm not proccing it when I use a burst heal, but I can next patch with Vibrant Shroud. The change is massive for stamsorc's defense.

1. Yes it's purely Your opinion. And no, You guessed wrong. Also You're still talking about offensive blood magic healing which will be cut for You by quite significant margin.

2. If offensive healing is strong just in 1v1 than why You were making Your whole argumentation and numbers around it? it's almost like You provide only those pieces of the data that fits Your agenda at given moment.

3. I would reccomend You to check definition of word "massive". It states that massive means exceptionally large. Like I already said yes it's a change, yes in most cases positive but it's nowhere near being massive. Hardened ward change could be called massive and blood magic change is nowhere near that level.

StaticWave

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@StaticWave Vibrant Shroud can replace the matriarch now completely since that extra 3k was the difference between those both two .... time for a HoT sorc era peops

Right? Sorc just got massively buffed in the healing department lol

Was it buffed? Yeah. Was it massively buffed? Nah.

I understand you may think it isn’t massive for magsorc, but for stamsorc it’s a massive defensive buff. For a class that’s themed around extreme mobility, that’s huge. This was my healing at 34k HP on the live server in a crit build:



Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP. Vibrant Shroud is currently crit healing me for 9.3k on live server at 31k HP. It’s going to crit heal for 12k next patch with Blood Magic proc.

Saying "Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP" is highly misleading. With battle spirit it won't be 3k unless You crit. It will be more or less like additional crit surge tick once in a while. Nice addition for stamsorc especially on more squishy hit and run versions of the class and somewhat ok addition for already beafy setups. It will be responsible for maybe maybe upwards of 10% of healing in whole fights. Definietly nothing that can be called "massive". I don't know why You are providing crit values like they would be guaranteed on every sorc setup there is.

Mate, Blood Magic is responsible for 15% + of your healing on average lol.

This is a build video I made last week.

https://youtu.be/6Zfo3sTDrUE?si=83xgwQ8chyI5zYlj

Fast forward towards the end where I did a test duel and you could see Blood Magic healing for 19% of my total HPS.




The only times when Blood Magic is healing for 10% or less js when you’re heavily kiting. If you are offensive, it should account for 15% plus of your healing.

This change will make Blood Magic even stronger for defense. It’s a fact lol. I’ve used it for 2 years and seen hundreds of CMX data to conclude this.

Mate seriously?... You're using crystal weapon as spammable. Guess what, not everyone does that even when playing stamsorc and even less people will be doing it with scribing release.

If that wasn't clear enough for You I was talking about additional heal You will be getting from blood magic proccing of dark deal. For blood magic proccing of crystal weapon barely anything changes. Yes You will be getting the heal even when enemy dodges all Your weapon attacks for few seconds but You won't be getting the heal of the second tick of the ability.

Edit : After watching Your video my conclusion is that You will actually notice a significant nerf in blood magic healing coming from crystal weapon part. Around 40% of Your crystal weapon hits were coming from second tick of the ability which will not be proccing blood magic after the patch so assuming enemies were dodging less than 40% of Your crystal weapon casts You will be loosing some part of blood magic healing coming from crystal weapon. So instead of 15-19% of healing coming from blood magic procced of crystal weapon You may end up with 9-11% and additional healing You will gain from blood magic proccing of dark deal will have to compensate for Your loss first.

For example in that 1 minute duel at the end with 19% of healing coming from blood magic, when You went to healing section of cmx You had 18 procs of blood magic, 11 from 1st tick of crystal weapon and 7 from 2nd tick and You used dark deal 2 times so if that fight would be happening with new rules You would actually get 5 ticks less of blood magic resulting with almost 30% less healing from it ending up with around 13% of total healing instead of 19%.

1) If you're a stamsorc not using Crystal Weapon you are throwing, unless you're in a Dizzy build.
2) I’ll lose 6% of the offensive healing but that’s fine lol. I’ll gladly trade it for the ability to proc it defensively.
3) 13% healing from being offensive is still super strong.

You will notice the Blood Magic healing buff on defense. The easiest way to test that is to weave Crystal Weapon while on back bar. I don't really want to explain that to you so just hop in game and test it out for yourself.

1. It's purely Your opinion. On my stamsorc I don't use crystal weapon or dizzy and I am doing perfectly fine same as many other stamsorcs out there.

3. In provided example You're loosing 8% from offensive healing. 6% is overall loss after adding healing from dark deals proccing blood magic. Overall You're trading 8% of offensive healing to 2% of defensive healing. In reality it will obviously vary between fights.

3. Your offensive healing in that particular example would be sitting at 11%. And that healing it not something that You get from next patch changes, You already have that portion of healing right now. So there is no "massive" change. Your particular setup may even end up with less blood magic healing after the changes forcing You to use other heals more often or be defensive for longer which may cause a drop of blood magic healing percentages even further. Only setups who don't use crystal weapon as spammable will notice pure gain no matter what but as I said it won't be something massive.

1) Lol. "Purely your opinion". Let me guess, you're in Pale Order with mDW/Appetite? I can out heal your damage without those sets xD. That's how strong Blood Magic is

2) I am willing to trade the offensive healing for the defensive healing. The offensive healing is only really strong in 1v1s. Outside of that, defensive healing is way better. This change will buff stamsorc for Cyrodiil/BG wayy more, and that's what matters the most.

3) There is a massive change though. I'm not proccing Blood Magic when I'm actively kiting. I'll be able to proc it next patch with Dark Deal. I'm not proccing it when I use a burst heal, but I can next patch with Vibrant Shroud. The change is massive for stamsorc's defense.

1. Yes it's purely Your opinion. And no, You guessed wrong. Also You're still talking about offensive blood magic healing which will be cut for You by quite significant margin.

2. If offensive healing is strong just in 1v1 than why You were making Your whole argumentation and numbers around it? it's almost like You provide only those pieces of the data that fits Your agenda at given moment.

3. I would reccomend You to check definition of word "massive". It states that massive means exceptionally large. Like I already said yes it's a change, yes in most cases positive but it's nowhere near being massive. Hardened ward change could be called massive and blood magic change is nowhere near that level.

1) I will lose offensive healing, but I will gain defensive healing, which is better for Cyrodiil and BG, which I also do a lot of.

2) Because for any test to be reasonably accurate you need to have variable control. 1v1 is the easiest way to achieve this control. I can isolate the variables I want to test. If I want to test whether Ward is overperforming or not, I need to isolate it from random factors like a teammate giving me heals and skewing my defensive analysis, or a random enemy hitting me from stealth and killing me before I could react.

When that is done, I move on to BGs and test Ward there. Even then, it’s not going to be accurate because I kite a lot and Ward isn’t really necessary. I’ve done great before the Ward buff by purely relying on my kiting, so it’s not going to magically improve my gameplay for that specific playstyle. What it will do is make me a lot tankier when I jump into the chaos, and I have multiple clips of doing just that.

3) Now we’re just arguing semantics. A stamsorc that had to rely on being purely offensive to heal, which is not ideal when you are outnumbered, can now get an additional 1.7k healing in PvP from just Dark Dealing and kiting. It’s a huge defensive buff. On the PTS my Blood Magic was healing for 1.7k and 3.6k crit at 34.5k HP. Dark Deal at 9k tooltip was healing for 4.5k and critting for 7.4k. That’s a combined 5.2k non crit heal and 11k crit heal. It’s huge. Then take Vibrant Shroud which is healing me for 5.3k non crit and 9.5k crit. With the new buff it’s going to heal me for a combined 7k non crit and 13k crit. Not to mention AoE Major Maim. It’s a massive buff for stamsorc in terms of defense. The skill is competitive with other single target heals and still has the benefit of being fully AoE.

Sporigudinai

The discussion became boring

Galeriano2

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@StaticWave Vibrant Shroud can replace the matriarch now completely since that extra 3k was the difference between those both two .... time for a HoT sorc era peops

Right? Sorc just got massively buffed in the healing department lol

Was it buffed? Yeah. Was it massively buffed? Nah.

I understand you may think it isn’t massive for magsorc, but for stamsorc it’s a massive defensive buff. For a class that’s themed around extreme mobility, that’s huge. This was my healing at 34k HP on the live server in a crit build:



Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP. Vibrant Shroud is currently crit healing me for 9.3k on live server at 31k HP. It’s going to crit heal for 12k next patch with Blood Magic proc.

Saying "Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP" is highly misleading. With battle spirit it won't be 3k unless You crit. It will be more or less like additional crit surge tick once in a while. Nice addition for stamsorc especially on more squishy hit and run versions of the class and somewhat ok addition for already beafy setups. It will be responsible for maybe maybe upwards of 10% of healing in whole fights. Definietly nothing that can be called "massive". I don't know why You are providing crit values like they would be guaranteed on every sorc setup there is.

Mate, Blood Magic is responsible for 15% + of your healing on average lol.

This is a build video I made last week.

https://youtu.be/6Zfo3sTDrUE?si=83xgwQ8chyI5zYlj

Fast forward towards the end where I did a test duel and you could see Blood Magic healing for 19% of my total HPS.




The only times when Blood Magic is healing for 10% or less js when you’re heavily kiting. If you are offensive, it should account for 15% plus of your healing.

This change will make Blood Magic even stronger for defense. It’s a fact lol. I’ve used it for 2 years and seen hundreds of CMX data to conclude this.

Mate seriously?... You're using crystal weapon as spammable. Guess what, not everyone does that even when playing stamsorc and even less people will be doing it with scribing release.

If that wasn't clear enough for You I was talking about additional heal You will be getting from blood magic proccing of dark deal. For blood magic proccing of crystal weapon barely anything changes. Yes You will be getting the heal even when enemy dodges all Your weapon attacks for few seconds but You won't be getting the heal of the second tick of the ability.

Edit : After watching Your video my conclusion is that You will actually notice a significant nerf in blood magic healing coming from crystal weapon part. Around 40% of Your crystal weapon hits were coming from second tick of the ability which will not be proccing blood magic after the patch so assuming enemies were dodging less than 40% of Your crystal weapon casts You will be loosing some part of blood magic healing coming from crystal weapon. So instead of 15-19% of healing coming from blood magic procced of crystal weapon You may end up with 9-11% and additional healing You will gain from blood magic proccing of dark deal will have to compensate for Your loss first.

For example in that 1 minute duel at the end with 19% of healing coming from blood magic, when You went to healing section of cmx You had 18 procs of blood magic, 11 from 1st tick of crystal weapon and 7 from 2nd tick and You used dark deal 2 times so if that fight would be happening with new rules You would actually get 5 ticks less of blood magic resulting with almost 30% less healing from it ending up with around 13% of total healing instead of 19%.

1) If you're a stamsorc not using Crystal Weapon you are throwing, unless you're in a Dizzy build.
2) I’ll lose 6% of the offensive healing but that’s fine lol. I’ll gladly trade it for the ability to proc it defensively.
3) 13% healing from being offensive is still super strong.

You will notice the Blood Magic healing buff on defense. The easiest way to test that is to weave Crystal Weapon while on back bar. I don't really want to explain that to you so just hop in game and test it out for yourself.

1. It's purely Your opinion. On my stamsorc I don't use crystal weapon or dizzy and I am doing perfectly fine same as many other stamsorcs out there.

3. In provided example You're loosing 8% from offensive healing. 6% is overall loss after adding healing from dark deals proccing blood magic. Overall You're trading 8% of offensive healing to 2% of defensive healing. In reality it will obviously vary between fights.

3. Your offensive healing in that particular example would be sitting at 11%. And that healing it not something that You get from next patch changes, You already have that portion of healing right now. So there is no "massive" change. Your particular setup may even end up with less blood magic healing after the changes forcing You to use other heals more often or be defensive for longer which may cause a drop of blood magic healing percentages even further. Only setups who don't use crystal weapon as spammable will notice pure gain no matter what but as I said it won't be something massive.

1) Lol. "Purely your opinion". Let me guess, you're in Pale Order with mDW/Appetite? I can out heal your damage without those sets xD. That's how strong Blood Magic is

2) I am willing to trade the offensive healing for the defensive healing. The offensive healing is only really strong in 1v1s. Outside of that, defensive healing is way better. This change will buff stamsorc for Cyrodiil/BG wayy more, and that's what matters the most.

3) There is a massive change though. I'm not proccing Blood Magic when I'm actively kiting. I'll be able to proc it next patch with Dark Deal. I'm not proccing it when I use a burst heal, but I can next patch with Vibrant Shroud. The change is massive for stamsorc's defense.

1. Yes it's purely Your opinion. And no, You guessed wrong. Also You're still talking about offensive blood magic healing which will be cut for You by quite significant margin.

2. If offensive healing is strong just in 1v1 than why You were making Your whole argumentation and numbers around it? it's almost like You provide only those pieces of the data that fits Your agenda at given moment.

3. I would reccomend You to check definition of word "massive". It states that massive means exceptionally large. Like I already said yes it's a change, yes in most cases positive but it's nowhere near being massive. Hardened ward change could be called massive and blood magic change is nowhere near that level.

1) I will lose offensive healing, but I will gain defensive healing, which is better for Cyrodiil and BG, which I also do a lot of.

2) Because for any test to be reasonably accurate you need to have variable control. 1v1 is the easiest way to achieve this control. I can isolate the variables I want to test. If I want to test whether Ward is overperforming or not, I need to isolate it from random factors like a teammate giving me heals and skewing my defensive analysis, or a random enemy hitting me from stealth and killing me before I could react.

When that is done, I move on to BGs and test Ward there. Even then, it’s not going to be accurate because I kite a lot and Ward isn’t really necessary. I’ve done great before the Ward buff by purely relying on my kiting, so it’s not going to magically improve my gameplay for that specific playstyle. What it will do is make me a lot tankier when I jump into the chaos, and I have multiple clips of doing just that.

3) Now we’re just arguing semantics. A stamsorc that had to rely on being purely offensive to heal, which is not ideal when you are outnumbered, can now get an additional 1.7k healing in PvP from just Dark Dealing and kiting. It’s a huge defensive buff. On the PTS my Blood Magic was healing for 1.7k and 3.6k crit at 34.5k HP. Dark Deal at 9k tooltip was healing for 4.5k and critting for 7.4k. That’s a combined 5.2k non crit heal and 11k crit heal. It’s huge. Then take Vibrant Shroud which is healing me for 5.3k non crit and 9.5k crit. With the new buff it’s going to heal me for a combined 7k non crit and 13k crit. Not to mention AoE Major Maim. It’s a massive buff for stamsorc in terms of defense. The skill is competitive with other single target heals and still has the benefit of being fully AoE.

1. You will still loose overall healing. And the one You gain in defense is not something "massive". It's just the value of crit surge tick once in a while. It's not like You're gonna spam dark deal for half of the fight.

2. You are greatly simplifing what an "variable control" is. You seem to follow the logic that because duels allows You to test something more accurately You can project Your results onto entire PvP. That is a big mistake. It's like testing car tires on dry road and than projecting resuls onto all types of surface. Fact that You tested something in more controlable envirotment with more precise tools and You got more reliable results doesn't mean You now posses the data how tested thing will behave in all enviroments. It's the main reason why no matter how many duel screenshots You will post in this thread, many people will not take Your data seriously. Going by Your logic nightblade is complete trash class because the most popular setup right now which is archer snipe spammer/ganker wouldn't be able to win any fight in Bergama.

3. It's not me arguing about semantics it's You using words incorrectly and making that incorrect use of them a core of Your argument.

Bushido2513

Sporigudinai wrote: »

The discussion became boring

It's basically now down to just a couple of people talking publicly about something that now doesn't really matter as much at all when you consider the upcoming changes.

Basically ZOS knew what they were about to introduce so they happened to give sorc a bump it would likely need in the future to compete. No it's not a very elegant solution but in the coming patch it won't likely be very interesting at all.

Scribing will be obviously overloaded and will easily dwarf this change in ward even with the added healing from the passive. That's my guess anyways and I could be wrong but I doubt it.

StaticWave

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@StaticWave Vibrant Shroud can replace the matriarch now completely since that extra 3k was the difference between those both two .... time for a HoT sorc era peops

Right? Sorc just got massively buffed in the healing department lol

Was it buffed? Yeah. Was it massively buffed? Nah.

I understand you may think it isn’t massive for magsorc, but for stamsorc it’s a massive defensive buff. For a class that’s themed around extreme mobility, that’s huge. This was my healing at 34k HP on the live server in a crit build:



Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP. Vibrant Shroud is currently crit healing me for 9.3k on live server at 31k HP. It’s going to crit heal for 12k next patch with Blood Magic proc.

Saying "Every Dark Deal/Conversion cast gets an extra 3k heal at 30k HP" is highly misleading. With battle spirit it won't be 3k unless You crit. It will be more or less like additional crit surge tick once in a while. Nice addition for stamsorc especially on more squishy hit and run versions of the class and somewhat ok addition for already beafy setups. It will be responsible for maybe maybe upwards of 10% of healing in whole fights. Definietly nothing that can be called "massive". I don't know why You are providing crit values like they would be guaranteed on every sorc setup there is.

Mate, Blood Magic is responsible for 15% + of your healing on average lol.

This is a build video I made last week.

https://youtu.be/6Zfo3sTDrUE?si=83xgwQ8chyI5zYlj

Fast forward towards the end where I did a test duel and you could see Blood Magic healing for 19% of my total HPS.




The only times when Blood Magic is healing for 10% or less js when you’re heavily kiting. If you are offensive, it should account for 15% plus of your healing.

This change will make Blood Magic even stronger for defense. It’s a fact lol. I’ve used it for 2 years and seen hundreds of CMX data to conclude this.

Mate seriously?... You're using crystal weapon as spammable. Guess what, not everyone does that even when playing stamsorc and even less people will be doing it with scribing release.

If that wasn't clear enough for You I was talking about additional heal You will be getting from blood magic proccing of dark deal. For blood magic proccing of crystal weapon barely anything changes. Yes You will be getting the heal even when enemy dodges all Your weapon attacks for few seconds but You won't be getting the heal of the second tick of the ability.

Edit : After watching Your video my conclusion is that You will actually notice a significant nerf in blood magic healing coming from crystal weapon part. Around 40% of Your crystal weapon hits were coming from second tick of the ability which will not be proccing blood magic after the patch so assuming enemies were dodging less than 40% of Your crystal weapon casts You will be loosing some part of blood magic healing coming from crystal weapon. So instead of 15-19% of healing coming from blood magic procced of crystal weapon You may end up with 9-11% and additional healing You will gain from blood magic proccing of dark deal will have to compensate for Your loss first.

For example in that 1 minute duel at the end with 19% of healing coming from blood magic, when You went to healing section of cmx You had 18 procs of blood magic, 11 from 1st tick of crystal weapon and 7 from 2nd tick and You used dark deal 2 times so if that fight would be happening with new rules You would actually get 5 ticks less of blood magic resulting with almost 30% less healing from it ending up with around 13% of total healing instead of 19%.

1) If you're a stamsorc not using Crystal Weapon you are throwing, unless you're in a Dizzy build.
2) I’ll lose 6% of the offensive healing but that’s fine lol. I’ll gladly trade it for the ability to proc it defensively.
3) 13% healing from being offensive is still super strong.

You will notice the Blood Magic healing buff on defense. The easiest way to test that is to weave Crystal Weapon while on back bar. I don't really want to explain that to you so just hop in game and test it out for yourself.

1. It's purely Your opinion. On my stamsorc I don't use crystal weapon or dizzy and I am doing perfectly fine same as many other stamsorcs out there.

3. In provided example You're loosing 8% from offensive healing. 6% is overall loss after adding healing from dark deals proccing blood magic. Overall You're trading 8% of offensive healing to 2% of defensive healing. In reality it will obviously vary between fights.

3. Your offensive healing in that particular example would be sitting at 11%. And that healing it not something that You get from next patch changes, You already have that portion of healing right now. So there is no "massive" change. Your particular setup may even end up with less blood magic healing after the changes forcing You to use other heals more often or be defensive for longer which may cause a drop of blood magic healing percentages even further. Only setups who don't use crystal weapon as spammable will notice pure gain no matter what but as I said it won't be something massive.

1) Lol. "Purely your opinion". Let me guess, you're in Pale Order with mDW/Appetite? I can out heal your damage without those sets xD. That's how strong Blood Magic is

2) I am willing to trade the offensive healing for the defensive healing. The offensive healing is only really strong in 1v1s. Outside of that, defensive healing is way better. This change will buff stamsorc for Cyrodiil/BG wayy more, and that's what matters the most.

3) There is a massive change though. I'm not proccing Blood Magic when I'm actively kiting. I'll be able to proc it next patch with Dark Deal. I'm not proccing it when I use a burst heal, but I can next patch with Vibrant Shroud. The change is massive for stamsorc's defense.

1. Yes it's purely Your opinion. And no, You guessed wrong. Also You're still talking about offensive blood magic healing which will be cut for You by quite significant margin.

2. If offensive healing is strong just in 1v1 than why You were making Your whole argumentation and numbers around it? it's almost like You provide only those pieces of the data that fits Your agenda at given moment.

3. I would reccomend You to check definition of word "massive". It states that massive means exceptionally large. Like I already said yes it's a change, yes in most cases positive but it's nowhere near being massive. Hardened ward change could be called massive and blood magic change is nowhere near that level.

1) I will lose offensive healing, but I will gain defensive healing, which is better for Cyrodiil and BG, which I also do a lot of.

2) Because for any test to be reasonably accurate you need to have variable control. 1v1 is the easiest way to achieve this control. I can isolate the variables I want to test. If I want to test whether Ward is overperforming or not, I need to isolate it from random factors like a teammate giving me heals and skewing my defensive analysis, or a random enemy hitting me from stealth and killing me before I could react.

When that is done, I move on to BGs and test Ward there. Even then, it’s not going to be accurate because I kite a lot and Ward isn’t really necessary. I’ve done great before the Ward buff by purely relying on my kiting, so it’s not going to magically improve my gameplay for that specific playstyle. What it will do is make me a lot tankier when I jump into the chaos, and I have multiple clips of doing just that.

3) Now we’re just arguing semantics. A stamsorc that had to rely on being purely offensive to heal, which is not ideal when you are outnumbered, can now get an additional 1.7k healing in PvP from just Dark Dealing and kiting. It’s a huge defensive buff. On the PTS my Blood Magic was healing for 1.7k and 3.6k crit at 34.5k HP. Dark Deal at 9k tooltip was healing for 4.5k and critting for 7.4k. That’s a combined 5.2k non crit heal and 11k crit heal. It’s huge. Then take Vibrant Shroud which is healing me for 5.3k non crit and 9.5k crit. With the new buff it’s going to heal me for a combined 7k non crit and 13k crit. Not to mention AoE Major Maim. It’s a massive buff for stamsorc in terms of defense. The skill is competitive with other single target heals and still has the benefit of being fully AoE.

1. You will still loose overall healing. And the one You gain in defense is not something "massive". It's just the value of crit surge tick once in a while. It's not like You're gonna spam dark deal for half of the fight.

2. You are greatly simplifing what an "variable control" is. You seem to follow the logic that because duels allows You to test something more accurately You can project Your results onto entire PvP. That is a big mistake. It's like testing car tires on dry road and than projecting resuls onto all types of surface. Fact that You tested something in more controlable envirotment with more precise tools and You got more reliable results doesn't mean You now posses the data how tested thing will behave in all enviroments. It's the main reason why no matter how many duel screenshots You will post in this thread, many people will not take Your data seriously. Going by Your logic nightblade is complete trash class because the most popular setup right now which is archer snipe spammer/ganker wouldn't be able to win any fight in Bergama.

3. It's not me arguing about semantics it's You using words incorrectly and making that incorrect use of them a core of Your argument.

1) In a 1v1 I will, but not in a 1vX. I don't weave Crystal Weapon as much in 1vX and use Dark Deal/Vibrant Shroud a lot more.

2) The 1st stage of testing is 1v1, then 2nd stage BG, and final stage Cyrodiil. You seem to missed the 2nd part of this point when I said:

StaticWave wrote: »

When that is done, I move on to BGs and test Ward there. Even then, it’s not going to be accurate because I kite a lot and Ward isn’t really necessary. I’ve done great before the Ward buff by purely relying on my kiting, so it’s not going to magically improve my gameplay for that specific playstyle. What it will do is make me a lot tankier when I jump into the chaos, and I have multiple clips of doing just that.

I don't think I could be clearer than that.

3) It is semantics, and even if it wasn't, it's still better than ppl arguing with zero data lol.