Hardened Ward heal making it to live is a mistake and needs to be changed

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

The arguments probably seem more complex or even meaningless to you because you think someone should be binary when the situation is not exactly that.

It's funny to watch people try to boil a complex issue down to something they can more so easily digest even if the issue is requires complex thinking.

This ain't rocket science lol. Ward is either overperforming, underperforming, or balanced. You come to a conclusion by doing these tests:

- Test 1: Use Ward in a 1v1 environment
- Test 2: Use Ward in a small scale environment
- Test 3: Use Ward in a large scale environment

Skill difference is removed from all 3 tests because it is the biggest obstruction to an accurate analysis. If you want to test whether X car is faster than Y car around corners, you don't want a slow driver on X car and a fast driver on Y car. You want both drivers to be as skilled as possible. You also don't want random factors that could skew the analysis, like a slippery road or an unseen object in the middle of the road, so you organize the test in a controlled environment, which is a race track.

Apply the same logic to ESO. Test 1 can be done with dueling. Test 2 can be done with GvGs with group size less than 5 players. Test 3 can be done in Cyrodiil or IC with capped group sizes. I've posted multiple samples of Test 1 and Test 2. Test 3 requires setting up large groups, and quite frankly it's not worth the time for me to do so. However, you can take a look at an Arcanist giving shields to group members and see how potent a shield can be in a large group setting. All tests must be controlled though. The moment you throw random variables like a ganker doing 30k dmg from stealth or a zerg of 20 ppl approaching you, then the test is meaningless. No amount of shielding or block-healing is going to save you from those scenarios. But I've seen a few people use this to argue in favor of Ward, and that's an argument of bad faith.

Test 2 and 3 are as random as it gets though! In your car analogy that's like testing how fast each car is and how well they handle on public roads at random times of the day.

There isn't a way to really rest reliably in multiple opponent scenarios because there are just sooooo many variations you'd need to test repeatedly with so many factors.

In your car analogy that's like trying to compare but if all cars could trade out parts that you wouldn't be able to know about and were only using 20 to 30 percent of the parts available to them. You'll get data but it's not going to be very useful for accurately balancing future race conditions.

Which is why I use Test 1 as a basis for my analysis lol. We go straight back to square one on this 🤣

Yeah test 1 is perfectly reliable and repeatable so nobody can push back there.

But test one does not at all properly scale across test 2 and 3

This is why you can have some that are great at 1vx but not at dueling and some that are great at dueling but don't excel at 1vx. Even though some will say 1vx is just a series of 1v1s.

Proper testing needs to account for an appropriate degree of randomization and variables which this game has a lot of. That's why I think we need basically all the data to be at all accurate.


Look, I think this iteration of ward is dumb and a misuse is development time when we clearly needed other better changes for magsorc.

I can also see how useful it can be to others beside myself and appreciate it is we're not getting anything else.

As an evaluation though I think it's less busted in the context of the overall game then some would make it out to be.

I do sometimes appreciate the extra survivability however the implementation does often bother me because it could be much better.

That being said sorcs aren't bothersome at all to me in pvp so the shield change hasn't made me want to quit the game altogether but more so take a large step back and again not because I am just running into a bunch of sorcs or that I mind sorcs I can't kill but more so because we could hand used a better change altogether.

So I'm ok if it gets nerfed or stays the same or if just redone. I'm not neutral on it though, just have a complex view of the issue that leads me to see importance on both sides.

xylena_lazarow

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Look, I think this iteration of ward is dumb and a misuse is development time when we clearly needed other better changes for magsorc.

HOORAY we did it!

Crossed my mind that one thing they could do to help casual Sorc players while fixing Ward's top end: alter the scaling to raise the floor and lower the ceiling like the devs used to say. Let Ward start off a little stronger so casual 30k max mag builds get better, while heavily nerfing how it scales so it's not worth stacking 60k max mag for only a slightly bigger shield. If they're dead set on having it heal, maybe set a fixed heal value for it like they did with Surge and Dark Exchange.

Extreme single-stat minmax builds should be a meme, not BIS, they serve only to widen the build gap between casuals and minmaxers (who usually already have a huge fighting skill advantage and simply don't need such builds to succeed).

xylena_lazarow

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

If they're dead set on having it heal, maybe set a fixed heal value for it like they did with Surge and Dark Exchange.

Sorry for the double post but this also illustrates perfectly why the original dev team chose to use fixed non-scaling values for Surge and Dark Deal: they really did NOT want those two heals scaling up with stacked max mag, because weaker healing was the intended balancing factor for such powerful shields. If a Sorc wanted stronger healing they had to give up a big chunk of their build to run a Resto Staff or a healing proc set, which was generally fair.

Bushido2513

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Look, I think this iteration of ward is dumb and a misuse is development time when we clearly needed other better changes for magsorc.

HOORAY we did it!

Crossed my mind that one thing they could do to help casual Sorc players while fixing Ward's top end: alter the scaling to raise the floor and lower the ceiling like the devs used to say. Let Ward start off a little stronger so casual 30k max mag builds get better, while heavily nerfing how it scales so it's not worth stacking 60k max mag for only a slightly bigger shield. If they're dead set on having it heal, maybe set a fixed heal value for it like they did with Surge and Dark Exchange.

Extreme single-stat minmax builds should be a meme, not BIS, they serve only to widen the build gap between casuals and minmaxers (who usually already have a huge fighting skill advantage and simply don't need such builds to succeed).

I knew someone would try to quote just that one section and leave out the rest 😂

StaticWave

5 minute duel vs a DK. Here is the CMX data:

My DPS:



His DPS:


My HPS:



44k HP, 28.9k spell resist, 28.1k physical resist, crit resist doesn't matter because the DK was in Malacath. Defensive blue CPs were Duelist Rebuff and Focused Mending.

Hardened Ward accounted for 33% of the total HPS. Surge + Vigor + Blood Magic accounted for 50%. I used the shield to eat the DK's DoTs and weave Crystal Weapon with Vigor to proc 3 HoTs.

Using the average values, if none of the HoTs crit, I would get a 5.6k heal. Combined with average value of Ward heal, that's a 9.4k total heal you can achieve while shielded. If all of them crit, then I would get a total of 11.8k heal from the HoTs and 7.4k heal from Ward. That's a whooping 19k heal from combining Ward and 3 HoTs.

This is why I'm able to tank almost 7k DPS in a real fight. Keep in mind, I WON that duel. Guaranteed, that DK would destroy the majority of general builds. Only a few select classes can face tank that kind of damage and win at the end, and Sorc is one of them.

StaticWave

StaticWave wrote: »

5 minute duel vs a DK. Here is the CMX data:

My DPS:



His DPS:


My HPS:



44k HP, 28.9k spell resist, 28.1k physical resist, crit resist doesn't matter because the DK was in Malacath. Defensive blue CPs were Duelist Rebuff and Focused Mending.

Hardened Ward accounted for 33% of the total HPS. Surge + Vigor + Blood Magic accounted for 50%. I used the shield to eat the DK's DoTs and weave Crystal Weapon with Vigor to proc 3 HoTs.

Using the average values, if none of the HoTs crit, I would get a 5.6k heal. Combined with average value of Ward heal, that's a 9.4k total heal you can achieve while shielded. If all of them crit, then I would get a total of 11.8k heal from the HoTs and 7.4k heal from Ward. That's a whooping 19k heal from combining Ward and 3 HoTs.

This is why I'm able to tank almost 7k DPS in a real fight. Keep in mind, I WON that duel. Guaranteed, that DK would destroy the majority of general builds. Only a few select classes can face tank that kind of damage and win at the end, and Sorc is one of them.

Here's what it would look like:

https://youtu.be/zICDsk_xagg

Starting HP at 15775. Using the defensive rotation I mentioned, my HP went up to 28975. That's a 13.2k burst heal under the shield. CMX data for that test below:

StaticWave

Here's an actual duel against that DK. I was on melee HP Sorc. I was also in Rallying Cry and the DK was using Malacath, so the entire crit resist bonus was nullified:

Duel video:
https://youtu.be/NMasiNbHwiM


My DPS:



His DPS:



My HPS:




I was on a melee spec without Streak, and I was able to brawl with a DK and tanked 7k DPS. Now imagine if I was on a ranged spec with Streak. With the mobility and range advantage, I would just stack as much damage as possible and still keep a similar amount of tankiness. How would anyone expect to kill that?

StaticWave

And I definitely won't die to a NB either.



43k HP, 27k resist, 3.6k crit resist. Fought a full dmg NB that did 10.7k Concealed and 16k Bow proc and shrugged it off like it was nothing. Add block weaving into the defensive rotation, and you can't die to a NB unless you get ganked mid fight.

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

And I definitely won't die to a NB either.



43k HP, 27k resist, 3.6k crit resist. Fought a full dmg NB that did 10.7k Concealed and 16k Bow proc and shrugged it off like it was nothing. Add block weaving into the defensive rotation, and you can't die to a NB unless you get ganked mid fight.

There is no debating your findings in duels. This game has little or no balance in the 1v1 which is why tournaments have to have rules.

In contrast open world has no rules or controls on variables so these finding carry a lot less weight there unfortunately.

xylena_lazarow

Bushido2513 wrote: »

In contrast open world has no rules or controls on variables so these finding carry a lot less weight there unfortunately.

HowlKimchi wrote: »

How does any controlled scientific experiment matter when reality is wildly uncontrolled and varied?

Gotta love how Bushido has spent the last 3 pages arguing against science itself. Anyway here's the CMX from that wild unstaged Cyro duel I mentioned earlier in which the Sorc was badly outplayed for 4 minutes, only for me to slowly walk away when it became clear that Ward was making this fight a pointless waste of time.


Yeah I expect to be stalemated by full tanks but this was a damage Sorc in 5 Light or something close, and while 5.3k dps isn't duel build numbers, it's pretty high for open world brawlers where 4.0k is "good" and wins most open world fights.

StaticWave

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

And I definitely won't die to a NB either.



43k HP, 27k resist, 3.6k crit resist. Fought a full dmg NB that did 10.7k Concealed and 16k Bow proc and shrugged it off like it was nothing. Add block weaving into the defensive rotation, and you can't die to a NB unless you get ganked mid fight.

There is no debating your findings in duels. This game has little or no balance in the 1v1 which is why tournaments have to have rules.

In contrast open world has no rules or controls on variables so these finding carry a lot less weight there unfortunately.

I use the build in OW lol. I’ll just kite more for OW but the result is the same.

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

And I definitely won't die to a NB either.



43k HP, 27k resist, 3.6k crit resist. Fought a full dmg NB that did 10.7k Concealed and 16k Bow proc and shrugged it off like it was nothing. Add block weaving into the defensive rotation, and you can't die to a NB unless you get ganked mid fight.

There is no debating your findings in duels. This game has little or no balance in the 1v1 which is why tournaments have to have rules.

In contrast open world has no rules or controls on variables so these finding carry a lot less weight there unfortunately.

I use the build in OW lol. I’ll just kite more for OW but the result is the same.

So I can name 17 scenarios where the result will be different for different reasons but I'll just go with the math. You only have so many resources and so much healing. Open world allows for potential to easily exceed your resources and healing where a duel doesn't. So you are correct in saying look what I can do 1v1 but that doesn't say much about the thousand or more variations in open world pvp scenarios.

Though yes if you can manage to kite and keep the fight to a 1v1 you would see great success potentially but I don't think anyone is too worried about a scenario where a player chases you down and can't accept that they just can't kill you. In this game we can't kill everyone and that's something that can happen with any class.

Gilvoth

why cant we have the shield breaker set back to its original perfection, it was perfect for dealing with this situation. it worked and was fair. Give us back the shield breaker set the way it was released and give it a small buff.

TechMaybeHic

Gilvoth wrote: »

why cant we have the shield breaker set back to its original perfection, it was perfect for dealing with this situation. it worked and was fair. Give us back the shield breaker set the way it was released and give it a small buff.

Yeah right now it seems budgeted to damage shields users close to the same other sets are to damage anything.

StaticWave

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

And I definitely won't die to a NB either.



43k HP, 27k resist, 3.6k crit resist. Fought a full dmg NB that did 10.7k Concealed and 16k Bow proc and shrugged it off like it was nothing. Add block weaving into the defensive rotation, and you can't die to a NB unless you get ganked mid fight.

There is no debating your findings in duels. This game has little or no balance in the 1v1 which is why tournaments have to have rules.

In contrast open world has no rules or controls on variables so these finding carry a lot less weight there unfortunately.

I use the build in OW lol. I’ll just kite more for OW but the result is the same.

So I can name 17 scenarios where the result will be different for different reasons but I'll just go with the math. You only have so many resources and so much healing. Open world allows for potential to easily exceed your resources and healing where a duel doesn't. So you are correct in saying look what I can do 1v1 but that doesn't say much about the thousand or more variations in open world pvp scenarios.

Though yes if you can manage to kite and keep the fight to a 1v1 you would see great success potentially but I don't think anyone is too worried about a scenario where a player chases you down and can't accept that they just can't kill you. In this game we can't kill everyone and that's something that can happen with any class.

Nah. I could 1vX without the shield last patch. In fact I’ve been doing that for 5 years with no burst heal. U41 isn’t gonna suddenly make me lose my Cyrodiil game sense or make my opponents extremely stronger lol. It’ll make me extremely tankier tho that’s for sure.

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

And I definitely won't die to a NB either.



43k HP, 27k resist, 3.6k crit resist. Fought a full dmg NB that did 10.7k Concealed and 16k Bow proc and shrugged it off like it was nothing. Add block weaving into the defensive rotation, and you can't die to a NB unless you get ganked mid fight.

There is no debating your findings in duels. This game has little or no balance in the 1v1 which is why tournaments have to have rules.

In contrast open world has no rules or controls on variables so these finding carry a lot less weight there unfortunately.

I use the build in OW lol. I’ll just kite more for OW but the result is the same.

So I can name 17 scenarios where the result will be different for different reasons but I'll just go with the math. You only have so many resources and so much healing. Open world allows for potential to easily exceed your resources and healing where a duel doesn't. So you are correct in saying look what I can do 1v1 but that doesn't say much about the thousand or more variations in open world pvp scenarios.

Though yes if you can manage to kite and keep the fight to a 1v1 you would see great success potentially but I don't think anyone is too worried about a scenario where a player chases you down and can't accept that they just can't kill you. In this game we can't kill everyone and that's something that can happen with any class.

Nah. I could 1vX without the shield last patch. In fact I’ve been doing that for 5 years with no burst heal. U41 isn’t gonna suddenly make me lose my Cyrodiil game sense or make my opponents extremely stronger lol. It’ll make me extremely tankier tho that’s for sure.

That's definitely true but probably much like myself it's not that you don't die, it's that you don't die often.

Yes you can push the limits further but if I point you towards the wrong 3 man, 5 man, 12 man of potatoes you're at best getting away with maybe one or two kills but definitely not going to be an unstoppable nightmare.

My point is that the change is definitely strong but not at all immune to xv1 and by the I mean even in gvg you'll eventually get targeted by an xv1 if the 1v1 isn't cutting it.

You might often get away but to me that's just part of how the game works. Almost anyone can escape these days if they practice at it even a bit.

xylena_lazarow

Bushido2513 wrote: »

My point is that the change is definitely strong but not at all immune to xv1 and by the I mean even in gvg you'll eventually get targeted by an xv1 if the 1v1 isn't cutting it.

By your logic nothing should ever be adjusted because there's always some context in which it's not a factor.

It's like arguing that 60k Tarnished procs were fine because it wouldn't scale up if everyone spread out enough.

StaticWave

Bushido2513 wrote: »

My point is that the change is definitely strong but not at all immune to xv1 and by the I mean even in gvg you'll eventually get targeted by an xv1 if the 1v1 isn't cutting it.

You might often get away but to me that's just part of how the game works. Almost anyone can escape these days if they practice at it even a bit.

Okay then Polar Wind shouldn't be nerfed. Master DW/Vate/Maarselok shouldn't be nerfed. NB shouldnt be nerfed. Everything shouldn't be nerfed then cause at some point something's going to counter it, like 20 ppl chasing you down.

StaticWave

This was a Deathmatch BG game where my team had a Warden healer:



My healing:


91.4% of the total healing was from my own. The other 8.6% was from the Warden healer in my team. Ward accounted for 41.7% of my self heal. Vigor + Surge + Blood Magic accounted for 38.4%.

xylena_lazarow

StaticWave wrote: »

The other 8.6% was from the Warden healer in my team. Ward accounted for 41.7% of my self heal. Vigor + Surge + Blood Magic accounted for 38.4%.

For what it's worth this particular example strikes me more as a "64 hp damage dealer" problem than a Ward problem as 41% is in line with Arc Impervious and you're still running other heals and a tank monster set to get your results. Now when you run 60k max mag full damage and can survive open world with literally just Ward doing 86% you see true insanity.


Nothing else in this game does 86% of anything. Literally twice as powerful as Arc Impervious (or HP Stamsorc Ward), and this is on a ranged nuke that already has the game's best escape tool and can sit in complete safety parsing half the fight.

Bushido2513

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

My point is that the change is definitely strong but not at all immune to xv1 and by the I mean even in gvg you'll eventually get targeted by an xv1 if the 1v1 isn't cutting it.

By your logic nothing should ever be adjusted because there's always some context in which it's not a factor.

It's like arguing that 60k Tarnished procs were fine because it wouldn't scale up if everyone spread out enough.

Nope it depends on how much of a factor it is and how often and easy it is to counter. Tarnished was an issue because you're usually dead if it had the intended effect so no good counterplay there. Where as players get xv1d all the time and there's usually a few opportunities to do so in any gvg fight.

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

My point is that the change is definitely strong but not at all immune to xv1 and by the I mean even in gvg you'll eventually get targeted by an xv1 if the 1v1 isn't cutting it.

You might often get away but to me that's just part of how the game works. Almost anyone can escape these days if they practice at it even a bit.

Okay then Polar Wind shouldn't be nerfed. Master DW/Vate/Maarselok shouldn't be nerfed. NB shouldnt be nerfed. Everything shouldn't be nerfed then cause at some point something's going to counter it, like 20 ppl chasing you down.

Well you joke but that is how we dealt with Procanist for a long time.

That being said it's going to be a different comparison for what appears on death recaps vs things you can't kill.

I'm saying you have to gang up on hard targets if you're thirsty for a kill. When it comes to damage that ends up on recaps across several classes that's an issue.

When it comes to NB being able to counter damage while also becoming invisible and having huge damage that's an issue.

A sorc with big shields that you can generally speaking see and chase down if you really want to as a group feels more fair to me in gvg.

Gilvoth

Bushido2513 wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

My point is that the change is definitely strong but not at all immune to xv1 and by the I mean even in gvg you'll eventually get targeted by an xv1 if the 1v1 isn't cutting it.

By your logic nothing should ever be adjusted because there's always some context in which it's not a factor.

It's like arguing that 60k Tarnished procs were fine because it wouldn't scale up if everyone spread out enough.

Nope it depends on how much of a factor it is and how often and easy it is to counter. Tarnished was an issue because you're usually dead if it had the intended effect so no good counterplay there. Where as players get xv1d all the time and there's usually a few opportunities to do so in any gvg fight.

maybe im just missunderstanding your comment, or perhaps i missread, but ...
it sure seems like your saying that sorcerers should not be able to be killed 1 V 1 nor by multiple players during pvp, well, to quote you specificly here at

Bushido2513 wrote: »

... players get xv1d all the time and there's usually a few opportunities to do so in any gvg fight.

and here

Bushido2513 wrote: »

A sorc with big shields that you can generally speaking see and chase down if you really want to as a group feels more fair to me in gvg.[/quote]

Bushido2513

Gilvoth wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

My point is that the change is definitely strong but not at all immune to xv1 and by the I mean even in gvg you'll eventually get targeted by an xv1 if the 1v1 isn't cutting it.

By your logic nothing should ever be adjusted because there's always some context in which it's not a factor.

It's like arguing that 60k Tarnished procs were fine because it wouldn't scale up if everyone spread out enough.

Nope it depends on how much of a factor it is and how often and easy it is to counter. Tarnished was an issue because you're usually dead if it had the intended effect so no good counterplay there. Where as players get xv1d all the time and there's usually a few opportunities to do so in any gvg fight.

maybe im just missunderstanding your comment, or perhaps i missread, but ...
it sure seems like your saying that sorcerers should not be able to be killed 1 V 1 nor by multiple players during pvp, well, to quote you specificly here at

Bushido2513 wrote: »

... players get xv1d all the time and there's usually a few opportunities to do so in any gvg fight.

and here

Bushido2513 wrote: »

A sorc with big shields that you can generally speaking see and chase down if you really want to as a group feels more fair to me in gvg.

[/quote]

No I'm saying I'm ok with people you can't kill 1v1 but can kill xv1

When I say ok I mean that I understand that this seems to be the vision of ZOS so for me this is within the tolerances of the game we're given.

I would of course prefer that the game were balanced to such an effect where skill was a high determining factor but the trouble is when you do that it makes it too easy for those that are unskilled to get blown out of the water and I think ZOS is trying to make the game more generally appealing to the mass general market.

VinnyGambini

Lol sorcs are doing 7k hps, and they were supposed to be squishy, kiting class. Show me other class that can do 7k hps.

I mentioned many times that sorc was S tier before buffs. Right now the gap between sorc and other classes is like 3 tiers. I mean it's like:

D-tier - necro, templar
C-tier - arcanist, warden, dk
B tier- nightblade
A-tier - GAP
S tier - GAP
S+++++ tier - sorcerer.

I can't believe it went live.

Gilvoth

Bushido,

i didnt mean to single you out, i just hard for me to understand why so much damage and so much defense is always centered on sorcerers here in eso. and the way you worded it made sound favored.

Bushido2513

Gilvoth wrote: »

Bushido,

i didnt mean to single you out, i just hard for me to understand why so much damage and so much defense is always centered on sorcerers here in eso. and the way you worded it made sound favored.

No problem at all. I do main sorc but I don't believe I'm blindly defending it, just maybe more tolerant than some.

HowlKimchi

To add to the discussion, I think 1v1s are the closest thing PVP has that's comparable to PVE's parsing. And

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Lol sorcs are doing 7k hps, and they were supposed to be squishy, kiting class. Show me other class that can do 7k hps.

I mentioned many times that sorc was S tier before buffs. Right now the gap between sorc and other classes is like 3 tiers. I mean it's like:

D-tier - necro, templar
C-tier - arcanist, warden, dk
B tier- nightblade
A-tier - GAP
S tier - GAP
S+++++ tier - sorcerer.

I can't believe it went live.

Yep they were supposed to be squishy *if shields were down* so when their hp dips to execute range, no amount of shield spamming could keep up with execute spam. They either needed to kite, or rely on heal over time to bring their HP back up. Now, one hardened ward click is enough to both get out of execute range, and actually start being on the offensive again. It's offensive, really.

StaticWave

HowlKimchi wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Lol sorcs are doing 7k hps, and they were supposed to be squishy, kiting class. Show me other class that can do 7k hps.

I mentioned many times that sorc was S tier before buffs. Right now the gap between sorc and other classes is like 3 tiers. I mean it's like:

D-tier - necro, templar
C-tier - arcanist, warden, dk
B tier- nightblade
A-tier - GAP
S tier - GAP
S+++++ tier - sorcerer.

I can't believe it went live.

Yep they were supposed to be squishy *if shields were down* so when their hp dips to execute range, no amount of shield spamming could keep up with execute spam. They either needed to kite, or rely on heal over time to bring their HP back up. Now, one hardened ward click is enough to both get out of execute range, and actually start being on the offensive again. It's offensive, really.

It’s not just that. Sorc is currently the only class that can almost ignore core defensive mechanics like block and dodge roll while in an offensive build. You don’t even need to block or dodge roll at near death. You simply spam Ward until you’re full. Arcanist can maybe replicate that to some degree, but it requires 3 Cruxs and can only do it once. Every remaining class must block or dodge roll to avoid getting killed, or build super tanky to achieve the same result.

Jsmalls

I'm pretty confident there will be a change to Sorcs in the patch notes tomorrow. Just hope they aren't gutted after a buff like in previous years...

But I stand by it when I saw Sorcs are not the only classes whose healing needs to be addressed... Nightblades, Wardens, Arcanist... All need to be tuned down. Only DKs and Templars get a pass because they are a hold your ground class. Even though that will make them significantly superior duelers.