Big nerf: damage shield of fatecarver…

BlueRaven

Soarora wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I am kind of shocked by these reply’s to the OP and just how tone deaf they are. Here was someone who was trying to do all the things all of you claim they should have been doing. They had not asked to be given anything. They were quietly doing the content as required.

Then they felt they got a game ending nerf.

And instead of helping or commiserating, you all jumped on them.

“ I struggled a lot in vBRP with the old damage shield, now it will be impossible. Have the Cloudrest Hero achievement with my old arcanist. Now I’m afraid of doing vCR again because I know I will wipe more often and get kicked from the group.”

Poster was struggling but still trying. But with the nerf they feel they can’t continue. That is the issue, not just for this poster but for tons of other players out there. The dps requirement creep in eso is getting out of hand.

I am sorry @subarctic , as you and I both know from being here so long, this game was much more welcoming when it first came out. Now it’s as toxic as wow.
It was not too long ago zos nerfed the top end and these forums howled with rage, but if someone deemed lower end gets nerfed, suddenly it’s viewed as a form of entitlement to even complain.

Good luck and I hope your gaming experience gets better.

People weren't jumping on them, we were trying to encourage OP to keep trying. People asked for their build to try to help them. People pointed out Cloudrest damage is Oblivion damage to try and explain to OP they weren't dying not because of the shield. People are saying the shield wasn't mega nerfed and still functions. It's not to make fun of OP or try to drive them away, every single person I've seen in this thread is trying to help them.

"Every person?" "Help?" No, I saw accusations of entitlement and basically players telling them to "get gud". If you think every person was helping, I invite you to reread this thread.

This is typical of the threads on the forums now. Remember when HA Oak builds were nerfed? The cheers that the "undeserving" were being removed from trials? Do you think all of those people found another way to get into those trials? No. Just more people excluded from endgame.

I personally never cared what other players did. As long as bosses went down, it was fine. I would only enquire about other people's builds if I happened to see something very cool that they did. I wish these forums were the same way.

sarahthes

Hapexamendios wrote: »

If I find the nerf too much, I'll just start running Bastion in the red CP.

That's certainly a valid option, and a good way to make things work for you.

Rkindaleft

BlueRaven wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I am kind of shocked by these reply’s to the OP and just how tone deaf they are. Here was someone who was trying to do all the things all of you claim they should have been doing. They had not asked to be given anything. They were quietly doing the content as required.

Then they felt they got a game ending nerf.

And instead of helping or commiserating, you all jumped on them.

“ I struggled a lot in vBRP with the old damage shield, now it will be impossible. Have the Cloudrest Hero achievement with my old arcanist. Now I’m afraid of doing vCR again because I know I will wipe more often and get kicked from the group.”

Poster was struggling but still trying. But with the nerf they feel they can’t continue. That is the issue, not just for this poster but for tons of other players out there. The dps requirement creep in eso is getting out of hand.

I am sorry @subarctic , as you and I both know from being here so long, this game was much more welcoming when it first came out. Now it’s as toxic as wow.
It was not too long ago zos nerfed the top end and these forums howled with rage, but if someone deemed lower end gets nerfed, suddenly it’s viewed as a form of entitlement to even complain.

Good luck and I hope your gaming experience gets better.

People weren't jumping on them, we were trying to encourage OP to keep trying. People asked for their build to try to help them. People pointed out Cloudrest damage is Oblivion damage to try and explain to OP they weren't dying not because of the shield. People are saying the shield wasn't mega nerfed and still functions. It's not to make fun of OP or try to drive them away, every single person I've seen in this thread is trying to help them.

I personally never cared what other players did. As long as bosses went down, it was fine. I would only enquire about other people's builds if I happened to see something very cool that they did. I wish these forums were the same way.

That's perfectly okay, as I mentioned in this thread before this game has so much content, and it's great that people find enjoyment doing different things in the game, but this is not how the game is played in any trial team that is even remotely coordinated, which is reflected in posts here.

OP's whole thread was about how Fatecarver's shield was nerfed and that will be a reason as to why they will be "excluded" from veteran trials. They have also stated that they have been routinely kicked from PUGs in the past, which I will agree is a shame and definitely hasn't helped their confidence - but that would also imply that with even an un-nerfed version of Fatecarver they are still struggling to survive, which probably means they are lacking raid awareness or understanding of/refusal to play around mechanics, whether or not they have a fat shield with Fatecarver doesn't matter because they are still missing some skills on the fundamental level. A small nerf to Fatecarver shield isn't going to make anyone fail to achieve anything they couldn't do beforehand.

BlueRaven

Rkindaleft wrote: »

OP's whole thread was about how Fatecarver's shield was nerfed and that will be a reason as to why they will be "excluded" from veteran trials.

This is a mis read or mis understanding of their post. This is what they said.

subarctic wrote: »

I struggled a lot in vBRP with the old damage shield, now it will be impossible. Have the Cloudrest Hero achievement with my old arcanist. Now I’m afraid of doing vCR again because I know I will wipe more often and get kicked from the group.

They are not worried about not getting picked. They are worried about not keeping up, being a burden to the group and then getting kicked.

Same thing happened when oak ha builds were nerfed. People who were welcome trial members just stopped logging on. People did not want to be a groups weak link, even in groups with friends, they were self conscious of their flaws, and the nerf made sent the message that endgame was not for them (anymore).

notyuu

Honestly the shield NERF was warranted seeing as you could easily end up with a shield bigger than your health bar, but what I want to know is why wasn't the other morph buffed to be on par?

Shagreth

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

What I do disagree with though is saying ESO as toxic as wow. I NEVER in 20 years playing wow experienced the levels of toxicity I have from this community. If anything getting into a pug raid was much easier, I was never, not ONCE berated yet in ESO it can be a daily occurance. So, sorry I just did not see it there and yet here...it kept me out of trials and vets. My wife had her FIRST TRIAL in ESO (she is a beta player) about a month ago because of the stuff we have seen in game. In WOW, I would get invited as a PUG in a guild run, and often get invites to join the guild. That has happend ONCE in ESO and that was 2 weeks ago.

The arcanist nerfs for magica were completely, COMPLETELY unwarranted. I called this out, I was razzed for it, given grief for my position, attacked and low and behold look what is happening, magicka arcanists are suffering big time.

I, too, have been playing WoW for 20 years, I've quit now but I have a very good idea of the game and its community, also what makes it tick. I can tell you with confidence that ESO (at least right now) has THE most toxic community, and I will leave it at that. As for ingame stuff -- I have witnessed situations like people refusing to tank and move because a 'low cp' dared to queue for a random and ended up in a vet dlc dungeon and proceed to throw slurs etc. etc. countless examples. The one I mentioned wanted the low cp scum kicked in order to grace us with his skills. CP gatekeeping is something I see rather often, and that's just one example.

PapaTankers

BlueRaven wrote: »

I am kind of shocked by these reply’s to the OP and just how tone deaf they are. Here was someone who was trying to do all the things all of you claim they should have been doing. They had not asked to be given anything. They were quietly doing the content as required.

Then they felt they got a game ending nerf.

And instead of helping or commiserating, you all jumped on them.

“ I struggled a lot in vBRP with the old damage shield, now it will be impossible. Have the Cloudrest Hero achievement with my old arcanist. Now I’m afraid of doing vCR again because I know I will wipe more often and get kicked from the group.”

Poster was struggling but still trying. But with the nerf they feel they can’t continue. That is the issue, not just for this poster but for tons of other players out there. The dps requirement creep in eso is getting out of hand.

I am sorry @subarctic , as you and I both know from being here so long, this game was much more welcoming when it first came out. Now it’s as toxic as wow.
It was not too long ago zos nerfed the top end and these forums howled with rage, but if someone deemed lower end gets nerfed, suddenly it’s viewed as a form of entitlement to even complain.

Good luck and I hope your gaming experience gets better.

This is laughable at best. People were telling OP the harsh truth and OP did not want to hear it.

Old fatecarver shield let people ignore mechanics that would cause death. If you want to humor yourself, watch nefas run vERE trifecta.
It wasn't only the lowend using it.

Should we just buff lower end to the point where everything becomes trivial just so people would feel like game is more welcoming?
If OP was already at his skill ceiling then maybe that content isnt for him/her.

Sorry, not sorry.

Aurielle

Shagreth wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

What I do disagree with though is saying ESO as toxic as wow. I NEVER in 20 years playing wow experienced the levels of toxicity I have from this community. If anything getting into a pug raid was much easier, I was never, not ONCE berated yet in ESO it can be a daily occurance. So, sorry I just did not see it there and yet here...it kept me out of trials and vets. My wife had her FIRST TRIAL in ESO (she is a beta player) about a month ago because of the stuff we have seen in game. In WOW, I would get invited as a PUG in a guild run, and often get invites to join the guild. That has happend ONCE in ESO and that was 2 weeks ago.

The arcanist nerfs for magica were completely, COMPLETELY unwarranted. I called this out, I was razzed for it, given grief for my position, attacked and low and behold look what is happening, magicka arcanists are suffering big time.

I have witnessed situations like people refusing to tank and move because a 'low cp' dared to queue for a random and ended up in a vet dlc dungeon and proceed to throw slurs etc. etc. countless examples. The one I mentioned wanted the low cp scum kicked in order to grace us with his skills. CP gatekeeping is something I see rather often, and that's just one example.

The tank’s mistake was speaking, instead of just quietly leaving. Decry “CP gatekeeping” all you want, but if someone queues as a damage dealer for a vet DLC dungeon and has less than 200-300 CP, and I’m there on my 8k DPS tank, I’m not tanking that dungeon either. Players at that low of a CP level simply cannot keep up with the damage requirements and slow everything down significantly (to the tune of adding 45+ minutes to the run), or they actively halt progress for everyone in the group because they’re constantly dying and the boss is taking hardly any damage. I honestly think the game should prohibit anyone from queuing tor a vet DLC dungeon with less than 300-400 CP. It isn’t “toxic” to hold that opinion either — merely a reflection of how ill-equipped low CP characters are to deal with vet DLC dungeons as damage dealers.

BlueRaven

Aurielle wrote: »

Shagreth wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

What I do disagree with though is saying ESO as toxic as wow. I NEVER in 20 years playing wow experienced the levels of toxicity I have from this community. If anything getting into a pug raid was much easier, I was never, not ONCE berated yet in ESO it can be a daily occurance. So, sorry I just did not see it there and yet here...it kept me out of trials and vets. My wife had her FIRST TRIAL in ESO (she is a beta player) about a month ago because of the stuff we have seen in game. In WOW, I would get invited as a PUG in a guild run, and often get invites to join the guild. That has happend ONCE in ESO and that was 2 weeks ago.

The arcanist nerfs for magica were completely, COMPLETELY unwarranted. I called this out, I was razzed for it, given grief for my position, attacked and low and behold look what is happening, magicka arcanists are suffering big time.

I have witnessed situations like people refusing to tank and move because a 'low cp' dared to queue for a random and ended up in a vet dlc dungeon and proceed to throw slurs etc. etc. countless examples. The one I mentioned wanted the low cp scum kicked in order to grace us with his skills. CP gatekeeping is something I see rather often, and that's just one example.

The tank’s mistake was speaking, instead of just quietly leaving. Decry “CP gatekeeping” all you want, but if someone queues as a damage dealer for a vet DLC dungeon and has less than 200-300 CP, and I’m there on my 8k DPS tank, I’m not tanking that dungeon either. Players at that low of a CP level simply cannot keep up with the damage requirements and slow everything down significantly (to the tune of adding 45+ minutes to the run), or they actively halt progress for everyone in the group because they’re constantly dying and the boss is taking hardly any damage. I honestly think the game should prohibit anyone from queuing tor a vet DLC dungeon with less than 300-400 CP. It isn’t “toxic” to hold that opinion either — merely a reflection of how ill-equipped low CP characters are to deal with vet DLC dungeons as damage dealers.

The game does have internal cut offs for this type of thing. It’s not the low cp players fault for being there. And it’s not a great look on the community in punishing them.

I agree that low cp players should not be in many dlc dungeons. In fact there should be a gear check as well as cp check, but done internally by the game, not other players.

But even with all of that, it is not a justification for the players actions toward that lower cp player you described.

Aurielle

BlueRaven wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Shagreth wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

What I do disagree with though is saying ESO as toxic as wow. I NEVER in 20 years playing wow experienced the levels of toxicity I have from this community. If anything getting into a pug raid was much easier, I was never, not ONCE berated yet in ESO it can be a daily occurance. So, sorry I just did not see it there and yet here...it kept me out of trials and vets. My wife had her FIRST TRIAL in ESO (she is a beta player) about a month ago because of the stuff we have seen in game. In WOW, I would get invited as a PUG in a guild run, and often get invites to join the guild. That has happend ONCE in ESO and that was 2 weeks ago.

The arcanist nerfs for magica were completely, COMPLETELY unwarranted. I called this out, I was razzed for it, given grief for my position, attacked and low and behold look what is happening, magicka arcanists are suffering big time.

I have witnessed situations like people refusing to tank and move because a 'low cp' dared to queue for a random and ended up in a vet dlc dungeon and proceed to throw slurs etc. etc. countless examples. The one I mentioned wanted the low cp scum kicked in order to grace us with his skills. CP gatekeeping is something I see rather often, and that's just one example.

The tank’s mistake was speaking, instead of just quietly leaving. Decry “CP gatekeeping” all you want, but if someone queues as a damage dealer for a vet DLC dungeon and has less than 200-300 CP, and I’m there on my 8k DPS tank, I’m not tanking that dungeon either. Players at that low of a CP level simply cannot keep up with the damage requirements and slow everything down significantly (to the tune of adding 45+ minutes to the run), or they actively halt progress for everyone in the group because they’re constantly dying and the boss is taking hardly any damage. I honestly think the game should prohibit anyone from queuing tor a vet DLC dungeon with less than 300-400 CP. It isn’t “toxic” to hold that opinion either — merely a reflection of how ill-equipped low CP characters are to deal with vet DLC dungeons as damage dealers.

The game does have internal cut offs for this type of thing. It’s not the low cp players fault for being there. And it’s not a great look on the community in punishing them.

I agree that low cp players should not be in many dlc dungeons. In fact there should be a gear check as well as cp check, but done internally by the game, not other players.

But even with all of that, it is not a justification for the players actions toward that lower cp player you described.

I didn’t say their actions (the throwing slurs bit) were justified, just commenting on the “refusing to tank and move” aspect of the “toxic” ESO community. Tanks put up with so much nonsense in this game, including (but not limited to) low CP damage dealers who cannot complete the content they queued for — which is why there’s a shortage of tanks in the dungeon finder. If I queue into a vet DLC dungeon as a tank and there’s a CP165 damage dealer in the group, I initiate a vote to kick. If the vote fails, I leave the dungeon. It’s a waste of everyone’s time to watch a 15k health CP 165 player lying on the floor in a red circle (when they’re not bow light attacking trash mobs and barely moving their health bars).

Araneae6537

Aurielle wrote: »

Shagreth wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

What I do disagree with though is saying ESO as toxic as wow. I NEVER in 20 years playing wow experienced the levels of toxicity I have from this community. If anything getting into a pug raid was much easier, I was never, not ONCE berated yet in ESO it can be a daily occurance. So, sorry I just did not see it there and yet here...it kept me out of trials and vets. My wife had her FIRST TRIAL in ESO (she is a beta player) about a month ago because of the stuff we have seen in game. In WOW, I would get invited as a PUG in a guild run, and often get invites to join the guild. That has happend ONCE in ESO and that was 2 weeks ago.

The arcanist nerfs for magica were completely, COMPLETELY unwarranted. I called this out, I was razzed for it, given grief for my position, attacked and low and behold look what is happening, magicka arcanists are suffering big time.

I have witnessed situations like people refusing to tank and move because a 'low cp' dared to queue for a random and ended up in a vet dlc dungeon and proceed to throw slurs etc. etc. countless examples. The one I mentioned wanted the low cp scum kicked in order to grace us with his skills. CP gatekeeping is something I see rather often, and that's just one example.

The tank’s mistake was speaking, instead of just quietly leaving. Decry “CP gatekeeping” all you want, but if someone queues as a damage dealer for a vet DLC dungeon and has less than 200-300 CP, and I’m there on my 8k DPS tank, I’m not tanking that dungeon either. Players at that low of a CP level simply cannot keep up with the damage requirements and slow everything down significantly (to the tune of adding 45+ minutes to the run), or they actively halt progress for everyone in the group because they’re constantly dying and the boss is taking hardly any damage. I honestly think the game should prohibit anyone from queuing tor a vet DLC dungeon with less than 300-400 CP. It isn’t “toxic” to hold that opinion either — merely a reflection of how ill-equipped low CP characters are to deal with vet DLC dungeons as damage dealers.

That is absolutely gate-keeping and unfair. I have ran with many CPs that knew their role and mechanics and fully pull their weight in a dungeon — sometimes more so than higher CP members! Of course higher CP gives you more tools to work with, but what was it gained doing? And far more importantly, it says nothing about whether that player is even going to try to contribute to their role. Maybe like that tank, they are just looking for quick-and-easy transmutes (in which case it’s quite easy to put together a group for that purpose). One should at least give the group and players a chance.

My regular dungeon group now consists of two sub-500 CP players, one of whom was below 300 when we formed our group (met in a random PUG dungeon) and so we’d have to enter dungeons manually. We’ve even done hardmodes! Our leader believes in pushing our limits!

Sakiri

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I am kind of shocked by these reply’s to the OP and just how tone deaf they are. Here was someone who was trying to do all the things all of you claim they should have been doing. They had not asked to be given anything. They were quietly doing the content as required.

Then they felt they got a game ending nerf.

And instead of helping or commiserating, you all jumped on them.

“ I struggled a lot in vBRP with the old damage shield, now it will be impossible. Have the Cloudrest Hero achievement with my old arcanist. Now I’m afraid of doing vCR again because I know I will wipe more often and get kicked from the group.”

Poster was struggling but still trying. But with the nerf they feel they can’t continue. That is the issue, not just for this poster but for tons of other players out there. The dps requirement creep in eso is getting out of hand.

I am sorry @subarctic , as you and I both know from being here so long, this game was much more welcoming when it first came out. Now it’s as toxic as wow.
It was not too long ago zos nerfed the top end and these forums howled with rage, but if someone deemed lower end gets nerfed, suddenly it’s viewed as a form of entitlement to even complain.

Good luck and I hope your gaming experience gets better.

Well said. Sadly if I said the same thing as you I'd get moderated for "baiting" (as well will this comment, so screenshot it before it goes *POOF*).

What I do disagree with though is saying ESO as toxic as wow. I NEVER in 20 years playing wow experienced the levels of toxicity I have from this community. If anything getting into a pug raid was much easier, I was never, not ONCE berated yet in ESO it can be a daily occurance. So, sorry I just did not see it there and yet here...it kept me out of trials and vets. My wife had her FIRST TRIAL in ESO (she is a beta player) about a month ago because of the stuff we have seen in game. In WOW, I would get invited as a PUG in a guild run, and often get invites to join the guild. That has happend ONCE in ESO and that was 2 weeks ago.

The arcanist nerfs for magica were completely, COMPLETELY unwarranted. I called this out, I was razzed for it, given grief for my position, attacked and low and behold look what is happening, magicka arcanists are suffering big time.

I'll disagree entirely. Wow community is toxic as all get out, and I've seen tanks bullied into going dps or quitting because they were repeatedly told to off themselves because they weren't perfect, to outright getting removed from groups for being the wrong race.

I came here and it's *nothing* remotely as bad.

Sakiri

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

The OP is correct. The insane nerf/bug fix to the shield is completely unwarranted when you consider how long the channel is and how slow the character moves while channeling, meaning you are going to take damage.

"getting out of the red" is going to result in a DPS loss so that is not the solution, unless we buff fatecarver....ohh wait, it took a DPS nerf as well.

The damage shield should be strong enough to face tank anything in game for the duration of that 3 crux channel, that is how it used to work, that is how it should work now.

Arcanist is the strongest content DPS in the game for more than one reason. It has more cleave damage, less actions per minute, and more tankiness. You should not be able to “face tank anything in the game” because that is the job of the tank. DPS are supposed to be a bit squishy so the healers and tanks have to do their jobs. I didn’t really care about the shield strength, but it did become a strat to just “beam through” damage/mechanics.

[Snip]

But to your point, that is the issue. The shield does not hold long enoguh now to ensure you wont die inside of the channel..AND no, arcanist is NOT the strongest DPS, STAMINA arcainst is ONE of the strongest DPS, magicka lies literally about smack dab in the middle. Except the fatecarver nerf affected magicka and stamina equally.

I mean, a little add isn't going to hurt a healer or a DPS very much, but a big add definitely would and if a tank doesn't prioritize taunting those that's on them. You shouldn't be ensured to not die while channeling, being able to go invincible (let alone do mass amounts of damage while doing so) is incredibly unbalanced. Not to say one was invincible before, but wording does matter.

And yeah, magarc is really bad. I tell people magarc is stamarc but objectively worse because it basically is. There's potential to make magarc decent by buffing them so that they use runeblades and mag flail but it'd still be more complicated than stamarc without the benefit of coral riptide.

Its not unbalananced when you are rooted.

Let channeled fatecarver move at normal speed, then I might agree wiht you.

But that is my point. Mac arc did not need the nerfs. This was shown on the PTR, it was shown here, numbers and all.

Their solution was a simple/easy of a solution, but not the right one. It makes absolytely ZERO sense to nerf something that was already sub-par

You know what I told the arcanists on my raid team the day before we got Planesbreaker?

Break the damn beam and block when there's incoming damage.

And you know what happened? When necessary, they broke the beam and blocked. And we got Planesbreaker.

Vet content ready players don't lean on their crutches to clear content. They take personal responsibility for the things within their control, and react to them appropriately. So if you're moving too slowly while beaming to react to a damage mechanic... Break the beam, and move out of it or block it.

[Edited quote]

That works in a guild raid, not in a pug. That is the difference.
Arcanists bread and butter is fatecarver. It does most of the damage. If you have to stop the channel to get out of damage (which is why pragmatic was given a shield, so you dont) so you don't die, then its not working as intended and the nerf (as we called out) is unwarranted.

In your guild setting, no one is going to berate you for having lower DPS to stay alive. This is not the same thing in a PUG, ESPECIALLY a vet dungeon or trial when the other DPS sees that they are doing most of the work because you keep breaking channel to get out of stuff asap.

I know fully well how and when to break my channel to get out of the red, but it comes at the cost of severe DPS loss...and the toxic community in this game will kick you for it along with some kind verbiage telling you how bad you are.

The don't pug?

Pixiepumpkin

Sakiri wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I am kind of shocked by these reply’s to the OP and just how tone deaf they are. Here was someone who was trying to do all the things all of you claim they should have been doing. They had not asked to be given anything. They were quietly doing the content as required.

Then they felt they got a game ending nerf.

And instead of helping or commiserating, you all jumped on them.

“ I struggled a lot in vBRP with the old damage shield, now it will be impossible. Have the Cloudrest Hero achievement with my old arcanist. Now I’m afraid of doing vCR again because I know I will wipe more often and get kicked from the group.”

Poster was struggling but still trying. But with the nerf they feel they can’t continue. That is the issue, not just for this poster but for tons of other players out there. The dps requirement creep in eso is getting out of hand.

I am sorry @subarctic , as you and I both know from being here so long, this game was much more welcoming when it first came out. Now it’s as toxic as wow.
It was not too long ago zos nerfed the top end and these forums howled with rage, but if someone deemed lower end gets nerfed, suddenly it’s viewed as a form of entitlement to even complain.

Good luck and I hope your gaming experience gets better.

Well said. Sadly if I said the same thing as you I'd get moderated for "baiting" (as well will this comment, so screenshot it before it goes *POOF*).

What I do disagree with though is saying ESO as toxic as wow. I NEVER in 20 years playing wow experienced the levels of toxicity I have from this community. If anything getting into a pug raid was much easier, I was never, not ONCE berated yet in ESO it can be a daily occurance. So, sorry I just did not see it there and yet here...it kept me out of trials and vets. My wife had her FIRST TRIAL in ESO (she is a beta player) about a month ago because of the stuff we have seen in game. In WOW, I would get invited as a PUG in a guild run, and often get invites to join the guild. That has happend ONCE in ESO and that was 2 weeks ago.

The arcanist nerfs for magica were completely, COMPLETELY unwarranted. I called this out, I was razzed for it, given grief for my position, attacked and low and behold look what is happening, magicka arcanists are suffering big time.

I'll disagree entirely. Wow community is toxic as all get out, and I've seen tanks bullied into going dps or quitting because they were repeatedly told to off themselves because they weren't perfect, to outright getting removed from groups for being the wrong race.

I came here and it's *nothing* remotely as bad.

That is fine and good but does not align with my experiences.

AGAIN. I was treated worse, much much worse in ESO in a short period of time with more individual accounts of harassment from players than I expereienced in the entirety of my time in wow.

I am not saying it does not happen, but I was simply never abused in that game like I have been in this one. And again, my wife saw the same things happening and it kept her from every going into a trial and she has played since 2014.

Pixiepumpkin

Sakiri wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

The OP is correct. The insane nerf/bug fix to the shield is completely unwarranted when you consider how long the channel is and how slow the character moves while channeling, meaning you are going to take damage.

"getting out of the red" is going to result in a DPS loss so that is not the solution, unless we buff fatecarver....ohh wait, it took a DPS nerf as well.

The damage shield should be strong enough to face tank anything in game for the duration of that 3 crux channel, that is how it used to work, that is how it should work now.

Arcanist is the strongest content DPS in the game for more than one reason. It has more cleave damage, less actions per minute, and more tankiness. You should not be able to “face tank anything in the game” because that is the job of the tank. DPS are supposed to be a bit squishy so the healers and tanks have to do their jobs. I didn’t really care about the shield strength, but it did become a strat to just “beam through” damage/mechanics.

[Snip]

But to your point, that is the issue. The shield does not hold long enoguh now to ensure you wont die inside of the channel..AND no, arcanist is NOT the strongest DPS, STAMINA arcainst is ONE of the strongest DPS, magicka lies literally about smack dab in the middle. Except the fatecarver nerf affected magicka and stamina equally.

I mean, a little add isn't going to hurt a healer or a DPS very much, but a big add definitely would and if a tank doesn't prioritize taunting those that's on them. You shouldn't be ensured to not die while channeling, being able to go invincible (let alone do mass amounts of damage while doing so) is incredibly unbalanced. Not to say one was invincible before, but wording does matter.

And yeah, magarc is really bad. I tell people magarc is stamarc but objectively worse because it basically is. There's potential to make magarc decent by buffing them so that they use runeblades and mag flail but it'd still be more complicated than stamarc without the benefit of coral riptide.

Its not unbalananced when you are rooted.

Let channeled fatecarver move at normal speed, then I might agree wiht you.

But that is my point. Mac arc did not need the nerfs. This was shown on the PTR, it was shown here, numbers and all.

Their solution was a simple/easy of a solution, but not the right one. It makes absolytely ZERO sense to nerf something that was already sub-par

You know what I told the arcanists on my raid team the day before we got Planesbreaker?

Break the damn beam and block when there's incoming damage.

And you know what happened? When necessary, they broke the beam and blocked. And we got Planesbreaker.

Vet content ready players don't lean on their crutches to clear content. They take personal responsibility for the things within their control, and react to them appropriately. So if you're moving too slowly while beaming to react to a damage mechanic... Break the beam, and move out of it or block it.

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That works in a guild raid, not in a pug. That is the difference.
Arcanists bread and butter is fatecarver. It does most of the damage. If you have to stop the channel to get out of damage (which is why pragmatic was given a shield, so you dont) so you don't die, then its not working as intended and the nerf (as we called out) is unwarranted.

In your guild setting, no one is going to berate you for having lower DPS to stay alive. This is not the same thing in a PUG, ESPECIALLY a vet dungeon or trial when the other DPS sees that they are doing most of the work because you keep breaking channel to get out of stuff asap.

I know fully well how and when to break my channel to get out of the red, but it comes at the cost of severe DPS loss...and the toxic community in this game will kick you for it along with some kind verbiage telling you how bad you are.

The don't pug?

The style of play I enage with is sanctioned by the developers of ESO themselves. And that sanctioning of PUG groups is why the design should also lend itself towards how content is designed to facilitate that need.

subarctic

I have now tried a few vet trials and by adding another shield skill it seems to be okay, in my case. It’s still just simple logic that the nerf is bad for pugs.

BlueRaven

subarctic wrote: »

I have now tried a few vet trials and by adding another shield skill it seems to be okay, in my case. It’s still just simple logic that the nerf is bad for pugs.

That is great to hear! Awesome! Good luck!

Aurielle

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Shagreth wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

What I do disagree with though is saying ESO as toxic as wow. I NEVER in 20 years playing wow experienced the levels of toxicity I have from this community. If anything getting into a pug raid was much easier, I was never, not ONCE berated yet in ESO it can be a daily occurance. So, sorry I just did not see it there and yet here...it kept me out of trials and vets. My wife had her FIRST TRIAL in ESO (she is a beta player) about a month ago because of the stuff we have seen in game. In WOW, I would get invited as a PUG in a guild run, and often get invites to join the guild. That has happend ONCE in ESO and that was 2 weeks ago.

The arcanist nerfs for magica were completely, COMPLETELY unwarranted. I called this out, I was razzed for it, given grief for my position, attacked and low and behold look what is happening, magicka arcanists are suffering big time.

I have witnessed situations like people refusing to tank and move because a 'low cp' dared to queue for a random and ended up in a vet dlc dungeon and proceed to throw slurs etc. etc. countless examples. The one I mentioned wanted the low cp scum kicked in order to grace us with his skills. CP gatekeeping is something I see rather often, and that's just one example.

The tank’s mistake was speaking, instead of just quietly leaving. Decry “CP gatekeeping” all you want, but if someone queues as a damage dealer for a vet DLC dungeon and has less than 200-300 CP, and I’m there on my 8k DPS tank, I’m not tanking that dungeon either. Players at that low of a CP level simply cannot keep up with the damage requirements and slow everything down significantly (to the tune of adding 45+ minutes to the run), or they actively halt progress for everyone in the group because they’re constantly dying and the boss is taking hardly any damage. I honestly think the game should prohibit anyone from queuing tor a vet DLC dungeon with less than 300-400 CP. It isn’t “toxic” to hold that opinion either — merely a reflection of how ill-equipped low CP characters are to deal with vet DLC dungeons as damage dealers.

That is absolutely gate-keeping and unfair. I have ran with many CPs that knew their role and mechanics and fully pull their weight in a dungeon — sometimes more so than higher CP members! Of course higher CP gives you more tools to work with, but what was it gained doing? And far more importantly, it says nothing about whether that player is even going to try to contribute to their role. Maybe like that tank, they are just looking for quick-and-easy transmutes (in which case it’s quite easy to put together a group for that purpose). One should at least give the group and players a chance.

My regular dungeon group now consists of two sub-500 CP players, one of whom was below 300 when we formed our group (met in a random PUG dungeon) and so we’d have to enter dungeons manually. We’ve even done hardmodes! Our leader believes in pushing our limits!

Your experience is the exception, not the norm. I’ve tanked in this game for many years now. For the most part, the vast majority of low CP players who join veteran dungeons as damage dealers do not have great builds, and many of them simply light attack or spam Acid Spray (when they’re not dead due to standing in highly visible AOEs). High CP is obviously not a guarantee that the player knows what they’re doing, but odds are better that they do. Most tanks know after the first trash pull what kind of damage dealers they’re working with, and will stay or bail accordingly.