Big nerf: damage shield of fatecarver…

OtarTheMad

It was bugged and now it’s fixed but I also don’t use this morph anymore. The shield is nice and all but I need that other morph because it helps keep NPCs and players lined up.

subarctic

“I would never run trials in a PUG.”

I use GF a lot, because I often play at hours when guildies are offline. A good shield is nice when you can’t know in advance if you can trust a random pug healer in a vet trial.

Chufu

subarctic wrote: »

Guess my days in vet trials are over. Damn.

Have fun the rest of you who are not unskilled like me (with 1500+ cp…)

I've played trifectas even before the patch with the other morph, no problem at all. If you don't stand in red all good.

subarctic

@Chufu

Well, good for you

Reginald_leBlem

You know, maybe you just aren't temperamentally suited to trials.

Jaimeh

OP when I started playing the game I was absolutely clueless, it was back in the veteran rank days and I was trying to dps, and I remember having a destro and a resto staff on a dungeon run, and the healer asking me why I was running with a resto, and I said I was too scared to play without the heals, and I thought it was normal for a dps Eventually I swapped to double destro, andover the years as I learned my role and content better, to pure parse food glass canon builds. I don't think the shield change is make or break, though I get that it might seem this way, but this change might help you to play more offensively and to learn to position better, and avoid damage. It might not happen overnight but give it a try. The shields are not there so someone can just cast skills while standing in red, and it's not a good habit to rely on them, because that way you will never improve raid awareness. They are there for emergency moments, when the tank or healer dies, or for fights with big incoming damage, or to lower risk in no-death runs. The arcanist doing the most damage while having insane mitigation wasn't balanced and had to be tuned down, and the change is not that substantial., so if you enjoy running group content you can use this opportunity to adapt your playstyle and maybe also improving as a player.

Soarora

On the beam morph used by “talented” endgamers (skill =/= talent, most endgamers are skilled, not talented, which means yes, you can get there too unless you have something blocking you from getting better), it’s personal preference, really. Some people say no-shield beam is more damage, some say shield beam is comparable damage plus shield which makes it better. Either way, I’ve tried both and I’ve swapped to shield beam because I use it to beam through mechanics such as weapon waves in DSR HM first boss instead of blocking so I can still do damage. I hear in many content people just beaming through damage because of the shield. The shorter beam time also helps for doing mechanics because you’d otherwise have to cancel your beam.

TLDR; both beams used by endgamers, shield beam isn’t just for low skill.

Tannus15

@subarctic if dying is the problem then swap to sets that make you less likely to die.

like Mother Ciannait:

1 item: Adds 25-1096 Maximum Magicka
2 items: While in combat, casting an ability with a cast time or channeling an ability grants you a damage shield that absorbs 116-5000 damage for 6 seconds. If the damage shield is broken, you restore 22-985 Magicka. This effect can occur once every 7 seconds.

extra free shield every time you cast beam.

NoSoup

I think more people are going to notice the bug fix than the actual nerf. Now that it follows the standard of being capped to a % of your max health (low hp DPS looking at you) it's never going to be close to as big of a shield as it could get before.

Not sure the nerf was really necessary now that it is correctly following the precedents on shields but eitherway its not that huge of a deal. Just switch to the other morph and add a shield to your rotation so that you pop shield then carve.

AlterBlika

NoSoup wrote: »

I think more people are going to notice the bug fix than the actual nerf. Now that it follows the standard of being capped to a % of your max health (low hp DPS looking at you) it's never going to be close to as big of a shield as it could get before.

I marvel how they didn't fix this issue for almost a year. If it was an issue in the first place, because brawler for example can easily grant you a bigger shield. 50% cap for a channel seems really bad ngl, but given it's a skill with good ranged aoe damage I think it's well balanced.

CP5

Soarora wrote: »

On the beam morph used by “talented” endgamers (skill =/= talent, most endgamers are skilled, not talented, which means yes, you can get there too unless you have something blocking you from getting better), it’s personal preference, really. Some people say no-shield beam is more damage, some say shield beam is comparable damage plus shield which makes it better. Either way, I’ve tried both and I’ve swapped to shield beam because I use it to beam through mechanics such as weapon waves in DSR HM first boss instead of blocking so I can still do damage. I hear in many content people just beaming through damage because of the shield. The shorter beam time also helps for doing mechanics because you’d otherwise have to cancel your beam.

TLDR; both beams used by endgamers, shield beam isn’t just for low skill.

I was curious and looked at ESO Logs for last patch. It seems the ratio of beam morphs is 3:1 in favor of Pragmatic in Sanity's Edge, closer to 2:1 in Dreadsail Reef, Kyne's Aegis, Rockgrove, and Cloudrest, with an almost even 1:1 split in Sunspire. Asylum Sanctorium is unique in having Pragmatic Fatecarvers being used 94 times out of the 100 logged players, so Pragmatic is normally a very even call, but in content that is new or demanding of survivability Pragmatic's use rises significantly.

kevkj

I will miss having a shield bigger than my HP bar :'(

RaikaNA

subarctic wrote: »

I already have Fortified and Bastion in the CP tree.

“you’ll be fine”

Say that to the groups that kick me when dying too often.

I can’t really notice that my dmg has been nerfed, but the shield disappears quickly now. Good players don’t use the shield anyway, so this nerf only excludes less skilled players from vet trials.

With all due respect if someone is less skilled they shouldn't be doing hard content. If you're wiping a lot on vet.. perhaps you need to spend more time on normal so you can better understand the mechanics, or join a progressive training group.

Ph1p

sarahthes wrote: »

Ph1p wrote: »

subarctic wrote: »

“understand that it had to go.”

Why? Talented gamers don’t use pragmatic fatecarver anyway. Now we get more wipes in PUGs, more toxicity incoming in chat…

Literally every Arcanist is (and most likely will be) using Pragmatic Fatecarver in group PVE, including beginner, intermediate, experienced, and score-pushing players.

You already called the shield a "placebo effect" that's just "in your head", so I have every confidence that you can actually do vet trials and other content. You probably already considered it, but I would also recommend finding a beginner-friendly guild to run trials instead of PUGs, if you are learning.

LOL you are wrong about endgamers using pragmatic. Only time we use it is in 4 man content with 3 DDs and no healer. In trials we use exhausting.

ESO Logs trial statistics tell a very different story, even when looking only at HM runs. You're right though, the other morph is definitely used, too, and I will amend my post to reflect that. But in all DLC HM trials except Dreadsail and Rockgrove, Pragmatic outnumbers Exhausting, often by a significant margin.

Vulkunne

So I have like a fully-leveled Arcanist but I don't ever play it. But still I have other characters that use shields and the rule I have about shields, is yeah shields are great as like a form of temporary support. In other words it doesn't have to be the strongest shield, its the fact that its there that matters. It's doing something but I never expect it to carry me.

It helps and then it moves on. I would never 'anchor' my success totally against a shield with it being a little stronger or weaker. It is helpful, it is somewhat-necessary yet its also 'superfluous' in the grand scheme of things.

sarahthes

Ph1p wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Ph1p wrote: »

subarctic wrote: »

“understand that it had to go.”

Why? Talented gamers don’t use pragmatic fatecarver anyway. Now we get more wipes in PUGs, more toxicity incoming in chat…

Literally every Arcanist is (and most likely will be) using Pragmatic Fatecarver in group PVE, including beginner, intermediate, experienced, and score-pushing players.

You already called the shield a "placebo effect" that's just "in your head", so I have every confidence that you can actually do vet trials and other content. You probably already considered it, but I would also recommend finding a beginner-friendly guild to run trials instead of PUGs, if you are learning.

LOL you are wrong about endgamers using pragmatic. Only time we use it is in 4 man content with 3 DDs and no healer. In trials we use exhausting.

ESO Logs trial statistics tell a very different story, even when looking only at HM runs. You're right though, the other morph is definitely used, too, and I will amend my post to reflect that. But in all DLC HM trials except Dreadsail and Rockgrove, Pragmatic outnumbers Exhausting, often by a significant margin.

Check the trifecta logs. And the dates of the logs too. There was a shift part way thru the patch.

Also keep in mind most of the top teams logs are unlisted or private.

francesinhalover

subarctic wrote: »

Guess my days in vet trials are over. Damn.

Have fun the rest of you who are not unskilled like me (with 1500+ cp…)

Just wait till beam is removed in around 2 years...

subarctic

“You know, maybe you just aren't temperamentally suited to trials”

Duh

But have done vCR+0, so obviously not completely unfit for trials.

I’m just pointing out a fact: nerfing the shield will make it harder for less skilled players to survive in vet trials, especially in pugs. It will then be harder for healers too, and when relatively unskilled players die more often, the result is that we get more complaints in chat, and it increases the chance that people get kicked or the good players just leave a group.

Ph1p

sarahthes wrote: »

Ph1p wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Ph1p wrote: »

subarctic wrote: »

“understand that it had to go.”

Why? Talented gamers don’t use pragmatic fatecarver anyway. Now we get more wipes in PUGs, more toxicity incoming in chat…

Literally every Arcanist is (and most likely will be) using Pragmatic Fatecarver in group PVE, including beginner, intermediate, experienced, and score-pushing players.

You already called the shield a "placebo effect" that's just "in your head", so I have every confidence that you can actually do vet trials and other content. You probably already considered it, but I would also recommend finding a beginner-friendly guild to run trials instead of PUGs, if you are learning.

LOL you are wrong about endgamers using pragmatic. Only time we use it is in 4 man content with 3 DDs and no healer. In trials we use exhausting.

ESO Logs trial statistics tell a very different story, even when looking only at HM runs. You're right though, the other morph is definitely used, too, and I will amend my post to reflect that. But in all DLC HM trials except Dreadsail and Rockgrove, Pragmatic outnumbers Exhausting, often by a significant margin.

Check the trifecta logs. And the dates of the logs too. There was a shift part way thru the patch.

Also keep in mind most of the top teams logs are unlisted or private.

Hi there, since you’re speaking from personal experience, I’ll happily take your word over mine. I only know one trifecta group and they use mainly Pragmatic. I also checked the overall HM leaderboards to confirm with a larger sample, which includes non-trifecta runs, but I obviously can’t take private logs into account.

However, my original point was a rebuttal to the OP’s notion that only “non-talented players” use Pragmatic Fatecarver and its shield. That is simply untrue, and I’ll leave it at that. Thanks for the insightful discussion!

subarctic

“my original point was a rebuttal to the OP’s notion that only “non-talented players” use Pragmatic Fatecarver and its shield”.

Fair enough. My notion was based on other discussions here where pro guildies said they didn’t use pragmatic, and why should they when the other morph has better damage? If they use pragmatic it’s because also some good gamers feel that they need it when doing some hard content.

And do these statics you mentioned reveal the skill level of players doing hard content? Or do they just indicate that pragmatic is now more common because less skilled players have started to play harder content?

I just did Infinite Archive and died much quicker when fighting a marauder. Have often beaten marauders with the old pragmatic shield. Now arcanist is too OP fighting trash, which is boring, but not good enough in my case when fighting marauders. IA then naturally becomes less attractive. Will play it less. Will also do fewer vet trials.

Ingenon

RaikaNA wrote: »

With all due respect if someone is less skilled they shouldn't be doing hard content. If you're wiping a lot on vet.. perhaps you need to spend more time on normal so you can better understand the mechanics, or join a progressive training group.

Many trial mechanics on normal do less damage than on veteran. And I have been in groups that have ignored several mechanics on normal setting and successfully cleared. I believe that running a trial on normal with most groups does not prepare you for the same trial on veteran.

I agree that joining a progressive training group can be helpful.

subarctic

“With all due respect if someone is less skilled they shouldn't be doing hard content.”

With all due respect, I’m a long-term subscriber to ESO and have invested a lot of time and money on this game, so I will express my discontent when devs make changes that excludes me and other less talented gamers from hard content that I have paid for.

This could have been solved easily if ESO had not stopped vertical progression at around 1500 cp. If it was possible to get skins and personalities from the hardest content if one had 36,000 cp (10 x more than what the best gamers have today), then I would have played a 110 years + 53 hours to get all those cp, but today I’m blocked from doing hard content because the latter depends on talent and gaming skills that I simply don’t have.

Reginald_leBlem

If you cannot survive in an average vet trial without a 30k shield 24/7, then you simply lack the raid awareness to be doing vet trials.

Braffin

subarctic wrote: »

“With all due respect if someone is less skilled they shouldn't be doing hard content.”

With all due respect, I’m a long-term subscriber to ESO and have invested a lot of time and money on this game, so I will express my discontent when devs make changes that excludes me and other less talented gamers from hard content that I have paid for.

This could have been solved easily if ESO had not stopped vertical progression at around 1500 cp. If it was possible to get skins and personalities from the hardest content if one had 36,000 cp (10 x more than what the best gamers have today), then I would have played a 110 years + 53 hours to get all those cp, but today I’m blocked from doing hard content because the latter depends on talent and gaming skills that I simply don’t have.

I don't get it.

If you are that sure you are lacking the skill for higher difficulty, why the heck are you torturing yourself by choosing whatever is too hard and unenjoyful for you?

Lower difficulties are there for a reason: to let everyone experience the content they paid for at a difficulty they're comfortable with.

subarctic

“I don't get it.”

[Snip]

“If it was possible to get skins and personalities from the hardest content if one had 36,000 cp (10 x more than what the best gamers have today), then I would have played a 110 years + 53 hours to get all those cp …”

[Snip] I play hard content to get skins, personalities, dyes and mounts. [Snip]

After I got the beast personality I’m not playing vMoS again. If I get the caustic arrow bow, I’m definitely not doing the masochistic vBRP ever again.

[Edited for baiting]

Braffin

subarctic wrote: »

“I don't get it.”

[Snip]

“ If it was possible to get skins and personalities from the hardest content if one had 36,000 cp (10 x more than what the best gamers have today), then I would have played a 110 years + 53 hours to get all those cp …”

[Snip] I play hard content to get skins, personalities, dies and mounts. [Snip]

After I got the beast personality I’m not playing vMoS again. If I get the caustic arrow bow, I’m definitely not doing the masochistic vBRP ever again.

[Snip]

It seems you aren't really interested in the actual content itself but would prefer to do something else instead. No wonder you're having a bad time in there.

[Edited quote and for removed content]

subarctic

“meeting the requirements”

My subscription is the requirement. When you pay for an MMORPG, you expect a gameplay of progression that eventually makes it possible to get everything the game has to offer.

If you read what I wrote above, you will notice that I’m willing to spend many years on farming cp, so that I, in a distant future, can do content that once was very hard in the past. At that point, in a distant future, elite players have already moved on to even harder content. ESO, in other words, lacks a good system for progression.

subarctic

“It seems you aren't really interested in the actual content itself but would prefer to do something else instead. No wonder you're having a bad time in there.”

I’ve played vBRP with gamers that have much more talent than me and they struggled too and said they would never do it again, after they finished vBRP without me.

When you must grind the same content many times, it eventually becomes relatively boring, but you endure it because of the rewards.

Braffin

subarctic wrote: »

“meeting the requirements”

My subscription is the requirement. When you pay for an MMORPG, you expect a gameplay of progression that eventually makes it possible to get everything the game has to offer.

If you read what I wrote above, you will notice that I’m willing to spend many years on farming cp, so that I, in a distant future, can do content that once was very hard in the past. At that point, in a distant future, elite players have already moved on to even harder content. ESO, in other words, lacks a good system for progression.

Show us the respective passages in ToS explaining, that access to eso's service is equal to "getting everything in the game" and I'll consider your argument.

If you are willing to grind for said rewards, there is already a solution tho: Buy yourself a carry.

It's no shame to do so (unless you're trying to brag with completion afterwards) but simply a trade.

Baertram

arcs all like to stand behind for some reason!

It's not only Arcs! SO MANY players run behind the "front conal heal skill using" healers and if you move they run away again.
Or even step out of ultimates that help em.
So annoying if ppl do not know other classes/skills or where to position.

As if they fear they cannot see properly anymore if you move behind them