Templar Sweeps / Jabs and Status Effects

Altyrann

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Will the proc chance for status effects on these skills be brought into line with other direct damage abilities given the increased focus on status effects for damage? Right now they still seem to proc as though they are DoT skills.

Cast_El

Templar ? Don't know what it is? A class ? Enemy of Ezio in assassin's Creed? 🤣

mmtaniac

No one care about templar mains feelings It's sad that we are treated as no one. We should probabably whine about nerfing templar more ,on nightblades it's work they buff them constantly.

bar_boss_A

I have read in another post that multihit abilities like jabs and flurry have a reduced status effect chance per hit to overall match single hit abilities. In another I read that once you proc a status effect from one rune blade tick the remaining ticks cannot proc a status effect.

I agree that they would be overpowered otherwise but it is not intuitive at all.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Altyrann wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Will the proc chance for status effects on these skills be brought into line with other direct damage abilities given the increased focus on status effects for damage? Right now they still seem to proc as though they are DoT skills.

U41 Patch notes

Power of the Light: Morph now always applies the Sundered status effect.


If you are templar not using PotL you doing something wrong.

virtus753

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Altyrann wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Will the proc chance for status effects on these skills be brought into line with other direct damage abilities given the increased focus on status effects for damage? Right now they still seem to proc as though they are DoT skills.

U41 Patch notes

Power of the Light: Morph now always applies the Sundered status effect.


If you are templar not using PotL you doing something wrong.

That’s irrelevant to the fact that Jabs doesn’t seem to be proccing status effects as often as it should.

Even when just considering the uptime of Sundered’s new buff, PotL can only give it for 4 out of 6 seconds. You will need other sources to fill in the gap. If your main spammable isn’t applying status effects as often as it should, that’s a problem with or without PotL.

Altyrann

bar_boss_A wrote: »

I have read in another post that multihit abilities like jabs and flurry have a reduced status effect chance per hit to overall match single hit abilities. In another I read that once you proc a status effect from one rune blade tick the remaining ticks cannot proc a status effect.

I agree that they would be overpowered otherwise but it is not intuitive at all.

This is why I'm hoping someone on the ZOS side can clarify.

Jabs / Sweeps is an AoE Direct Damage skill, but there seems to be some hidden mechanic changing proc chance beyond that and not sure if deliberate and undocumented or a bug.

Altyrann

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Altyrann wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Will the proc chance for status effects on these skills be brought into line with other direct damage abilities given the increased focus on status effects for damage? Right now they still seem to proc as though they are DoT skills.

U41 Patch notes

Power of the Light: Morph now always applies the Sundered status effect.


If you are templar not using PotL you doing something wrong.

In U41 the status effect damage will also be much more relevant so it's not just about uptime on breach or WD/SD buff but also the underlying damage of applying status effect less than expected.

For Magplar also impacts sustain as Overcharged will return Mag.

ElderSmitter

virtus753 wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Altyrann wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Will the proc chance for status effects on these skills be brought into line with other direct damage abilities given the increased focus on status effects for damage? Right now they still seem to proc as though they are DoT skills.

U41 Patch notes

Power of the Light: Morph now always applies the Sundered status effect.


If you are templar not using PotL you doing something wrong.

That’s irrelevant to the fact that Jabs doesn’t seem to be proccing status effects as often as it should.

Even when just considering the uptime of Sundered’s new buff, PotL can only give it for 4 out of 6 seconds. You will need other sources to fill in the gap. If your main spammable isn’t applying status effects as often as it should, that’s a problem with or without PotL.

POTL new Effect is Massive for Templar. You are almost always at the Pen Cap on Overland so losing Minor Breach there for 2 seconds does not even matter. Keeping the Weapon Damage and Applying Sundered Damage twice in the same hit more than makes up for it. Most Overland has a Pen of 9k and If i recall the Max is 12k and that is in Arena's. There are tons of ways to max the Pen Cap. Templar came out smelling like a rose.

In group content the Tank already puts Minor Breach on the enemies.

I bet more Players do not understand how Penetration Works than actually understands how Penetration Works.

splitsand

They don't care about templar, just slot beam and sit in the back for execute.

virtus753

ElderSmitter wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Altyrann wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Will the proc chance for status effects on these skills be brought into line with other direct damage abilities given the increased focus on status effects for damage? Right now they still seem to proc as though they are DoT skills.

U41 Patch notes

Power of the Light: Morph now always applies the Sundered status effect.


If you are templar not using PotL you doing something wrong.

That’s irrelevant to the fact that Jabs doesn’t seem to be proccing status effects as often as it should.

Even when just considering the uptime of Sundered’s new buff, PotL can only give it for 4 out of 6 seconds. You will need other sources to fill in the gap. If your main spammable isn’t applying status effects as often as it should, that’s a problem with or without PotL.

POTL new Effect is Massive for Templar. You are almost always at the Pen Cap on Overland so losing Minor Breach there for 2 seconds does not even matter. Keeping the Weapon Damage and Applying Sundered Damage twice in the same hit more than makes up for it. Most Overland has a Pen of 9k and If i recall the Max is 12k and that is in Arena's. There are tons of ways to max the Pen Cap. Templar came out smelling like a rose.

In group content the Tank already puts Minor Breach on the enemies.

I bet more Players do not understand how Penetration Works than actually understands how Penetration Works.

I’m entirely unclear on how this is relevant. I understand exactly how penetration works. (Enemies have an armor rating of 18.2k in dungeons and trials even on normal, by the way; it’s often much higher in PvP.) But I am not talking about penetration in the least. My post was about the weapon damage from Sundered, not the Minor Breach.

Sundered applies its buff for 4 seconds. You cannot hit PotL more frequently than once per 6 seconds or you lose a ton of damage from that skill. So you get the buff for 4 seconds, wait two seconds, get it again for 4 seconds (during which you can recast PotL), and then again have to wait another two seconds for PotL to explode. You will always have that gap of 2 seconds (33.3% of PotL’s duration) where the Sundered from PotL falls off.

Since PotL can only offer a 2/3 uptime on the new weapon damage buff from Sundered, it is not a solution for Jabs not proccing Sundered as often as it should.

Billium813

bar_boss_A wrote: »

I agree that they would be overpowered otherwise but it is not intuitive at all.

This sums up most of ESO combat design

silentxthreat

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin can one of you 2 chime in on this to help us understand? thanks for your time

Altyrann

Anyone had a chance to test since the patch?

sneakymitchell

Altyrann wrote: »

Anyone had a chance to test since the patch?

I have. Sunder seems to proc less with jabs. Probably burning light procs more with its effect. I didn’t use power of the light. I use purified light cause heal seems more better than procing sunder a lot. But I think if you got weapon stam enchant you proc more sunder. I back bar my bow. Use magic for the front for getting my magic resources back which is way too much sometimes if in a group with a healer.

I am werewolf the sunder procs well from howl good chunk. Well using pack leader and dire wolves proc sunder easily thanks to the quick attacks they got.

In long run jabs still feels like aoe DoT so chance to proc status is pretty low. But burning light status will proc more cause it’s direct hit per target. Wish there was a split magic and physical but I guess that be too much to ask and the status effect be crazy.

ElderSmitter

Altyrann wrote: »

Anyone had a chance to test since the patch?

POTL is awesome! The extra damage opens up a lot of opportunities. I no longer Slot most Blue CP Stars that give you 6% Damage either like (Thamaturge, or Biting Aura). Plus, the additional Status effect damage is great too!

ElderSmitter

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Altyrann wrote: »

Anyone had a chance to test since the patch?

I have. Sunder seems to proc less with jabs. Probably burning light procs more with its effect. I didn’t use power of the light. I use purified light cause heal seems more better than procing sunder a lot. But I think if you got weapon stam enchant you proc more sunder. I back bar my bow. Use magic for the front for getting my magic resources back which is way too much sometimes if in a group with a healer.

I am werewolf the sunder procs well from howl good chunk. Well using pack leader and dire wolves proc sunder easily thanks to the quick attacks they got.

In long run jabs still feels like aoe DoT so chance to proc status is pretty low. But burning light status will proc more cause it’s direct hit per target. Wish there was a split magic and physical but I guess that be too much to ask and the status effect be crazy.

Under no PVE Circumstances would I Slot Purifying over POTL. None Zip Zippo!

sneakymitchell

ElderSmitter wrote: »

Under no PVE Circumstances would I Slot Purifying over POTL. None Zip Zippo!

Still useful if you got companion tank with you getting little extra heals. Group content just in case heals are lacking.

Altyrann

Did some testing with no gear, passives or other skills. 100 casts of Sweeps, so 300 impacts, and only 4 procs of Overcharged, suggesting proc rate is that of an AoE DoT (1%) rather than AoE Direct Damage (5%)

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno

virtus753

After doing some testing with Biting Jabs, I wonder if ZOS may be trying to aim for a 5% rate for each cast, not for each hit.

To get that, each hit would have a chance of 1.7% (0.983 * 0.983 * 0.983 = 0.95), which is similar to what I've been seeing. 1.33% is not far off, if on the low end. I've gotten as much as 2-2.5% with 300-400 hits.

Altyrann

virtus753 wrote: »

After doing some testing with Biting Jabs, I wonder if ZOS may be trying to aim for a 5% rate for each cast, not for each hit.

To get that, each hit would have a chance of 1.7% (0.983 * 0.983 * 0.983 = 0.95), which is similar to what I've been seeing. 1.33% is not far off, if on the low end. I've gotten as much as 2-2.5% with 300-400 hits.

Did you make sure you had all the passives and CP that affect proc chance turned off? Just to make sure it's base chance you're seeing.

I'll try to do a similar test of Force Pulse later with the same blank setup as above as that is also a three hit spammable and see if lines up with ST DD proc chance or something else.

Altyrann

Same setup as above with no gear, passives or CP (though did have to use a destro staff just to cast the skill)

200 casts, 600 hits

Casts were spread out so burning wouldn't overlap, so every 3 hits from burning is a single proc.

That gives 600 hits, with 49 procs, which is around an 8% proc rate, which looks closest to the ST DD proc rate of 10%.

Something definitely off with Sweeps.

virtus753

Altyrann wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

After doing some testing with Biting Jabs, I wonder if ZOS may be trying to aim for a 5% rate for each cast, not for each hit.

To get that, each hit would have a chance of 1.7% (0.983 * 0.983 * 0.983 = 0.95), which is similar to what I've been seeing. 1.33% is not far off, if on the low end. I've gotten as much as 2-2.5% with 300-400 hits.

Did you make sure you had all the passives and CP that affect proc chance turned off? Just to make sure it's base chance you're seeing.

I'll try to do a similar test of Force Pulse later with the same blank setup as above as that is also a three hit spammable and see if lines up with ST DD proc chance or something else.

Yes, I did tests without any applicable bonuses to status effect chance. I also repeated the tests with the pertinent +60% CP on and other tests with charged and calculated what the rate should be accounting for those. It’s consistently below 3% for me, which it should not be if the chance were 3% per hit (would expect some rates above that and some below). It’s definitely not 5% per hit.