PC players, Do you use Add-ons?

TaSheen

Yes

Kendaric wrote: »

ElderOfTamriel wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I did...now I think it's silly and unnecessary.

you never use TTC?

Why is that so surprising for you? I don't use TTC either as I don't see any point in it (I'm guildless by choice)

Makes two of us.

Tandor

No

TaSheen wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

ElderOfTamriel wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I did...now I think it's silly and unnecessary.

you never use TTC?

Why is that so surprising for you? I don't use TTC either as I don't see any point in it (I'm guildless by choice)

Makes two of us.

Make that three of us.

Auldwulfe

No

I do not use them.....
If I need 3rd party software to be able to play the game, am I really playing that game?

Auldwulfe

SilverBride

Yes

Auldwulfe wrote: »

I do not use them.....
If I need 3rd party software to be able to play the game, am I really playing that game?

I don't need them to be able to play the game. But the conveniences they offer that free up more time for me to do the things I enjoy in game really enhance my experience.

Varana

Yes

"That game" is also not some form of untouchable artistic vision or whatever.
It is a (very complex) piece of software, the result of countless compromises and workarounds to account for technical limitations, time constraints, financial pressure, and much more.
And then you buy that piece of software (or buy the right to use it, these days), and it becomes your game.
If you don't agree with one of the solutions they came up with - change it!
It's your game that you're playing.
If you find certain aspects tedious or not fun or overcomplicated - or too easy or too simplified - change them!
The purpose of this piece of software is to provide a good experience to you. If you can enhance that experience, do it.
Now, the ability to change things are somewhat limited in ESO, due to its multiplayer nature. But the aspects that can be changed, are free to be adapted to whatever you personally think is a better experience.

Reginald_leBlem

Yes

Sarannah wrote: »

No, they completely change the ESO experience into a spreadsheet/UI clutter instead of a game.

Also, I do consider some add-ons cheats, as they offer a clear advantage over other players who are not using add-ons. Like the ones that show resource nodes, treasure chests, thieves troves, and other locations. The ones that auto-repair/autocharge weapons and such. And many more. which are a clear advantage over other players without add-ons. I also consider some add-ons forms of botting, like the crafting writ add-ons. And feel ZOS should not allow that, as they are basically removing crafting as a specific part of the game for players to enjoy/specialize in. They would never allow the same automation add-ons for dungeons/trials/PvP/arena's, but somehow they allow it in this one specific part of the game.

In my opinion, which most players disagree with, ZOS should remove ALL add-ons from the game completely. At the very least ZOS should remove all add-ons that grant advantages over other players(no matter how small), and all add-ons from PvP completely.

PS: It's ok to disagree with me!
PPS: I'm not against adding some basic add-on functionality to the base game, as that would be a level playing field for everyone still.

It's not "unfair" or an advantage-- ALL players on PC have the option to use addons.

Mesite

Console player - would just like to comment

SilverBride wrote: »

Mesite wrote: »

On console I don't miss the error messages and I feel relieved that I can play the way it's meant to be played without having to 'cheat'

It has already been established that add-ons are not cheating. If they were ZoS would not allow them.

I understand that it isn't cheating, and I agree but as using add-ons isn't part of the original game then it felt wrong for me hence cheat was in quotes. It's more of an individual morality, like spoiling lemonade by adding vodka.

Aurielle

Yes

Yes, and I consider the add ons I use to be essential.

Personal Assistant in particular was an absolute game changer for me re: inventory management. Its profile system makes it incredibly easy for me to share gear, siege, and crafting materials between my main and my alts. The fact that you can specify exactly how many of each item to keep in your bank vs your bags, and adjust those amounts by profile is just so awesome.

Lazy Writs is another must have. Crafting writs on multiple alts used to be so annoying and time consuming. I played on console for several years, and could never go back. The inventory clutter alone… I used to have to devote one day every week to pre-crafting all the possible writ items, because I didn’t always have the time every day to spend 45+ minutes just doing writs.

Aurielle

Yes

Auldwulfe wrote: »

I do not use them.....
If I need 3rd party software to be able to play the game, am I really playing that game?

Auldwulfe

I had something like 9 characters on console. Crafting writs on those characters used to be a 45+ minute ordeal if I didn’t have anything pre-crafted. I often only have an hour to play. Thanks to PC add ons, I can craft writs AND play the parts of the game I actually enjoy, rather than spending most of my play time doing annoying daily busywork.

TaSheen

Yes

Mesite wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Mesite wrote: »

On console I don't miss the error messages and I feel relieved that I can play the way it's meant to be played without having to 'cheat'

It has already been established that add-ons are not cheating. If they were ZoS would not allow them.

I understand that it isn't cheating, and I agree but as using add-ons isn't part of the original game then it felt wrong for me hence cheat was in quotes. It's more of an individual morality, like spoiling lemonade by adding vodka.

I was under the impression that the use of addons was planned from the first by the devs....

Tandor

No

TaSheen wrote: »

Mesite wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Mesite wrote: »

On console I don't miss the error messages and I feel relieved that I can play the way it's meant to be played without having to 'cheat'

It has already been established that add-ons are not cheating. If they were ZoS would not allow them.

I understand that it isn't cheating, and I agree but as using add-ons isn't part of the original game then it felt wrong for me hence cheat was in quotes. It's more of an individual morality, like spoiling lemonade by adding vodka.

I was under the impression that the use of addons was planned from the first by the devs....

I don't know the exact situation as I wasn't in beta, but my understanding is that ZOS came under a lot of pressure from the TES modding community to include mods in ESO. Whether that was before or during beta I can't say. I believe they may have simplified their original interface to allow some of the features to be added by modders - such as the original mini-map, for example.

Danikat

Yes

I'd love to know what the actual percentage of PC players who use addons is. I suspect the majority of players who don't use them also don't visit the forum. For me it's always talking to other players that enables me to find out about mods I want to use in games.

Although a couple of times I've done it because I go looking for how to fix a bug in a game and find out there isn't an official fix but there is a mod which does it.

Tandor wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Mesite wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Mesite wrote: »

On console I don't miss the error messages and I feel relieved that I can play the way it's meant to be played without having to 'cheat'

It has already been established that add-ons are not cheating. If they were ZoS would not allow them.

I understand that it isn't cheating, and I agree but as using add-ons isn't part of the original game then it felt wrong for me hence cheat was in quotes. It's more of an individual morality, like spoiling lemonade by adding vodka.

I was under the impression that the use of addons was planned from the first by the devs....

I don't know the exact situation as I wasn't in beta, but my understanding is that ZOS came under a lot of pressure from the TES modding community to include mods in ESO. Whether that was before or during beta I can't say. I believe they may have simplified their original interface to allow some of the features to be added by modders - such as the original mini-map, for example.

I wasn't involved until the public betas so this is mostly second hand, but as I understand it they originally set out simply to make an MMO set in the Elder Scrolls world, so the game design and especially the UI was largely inspired by other MMOs, with the lore, setting etc. from TES games. Here's an example from 2011:

Then Skyrim was a massive success. TES games had sold well previously, but Morrowind sold 4 million copies in 3 years, Oblivion sold 4 million in 5 years, Skyrim sold 7 million in a week. ZOS realised a big part of the market for ESO would be Elder Scrolls fans, and they would expect the game to look and function like previous TES games (especially Skyrim) so they set out to re-design it to meet those expectations, especially redesigning the UI and adjusting the art style. That included hiding the mini map (they've never removed it) and adding a compass because TES games have never had mini maps.

They might have already been planning to include mods, because many older MMOs have strong modding communities, but I know by the time they were advertising for beta testers they were already saying in interviews that ESO would allow UI mods, because they know it's important to many TES fans.

(Incidentally I think their efforts paid off, not just because I prefer the minimal UI they ended up with but because my first concern when I found out about the game was that it'd be like some other games around then where a 3rd party company basically made a generic WoW clone then licenced an existing IP and quickly re-skinned what they'd already made to mostly fit that setting to give it a ready-made fan base. Finding out ZOS is part of the same company as Bethesda helped, but seeing how much the game looked and felt like a TES game went a long way to convincing me it was something I wanted to play.)

prof-dracko

No

The only thing I use it TTC, and even then it's not the add-on. It's the website. Takes barely any extra time. IMO while add-ons might be useful it seems like a lot of extra potential hassle making sure everything plays nice when I've been going about 5-6 years without them and never struggled with anything.

I think all the people saying the game would be unplayable without them have just become too dependent. I can complete all my writs in about two or three minutes, including deconning all the gear I collected, and opening the map takes a single button press. I hardly think I need any help with those.

If they were required to play and enjoy the game they'd be part of the system already. And while ZOS is slowly adding some of them in, I expect a few more in this second Q3 "quality of life" update this year, I don't really feel I'm missing out on anything I can't already do with a minimal amount of extra effort.

Danikat

Yes

prof-dracko wrote: »

The only thing I use it TTC, and even then it's not the add-on. It's the website. Takes barely any extra time. IMO while add-ons might be useful it seems like a lot of extra potential hassle making sure everything plays nice when I've been going about 5-6 years without them and never struggled with anything.

I think all the people saying the game would be unplayable without them have just become too dependent. I can complete all my writs in about two or three minutes, including deconning all the gear I collected, and opening the map takes a single button press. I hardly think I need any help with those.

If they were required to play and enjoy the game they'd be part of the system already. And while ZOS is slowly adding some of them in, I expect a few more in this second Q3 "quality of life" update this year, I don't really feel I'm missing out on anything I can't already do with a minimal amount of extra effort.

The one addon I think they should include in the base game is the mini map, because it's already there. Several mini map addons just un-hide the mini map ZOS built, and kept in the game but without any direct way for players to activate it.

(Also because I have no sense of direction so without a mini map I'm constantly opening the map to correct myself when I go off in the wrong direction.)

Mesite

Console player - would just like to comment

TaSheen wrote: »

Mesite wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Mesite wrote: »

'cheat'

.

I understand that it isn't cheating, and I agree but as using add-ons isn't part of the original game then it felt wrong for me hence cheat was in quotes. It's more of an individual morality, like spoiling lemonade by adding vodka.

I was under the impression that the use of addons was planned from the first by the devs....

I prefer to play it my way now, without add-ons to distract me. Nothing personal if any devs are listening, but have you seen some of their ideas? Lots of good ones, but a few bad.

SilverBride

Yes

Mesite wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Mesite wrote: »

On console I don't miss the error messages and I feel relieved that I can play the way it's meant to be played without having to 'cheat'

It has already been established that add-ons are not cheating. If they were ZoS would not allow them.

I understand that it isn't cheating, and I agree but as using add-ons isn't part of the original game then it felt wrong for me hence cheat was in quotes. It's more of an individual morality, like spoiling lemonade by adding vodka.

Some may consider that improving the lemonade.

But what I don't understand is how using a convenience that is fully allowed is a moral issue. Hacks and bots and other such cheats I can understand feeling morally against, but a convenience?

Tandor

No

SilverBride wrote: »

Mesite wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Mesite wrote: »

On console I don't miss the error messages and I feel relieved that I can play the way it's meant to be played without having to 'cheat'

It has already been established that add-ons are not cheating. If they were ZoS would not allow them.

I understand that it isn't cheating, and I agree but as using add-ons isn't part of the original game then it felt wrong for me hence cheat was in quotes. It's more of an individual morality, like spoiling lemonade by adding vodka.

Some may consider that improving the lemonade.

But what I don't understand is how using a convenience that is fully allowed is a moral issue. Hacks and bots and other such cheats I can understand feeling morally against, but a convenience?

I certainly wouldn't call it a moral issue, but taking shortcuts and arguably trivialising the content by using add-ons for e.g. showing the location of all the hidden things that are intended to be found by exploration aren't for everyone, any more than camping a dolmen for 50 quick levels while fully equipped with xp scrolls or maxing out out an alt or a main's switched class through the Crown Store etc would be. In that sense it could be argued that there's not a lot of distinction between some of the features provided by add-ons (which mostly everyone supports) and some of the features provided in the Crown Store (which mostly everyone criticises).

Each to his/her own, however! It's for that reason that I''m glad that the features provided by add-ons are purely optional, as indeed is every single item on sale in the Crown Store.

ElderOfTamriel

Yes

Kendaric wrote: »

ElderOfTamriel wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I did...now I think it's silly and unnecessary.

you never use TTC?

Why is that so surprising for you? I don't use TTC either as I don't see any point in it (I'm guildless by choice)

hm weird, how do you make gold then?

TaSheen

Yes

Probably like I do - writs every day on a few CP 160s. I've been playing for years. For the first year I had two accounts, with 9 characters each, and I did daily writs on each of them every day. By then I had plenty of gold, so I cut back to just my higher level characters.

I still have millions of gold and add to it over time. I do not bother with guilds in this game.

vsrs_au

For many of us, using addons has absolutely nothing to do with trivialising the content or cheating: we use the addons to rectify shortcomings in the game's UI and other features. It also may be nothing to do with adding more indicators to the HUD: some of the addons I use actually reduce the HUD's coverage of the screen. As mentioned already in this thread and many, many others: some of the addons are providing features that should have been present in the game already.

Dragonredux

Yes

I can play without it if everything broke one day but there's too many things I wish was a base features or just nice to have.

vsrs_au wrote: »

For many of us, using addons has absolutely nothing to do with trivialising the content or cheating

Yeah the game isn't play for you with addons otherwise everyone would be a Godslayer.

SkaraMinoc

Yes

Not sure why anyone would choose the base experience of an MMO when it's guaranteed to be inferior. Each player can handcraft their own UI experience which enhances the value of their game.

Addons provide a level of customization that can't be delivered by the game company's own internal development team. ZOS doesn't want to spend time and money to develop features that won't gain traction. So they outsource the creation of new features and see what "sticks".

Example: The Armory Station was created because of how popular/mandatory gear change addons are for many players (Wizard's Wardrobe, Dressing Room, AlphaGear, etc). So they made the addons a base game feature called The Armory Station and Armory Assistant and monetize it.

Purists claim that addons bypass content and give players an unfair advantage. If ZOS didn't want an addon or a particular feature of an addon to be in the game, they would remove the Lua API responsible for it. This has already been done with addons like BeamMeUp auto waypoint discovery which is no longer possible.

moo_2021

Yes

Auldwulfe wrote: »

I do not use them.....
If I need 3rd party software to be able to play the game, am I really playing that game?

Do you draw a map for ESO and mark survey nodes...?

Daoin

Yes

just the main add ons that most others use, a handful really. i want the game to remain as much along the lines of a game as possible without becoming to technically complicated to have fun anymore and those add ons are really great for doing that

Auldwulfe

No

moo_2021 wrote: »

Auldwulfe wrote: »

I do not use them.....
If I need 3rd party software to be able to play the game, am I really playing that game?

Do you draw a map for ESO and mark survey nodes...?

I find them when I find them, and have a fairly good memory -- works well enough that I have a Master Crafter

Auldwulfe

ElderOfTamriel

Yes

TaSheen wrote: »

Probably like I do - writs every day on a few CP 160s. I've been playing for years. For the first year I had two accounts, with 9 characters each, and I did daily writs on each of them every day. By then I had plenty of gold, so I cut back to just my higher level characters.

I still have millions of gold and add to it over time. I do not bother with guilds in this game.

ok you do writs. thats great. and what do you do with the writ vouchers you get from the writs? you might wanna buy stuff from Roolis the writ vendor no? bcs hoarding writ voucher doesnt give you any gold. and when you purchased stuff with the vouchers you...?

...sell them for the base gold value to a vendor or what? probably not, that would be pretty dumb.

youre porting through whole tamriel advertising your stuff and sell it through zone chat? probably neither bcs that would be a huge waste of time and not worth the effort when you can just put it in guild traders which will get datamined by ttc or eso-hub addons and youre stuff will even be displayed online on the biggest source for players when they search something specific.

also for how much you sell your stuff? youre scrolling through guild traders for hours in order to find the item youre gonna sell? youre probably one of these persons flippers buy cheap ass stuff from in zone chat lol

and how do you find stuff you would like to get? youre searching guild traders all over tamriel till you find it?

TaSheen

Yes

Wow. No need to be nasty.... I rarely buy anything at traders - there's just nothing I need from them. On the rare occasions that I need something (motif for master writs generally), I almost always can find it at the traders in Vivec. I sell nothing through traders, only guild I use is BMU.

With writ vouchers, at the moment, I'm buying the Grand Master stations on 2 accounts PC NA and 1 account PC EU. After I'm done with those, I'll go back to buying furninshing plans from Rolis and what's her name like I've always done.

Sorry I seem to have made you angry. Have a nice day.

ElderOfTamriel

Yes

TaSheen wrote: »

Wow. No need to be nasty.... I rarely buy anything at traders - there's just nothing I need from them. On the rare occasions that I need something (motif for master writs generally), I almost always can find it at the traders in Vivec. I sell nothing through traders, only guild I use is BMU.

With writ vouchers, at the moment, I'm buying the Grand Master stations on 2 accounts PC NA and 1 account PC EU. After I'm done with those, I'll go back to buying furninshing plans from Rolis and what's her name like I've always done.

Sorry I seem to have made you angry. Have a nice day.

lol haha no im not angry i just want to understand how you make your gold ^^ i was a bit offensive ik, that was on purpose what do you do with the double furnishing plans? i would try to sell them, they sometimes go for 100-150k each.

Baertram

Tandor wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Mesite wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Mesite wrote: »

On console I don't miss the error messages and I feel relieved that I can play the way it's meant to be played without having to 'cheat'

It has already been established that add-ons are not cheating. If they were ZoS would not allow them.

I understand that it isn't cheating, and I agree but as using add-ons isn't part of the original game then it felt wrong for me hence cheat was in quotes. It's more of an individual morality, like spoiling lemonade by adding vodka.

Some may consider that improving the lemonade.

But what I don't understand is how using a convenience that is fully allowed is a moral issue. Hacks and bots and other such cheats I can understand feeling morally against, but a convenience?

I certainly wouldn't call it a moral issue, but taking shortcuts and arguably trivialising the content by using add-ons for e.g. showing the location of all the hidden things that are intended to be found by exploration aren't for everyone, any more than camping a dolmen for 50 quick levels while fully equipped with xp scrolls or maxing out out an alt or a main's switched class through the Crown Store etc would be. In that sense it could be argued that there's not a lot of distinction between some of the features provided by add-ons (which mostly everyone supports) and some of the features provided in the Crown Store (which mostly everyone criticises).

Each to his/her own, however! It's for that reason that I''m glad that the features provided by add-ons are purely optional, as indeed is every single item on sale in the Crown Store.

Well, that's what a few players do.
The oher ones (majority) does not use those addons but others, that provide QOL features liek font increase, chat improvement and other shortcomings that other games provides, but ESO lacks since 10 years now...

I personally do not use many addons in combination, if I quest or play dungeons. Only very few -> to reduce loading times.
I only activate more addons if I'm crafting and too lazy to remember all ingredients etc. For me, who is playing this game since 10 yaers meanwhile, it's a must have to stay at the game as without addons I'd be missing things for daily usage that the game simply does bad or even wrong (in UI terms).

I'm not speaking about Lazy Writ Crafter e.g. I can activate that "Quest only" button at the crafting UI and press teh carft buttons manually, same for the quest accept and turn in boxes.

But I speak about protecting my items properly without having to manually click and repeat like 10000 times and stressign my fingers that way. Or crafting items for a small guild toon where I'd have to remember ALL combiantions of materials just for the correct glyph? Sorry, no thanks. My brain needs to store more important information

I personally dislike all addons in PVP (at least the ones that add helpers for fighting, groups, markers etc) and I would force to disable them all in PVP regions. Simple and equal for all. I even dislike helper addons in dungeons et such. I'd also disallow them there, but that's only me and I see that many players got problems to see the boss effects etc. in fight, where addons can help to "regain teh fun of playing!". -> That's something that actually ZOs shiuld fix and reduce the effects, make it more clear and provide help for the ones who need it (accessibility mode -> add/improve skills reading and usage information, enemy information below crosshair etc.).

Sarannah wrote: »

Players do seem to only look at the good side of add-ons, namely the advantages/QoL they grant. But there is also a major darkside to add-ons:
-1: Hacking: if someone plants a virus in an add-on, or the program that updates add-ons, their account can be heavily impacted. Doesn't even have to be the add-on maker, it could also be the website that hosts the add-ons.
-2: If one of the add-on creators, strangers basically, decides to add a function that whenever you log in it automatically mails all your gold/materials to them. There would be nothing anyone could do.

What addons are not: Cheats or hacks! And using this word in combination with addons is just wrong, sorry.

To your fears about addons (to the initial thread starter), that they hack or steal your account or data:
That's not happening or did you hear of any of these problems since 2014?
ZOs fixed the gold sending bug there already.

Since then: What has happened? Any proofs please? And please do not only "write your unfounded fears" about something you do not understand properly, as it seems. Facts please. Else we could always argue that something "could happen"...
-> Fears are okay but spreading them without any reason is bad!

AddOns cannot steal your account nor damage it. And if so they use ZOs' API, the same the game uses. So what is the different between an addon and vanilla ESO game code then? Even the game could do the same as an addon does ;-)

And if addons include any external executable files like TTC the client.exe, which reads your SavedVariable files and uploads your selling data to the servers, these are either open source soyou can check the code, or you can leave them alone and not use them if you fear they could spy or do whatever you dislike.

So it's always an easy choice: Either use them or not (Addons in general or addons with external executables).
But disallowing them for the ones who really need them (disabled players, players with handicaps, players that get old and want to relief their hands and brain, etc.) is just a no-go and should not be forced by a few players that have a unreasonable fear...

As long as you got a on/off switch and are not foced to use them, all should be fine. I'm a fan of settings where you can turn things off you dislike, and ESO provides those ;-)

Masteroshi430

Yes

It is quite funny indeed:
- That "addons = cheating" thing
- Content creators for ZOS = Streamers, youtubers, fan artists [oups, no addons authors here]

I came from another game where addons were tolerated at a time the game was in maintenance mode (and at that time the addons were literally keeping the player base from moving to another game) and later became illegal/forbidden so I had to quit modding for that game, but here addons are 100% supported by the game via an API and I there is still a tiny bit of "black market"/"back street seller"" feeling...