PTS Update 41 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

i_azazei_i · February 1

An alternative to the change to BB idea i had in a separate thread but wanted to put in the feedback thread.

"rework" stalking blast bones while simultaneously fixing the no sticky dot situation in necro would be this

Stalking blastbones places "marked for death" on its main target. When marked for death target takes x damage per second for x seconds (20 preferably) while marked for death the target is considered a corpse and can have a corpse consuming ability used on it. Only 1 target can be marked for death at a time.

This creates 2 sticky dots for necro by allowing BB to be one and the tethers to be one. While simultaneously making it so BB doesn't need to constantly be recast.

While a 20% increase to dots for necro is very welcome. BB is not the skill to replace it for.

I think Skeletal arcanist or summoners armor is a much more sutible target for the sacrificial morph. And the addition of major sorcery and brutality would be a huge improvement, as necro is the only class without access to them without a mythic or guild skills.

Turtle_Bot · February 1

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Has anyone had a chance to try both of the new Sorc skills under pressure?

How are they adding up?

I'm assuming you mean the new encase and mines reworks?

I haven't tried them under true pressure conditions (that can really only be done on live or if enough people can be organized), but I have tried them in PvP under as many of the NPC guards as I could muster.

The encase heal morph seems pretty good.

On it's own it is slightly lacking in terms of raw healing (same as blessings, and to be expected due to being an AoE heal), but combined with the update to Conjured Ward and morphs, it is good enough.

I really like what they have done for this morph of encase, hopefully it makes it to live as is.

I am yet to test the damage morph of encase though, but others have mentioned issues with it.

The rework to the mines is interesting, I go more into detail about it in my thread.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/651334/suggestion-qol-improvements-for-sorcerer-that-are-simple-and-effective#latest

Daedric Mines:
- Not a bad change for this skill. It's going to have some nice group utility or give a sorc the potential to maybe refresh a shield once or twice in the heat of battle. The fact that it has the cooldown of 2 seconds per target and that the shields cannot be stacked keeps this balanced. Nice group utility, good for what it does. Not something that would fit my playstyle, but it is nice to see it there as an option for sorcerers to support their groups (or give sorcerer tanks a new unique tool to utilize).

For the rework to Conjured ward and morphs I am currently in 2 minds about it after doing more testing on things others have pointed out.

On the one hand the ability finally seems to be in a really good spot for sorcerers that don't stack max magicka like crazy, providing the equivalent of a 12-15k burst heal (via the combined values of actual heal done + shield depending on active buffs or not) which is on par with what every other class is/should be getting from their class burst heals.

On the other hand though, as has been pointed out (and from my own further testing), the heal (which is in a good spot with its 15% cap) combined with how big the ward size can get when pumping literally everything into mag (60k+ max mag) can be problematic because the heal remains a reasonable value, but the shield size increases to levels that are definitely too high.

My main concern is that, yes, the shield size (not the heal) on mag stacking builds needs its power reined in, but it needs to keep its current power level when used on a more balanced build that isn't just pumping everything into max magicka and knowing how things have been adjusted in the past, what we will end up getting will be a complete disaster by the time it hits live that will either be useless for everyone or still completely broken specifically for builds that stack everything into max mag.
I really hope ZOS can get this one right, as these changes overall have been good for magsorc (especially for PvP) and even good for stamsorc too for their defenses to not force them into procs and I'd hate to see another case of what happened to Crystal Weapon where the ability is made so OP for 1 specific niche build for 1 patch then nerfed into Oblivion alongside the rest of the class kit the following patch and left that way for far too long.

Tyrant_Tim · February 2

Glad to hear that you’re enjoying the two new changes, and the Conjured Ward one, @Turtle_Bot!

I’ve been keeping an eye out on the Sorc changes because I’ve been meaning to get a good PvP one set up finally, and all of my Sorc friends love the new changes, next patch might be the time to do so.

Turtle_Bot · February 2

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Glad to hear that you’re enjoying the two new changes, and the Conjured Ward one, @Turtle_Bot!

I’ve been keeping an eye out on the Sorc changes because I’ve been meaning to get a good PvP one set up finally, and all of my Sorc friends love the new changes, next patch might be the time to do so.

It has honestly been so much fun to finally be able to properly theory craft for sorcerer again and not just to try and tweak the meta proc stacking build or max mag stacking, but to actually try out different skill and set combinations.

I might even try to bring back a version of my old melee magsorc again, to see how that goes. It could be a lot of fun with these changes giving it the ability to actually fight in melee combat with the other classes without being forced to constantly run away all the time, real battle mage style.

Tyrant_Tim · February 2

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Glad to hear that you’re enjoying the two new changes, and the Conjured Ward one, @Turtle_Bot!

I’ve been keeping an eye out on the Sorc changes because I’ve been meaning to get a good PvP one set up finally, and all of my Sorc friends love the new changes, next patch might be the time to do so.

I might even try to bring back a version of my old melee magsorc again, to see how that goes. It could be a lot of fun with these changes giving it the ability to actually fight in melee combat with the other classes without being forced to constantly run away all the time, real battle mage style.

With Scribing coming Update 42, we might be able to make a spammable that costs Magicka using the first new Dual Wield Grimoire.

Here’s to hoping. 🍻

warm_blanket · February 2

The status effect changes currently benefit dual wield more than 2h.

Considering dual wield is already stronger than 2h, it would be nice to see an adjustment to 2h to bring it up to par.

A potential example would be to expand the scope of the 2h Follow Up passive by applying the 10% dmg buff after a full heavy attack to any melee direct damage skills while a 2h is equipped, instead of only 2h skills. This would mirror how the passive used to work before it was restricted to only 2h skills.

Ramonfg95 · February 2

Revise the Necromancer class in order to prioritize the summoning and interaction with deceased entities. Regarding the Blastbones ability, consider altering one of its morphs to summon a feeble skeleton warrior that engages in combat for a duration of 16 or 20 (whichever is appropriate) seconds before detonating upon demise. Alternatively, introduce a morph that hinders the target by either slowing them down or stunning them. These adjustments would greatly enhance the tangible essence of the Necromancer theme. Presently, the lack of thematic gameplay renders the necromancers ineffective within this game.

What every enthusiast of this class yearns for is the capability to exercise authority over summons, rely on them, and manipulate them as if they were puppets. Unfortunately, this class fails to fulfill these desires.

The notion that minions have a duration of 20 seconds may be deemed unsatisfactory, yet it is essential for gameplay purposes, as it allows for the creation of functional entities. This aspect adds an enjoyable element to the game mode, rendering it highly commendable. It is encouraged to exploit this mechanic, without hesitation, in order to establish a distinctive class. Furthermore, it is kindly requested that you actively engage in playing your own game and take into consideration the viewpoints of those who utilize the class for their amusement.

Jammy420 · February 2

Instead of listening to the community since necromancer was introduced, you decided to do something absolutely no one was asking for, and ruined magicka blastbones completely. Having to recast something every three seconds is NOT INTENSIVE or difficult, now we have even LESS options, we already had to stack magicka a bit to be useful, and now we have to put stats into stamina even MORE?

Completely ruined necro for me. Will delete my argonian necro now, unfortunately.

You really are not trying to get people back or make the current community happy, are you?

CameraBeardThePirate · February 2

I haven't seen anyone discuss this aspect of Grave Lord's Sacrifice yet, so I'm going to toss it here:

This skill will be disgustingly OP in organized group PvP. Necro already has one of the most powerful AoE DoT setups in live right now - you just rarely see it because it requires a group providing all of your necessary buffs, and is a rather boring playstyle since you use a grand total of 2 or 3 class skills.

Solo/small scale, Necro likely won't have the bar space to fully utilize it (yet another issue with Necro that wasn't addressed), but as soon as you have groupmates providing your necessary buffs, this skill gets out of hand rather quickly.

DoT Proc Necros that stand in the back of their group and melt people with things like BRP Destro, Maelstrom Destro, Vat Destro, Asylum Bow, Oblivions Foe, and other sets are going to run rampant.

Things like Destro ulti get completely out of hand.

"But Camera, wouldn't it be a good thing if Necro is meta again?"

Not this kind of Necro - it'll hardly play like a necro since most of your abilities will be non-class. It's a boring playstyle that strips Necro of its identity and flavor. And it will be prevalent.

master_vanargand · February 3

Vampire's passive skill "Undeath" is too powerful in PvP.

"Undeath" is too strong, so most of the PvP players will be Vampire stage 3.
Because of this, DKs that use fire damage deal +13% more damage than other classes.
This is extremely unbalanced and is one of the reasons ESO's PvP is now DK Online.

Therefore, need nerf the Vampire's passive skill "Undeath" is necessary.

For example, set the effect of "Undeath" to "Major Resolve".
Yes, I understand. You think that's too weak, right?
Therefore, "Health Recovery's penalty" in Vampire's passive skill "Feed" should also be removed.
Vampires are traditionally monsters with the ability to regenerate their bodies, so please stop the penalty of Health Recovery.

Just making this request will significantly improve your PvP gaming experience.
Vampire's passive skill "Undeath" nerf are essential for improving PvP game balance.

Chibicosmos · February 3

For blade I liked the light attack challenge. Gave the class its identity. I think strike a balance. So for the extra bonus 10% dmg, would be nice tied to the bow proc like the old berserk. You would get the buff for 5 seconds after each one. On top of the other 10%. So new players can enjoy a flat but then challenge themselves for higher. The cloak stuff doesn't look like it fits naturally in pve. Maybe make it only non player dmg for the additional. Surprise Attack needs a little more love as well.

Not a fan of the new leeching and Siphoning. Too dark dealy for me. Perhaps add the passive as a smaller amount then increase the payoff based on light attacks. Again a flat for newer but a way to get more. Get rid of health cost

As for arcanist, C-Flail needs a change. Can heal without hitting things. I forget if this was brought up. But having one morph give crux definitely skews in one direction. Change how to build crux or offer on both but just different types of dmg. And definitely make sure heal only applies on target contact. The shield reducing is nice. Bring it down a bit more as well. Fatecarver probably needs a little more decrease and other skills buffed. Make mag arcanist viable.

Also DK whip needs retool. People only use one anyway. Give me mag flame whip normal mag cost and Stam whip with bleed, physical or poison

Glad to see non pet sorcs being an option. I would keep watch on pet damage to see how it plays out and if it needs percentage adjustments on output

Saefti · February 3

Nightblades should get buffed for PvE instead of getting a huge nerf like it will happen with this update...

Maybe reconsider the changes about major berserk or try to buff the class in a way it wont effect PvP that much. NB PvE really needs some love.

Turtle_Bot · February 3

Easiest way to fix pet damage if that becomes too strong is to nerf daedric prey's bonus damage taken from pets. Take it back to giving only 20% bonus damage taken from pets.

If non-pet builds are still behind, then buff the other non-pet aspects of the class with things like:

- lightning splash/morphs - give it a high base chance to proc concussed with each tick (make it 15% base chance like they did for debilitate).
- damage morph of encase - have it proc overcharged on enemies it hits (gives a small bit of damage instantly on cast with the status, then delayed damage when the effect ends).
- rune prison/morphs - change rune cage into a targeted sticky DoT morph with its attempted stun on the second tick (this keeps the current ~2 second delay, but now it does something against immune targets), and change defensive rune into something else (maybe a small AoE DoT that reduces damage taken from non-player enemies while active with its duration standardized?).

WrathOfInnos · February 3

I love the idea of buffing non-pet Sorc. However the 10% Magicka/Stamina only results in about 3% DPS gain, while running a single passive Twilight Tormentor is easily over 6% DPS. Add in the Familiar and Atronach and it’s clear that pet Sorc is still far ahead.

I also love the idea of buffing Lightning Splash. Unfortunately the damage did not improve, so it still cannot justify a bar slot in most cases. It will see some use on AoE encounters if the Sorc has bar space, but that was already the case. The Liquid Lightning morph in particular should be better against bosses, and reward keeping the enemy within a small circle for a long time. Flood can remain the more bursty (this needs improvement) and larger area morph for trash and adds.

TDVM · February 3

The abilities of the necromancer Blighted Blastbones should be improved, and at least increase damage by 40% so that this ability would be at least somehow useful in both pve and pvp. Grave Lord's Sacrifice will most likely be used in pve, but in pvp with the release of this patch, the necromancer will be even deader than now simply because he will have nothing to deal damage with in pvp. Because of the fact that you reworked Stalking Blastbones, you took away the burst and the only damage that the necromancer had

Leia98 · February 3

Is it out of forum rules to say anything about templar here since you changed literally nothing about the class? @ZOS_GinaBruno just asking

Shizzer · February 3

Please do something with NB surprise attack morph of veild strike to make it more viable in stamblade PVE. Also would like to see some staves buffs because at this point they fall way to far behind other weapons

MudcrabAttack · February 3

Shizzer wrote: »

Please do something with NB surprise attack morph of veild strike to make it more viable in stamblade PVE. Also would like to see some staves buffs because at this point they fall way to far behind other weapons

Yeah it seems like even bows have a higher damage spammable. I tried using surprise attacks every 3+ skill cooldowns between lethal arrow and assassins will, since I was already used to doing that every 10 seconds with concealed weapon. Even 100%crit surprise attacks dealt less on average than each lethal arrow cast, not even counting lethal arrow’s total poison damage per cast coming out ahead of sundered. Just slotting a random fighters guild skill for the passive buff in place of using surprise attack got me a better parse.

LordDraw · February 3

I can't understand why there's literally no steps made to buff other classes than Arcanists? Templars, night blades, wardens and sorcerers could get buff but all feedback provided for months is like a silence.
I don't see any sense of nerfing Fatecarver and Pragmatic Fatecarver morph with a PvP pretext once again as it was with Gibbering Shelter.
U41 nerf (and previous) should be applied ONLY in PvP zones while on PvE it should remained as it was from U38. If you really want to nerf Pragmatic Fatecarver, remove interrupt immunity. It's useless from the beginning in PvE so it won't impact in any way.
Both Barrier and Magma Shell are still useless to the group on Yaseyla HM if I'm constantly spamming Combat Prayer and losing barrier and all of my 27k health and dying anyway on Shrapnel even all HoTs are on the ground. After first nerfs I have to roll dodge last second of Shrapnel, because block does not help me anymore.

In my prog group there are 6 DD Arcanists and we were struggling to defeat Ansuul on HM for 7 months because even they had shield from Fatecarver and healing and shields from tanks/healers. After this nerf, we won't be able even to attempt this again because no dead will be difficult. And I don't see any nerfs on Sanity's Edge bosses in U41 for balance. I also saw in esologs that there's a very small number of new Mindmenders patch by patch (based only on public logs, so private logs are not counted towards new MM clear).

Apart of fact that many players are saying that SE is easier than RG or DSR so in that case our group will probably disband or make a 3 months break until scribing will be on Live servers with hope that other classes.

JerBearESO · February 3

Shizzer wrote: »

Please do something with NB surprise attack morph of veild strike to make it more viable in stamblade PVE. Also would like to see some staves buffs because at this point they fall way to far behind other weapons

Didn't it just get more damage and a 100 wep damage buff from the status effect change for sundered?

Tro00 · February 3

Good evening,

Long time player, first time posting. Mainly a HM endgame PvE'r with trifecta aspirations. I play all classes, but mainly focus on warden theory crafting and parsing. I like the changes to the status effects because they bring more versatility, and whether it was intended or not, it really helped my sustain on the PTS.

That said, if possible, I would like ZOS to reconsider the nerf to glacial presence, because as it stands, Warden dps is at least 10% dps behind the other classes. I understand not nerfing it would've cause the opposite effect, but perhaps somewhere in between lies the sweet spot. Currently no good group brings wardens to endgame HM's or trifectas other than as a healer. They will bring a necro for EC, a DK for Zen/kosh/stagger/igneous weapons, but no one wants a dps warden.

I've had to play arcanist because they do better single target, and their spammable is a giant AoE, so no change is required (except gear if you want to maximize) for AoE heavy fights. I understand the new class should be more powerful in order to keep interest in the game increase sales, but please reconsider bringing warden dps up by at least 10% so we can remain competitive.

Attached is the second best parse I was able to do after parsing on the PTS for over 20 hrs, and playing the game for over three years. I know 120k is more than enough to clear all content. My argument is that wardens right now, even played almost flawlessly, are 10-15% behind the average player on arcanist/DK/templar, etc. Seen parses of 130-140k on the other classes.

If you don't want to adjust glacial presence, I have other ideas that perhaps you could consider:

1. Making beetles a targeted skill like bird. So many situations were chalks will miss because they are not a targeted skill (for example on Taleria beetles don't hit).
2. Remove the "off balance" requirement for 400 spell power buff of magicka morphed bird so wardens can use it as a spammable instead of icy touch. Right now we are forced to use the stamina version.
3. Make bear ultimate available to stay summoned when slotted in only one bar, having to double bar it prevents us from having a second ultimate and causes us to lose at least 3% spell power due to being unable to front bar fighter's guild ulti.
4. Increase Piercing cold to 10%, which becomes 20% when wielding an ice staff.
5. Change Icy Aura to increase Ice damage Wardens do by 15%.

BlackHammer225 · February 3

Hi, I'm happy with the changes you guys are making for each class but not as a bias I feel like Templar was left out in the patch.

1. I'm looking to see more improvements in allowing the ability Backlash to deal the intended damage it should do in PvP. The current threshold that's in place is too high to reach the 200% damage increase on the ability please reduce it again so the ability doesn't feel weak.

2. Also, the Sunnder status effect is now better than the Power of Light ability the use of (POTL) will quickly have less use because it applies minor breach but you don't get the 100 weapon and spell damage increase so players will opt-out for Purifying Light over POTL.

Tro00 · February 3

Thank you.

Akasha_Mei · February 4

why touch the nightblades? What ppl call NB in PvP are players that use invisible potion. What, in fact is used too much.
Stealth should be NB priority, it's a main skill of the class.

James-Wayne · February 4

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

I just in general wish you guys would have more respect for people's playstyles and consider that this is a 10 year old game and many have found ways to "play as you want" for years at this point. Nerfing something players love and completely deleting it from the game are on an entirely different scale and frankly not consistent with the game's supposed design philosophy. It's literally a 180 from play how you want, it's "no, you can't play that way anymore."

Case and point Tormentor:

Is this overperforming? No. You give up an entire 5pc support set to do something that could be done without it. Support sets generate far more group damage than individual sets, so it's worse than giving up any other kind of set. This is why literally no high end group runs this set.

Does this improve the game for anyone? No. Templar lost their one good control option. An accessibility option is gone. A good set for dungeon finder pugs that's that are a little less experienced and coordinated is gone, you lost some tanks that would be willing to queue, me included.

If you can't answer yes to at least one of the above, then please please please just leave it alone. It just leaves me with this feeling of "what's next" that just makes me not want to load up the game. My Warden ice tank has decent control, will that get removed too? Maybe ice will be slippery and give major expedition next patch instead of snares, who knows.

This has been a general trend through out the game's history that has escalated over the last few years. Overall balance has vastly improved since the early days. I just think at this point it's time to stop, leave playstyles alone, work on tweaking outliers. Make the game better and stop fixing what isn't broken.

I totally agree with this. Completely deleting unique playstyles has to stop. I know they want to bring in new playstyles come chapter launch with Scribing and I'm ok with this but don't remove them till the Chapter is out.

@ZOS_RichLambert
To a fellow Templar why put us Templars in a situation where our play style is removed for 3-4 months. Its not like we can all afford to rebuild to have to rebuild again once the Chapter comes out, its too expensive to be doing that all the time. Tormentor has been like this for 10 years (yes even during closed beta), I've been using it on my Templar for nearly 10 years, why the importance to change in this patch? Please consider the Tormentor nerf on launch of the chapter instead (assuming Templars have some kind of crowd control in Scribing of course).

Tyrant_Tim · February 4

Right, Templar tanking is bad enough, they really didn’t need to target one of the only unique interactions it had.

Having tanked for a decade, I can’t recall a single time where someone has requested I run Tormentor, no trials, arenas, dungeons, or overland… certainly not PvP.

Tormentor tanking was just a fun lazy way to cruise through dungeons and I don’t believe targeting a playstyle that isn’t sought out was a great move considering that it’s hard enough to find tanks to begin with.

w002exp · February 4

We might not get an answer on this but I would not be surprised if the change to tormentor had nothing to do with the AOE taunt but a rework of the taunting mechanics in the game itself.

Taunt has been getting a lot of tweaks, especially in regards to the behavior around over taunting, for several patches now. There were many more taunt related tweaks in U41 including inner fire and inner beast.

While we probably won't know for certain I think the player base may need to be prepared that this has nothing to do with tormentor and more to do with adjustments to the overall behavior of taunt on a macro level--possibly to prepare for scribing which is slated to contain new behaviors for taunt. It's possible many of these mechanics did not play well with some of the mechanics scribing will institute and they needed changed to support the new system.

Just a conjecture.... But one people should consider.

Light100 · February 4

So far I like the changes to sorcerer skills, but they are too small and not enough for non pet dd. I have a suggestion to change one skill "Surge" to buff non pet gameplay, while adding more unique game feature. So right now skill looks like this:

Critical Surge: Invoke Meridia's name to gain Major Brutality and Sorcery, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 20% for 33 seconds. While active, dealing Critical Damage heals you for 3300 Health. This effect can occur once every 1 second.

It apply Major Brutality and Sorcery only on activation, while similar skill from arcanist (Tome-Bearer's Inspiration) add this buffs simply by being slotted, so I think it would be just to make it apply buff while slotted.
And make it really unique and add some dps potential especially for non pet build you could add Concussion that will apply on each critical damage dealt. This will work great for non pet builds, since without pets there are many skill slots available that allow to slot more DoTs for more chances to deal damage. And with pets there would less skill slots for dots and pets themselves do not trigger proc skills and sets. Perhaps limit this effect to once per 0.1 sec as to not trigger it excessively from AoE skills.
As for heal, if adding limit to Concussion, then it could be adjusted to be similar, so that both effect activate simultaneously, of course with reduced instant heal.
So with this changes it would look like this:

Critical Surge: Invoke Meridia's name to enhance you attacks. While active, dealing Critical Damage heals you for 1000 Health and apply Concussion status effect to the target. This effects can occur once every 0.1 second. While slotted on either ability bar, gain Major Brutality and Major Sorcery, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 20%.

Dojohoda · February 4

Please stop playing hot potato with the nightblade class damage buff and place it back into the passives where it used to be. Make it activate from attacking from flank and no sneak/invis requirement please.

francesinhalover · February 4

Boneyard should get a 20 sec duration morph.

Since the new blastbones rework makes one of the morphs 20 secs. it would help a lot rotations.