PTS Update 41 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

Jestir

For necro changes

-While I do like the idea behind the blastbone changes I also think it completely misses the mark. First it's killing the better blastbones morph, second there are tons of awful/under performing skills in the necros kit that would be far better to be killed for it, and third the buff doesn't apply to the scythe skill. There is also the issue with not having enough corpses as others have pointed out, necros generally need 3 every 20s and with this change they only have 2, maybe making boneyard last 20s so it only needs 1 corpse in that time frame is the simplest fix?

-Still no access to major buffs in kit and the lack of in class sticky dots. I think a better change that would also simplify the necros kit would to make the stam blastbones have a smaller initial burst and then apply a standard 10 or 20 second sticky dot. While the skeleton mage/archer are great candidates for major brutality+sorcery as many others have said in the past but once again with how many under performing skills necro has there are plenty of choices.

-Skulls is still such an awkward spammable, it needs that awkward queuing issue fixed and the something needs to be done about it taking forever to reach its target, or just make scythe a better spammable

Turtle_Bot

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for any combat or class change. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance and changes.

I have made a thread giving feedback in regards to the Sorcerer changes, pointing out some of the pain points that were missed with the changes as well as putting forward some suggestions for future changes or some small things that could be added this PTS cycle.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/651334/suggestion-qol-improvements-for-sorcerer-that-are-simple-and-effective#latest

To summarize the linked thread, the changes are overall a positive step in the right direction, just a few small adjustments and additional changes are needed and some ideas have been put forward for future things to try out.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert It would be great if we could get some responses in that thread in regards to the changes and on the remaining pain points being raised.

Jusey1

Bleakz wrote: »

For necro changes

-maybe making boneyard last 20s so it only needs 1 corpse in that time frame is the simplest fix?

Or just don't gut blastbones to begin with? It's that simple. We shouldn't suggest more awful changes on top of an awful change that is ruining the class but rather suggest a better alternative altogether so that we don't get another awful change in the game.

MashmalloMan

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Additional: with the changes to Status Effects it is LONG PAST time that Elemental Susceptibility gets a Cost assigned and a Duration reduction. The skill is extremely overpowered.

Yes. 30s for 0 cost AND Major Breach.

What exactly does a class without a purge do about this? We're forced to have no armor buff (Breach), reduced damage (Maim), increased damage taken (Vulnerability), all the while taking dot damage (Burning).... for 30 full seconds.

No one likes this skill, no one likes being forced to use it, no one likes facing someone with a Vat Destro staff. Please do something about this.

Jestir

Jusey1 wrote: »

Bleakz wrote: »

For necro changes

-maybe making boneyard last 20s so it only needs 1 corpse in that time frame is the simplest fix?

Or just don't gut blastbones to begin with? It's that simple. We shouldn't suggest more awful changes on top of an awful change that is ruining the class but rather suggest a better alternative altogether so that we don't get another awful change in the game.

Necro absolutely needs a complete rework and while I'm very happy they seen intent to keep one of the morphs the same to allow the same way of playing I also am looking forward to the class potentially getting dragged out of the gutter for the first time in years and if a new play style is how that's going to happen then I am all for it

gariondavey

Please revert jabs

MudcrabAttack

PVE nightblade needs help with AOE damage. Or if they’re supposed to be one of the single target classes, making all the latest trials about AOE damage and taking away the 10% damage buff this patch isn’t helping much with that either.

The leeching/siphoning change seems like it was meant to help soften the blow, but speaking for myself it hasn’t been a part of my Stamblade PVE build in several years. More easy-to-get resource regeneration doesn’t cut it for me

I stopped using Stamina regen food when we got dark shade and twisting path hybridized - long before full-blown hybridization happened, the ability to switch stamina costing skills over to magicka alleviated the need for more regen.

I never bothered slotting incapacitating strike for several years, the least tempting part of it was the reave. I took my skill points out of the executioner passive the moment coral riptide was released a couple years ago (stamina was rapidly inflating in trash fights so I took the skill points out of it).

These suggestions look far more appealing:

master_vanargand wrote: »

I'm dissatisfied with the PvE DPS Nightblade.
Since "Major Berserk (damage +10%)" from "Concealed Weapon" has been removed in PTS, PvE Nightblade DPS needs a buff.

Game creators don't have to do anything difficult.

For example, if you reduce the ultimate cost of Nightblade's ultimate skill "Death Stroke" from 70 to 60 and increase the duration from 8 seconds to 12 seconds, this will result in a +5% dps increase.
For example, increasing Nightblade's passive skill "Dark Veil" from 2 seconds to 5 seconds will improve DPS and make skill rotation easier.
For example, increasing the "Pressure Points" of Nightblade's passive skill from 438 (Critical ratings +2%) to 657 (Critical ratings +3%) will improve dps.

DPS can be improved by simply changing Nightblade's skill numbers. Very easy, right?

Also for PvE Nightblade Tank and Healer, need the duration of "Minor Vulnerability" on "Lotus Fan" should be increased from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.
And for PvP Nightblade, need remove the useless "Empower" from "Ambush" and add "Stun". (the old ESO "Ambush")
Also for PvE Nightblade Tank, need give "Minor Courage" of "Power Extraction" to 11 people in the group and make it last 15 seconds.

These requests are the easiest and simplest way for game creators to improve their gameplay experience.
Just change the numbers. That alone will change for the better.
PvE DPS Nightblade needs love.

I might also add a passive that causes more disease status damage procs

Hottytotz

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

From both a PVP and PVE perspective, I would suggest swapping the Health and Max Stat bonuses on the new expert summoner passive. I know some people will disagree here, its definitely dependent on your specific sorc playstyle, but I think in general, swapping them will provide the best value for Sorcerer in the most scenarios.

Secondly, the Heal on Hardened ward needs to be a stronger HOT over the time you're shielded.

Third, the changes to buff Nightblade's HOT/resource return skill is extremely insulting considering the state of Dark Deal and Crit Surge. At MINIMUM, Dark Deal/Conversion needs the cast time removed, this is basically non-negotiable at this point. And to bring it up to parity, if you continue to refuse to give Sorc an in-class crit buff Surge needs to be reworked to proc off simply dealing damage instead of requiring crits.

Another suggestion is to take inspiration from the Arcanist pragmatic fatecarver which can't be interrupted (in theory) while the shield is up, instead of putting a heal on Hardened Ward, if you won't fix Dark Deal/Conversion like suggested instead make it so your class abilities can't be interrupted while Hardened Ward is active.

Finally, Haunting Curse needs Major Breach and a radius increase (and to apply that breach in an AOE on explosion). If you compare it to skills like Scorch it is laughable.

Its not that people will disagree with you its that you completely missed the point... The whole point of changing the master summoner passive is to give NON-PET sorc some more damage. Thats it. That's literally it. Giving more hp to a non-pet sorc does absolutely nothing to bring non-pet sorc damage up... Please read the actual reason for the change instead of assuming some sort of min max scenario that this buff was just thrown together for in your eyes.

ADarklore

Dubhliam wrote: »

Arcanist Flail.

Not a word about Flail.

Working as intended...

Yep. They said "Now that the Arcanist has been out for over half of a year, we’re utilizing a lot of the data we’re seeing to make cautious adjustments to the class." Which means, they made adjustments where they felt the class was over-performing.

Twohothardware

MashmalloMan wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Additional: with the changes to Status Effects it is LONG PAST time that Elemental Susceptibility gets a Cost assigned and a Duration reduction. The skill is extremely overpowered.

Yes. 30s for 0 cost AND Major Breach.

What exactly does a class without a purge do about this? We're forced to have no armor buff (Breach), reduced damage (Maim), increased damage taken (Vulnerability), all the while taking dot damage (Burning).... for 30 full seconds.

No one likes this skill, no one likes being forced to use it, no one likes facing someone with a Vat Destro staff. Please do something about this.

This. Masters Dual Wield was just one of the unbalanced weapons in the current Meta and Vate Destro staff is the other one that usually gets paired with it. Elemental Susceptibility is part of every build for both Stamina and Magicka because it provides a 0 cost source of Major Breach and deals among the highest proc set damage when combined with Vate Destro. And now that status effects were buffed there's no way you can leave Elemental Susceptibility costing nothing to repeatedly re-cast on a player.

SandandStars

but it shall be so

more constant vatesh staffs firing

free damage for less buttons, less skill

it makes you wonder

Faint_One

damage reduction of Arcan Beam is effective bug too direct，the overpower is come from it's dealing AOE damage with full single target numbers
consider what you’ve done on Temp jabs and silver shards，or what about they don't have AOE damage reduction.

Sorc feel nice on these changes，but some parts also wired，if I want to play without pets，the new passive force me to Not drop Atronach or I’ll lose my resource boost.

mine which gives shield is make sense，but in real content，delay to shield up and need to be collect from one’s behind is not that much good

I know it not only made for PVE，but I more hope to change it to another morph which can place on a location by instant trigger

lightning flood is quite Huge，but the dot is weak，never mind，the cast animation is much terrible.

Good change on NB concealed weapon，it leave a buff space for some overall increase.

And the result for Necro change is worth celebrating，you try to turn them from bad to unqualified got success.

nb_rich

Never read other responses yet but I think nightblade needs more fixes in my opinion especially to favor pve.

In my opinion one of the biggest thing that nightblades lack is aoe skills. Feels like everything is single target and can hit the high dps results on other classes easier while also hitting multiple targets. I think skills like swallow soul should be changed to hit multiple targets. Of course there are aoe skills to be used but who really has time to change there whole set up between every wave of enemies and boss.

With it being so single target heavy it makes it hard to use in the more recent trials since bosses arent just stationary any more for as long as they used to and more enemies spawn during boss fights. On PlayStation most vet trial groups have one nightblade max or none at all. Its also frustrating when I have to lock on to a target with my nightblade or be aiming right on it to use my spammable but on classes like my arcanist and templar can spam the spammables whenever and dont have to be locked on to a target.

Because I only play pve it has been frustrating my nightblade has been collecting dust. Its not as fun compared my arcanist or templar.

Arcanasx

-Stinging Slashes should be given the same level of weapon damage scaling to match the original damage threshold similar to what they made for all the other weapon damage scaling sets; around 6600 weapon damage. Given that the reasoning for the change is supposedly because it "allows tanks to do damage", this would be a more reasonable change. Any player that is able to consistently self-buff their own weapon damage to reach 6600 weapon damage while maintaining that for almost a 100% uptime is not a tank. No one would have considered 6600 weapon damage self buffed to be something that a tank would have had back during the Blackwood update when they first started to introduce scaling for damage sets.

-Elemental Susceptibility is going to need some adjustments. Not only is this one of the most overloaded skills currently being used by the majority of PvP builds, both melee and ranged, and doesn't require any set to wear that limits what else you can put on, is receiving an indirect buff through the status effect changes and the charged weapon trait nerf. To really see just how much this ability overperforms, simply compare it to either puncture or ransack from SnB. This ability is by far the biggest common denominator for the status effect spam currently taking place, while also providing major breach, at a free cost, from a distance. It can also be combined with a defensive ice staff as if it wasn't already universally strong enough; basically being used on nearly any kind of build that you can make, on almost every class you can play, because its simply that good.

-Undeath. Seriously, this needs to be toned down. Undeath, also often paired with an ice staff on the back bar with elemental susceptibility, is being used by the vast majority of PvP builds at this point. It is so strong, that you can often invest into mostly damage for your sets and yet you can still be "tanky" because of how this passive essentially acts as a nearly free extra 5pc pariah set. Pure damage sets are often scapegoated as the primary cause for "tanks with damage", yet everyone has access to this insanely overloaded passive regardless of what sets they're wearing, that can be used with almost every build, and especially with builds using pure damage sets. Yet those damage focused builds often have comfortable survivability because of how defensively overpowered this passive is.

MudcrabAttack

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

PVE nightblade needs help with AOE damage.
I might also add a passive that causes more disease status damage procs

Nevermind this, I changed my mind after checking the PTS.

Someone mentioned diseased might be a new BIS status effect in aoe fighting, but its not that great. I tried out a charged lightning staff with power extraction spam on 6 precursor dummies. The AOE portion of diseased procced every 4 seconds as expected, but the AOE damage is the tiny 1.8% fraction of just spamming 1 skill, and it probably drops a lot from there when you add in other skills.

A single Charged dual wield weapon equipped with a disease enchant has ~ 50% chance to apply, so expect an even smaller fraction of that 1.8% AOE buff, at that point just use nirn main hand / precise offhand

Sundered gives 100 weapon damage, which isn't a ton but would buff everything, and reapplies faster.

Foxtrot39

Disapointed NB changes only touch skills with plenty of usage or were just fine

Still waitign for a rework of the useless shadow ult we have thats outdated and barely usefull since 4 years

Kalle_Demos

'we’re seeing to make cautious adjustments to the class. Our goals here are to slightly peel back the ease of damage production the class has, in hopes to incentivize slightly more complex rotations to regain the damage'

I greatly appreciate the even hand used in addressing the Arcanist. 'Cautious adjustments', is the change we need to see applied to Class balance. I remember the hammer throws aimed at the Necromancer and would argue that the ubernerf back then lead to the problems we're seeing today.

The adjustments to the Necromancer on the other hand seem to cause more problems than they solve without fully addressing the issues the change seeks to remedy. I encourage the team to take another look at the state of the Necromancer and consider any adjustments with the same care that was shown to the Arcanist and other Classes this patch.

i11ionward

Due to the increased status effects, the Elemental Susceptibility skill requires have a cost.

WhiteGirlLatte

i it

Coopersnow

Just swap the Blastbones morph you wish to change. Nobody ever uses the stamina morph cause its just worse in every scenario. If you have to make the new morph cost magicka for some fantasy reason. Just make both cost magicka it really is not that hard.
Everyone uses the mag morph so why not change the version nobody ever uses instead of chaning the main skill everyone always uses.

ssewallb14_ESO

I just in general wish you guys would have more respect for people's playstyles and consider that this is a 10 year old game and many have found ways to "play as you want" for years at this point. Nerfing something players love and completely deleting it from the game are on an entirely different scale and frankly not consistent with the game's supposed design philosophy. It's literally a 180 from play how you want, it's "no, you can't play that way anymore."

Case and point Tormentor:

Is this overperforming? No. You give up an entire 5pc support set to do something that could be done without it. Support sets generate far more group damage than individual sets, so it's worse than giving up any other kind of set. This is why literally no high end group runs this set.

Does this improve the game for anyone? No. Templar lost their one good control option. An accessibility option is gone. A good set for dungeon finder pugs that's that are a little less experienced and coordinated is gone, you lost some tanks that would be willing to queue, me included.

If you can't answer yes to at least one of the above, then please please please just leave it alone. It just leaves me with this feeling of "what's next" that just makes me not want to load up the game. My Warden ice tank has decent control, will that get removed too? Maybe ice will be slippery and give major expedition next patch instead of snares, who knows.

This has been a general trend through out the game's history that has escalated over the last few years. Overall balance has vastly improved since the early days. I just think at this point it's time to stop, leave playstyles alone, work on tweaking outliers. Make the game better and stop fixing what isn't broken.

AvidNecro

@ZOS_GinaBruno whilst I enjoy seeing work done to the necromancer class, I would like to add some overlooked areas of the class as a whole. The change to blast bones and its new morph, to me isn't enough in respects to making it viable in PvP, specifically magic based, since blast bones was its ONLY burst potential skill. in PVE absolutely, especially with one bar builds. Now I know people will say "but they decreased blighted blast bones to keep that specific playstyle", sure! absolutely, very happy with that. But, if that's what is supposed to be the PVP side of necromancer then more changes need to happen. Changing Animate blast bones to all blighted is good, but reducing the cost dramatically would be a big improvement. Also while reducing the cost you could eliminate the resurrections part for that morph and keep it on the other morph making that the PvE choice and keeping animate blast bones the PvP version.

Also, why not add major sorcery/ brutality to the skeletal mage/arcanist/archer? and major prophecy/ savagery to the spirit mender? The class needs more buffs instead of playing the "buff simulation" rotation just for 3 secs of combat before having to rebuff. Please continue to focus on reworking the class. I LOVE the already much needed attention we received with U41 PTS!!!!

Necrotech_Master

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

PVE nightblade needs help with AOE damage.
I might also add a passive that causes more disease status damage procs

Nevermind this, I changed my mind after checking the PTS.

Someone mentioned diseased might be a new BIS status effect in aoe fighting, but its not that great. I tried out a charged lightning staff with power extraction spam on 6 precursor dummies. The AOE portion of diseased procced every 4 seconds as expected, but the AOE damage is the tiny 1.8% fraction of just spamming 1 skill, and it probably drops a lot from there when you add in other skills.

A single Charged dual wield weapon equipped with a disease enchant has ~ 50% chance to apply, so expect an even smaller fraction of that 1.8% AOE buff, at that point just use nirn main hand / precise offhand

Sundered gives 100 weapon damage, which isn't a ton but would buff everything, and reapplies faster.

i think the change to diseased will be welcome in 2 areas:

infinite archive (focused efforts, maybe with serpents disdain) and pvp (because the diseased aoe also applies minor defile too)

it might get interesting too running serpents disdain in pvp with that for nearly 20 sec of the aoe dot if they dont have a purge

Tessitura

The change to necromancer's blastbones is maybe the worst possible way to achieve your objective here with down playing the rotation intricacies. The problem people had was never generating corpses, it was spending them. Your solution forces necro into melee and kills more of it's class fantasy.

The change you need isn't to the corpse generation, it's to the spending. Ground placement and hard targeted corpse spenders was always a bad idea and bad combo. Changing graveyard and siphon was where your energy needed to be spent. If those were just button presses that interacted with a nearby corpse then the complications would be solved. The best way to do this and make the necromancer actually fill like necromancer is to make so at least one of those spawns undead disposable minions that chase your target and apply a dot. Maybe they have a miasma cloud around them that harms and poisons in a aoe so that way it's still a aoe ability but a very necromancer one. No longer need to take time to target corpse, just press the button gain the effects.

This was a bad call for the class, the fantasy, the rotation, and the gameplay style. Please reconsider, or at least consider retooling the kit to better fit the new ability. Don't kill magcro, or the class fantasy.

Tyrant_Tim

Now, I don’t want to be negative, but would it have hurt to use the word Templar once Week 1?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/651251/pts-patch-notes-v9-3-0#latest

Believe it or not, Templar is still a class, and one with it’s own variety of problems. I would love a rework to Templar tanking, as it’s the stuff of comedy as of late.

Foxtrot39

You mean praising the sun doesn't work anymore?

Tyrant_Tim

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

You mean praising the sun doesn't work anymore?

Sun hasn’t shined in years. ☔️

That’s a lie, we are getting Spellcrafting Scribing. Perhaps then we can make Templar tanking competitive by simply using all non-Templar skills.

Grandsheba

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8037360#Comment_8037360

Here are some better alternatives.
Necrotic Potency

Target: Area
Duration: 4 seconds

Skill description
Embrace the power of collected souls to bolster your dark arts. For each soul absorbed, increase your Weapon and Spell Damage by 50. Sapping the lingering life from fresh corpses, grants you 6 Ultimate while healing 682 Health every 1 second for 4 seconds per additional corpse.


This ability scales off your Max Health. While slotted, your damage taken is reduced by 3%.

Change Notes:
Embrace the power of collected souls to bolster your dark arts. For each soul absorbed, increase your Weapon and Spell Damage by 50. The duration of this buff stacks dynamically with each additional soul collected, extending its remaining time to empower your necromantic abilities.

The revamped Necrotic Potency skill introduces a dynamic and engaging mechanic that aligns with the thematic essence of the Necromancer class. By harnessing the power of collected souls, the Necromancer gains a tangible boost to their damage potential, promoting strategic and immersive gameplay.

This change addresses the need for the Necromancer class to have a damage-buffing skill, bringing it up to par with other classes in the game. The dynamic stacking of the buff's duration encourages players to actively collect souls, fostering a sense of mastery and rewarding skilled play. Additionally, the increase in Weapon and Spell Damage per collected soul provides a meaningful and impactful boost to the Necromancer's abilities, enhancing their role in combat scenarios.

Overall, the revised Necrotic Potency skill not only enriches the gameplay experience for Necromancer players but also contributes to a more balanced and engaging class dynamic within the game.

Stalking legion (Stalking Blastbones)

Target: Enemy
Range: 28m
Cost: 2700

Skill description: Summon a flaming skeleton from the ground. After 2.5 seconds, the skeleton runs after the target and explodes when it gets close to them, dealing 1600 Flame Damage to all enemies nearby. Every second the skeleton spends chasing its target increases the damage of the explosion by 10%, up to a maximum of 50% more damage. Up to 3 corpses can be active at a time with only 1.5 seconds cooldown between each skeleton summoning. Creates a corpse on death.

Change Notes:
The reworked skill "Stalking Legion" has undergone significant changes that impact its functionality and potential in combat. Here's a brief explanation of why this change is beneficial and needed:

Improved balance: The reduction in the initial damage dealt by the exploding skeleton from 3600 to 1600 Flame Damage, coupled with the cap on the maximum damage increase, helps to balance the skill's potential burst damage.

Enhanced versatility: Allowing up to three corpses to be active at a time and reducing the cooldown between skeleton summonings to 1.5 seconds significantly enhances the skill's versatility, enabling more strategic and frequent deployment in combat situations.

Strategic depth: With the ability to have multiple explosive skeletons active and in play, players can now employ more strategic and tactical approaches to engagements, adding depth to the skill's gameplay mechanics.

Overall, these changes to "Stalking Legion" aim to promote a more balanced and versatile use of the skill while adding a layer of strategic depth to the Necromancer's toolkit thematically.

Blighted Blastbones

Target: Enemy
Range: 28m
Radius: 6m
Duration: 4 second
Cost: 2295

Skill description
Summon a decaying skeleton from the ground after 2.5 seconds. The skeleton runs after the target and explodes when it gets close to them, dealing 3600 Disease Damage to all enemies nearby and applying Major Defile to them for 4 seconds, reducing their healing received and Health Recovery by 16%.

Creates a corpse on death, causing a putrid area of decay in a 6-meter radius. Enemies within the area suffer from a potent Disease affliction, taking 1500 Disease damage over 4 seconds. Only 2 blighted corpes may persist at at time.

Change Notes:
This reworked ability offers the Necromancer a strategic and thematic AoE damage option, leveraging the theme of decay and disease that is central to the class. By incorporating damage over time effects, the skill aligns with the Necromancer's identity and provides a valuable addition to their arsenal. The rework also addresses the need for more diverse damage over time abilities within the Necromancer's skill set, enhancing gameplay options and synergies for players who prefer this playstyle.

This reworked Blighted Blastbones skill not only adds thematic depth to the Necromancer class but also introduces a valuable AoE damage-over-time option, aligning with the class's identity and providing players with a more diverse and strategic skill set. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert

Tyrant_Tim

Has anyone had a chance to try both of the new Sorc skills under pressure?

How are they adding up?

Tyrant_Tim

@Turtle_Bot & @StaticWave