Why don't I see any Templars using Solar Flare?

ArchMikem · January 26

Solar Flare -> Dark Flare. It's supposed to be a MagPlar's DPS ability, yet I never see it used at all. I realize Templars are Synonymous with Jabs, but is Flare REALLY that disliked/Ignored?

Galeriano · January 26

It's just a weak ability especially PvE wise. Five seconds of empower as secondary effect is propably the worst thing that can be added to a cast time ability, major defile is only good PvP wise but ability can be dodged or reflected. it's still used by some templars in nuke combos of dark flare+meteor+javelin+beam but that's pretty much it.

DPS wise this ability is not tragic but it's simply doesn't have much going on for it other than dealing single target dmg. Jabs deal similar single target dmg plus some AoE and provide You with nice passive effects.

Billium813 · January 26

Both do damage, however Solar Barrage is AOE and Dark Flare is Single Target.
Both provide the Sunsphere buff, increasing your Templar damage skills, however Solar Barrage is for 20 seconds and Dark Flare is 5 seconds.
Both provide the Empower buff, increasing HA damage, however Solar Barrage is for 20 seconds and Dark Flare is 5 seconds.

The only big difference is Dark Flare debuffs the enemy with Major Defile for 4 seconds. It's obvious that Dark Flare is designed for PvP with its shorter durations, Defile debuff, and single target damage.

The big issue is that Defile as a debuff is pretty inconsequential, and at 4 seconds duration, the impact just isn't enough to matter. Also, granting Empower in PvP is entirely pointless now that Empower has been changed to only damage to non-players.

Dark Flare has just been entirely forgotten and it seems clear that ZOS doesn't care to fix it since these issues have been there for years and have only gotten worse as patch changes are deepening the issues. Templar in general has a HUGE issue with morphs AND passives. There are several morphs that have been abandoned (Blazing Shield, Unstable Core, Dark Flare, Radiant Oppression) and several Passives that are 2014 design (Master Ritualist, Light Weaver, Illuminate).

Templar is like a poorly done cover of a popular song from 10 years ago. The beat is all wrong, the style is mixed, and the spirit of the original is totally lost.

merpins · January 26

Lol. Dark flare blows, and has blown for over 5 years. The other morph, Barrage, is a consistent aoe that follows you, has a long duration, and boosts your class skills by 5%. Infinitely better in every application. If you want a ranged damage ability on plar, you use shards. It's no contest.

That said, Dark Flare does need a glow-up as a spammable option for plar. It's not good, and that 5% damage from the other morph is the nail in the coffin. It'd need an absurd buff to be good, but I'd love to see it.

sneakymitchell · January 26

Dark flare more range support debuff. Healers pretty much.

ArchMikem · January 26

merpins wrote: »

Lol. Dark flare blows, and has blown for over 5 years. The other morph, Barrage, is a consistent aoe that follows you, has a long duration, and boosts your class skills by 5%. Infinitely better in every application. If you want a ranged damage ability on plar, you use shards. It's no contest.

That said, Dark Flare does need a glow-up as a spammable option for plar. It's not good, and that 5% damage from the other morph is the nail in the coffin. It'd need an absurd buff to be good, but I'd love to see it.

Dark Flare also provides the 5% increase to Class Abilities. The current tool tip looks like it's decked with utility along with being ranged damage. Only things I find wrong with it is the cast time.

I just looked at the morphs again, Solar Barrage applies the extra 5% for a much longer duration...so I can see what you mean.

DocFrost72 · January 26

The main issue is that a decent amount of useful abilities in the templar's kit (sweeps/jabs, javelin, and cresent sweep come to mind off rip), as well as weapon options (dual wield is highly sought after in pve, sword and shield in pve), AND class philosophy (building the templar house :tm: and keeping inside it) all synergies far better with a melee oriented playstyle than ranged in PvE, and worse still in pvp there are few instances where you can guarantee someone isn't going to close the distance (where sweeps is much better than dark flare in both survivability and dmg output).

It is currently relegated, as sneakymitchell said, to a debuff ability in pvp. In order for templar to see a lot more use out of it, I'd suggest an overhaul to the skill.

I'd like to keep the .7s cast time to aid interaction with deadly strikes set/altmer passive, but perhaps have the ability undodgeable (but blockable) and have an aoe splash damage component. This gives it a reasonable niche in pve and pvp both.

El_Borracho · January 26

Plenty of Templars use Solar Barrage in PVE. You wouldn't use Dark Flare as Major Defile doesn't do much in PVE. For PVP, most Templars don't live long enough for either morph to matter

tsaescishoeshiner · January 27

When they standardized spammables, Dark Flare received two damage nerfs leading to a 37% reduction in damage. It deals the same damage as Snipe now, and neither ability is seen on most non-invis builds these days due to the cast time and travel time making them more likely to land within in a dodge roll's disjoint window.

It's still a pretty fun skill, but it needs different buffs to be good as a spammable. 4 seconds of Empower doesn't work well when it takes 3 seconds for a heavy attack, and if you're using a cast-time spammable, you're not doing a heavy attack build. Given that they presumably want to keep the damage & cost standard, it just needs another valuable secondary effect.

MashmalloMan · January 27

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

When they standardized spammables, Dark Flare received two damage nerfs leading to a 37% reduction in damage. It deals the same damage as Snipe now, and neither ability is seen on most non-invis builds these days due to the cast time and travel time making them more likely to land within in a dodge roll's disjoint window.

It's still a pretty fun skill, but it needs different buffs to be good as a spammable. 4 seconds of Empower doesn't work well when it takes 3 seconds for a heavy attack, and if you're using a cast-time spammable, you're not doing a heavy attack build. Given that they presumably want to keep the damage & cost standard, it just needs another valuable secondary effect.

Pretty much this.

Snipe gets poisoned and +25% damage from bow.
Crystal Frags gets a 33% chance to increase in damage by 66% and become instant.
Dark Flare does nothing extra damage related that is useful.

KlauthWarthog · January 27

Welcome to most Templar skills.
They do not get better the more you read into them.

ADarklore · January 27

I was playing Arcanist, and have recently gone back to Templar. I still run the same exact build I did before, including Sweeps, and don't mind the animation change. I also run Oakensoul, so I have no need of a skill that offers Empower; funny how Oakensoul has made many skills obsolete. It was a godsend for me, because playing on PC with controller, far too many times I'd swap bars, only to realize after trying to activate a skill, that the bar didn't actually swap... in the heat of battle, sometimes it's hard to tell. So for me, only having ONE bar takes so much aggravation out of the game.

I have, however, found one major upgrade that seems to have really helped... Deadly Strikes! It doesn't seem to benefit my Arcanist much, but for Templar it certainly has. I run Deadly with Order's Wrath and just burn through everything. I know it's a set that's been around awhile, but in the past I would search TTC for 'Deadly Strikes' and nothing would come up... only to recently discover it's actually called "DEADLY" without the 'Strikes'. Why call a set one thing, but then label it in-game as something else??

Turtle_Bot · January 27

ADarklore wrote: »

Why call a set one thing, but then label it in-game as something else??

This is unfortunately a very common issue with a lot of sets, especially older sets.

Joy_Division · January 27

It's bad. Cast time. Never has been good. Cast time. Eastiest skill in game to dodge. Cast time. Low DPS. Cast time.

StarOfElyon · January 27

Players all wear swift and the game is far to fast to be using a skill with a cast time. It needs a proc condition like Crystal Frags has, and it needs to be buffed.

SandandStars · January 27

dark flare + screaming cliff racer + flame skulls

sad little skills

Theignson · January 27

I tried Dark flare in PvP recently for about...5 minutes.

The animation is terrible. It makes you crouch/hunch like Quasimodo and takes forever.

Then it launches this thing way in the air that anyone can see and avoid.

AcadianPaladin · January 27

My pve magplar uses solar barage. It is an okay skill and I slot it because of a shortage of decent templar damage skills. Shards and Radiant are still usable but everything else has been nerfed to the point of not being worth using. Reflective Light lost its stun long ago. Purifying Light was nerfed. Jabs had both its damage and heal nerfed. Burning Light (passive) was nerfed impacting all skills.

soelslaev · January 27

You know in Cyrodiil when Crown is looking at the map trying to figure out the next move and 75% of the group is chasing a zero-damage-heal-tank round and round a tree nearby? That's when Dark Flare comes in handy. If you spam the skill (no light attack weaving), the cast time only happens once and then it rapid fires after that. Do this to that annoying tank so your buddies can kill it faster and stop farting around and actually roll out when crown makes the call. This also lets you stay outside of the blast radius of the tank's invisible bomber buddy who is hiding nearby.

Luckylancer · January 27

1. Dark flare is snipe but it is magicka. I cant believe how anyone did not point out this in this topic. Almost no one use snipe, so it makes sense dark flare is not used as well.
2. Although there is spreadsheet balancing(

), all classes have some special stuff that stands out. Jabs is templar's special gimmic. Dark flare cant compete.
3. Solar flare is a good skill and dark flare make it unaccesable.

MashmalloMan · January 28

Luckylancer wrote: »

1. Dark flare is snipe but it is magicka. I cant believe how anyone did not point out this in this topic. Almost no one use snipe, so it makes sense dark flare is not used as well.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

When they standardized spammables, Dark Flare received two damage nerfs leading to a 37% reduction in damage. It deals the same damage as Snipe now, and neither ability is seen on most non-invis builds these days due to the cast time and travel time making them more likely to land within in a dodge roll's disjoint window.

It's still a pretty fun skill, but it needs different buffs to be good as a spammable. 4 seconds of Empower doesn't work well when it takes 3 seconds for a heavy attack, and if you're using a cast-time spammable, you're not doing a heavy attack build. Given that they presumably want to keep the damage & cost standard, it just needs another valuable secondary effect.

Pretty much this.
Snipe gets poisoned and +25% damage from bow.

Crystal Frags gets a 33% chance to increase in damage by 66% and become instant.

Dark Flare does nothing extra damage related that is useful.

What do you think this comparison was for? ^ :P

MashmalloMan · January 28

soelslaev wrote: »

You know in Cyrodiil when Crown is looking at the map trying to figure out the next move and 75% of the group is chasing a zero-damage-heal-tank round and round a tree nearby? That's when Dark Flare comes in handy. If you spam the skill (no light attack weaving), the cast time only happens once and then it rapid fires after that. Do this to that annoying tank so your buddies can kill it faster and stop farting around and actually roll out when crown makes the call. This also lets you stay outside of the blast radius of the tank's invisible bomber buddy who is hiding nearby.

You can't cast Dark Flare faster than the Global Cooldown (1 second). Weaving light attacks shouldn't effect how fast you cast it because you cancel the light attack weave with the skill action, both when done right are within that 1 second global cooldown.

What you're describing is lag. Maybe your ping is super high so weaving doesn't work well where you are and it's best to just spam cast skills so when the server catches up to your inputs, they appear to fly out all at once, but that isn't how it actually works and shouldn't be advice you hand out.

Galeriano · January 28

Luckylancer wrote: »

1. Dark flare is snipe but it is magicka. I cant believe how anyone did not point out this in this topic. Almost no one use snipe, so it makes sense dark flare is not used as well.
2. Although there is spreadsheet balancing( ), all classes have some special stuff that stands out. Jabs is templar's special gimmic. Dark flare cant compete.
3. Solar flare is a good skill and dark flare make it unaccesable.

Almost noone uses snipe? What? Snipe/lethal arrow is propably the most popular ability used in PvP atm.

Minno · January 30

Call me crazy, but I actually liked that the templar of old was a master of channels/cast times. When they did the skill audits over the years, they definitely missed the mark on that class fantasy of it being a more tactically patient dmg dealer. The dps spells had obvious trade offs back then, but for templar it's mobility was offset by the fact it had access to major mending, miss chance through blinds, eclipse reflected ultimates and blazing shield actually punished your target for breaking it.

A cast time without a strong class fantasy and other spells designed around with that cast in mind, makes for a sluggish gameplay.

soelslaev · January 31

MashmalloMan wrote: »

You can't cast Dark Flare faster than the Global Cooldown (1 second). Weaving light attacks shouldn't effect how fast you cast it because you cancel the light attack weave with the skill action, both when done right are within that 1 second global cooldown.

What you're describing is lag. Maybe your ping is super high so weaving doesn't work well where you are...

False. I verified it just a few minutes ago.

If you spam Dark Flare with no light attack weaving, you get: Casting Time, Dark Flare, Dark Flare, Dark Flare, and so on.

Notice there is only 1 casting time for several Dark Flares. Just keep the target in line of sight and in range.

If you light attack weave with Dark Flare you get: Light Attack, Casting Time, Dark Flare, Light Attack, Casting Time, Dark Flare, and so on.

Notice that when light attack weaving you have to pay the casting time each time before Dark Flare goes off.

This has nothing to do with network latency. When I wrote "rapid fire" I meant one Dark Flare with no casting time in between them, but yes, I suppose they do come about than 1 per second, roughly. But it is still faster than light attack weaving and having to pay the casting time for each Dark Flare.

LunaFlora · January 31

i use Solar Barrage on my main templar's damage build.

Dark Flare applies Major Defile which seems useless in pve?
and i almost exclusively play pve content

edit to add:
plus my build is focused on aoe and damage over time so Solar Barrage is just always useful

ItsNotLiving · February 6

Minno wrote: »

Call me crazy, but I actually liked that the templar of old was a master of channels/cast times. When they did the skill audits over the years, they definitely missed the mark on that class fantasy of it being a more tactically patient dmg dealer. The dps spells had obvious trade offs back then, but for templar it's mobility was offset by the fact it had access to major mending, miss chance through blinds, eclipse reflected ultimates and blazing shield actually punished your target for breaking it.

A cast time without a strong class fantasy and other spells designed around with that cast in mind, makes for a sluggish gameplay.

Spreadsheet balance at its finest every class had every unique thing about them deleted. Every class needs class fantasy balanced without looking at all of them at the same time.

ArchMikem · February 7

It'd be nice if Dark Flare was reworked into a proper Single Target damaging ability with a fresh animation.

They could keep the Cast time, but instead of lobbing it with a travel time, imagine if we charged a shot in our hand for the 1.1 second before launching straight at the target like a mini Jesus Beam that hits the target instantly but the impact is an explosion that deals decreased short range AoE damage, and keeps the Defile.

Even better if it gained the special ability the Sorc Crystal Frags has. Percent chance to proc an instant cast. OR since it has "Flare" in the name, give it a secondary effect of keeping the target from becoming invisible for a time.

ealdwin · February 8

I've tried it, but the cast time and the animation just don't do it for me. (btw, has anyone noticed that there's a good number of Templar animations that involve casting a hand upwards to do X?)

The cast time alone wouldn't be a problem, but with the animation it just feels weird. Hard-casting frags isn't optimal, but at least if feels like something. Solar/Dark Flare feel unnecessary. The cast time suggests something of a build up, but the result is usually lackluster. At the same time though, the cast time feels like a lot of effort for what is small.

I'd honestly rather spam Sun Fire than Solar Flare, since at least it makes visual sense for a spammable: flinging a ball of solar light directly in a straight line at your enemy makes more sense than the arc. Solar Flare, on the other hand, is like using the mechanics of a mortar for a basic handgun, as in that's what it feels like: a lot of visual oomph for diddly squat damage.

autocookies · February 15

deleted

universal_wrath · February 16

Dark flare is spammable like jabs, only different is if you use dark flare, you only use dark flare alone. But if you use Jabs, you can solar barrage too. Barrage buff your jabs and does aoe dmg at same time, aka more dmg.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Why don't I see any Templars using Solar Flare?

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