Why don't I see any Templars using Solar Flare?

casparian · February 16

Nearly everything people are saying in this thread about Dark Flare has been said repeatedly, consistently, for nearly a decade at this point. There are a lot of head-scratchers in ZOS' design approach for me, but this is one of the biggest. Why have they done so little with this skill?

Here is a list of changes made to Dark Flare over the past several years of patches, starting with :

1.2.3: reduced the cast time from 1.5 to 1.3 seconds, added damage scaling with skill rank
1.6.5: added the Empower buff instead of an unnamed damage bonus to the next attack, added Major Defile
2.3.5: increased the damage by 12%
4.0.5: made the Empower count even if you didn't hit the target, and made a Templar passive extend the defile duration
4.2.8: fixed a bug where there was a delay between chain-casting channeled/cast time abilities
4.3.5: increased the damage by 10%
5.0.5: reduced the cast time from by 0.1 seconds, but decreased the damage by 37% "to make up for the fact that it can be cast more frequently" lmao. Also matched the projectile speed to other projectile skills.
5.1.5: increased the damage by 4% lel
6.3.5: reduced the cast time by 0.2 seconds (according to the dev note, this was to make it "easier to weave" within the GCD, but no one weaves this because it has a cast time) but nerfed the damage by 21%
7.2.5: fixed a bug where DF couldn't crit at all lol
8.0.5: reduced the cost by 270 magicka
8.1.5: DF grants Empower for 2 seconds longer (but Solar Barrage grants it 4x longer)
9.0.5: DF now grants the Sunsphere buff (but Solar Barrage grants it 4x longer)

In sum, in ten years of patches we've seen the following changes to Dark Flare:

decreased the cast time as cast times of other abilities have been decreased
massively nerfed the damage
added Empower
added Major Defile
fiddled with the Empower and Defile durations
fiddled with the cost
fixed a couple bugs

It's amazing that a skill with a PVP-only debuff and a PVE-only buff and a cast time and massively nerfed damage hasn't caught on after a decade. What else can you expect ZOS to do, add something useful?

Billium813 · February 16

The short durations compared to Solar Barrage, the Defile debuff, the channel and dodgeable projectile. Everything about the design says "PvP" to me.

Now, I think it's fine to be more PvP oriented in design (vs Solar Barrage), however that means you have to design it more for PvP.

Empower is misplaced and hurting the power budget. Empower and Defile shouldn't be on the same Skill now that Empower is only PvE.
Defile just feels really weak. I like that it's effecting Shields now, but nerfing from 18% -> 12% is the absolute WRONG direction for Major Defile, especially on a 4 second duration!

Alternatives

Maybe it set the player off balance if hit multiple times? Increase the Defile and Sunsphere buff duration?

Zama666 · February 17

In PvP, paired with Deadly Strikes it is a bit better.
But not that much of a difference, that extra 5%

If the empower buff worked (maybe at half of the pve version) maybe?

just my $0.02

danno8 · February 18

Zama666 wrote: »

In PvP, paired with Deadly Strikes it is a bit better.
But not that much of a difference, that extra 5%

If the empower buff worked (maybe at half of the pve version) maybe?

just my $0.02

Deadly Strike set has no effect on Flare. It only affects Channelled and DoT, not cast time skills.

Minno · February 21

casparian wrote: »

Nearly everything people are saying in this thread about Dark Flare has been said repeatedly, consistently, for nearly a decade at this point. There are a lot of head-scratchers in ZOS' design approach for me, but this is one of the biggest. Why have they done so little with this skill?

Here is a list of changes made to Dark Flare over the past several years of patches, starting with :

1.2.3: reduced the cast time from 1.5 to 1.3 seconds, added damage scaling with skill rank
1.6.5: added the Empower buff instead of an unnamed damage bonus to the next attack, added Major Defile
2.3.5: increased the damage by 12%
4.0.5: made the Empower count even if you didn't hit the target, and made a Templar passive extend the defile duration
4.2.8: fixed a bug where there was a delay between chain-casting channeled/cast time abilities
4.3.5: increased the damage by 10%
5.0.5: reduced the cast time from by 0.1 seconds, but decreased the damage by 37% "to make up for the fact that it can be cast more frequently" lmao. Also matched the projectile speed to other projectile skills.
5.1.5: increased the damage by 4% lel
6.3.5: reduced the cast time by 0.2 seconds (according to the dev note, this was to make it "easier to weave" within the GCD, but no one weaves this because it has a cast time) but nerfed the damage by 21%
7.2.5: fixed a bug where DF couldn't crit at all lol
8.0.5: reduced the cost by 270 magicka
8.1.5: DF grants Empower for 2 seconds longer (but Solar Barrage grants it 4x longer)
9.0.5: DF now grants the Sunsphere buff (but Solar Barrage grants it 4x longer)

In sum, in ten years of patches we've seen the following changes to Dark Flare:
decreased the cast time as cast times of other abilities have been decreased

massively nerfed the damage

added Empower

added Major Defile

fiddled with the Empower and Defile durations

fiddled with the cost

fixed a couple bugs

It's amazing that a skill with a PVP-only debuff and a PVE-only buff and a cast time and massively nerfed damage hasn't caught on after a decade. What else can you expect ZOS to do, add something useful?

I miss when it hit HARD. At least you had templar snipers running around making cringe pvp content lol.

casparian · February 21

Minno wrote: »

I miss when it hit HARD. At least you had templar snipers running around making cringe pvp content lol.

Ugh yeah when javelin had a knockback DF was involved in some pretty sick combos. Many good times were had sniping from keep walls.

Zama666 · February 25

danno8 wrote: »

Zama666 wrote: »

In PvP, paired with Deadly Strikes it is a bit better.
But not that much of a difference, that extra 5%

If the empower buff worked (maybe at half of the pve version) maybe?

just my $0.02

Deadly Strike set has no effect on Flare. It only affects Channelled and DoT, not cast time skills.

crap! tankz for setting me straight on this!

huskandhunger · February 28

The ability has great damage, but it's ugly and looks weird like the Templar trying to use the restroom briefly when 'conjuring' energy 😒

yadibroz · March 3

SandandStars wrote: »

dark flare + screaming cliff racer + flame skulls

sad little skills

Make sense