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What do you feel when you have to kick players or leave a group?

Parasaurolophus
Parasaurolophus
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Yesterday was a dreadful evening for my gaming experience. Coming home from work, I wanted to have a pleasant evening, complete a couple of dungeons or trials, and then go to sleep. But I felt cursed.

First, I logged in on my tank and wanted to do pledges for 6 keys. I gathered people, some from the guild, some from the group finder. The first dungeon was Banished Cells, and it quickly became evident that we wouldn't achieve 6 keys. Everyone in the party had over 1000 CP, but the DPS was so low that it took about 2 minutes for side bosses. I simply left, writing that sorry, guys, I have to go.

Okay... I log in on another character, a damage dealer. I open the group finder and see that there's a group for vDSR. We assemble and start. The first bash mechanic on the first boss results in a wipe. One wipe, two wipes. People started leaving, and I did too.

I open the group finder again, check for a party in vSE. Everything seemed fine, but on the first boss, after 7 minutes of fighting, the boss still had 86% HP, and several times, we were close to wiping. I left again.

I think it's unnecessary to say that I was already in a pretty bad mood. I decided to farm crystals and run random dungeons on all characters to at least spend some time in the game productively. I log in again on the tank, start a random dungeon. I end up in Scrivener's Hall. Again, all players above 1000 CP. It takes us 50 seconds for the first mob pack. In normal Scrivener's Hall! I leave.

I have only an hour and a half left. I decide to form a party for vDSA. One player had 600 CP, and I just kicked him. I apologized and wrote that I believe his CP would be insufficient for a comfortable run. But he got offended and started complaining about me in the guild chat. And you know what? I felt nothing. Absolutely nothing. Usually, I prefer not to kick people from the party because I later feel guilty. But after everything I went through this evening, I felt nothing. I found a replacement player. The first round started, and I saw another player just spamming light attacks with a bow. I had to kick him too. He complained, wrote in private messages. But I ignored him... I don't like and don't want to argue. I don't like teaching people how to play. The person had over 1000 CP and all he did was spam light attacks from a bow. I quickly found a replacement... After finishing the arena, I went to bed. Completely shattered and drained.
Edited by ZOS_Hadeostry on January 13, 2024 4:17AM
PC/EU
  • Ragnarok0130
    Ragnarok0130
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    That's the danger of group finder on veteran and veteran+ levels that people like myself identified as a potential shortfall for bringing a group finder to trials based on our raiding experience here and in other games.

    I've had to leave veteran dungeons for the same reason as you in the past and it sucks but you quickly know if a group can complete the content without it becoming a prog slog or even if you know they can't clear it under any circumstance. It sucks to leave but sometimes you have to for your own sanity. I have also dragged new players that I met in group finder through veteran dungeons if I though it was just a knowledge/mech issue and not a skill issue even if it takes much longer than I anticipated when queuing.

    I've only ever had to remove other people from trial groups due to extremely low DPS or more often because they were running their mouth needlessly insulting people instead of being a good member of the team. The worst part of that is trying to find a replacement for the position IMO and not kicking the offender.

    All in all with group finder sometimes you roll all 1s and other times you get all 6s...luck of the draw.
  • Melivar
    Melivar
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    I generally don't kick people and unless they seem to be doing something detrimental to the group like running ahead and someone else initiates, I don't vote to kick much either.

    When I leave a group, I will normally just say good luck and hopefully you get a quick replacement but feels like this group will be unsuccessful for "x". If I get any further comments I will normally just say "Your entitled to your opinion as am I" and leave it at that.

    I often have a fixed amount of time to play and unless it's a guild member who has asked to try to get something accomplished and know going in that it might be a chore, I will make a judgement call that benefits myself.

    I can suffer a fair amount of mental pain for guildies and will try my darndest to make things work before pulling the plug, randoms not so much.
  • sharquez
    sharquez
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    Anything from Schadenfreude to mild annoyance. It depends on what's going on to cause me to kick/leave.
    At least 3 of each class. PVPing Since IC.
  • Azphira
    Azphira
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    Did you not know that if you don't wait for the tank you do more damage on the parse than the other DPS in the group?
  • Destai
    Destai
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    If I get to the point where I'm leaving or kicking someone, I'm usually relieved after it's done. I generally leave or kick if someone's got a bad attitude or the group isn't viable. I'll be patient in normal randoms, usually I'm on a toon who can carry the group if needed. But if I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall or people don't wanna listen, I'm not wasting my time.
  • valenwood_vegan
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    When doing group stuff, I play with friends and guildies and don't get into any of this drama.

    I'm not saying that's the perfect solution or will always be an option but it works for me.
  • Sakiri
    Sakiri
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    Syldras wrote: »
    Sakiri wrote: »
    I can kill trash two man faster than that guy's entire four man group did.
    Being in a bad mood is fully anticipated there.

    Of course it sounds like those runs weren't exactly going well, quite the opposite, but feeling, quote, "completely shattered and drained" because of this?! Not having everything going the way one wants it to be is the normal risk of doing something with random, unknown people. Everywhere in life, by the way. Solution, in this case, would be to join a specialized guild and ask for people to join in the guild chat. Easy solution without any drama.

    I would too after several hours of that nonsense. I'm an emotional person though. I dislike wasting my time as well.
  • ArchMikem
    ArchMikem
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    I was Healing Vet Dread Cellar last night cause it was the pledge and I wanted Crimson Oath pages. My first PuG was epic, most likely a pre-made that queued for a fourth. The Tank knew what they were doing and the DPS was incredible, Dungeon flew by.

    Decided to run again cause I was still hoping for a chest page. Second PuG was horrible. One of the DDs taught us how to get to the secret boss, only to randomly drop group. Took a while to find a replacement. Then on the first Boss I noticed our Tank, who was under 1k CP was not right. They definitely tried, buy they had NO block mitigation and kept leading the Boss all over the place. Dude died so many times and we wiped over and over, I debated leaving, but damn my nice guy attitude I kept giving them chances. The entire run was a massive struggle. I realized on the final Boss my Healer didn't have any repair kits. We wiped so many times I was almost healing with broken gear.

    Two runs, two group extremes. And I didn't even loot the page I wanted.

    So no, if I leave or kick, I don't feel bad cause it's my last resort for a very good reason.
    Edited by ArchMikem on January 12, 2024 8:26PM
    CP1,900+ Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
    Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!
  • Nihilr
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    I don't care if I'm doing a daily or a random. If your expectation is to get an achievement, don't PUG, it's always a gamble.

    If you're talking about Vet HM, dps on a non-dlc dungeon doesn't matter. If you're that impatient still, why are you PUGing? Sure it sucks that it *can* go faster, but it's selfish if you think the world should play how you play so you can get what you want.

    A good fix for this would actually be scaling dungeons to co-op so players can solo for dailies but with lower quality droprates.

    Edit: I say this because my husband and I play to play. We're not the worst players, we're not the best. And we can solo veteran (non-dlc) dungeons by ourselves, but it generally goes faster with 2 more players. So why not? But if it goes just as slow, we don't care. People can't learn how to play if they get kicked or can never play a full run because snobs constantly drop group.
    Edited by Nihilr on January 12, 2024 8:35PM
  • mocap
    mocap
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    Everyone in the party had over 1000 CP, but the DPS was so low that it took about 2 minutes for side bosses
    Afaik, 1000 CP is gaining fairly quickly this days, which produces a lot of high level players who can't actually do anything.
  • Sakiri
    Sakiri
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    Syldras wrote: »
    Sakiri wrote: »
    I would too after several hours of that nonsense. I'm an emotional person though. I dislike wasting my time as well.

    And why is it not possible to stop before being an emotional wreck and having wasted hours? If I would see it's not going well after the second or third attempt, I would have tried to find a different solution. No, actually I wouldn't have joined random groups at all if I know I don't have much time and/or can't tolerate people (maybe newbies) joining who take a bit longer or don't understand mechanics quite yet. It's the nature of random groups not to know who'll join in and how skilled they are. If you want absolute security, join a guild.

    It is possible to stop, but he wanted to try to do something productive and is likely stubborn so keeps trying.
  • Necrotech_Master
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    mocap wrote: »
    Everyone in the party had over 1000 CP, but the DPS was so low that it took about 2 minutes for side bosses
    Afaik, 1000 CP is gaining fairly quickly this days, which produces a lot of high level players who can't actually do anything.

    ive also seen cp 300 players who definitely knew what they were doing, which could have been a console transfer to PC situation
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
  • Syldras
    Syldras
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    Sakiri wrote: »
    It is possible to stop, but he wanted to try to do something productive and is likely stubborn so keeps trying.

    Then stubbornness and not knowing when to stop might be the problem?

    There was a famous quote - in Sun Tzu's "Art of War", if I remember right - about doing the same thing several times and failing, yet still continuing just the same, but expecting a different result... ;)
    @Syldras | PC | EU
    The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
    Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
    Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
    Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
  • Sakiri
    Sakiri
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    Syldras wrote: »
    Sakiri wrote: »
    It is possible to stop, but he wanted to try to do something productive and is likely stubborn so keeps trying.

    Then stubbornness and not knowing when to stop might be the problem?

    There was a famous quote - in Sun Tzu's "Art of War", if I remember right - about doing the same thing several times and failing, yet still continuing just the same, but expecting a different result... ;)

    Thought that was Einstein and the definition of insanity.

    Either way, I've heard it before. And I can't control other people, only myself. I personally don't have patience for randoms so I just don't do them. Too jaded after wow's elitists and.... less smart people.
  • Vulkunne
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    I feel the wind at my back and the sun on my face.
    I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. I can tell you I don't have money, but what I do have are a very particular set of skills.
  • ZOS_Hadeostry
    Greetings,

    After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it's about grouping in dungeons/trials.

    Thank you for your understanding
    Staff Post
  • Syldras
    Syldras
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    Sakiri wrote: »
    Thought that was Einstein and the definition of insanity.
    Either way, I've heard it before. And I can't control other people, only myself. I personally don't have patience for randoms so I just don't do them. Too jaded after wow's elitists and.... less smart people.

    Oh, I'm quite sure there were different people throughout history who got that idea. There was definitively something like that too in a book about battle tactics in a feudal society, I'm just not sure if it was Sun Tzu or maybe Musashi's "Five Rings". It's been a while since I read both of them (roughly 20 years, to be exact). Anyway, a random group is a random group and if it's not clear by logical thinking that this means all kinds of characters and skill levels, OP found out after a few runs but still continued, ending up distraught, by their own description. It's not the fault of the group finder or of ESO though, but in my opinion the whole thing is about wrong expectations, frustration tolerance and something like stubbornness or maybe lack of flexibility, or not knowing when to stop. Things that might cause problems in all matters of life.
    @Syldras | PC | EU
    The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
    Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
    Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
    Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
  • Nightowl_74
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    I only kick people if their behavior bothers the rest of the group and I start getting requests to kick, or they appear to be afk without explanation. I'm an average player and I can't normally make up for anyone else's deficiency but if its just a matter of going more slowly, that's fine. Otherwise, if the group seems to have any chance at all I'm willing to stick around and try.

    Generally, if I'm doing anything with a group it's in the evening and afterward I log off and watch some tv or a movie before bed. If things aren't going well I feel a little disappointed and log off a bit early to recharge. Or occasionally I do something else by myself in-game, but not often. If they're going great, sometimes I play right up until I need to get some sleep.
  • AvalonRanger
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    What do you feel when you have to kick players or leave a group?

    Of course, it's not good feeling. But sometimes we should do it for the fair playing.

    Recently, I start 12 men group Trial experience. As a Healer role, I tried to save many people as possible as I can.
    But other CP over 2000 Healer is totally fake. So, we wiped many times. Then I decided to leave.
    No other choice at that time. :'(

    I couldn't believe that still people being fake Healer even in 12 men Trial of group finder.

    My playing time Mon-Friday UTC13:00-16:00 [PC-NA] CP over2000 now.
    I have [1Tough tank] [1StamSorc-DD] [1Necro-DD] [1Real Healer]
    But, I'm Tank main player. Recently I'm doing Healer.

    2023/12/21
    By the way...Dungeon-Meshi(One of Famous Japanese fantasy story comic book) got finale...
    Good-bye "King of Monster Eater".
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