Balance changes to Arcanist class

Dubhliam · January 20

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Hottytotz wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

I think hard numbers are far more revealing than words and opinions.

It’s just the same thing as Oakensoul several months ago, a majority using the popular build that feels easier to manage.

Meanwhile over two thousand mag/stam Templars are banging out higher average scores in VSE HM, less average dps but top AOE damage isn’t everything

The speed running players will always clear with the fastest times no matter what meta they’re using from one patch to the next, and among the highest avg scores you always see the obligatory stamsorc (for minor prophecy), dragonknight (Zen, minor brutality, Alkosh), Necro (vulnerability and catalyst)

Poor nightblade and warden aren’t needed or anywhere close to competing. Sorc already gives minor crit buff and Arcanist can easily slap brittle on something for 20 whole seconds

Arcanist is both easier to manage and the strongest DPS at the same time.

These templars are literally being carried by arcanists. Every templar who got score that increased class's average was a member of a team dominated by arcanists and his good score just improved the average score for overall state of the class. It's pretty normal that the best class will not be getting the highest average score in that particular table. Main reason is overwhelming amount of people playing the best class which makes it harder to come up with highest average at the end. DK for example which was a meta before arcanist came in was also not getting top average score. It's basically a hard rule that the strongest DD class will never be top DD in this particular table.

Just by looking at average scores we can also praise DK healers for being the best trial setup which we all know isn't the case.

When it comes to damage arcanist is just dominating, leaving everyone behind in both trash and boss fights. Here are the results of damage done from the same data table posted by You

When 90% of the top 1% are all playing the same thing, they can make that one thing appear to be really good by a wide margin in comparison to everything else. That's not to say everything else is bad by a wide margin.

Look inside the group with fastest clear time for Ansuul as of today, the Arcanist Beamer DPS weren't in the top spot. A Necromancer wearing Elemental Catalyst beat them all by 5%. The Templar was on warlock duty. If the amazing 180k beamer AOE damage was all that mattered, why weren't any of them in the fastest Ansuul clear?

In the current fastest clear of arch wizard the two templars were 2nd and 3rd, 5% behind the 1st Arcanist Beamer, I wouldn't say they were carried

In the current fastest clear of Exarc the templar was 10% behind the top beamer. Again I wouldn't say they were carried, but that fight has a big stretch of area to cover.

If anything the 20m long AOE DPS is a bit overtuned, like with Rockgrove, or Sunspire where Lokkestiz and Navi adds can so easily melt like butter and speed up the fight a lot. However Looking at Yolnakrin, the current top Beamer Arcanist still hasn't caught up to the top nightblade from Update 37. There's probably a perfectly sized adjustment that could be made, but I'd find it a miracle if the devs can even find that sweet spot instead of demolishing it too hard

Super disingenuous post here.... Anyone can go to ESO Logs and just go boss by boss for 10 pages of dps rankings for every single trial boss in the game for the last couple patches even... Its 80% arcanists and 10% dks and templars on fights were beamers are actually decent.

To act like most decent to hardcore groups are not taking 3-5 dps arcanists is just flat out lying and misleading. Anyone clicking on logs for more than 20s will see the reality of the situation. The fact that the first 5 pages of top dpsers are 80-90% arcanists tells all. Its not a debate. Its similar to how necro was stacked as dps because of blast bones tuning and colossus major vuln being only available to them. The real difference between those two metas was that necro is really hard to get the rotation and rhythm down while arcanist is aaaaaalmost sorc levels of easy. If it didnt have crux it would be sorc levels of easy in PVE.

Can totally agree with your sentiment.

But a class being easy to play is not really an issue in my opinion.
Being easy AND overpowered is.

I would really love it if devs would take some time to tone down Arcanist so that players would actually play what they want to play instead of thinking they are forced to play this class because it is the best.
Because it IS the best.

Here is the thing though, and I do agree that no one should feel forced to play anything they don’t want. However, people doing endgame stuff like leaderboards chasing and score pushing and all that, those players will all flock to whatever gets them the best and fastest score. That will usually make whatever class is flooding the leaderboards over performing.

I know of a lot of players who do indeed just log into whatever they want, do whatever content they want and have fun doing it. Maybe Scribing will open things up, I am guessing not but we will see sometime in June. I predict though that Arcanist will be toned down, but then it’ll probably just go back to a DK meta and you’ll see those threads popping up again calling for them to be nerfed because of leaderboards.

The moral of my long post is, it’s not going to change. Players looking to score push and chase leaderboards and all that will always seek whatever gets them the higher and faster score. When other like minded players find out what that thing is they flock to it like someone feeding the birds in the park. So with that in mind players should just log into whatever they want, if you aren’t a leaderboard person then don’t focus on that… just play what is fun. Even my broken of a class Necromancer can get all content done…

Your mistake is looking at things from the perspective of a Necromancer main.

In my experience, Arcanist can only be compared to Oakensorc in terms of which players are most attracted to this playstyle.
If you look at where Oakensorc is now, there are still players that play it to this day, just because it is easy.
The ones that don't play it anymore went for Arcanist simply because it is better, with almost the same ease of play.
They didn't quit Oakensorc even after all the nerfs.
Ease of play is what makes these two builds attractive to most people.

OtarTheMad · January 20

Dubhliam wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Hottytotz wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

I think hard numbers are far more revealing than words and opinions.

It’s just the same thing as Oakensoul several months ago, a majority using the popular build that feels easier to manage.

Meanwhile over two thousand mag/stam Templars are banging out higher average scores in VSE HM, less average dps but top AOE damage isn’t everything

The speed running players will always clear with the fastest times no matter what meta they’re using from one patch to the next, and among the highest avg scores you always see the obligatory stamsorc (for minor prophecy), dragonknight (Zen, minor brutality, Alkosh), Necro (vulnerability and catalyst)

Poor nightblade and warden aren’t needed or anywhere close to competing. Sorc already gives minor crit buff and Arcanist can easily slap brittle on something for 20 whole seconds

Arcanist is both easier to manage and the strongest DPS at the same time.

These templars are literally being carried by arcanists. Every templar who got score that increased class's average was a member of a team dominated by arcanists and his good score just improved the average score for overall state of the class. It's pretty normal that the best class will not be getting the highest average score in that particular table. Main reason is overwhelming amount of people playing the best class which makes it harder to come up with highest average at the end. DK for example which was a meta before arcanist came in was also not getting top average score. It's basically a hard rule that the strongest DD class will never be top DD in this particular table.

Just by looking at average scores we can also praise DK healers for being the best trial setup which we all know isn't the case.

When it comes to damage arcanist is just dominating, leaving everyone behind in both trash and boss fights. Here are the results of damage done from the same data table posted by You

When 90% of the top 1% are all playing the same thing, they can make that one thing appear to be really good by a wide margin in comparison to everything else. That's not to say everything else is bad by a wide margin.

Look inside the group with fastest clear time for Ansuul as of today, the Arcanist Beamer DPS weren't in the top spot. A Necromancer wearing Elemental Catalyst beat them all by 5%. The Templar was on warlock duty. If the amazing 180k beamer AOE damage was all that mattered, why weren't any of them in the fastest Ansuul clear?

In the current fastest clear of arch wizard the two templars were 2nd and 3rd, 5% behind the 1st Arcanist Beamer, I wouldn't say they were carried

In the current fastest clear of Exarc the templar was 10% behind the top beamer. Again I wouldn't say they were carried, but that fight has a big stretch of area to cover.

If anything the 20m long AOE DPS is a bit overtuned, like with Rockgrove, or Sunspire where Lokkestiz and Navi adds can so easily melt like butter and speed up the fight a lot. However Looking at Yolnakrin, the current top Beamer Arcanist still hasn't caught up to the top nightblade from Update 37. There's probably a perfectly sized adjustment that could be made, but I'd find it a miracle if the devs can even find that sweet spot instead of demolishing it too hard

Super disingenuous post here.... Anyone can go to ESO Logs and just go boss by boss for 10 pages of dps rankings for every single trial boss in the game for the last couple patches even... Its 80% arcanists and 10% dks and templars on fights were beamers are actually decent.

To act like most decent to hardcore groups are not taking 3-5 dps arcanists is just flat out lying and misleading. Anyone clicking on logs for more than 20s will see the reality of the situation. The fact that the first 5 pages of top dpsers are 80-90% arcanists tells all. Its not a debate. Its similar to how necro was stacked as dps because of blast bones tuning and colossus major vuln being only available to them. The real difference between those two metas was that necro is really hard to get the rotation and rhythm down while arcanist is aaaaaalmost sorc levels of easy. If it didnt have crux it would be sorc levels of easy in PVE.

Can totally agree with your sentiment.

But a class being easy to play is not really an issue in my opinion.
Being easy AND overpowered is.

I would really love it if devs would take some time to tone down Arcanist so that players would actually play what they want to play instead of thinking they are forced to play this class because it is the best.
Because it IS the best.

Here is the thing though, and I do agree that no one should feel forced to play anything they don’t want. However, people doing endgame stuff like leaderboards chasing and score pushing and all that, those players will all flock to whatever gets them the best and fastest score. That will usually make whatever class is flooding the leaderboards over performing.

I know of a lot of players who do indeed just log into whatever they want, do whatever content they want and have fun doing it. Maybe Scribing will open things up, I am guessing not but we will see sometime in June. I predict though that Arcanist will be toned down, but then it’ll probably just go back to a DK meta and you’ll see those threads popping up again calling for them to be nerfed because of leaderboards.

The moral of my long post is, it’s not going to change. Players looking to score push and chase leaderboards and all that will always seek whatever gets them the higher and faster score. When other like minded players find out what that thing is they flock to it like someone feeding the birds in the park. So with that in mind players should just log into whatever they want, if you aren’t a leaderboard person then don’t focus on that… just play what is fun. Even my broken of a class Necromancer can get all content done…

Your mistake is looking at things from the perspective of a Necromancer main.

In my experience, Arcanist can only be compared to Oakensorc in terms of which players are most attracted to this playstyle.
If you look at where Oakensorc is now, there are still players that play it to this day, just because it is easy.
The ones that don't play it anymore went for Arcanist simply because it is better, with almost the same ease of play.
They didn't quit Oakensorc even after all the nerfs.
Ease of play is what makes these two builds attractive to most people.

I am looking at it from someone who has played since beta and just seen a lot of trends. It’s the same cycle over and over and really no one wins. Basically it’s not the playstyle, it’s the players.

I may have played Necro since 2019 but before that I was Warden/Sorc and before that I was Sorc and all kinds of things. Right now I am a Magcro in PvE and a Magsorc in PvP. Basically I have all kinds of alts.

I see what your saying and others too but for me, for someone who does not pay attention to leaderboards, it’s becoming a question of: are people flooding the top because the class is easy and OP or is the flooding of the top making it seem that way? It’s hard to tell for me because I see Arcanist as a good class, sure, but not over performing at all. In PvP they are meh outside of tank and in PvE they can melt mobs quick but so can my level 10 so… not a great comparison.

Uvi_AUT · January 20

I honestly wouldnt mind having Fatecarver nerfed if it would mean something else gets buffed. I kinda hate only having the one trick.
Plus its really bad in PVE, since it locks you in an animation for way too long. Seriously Arcanists. How many times do you have to stop Midstream because you have to roll or Block.

Adernath · January 20

Dubhliam wrote: »

If you compare Abyssal Impact to other similar non morphed skills, you start to see just how OP Arcanist is.

And Encase only gets Major Vitality and a weaker delayed damage from Restraining Prison and Shattering Prison morphs respectively.

If they would overwork encase so that it works in a similar way than fossilize, it would have actually be useful in PvP.

deejayvee · January 20

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

Seriously Arcanists. How many times do you have to stop Midstream because you have to roll or Block.

It's almost like fatecarver has a downside to balance it...

xylena_lazarow · January 20

SandandStars wrote: »

ubertanky undeath arcs crutching on marselok mdw vatesh

Have you played this style build yourself? Against someone good?

Could you land a Maars combo on them? Was it easy to?

Uvi_AUT · January 20

deejayvee wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

Seriously Arcanists. How many times do you have to stop Midstream because you have to roll or Block.

It's almost like fatecarver has a downside to balance it...

Exactly. If you think of it thats a huge downside. Arcanist in real settings is not that great. 4,5 seconds without being able to react is a real pain in the rear.

Galeriano · January 20

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

deejayvee wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

Seriously Arcanists. How many times do you have to stop Midstream because you have to roll or Block.

It's almost like fatecarver has a downside to balance it...

Exactly. If you think of it thats a huge downside. Arcanist in real settings is not that great. 4,5 seconds without being able to react is a real pain in the rear.

It really isn't that big of a pain and huge downside. Pragmatic fatecarver is a morph designed specifically to offset majority of potential threats You will encounter while beaming. And if that wouldn't be enough arcanist kit have lots of passive defensive solutions that can also greatly boost Your defense and secure survival while beaming. It's also not like You can't just move outside of potential danger while beaming.

If arcanist would't be that great in real settings it wouldn't have around 50% of overall trial DD population in normal, veteran and hard modes. In reality You can more often than not freely cast the beam and You are equipped with tools that will allow You to cast it even while under pressure so at the end the amount of beams that will be interrupted because of the need to dodge or block will be miniscule percentage. And even when You need to stop beaming because You have to roll or block Your overall DPS loss in whole fight will be barely noticable.

Arcanist is the easiest and the strongest class at the moment in majority of real settings with plenty of statistics to prove it.

SmellyUnlimited · January 21

The class is by orders of magnitude stronger and easier to play than any other class in the game. If you took a new player, fitted them with an Arcanist (assuming a set skill level) they would be outperforming every other class in the game till late game. We keep focusing on end game trials, but the “middle tier” is where the majority of players call home.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 21

Adernath wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

If you compare Abyssal Impact to other similar non morphed skills, you start to see just how OP Arcanist is.

And Encase only gets Major Vitality and a weaker delayed damage from Restraining Prison and Shattering Prison morphs respectively.

If they would overwork encase so that it works in a similar way than fossilize, it would have actually be useful in PvP.

Not to get off topic, but streak is already one of the best stuns in the game. There's no reason or use to have a fossilize on Sorc.

yadibroz · January 22

Dubhliam wrote: »

Let's face it, it is inevitable.
Everybody knows Arcanist is overperforming, and the nerf hammer will come either with the new dungeon DLC or chapter.

I personally love the playstyle of the class, and think that it is beneficial for the game to have an "easy" class that can perform well, without the need to farm specific sets and mythics to be viable (looking at you Oakensorc).

The problem occurs when this easy class outperforms other classes that are way harder to play.

So, let's try to identify exactly what makes Arcanist so powerful.

In my opinion, there are only two nerfs that need to happen to bring Arcanist a little bit out of the OP realm:
1. Reduce the AoE capabilities of Fatecarver.
This skill is the bread and butter of this class, and I think it is a good idea to keep it powerful, since there is a mini game going on around it. However, the AoE potential is too powerful. I think it shoud behave similar to Templar's Puncturing Strikes- dealing half[insert %] damage to all targets beyond the first one.
2. Nerf Cephaliarch's Flail
Nerf it!
NERF IT NERF IT NERF IT!
This single skill is packed to the brim with stuff other classes can only dream about, and all that after the fact that this skill is a core part of an Arcanist's arsenal, being the Crux generator it is.
Let's get over this skill, and what it does:
-it is a powerful direct damage AoE
-it is an exectue below 50%
-it debuffs targets with a unique 5% damage debuff
-it is a powerful self heal that heals even if no targets were hit
-it is an AoE root
-it generates Crux, as mentioned

Basically, the whole "balance" discussion for Arcanist can be boiled down to "what are we going to do about Flail?"

In my opinion, the solution should be somewhere along the lines of:
-remove the immobilize from the base skill
-remove the damage capabilities of this morph, let it remain a Crux generator and a self heal
-grant the damage capabilities and immobilize to Tentacular Dread, the Crux spending morph

This should make Arcanist players lose some of the damage, while retaining the heal and utility of Flail, or choose to go the damage route, but lose the utility of the skill, forcing them to use Runeblades for generating Crux.

Honestly, Arcanist has a powerful single target damage skill that generates Crux that nobody uses.
Because it sucks compared to Flail.

Arcanist is a fun class to play, but seriously devs, what were you thinking with Flail?

Leave it, yes nerf it for pvp but not pve.

ADarklore · January 23

KS_Amt38 wrote: »

VoidCommander wrote: »

I have had so many rants about Flail being so ludicrously over tuned. How about we just make templar jabs not have any damage falloff for multiple targets and call it even? I think that seems fair lol.

Even with that, the arcanist would massively overperform. Either they bring all class to a level where the difference is small or they nerf arcanist to be on par with all the other classes. On every log you look, Arcanists are dominating it.

All other classes are only there to buff the arcanists even more. Some classes does not even have a right of existence as a trial DD (Nightblade, Warden...).

Have you ever thought that perhaps Arcanist is dominating is because players are enjoying PLAYING the class, so there are a lot more Arcanists?? Not everyone picks a class based on its DPS. Myself, I'm enjoying playing it because it's a fun class and I can do what I want to do with it. However, I could do the same exact thing with a MAGplar as well, just maybe not as quickly.

Diablo 4 should be the example of what happens when an MMO decides to make a major nerf... and ZOS had this very same experience a year or so ago when they made major nerfs and people left and never returned. So they need to be extremely careful at avoiding over-nerfing anything.

Reginald_leBlem · January 23

Arcanist is fun and easy to play, and has great range and synergy with a couple of sets. Some other classes could use some tweaks to be brought up to par, but I don't think nerfing arcanist into unfun oblivion is a good answer. It's the answer I expect to get, but that doesn't make it good.

Uvi_AUT · January 23

Galeriano wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

deejayvee wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

Seriously Arcanists. How many times do you have to stop Midstream because you have to roll or Block.

It's almost like fatecarver has a downside to balance it...

Exactly. If you think of it thats a huge downside. Arcanist in real settings is not that great. 4,5 seconds without being able to react is a real pain in the rear.

It really isn't that big of a pain and huge downside. Pragmatic fatecarver is a morph designed specifically to offset majority of potential threats You will encounter while beaming. And if that wouldn't be enough arcanist kit have lots of passive defensive solutions that can also greatly boost Your defense and secure survival while beaming. It's also not like You can't just move outside of potential danger while beaming.

If arcanist would't be that great in real settings it wouldn't have around 50% of overall trial DD population in normal, veteran and hard modes. In reality You can more often than not freely cast the beam and You are equipped with tools that will allow You to cast it even while under pressure so at the end the amount of beams that will be interrupted because of the need to dodge or block will be miniscule percentage. And even when You need to stop beaming because You have to roll or block Your overall DPS loss in whole fight will be barely noticable.

Arcanist is the easiest and the strongest class at the moment in majority of real settings with plenty of statistics to prove it.

Dont trust any statistic you havent personally falsified.
Jokes aside I dont deny in a perfect setting like a Trial Arcanist is Top Dog at the moment.
But solo Fatecarver doesnt protect you from Knockbacks, Stuns, Interrupts and all the neat little things mobs do every 2 seconds in VMA or EA.
Just think how often you roll out of something or interrupt some spell. All this would interrupt Fatecarver, remove the Shield, seriously Tank your DPS and the Healing from Pale Order or the Proccs of Iceheart.

In PvP you literally cant use Fatecarver, which means youre stuck with a Char that cant use his defining ability. And all the other are mediocre at best.

Again, not denying how good Arcanist is in organized Trials. But its mediocre at best everywhere else.

As for difficulty. All Chars besides Necromancer are equally easy to use. And that one is just harder because of clunky mechanics (BB-Tracking, CorpseTethers and unreliable aimingsystems).

ceruulean · January 23

Arcanists have the highest vMA scores, and some of the most entries and attempts (which means a lot of people are clearing vMA on arcanist because they can't or won't clear with any other class). It used to be sorc that was the easy mode vMA class but now it's dethroned.

Uvi_AUT · January 24

ceruulean wrote: »

Arcanists have the highest vMA scores, and some of the most entries and attempts (which means a lot of people are clearing vMA on arcanist because they can't or won't clear with any other class). It used to be sorc that was the easy mode vMA class but now it's dethroned.

If thats true I find it really weird. I find it really hard to do VMA with Arcanist. Any other class no problem.
Is there a trick I dont know about for Fatecarver and Dodging/Interrupting/Bracing ?

Jestir · January 24

Arcanist just needs some of its AOE DPS capabilities cut down, whether that is cutting some power out of flail and putting into runeblade and/or making fate carver do reduced damage past the first enemy or something similar, but the class plays/feels great and has been a huge success.

There is absolutely no reason to destroy the class in an attempt to "bring it in line", small changes to it and more importantly focusing on fixing what's wrong with classes like necromancer and no pet sorc should be the goal.

ceruulean · January 24

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

If thats true I find it really weird. I find it really hard to do VMA with Arcanist. Any other class no problem.
Is there a trick I dont know about for Fatecarver and Dodging/Interrupting/Bracing ?

Just cancel beam early and block, then restart. Or kite, don't stand toe to toe with melees. Use daggers for Quick Cloak. Daggers are meta because phenomenal damage and movement speed. Play stamina spec. Rotation is 3 buttons: Crux weaver and scholarship buff, flail > vigor > get hit > beam

OtarTheMad · January 24

Bleakz wrote: »

Arcanist just needs some of its AOE DPS capabilities cut down, whether that is cutting some power out of flail and putting into runeblade and/or making fate carver do reduced damage past the first enemy or something similar, but the class plays/feels great and has been a huge success.

There is absolutely no reason to destroy the class in an attempt to "bring it in line", small changes to it and more importantly focusing on fixing what's wrong with classes like necromancer and no pet sorc should be the goal.

I would agree with this if ZOS didn’t always over nerf. Soul trap, entropy, Necro Graverobber, Hrothgar’s Chill etc.

Example: they could move the execute and heal from Flail and put it on other abilities, maybe buff Runeblades a bit, reduce the shield a little on beam maybe but I don’t have a ton of faith in ZOS to just do some simple adjustments. When soul trap and entropy were over buffed they went from C tier abilities to S tier but were then nerfed down to D tier… bad choice by ZOS.

Uvi_AUT · January 24

ceruulean wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

If thats true I find it really weird. I find it really hard to do VMA with Arcanist. Any other class no problem.
Is there a trick I dont know about for Fatecarver and Dodging/Interrupting/Bracing ?

Just cancel beam early and block, then restart. Or kite, don't stand toe to toe with melees. Use daggers for Quick Cloak. Daggers are meta because phenomenal damage and movement speed. Play stamina spec. Rotation is 3 buttons: Crux weaver and scholarship buff, flail > vigor > get hit > beam

Youre basically describing normal gameplay.
But what makes the Arcanist better than any other class then? All others dont have to cancel their main spell for defense.

ceruulean · January 25

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

Youre basically describing normal gameplay.
But what makes the Arcanist better than any other class then? All others dont have to cancel their main spell for defense.

I dunno, go ask the tons of people who made an arcanist solely for the reason that it deals ranged cleave damage that can be adjusted on the fly, gets rewarded for getting hit, and doesn't have to waste a GCD to cast a 1k stamina costing 18k damage shield so it survives easier than other classes

For reference, most full HP TANK don't even have 18k tooltip on damage shields

Galeriano · January 25

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

deejayvee wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

Seriously Arcanists. How many times do you have to stop Midstream because you have to roll or Block.

It's almost like fatecarver has a downside to balance it...

Exactly. If you think of it thats a huge downside. Arcanist in real settings is not that great. 4,5 seconds without being able to react is a real pain in the rear.

It really isn't that big of a pain and huge downside. Pragmatic fatecarver is a morph designed specifically to offset majority of potential threats You will encounter while beaming. And if that wouldn't be enough arcanist kit have lots of passive defensive solutions that can also greatly boost Your defense and secure survival while beaming. It's also not like You can't just move outside of potential danger while beaming.

If arcanist would't be that great in real settings it wouldn't have around 50% of overall trial DD population in normal, veteran and hard modes. In reality You can more often than not freely cast the beam and You are equipped with tools that will allow You to cast it even while under pressure so at the end the amount of beams that will be interrupted because of the need to dodge or block will be miniscule percentage. And even when You need to stop beaming because You have to roll or block Your overall DPS loss in whole fight will be barely noticable.

Arcanist is the easiest and the strongest class at the moment in majority of real settings with plenty of statistics to prove it.

Dont trust any statistic you havent personally falsified.
Jokes aside I dont deny in a perfect setting like a Trial Arcanist is Top Dog at the moment.
But solo Fatecarver doesnt protect you from Knockbacks, Stuns, Interrupts and all the neat little things mobs do every 2 seconds in VMA or EA.
Just think how often you roll out of something or interrupt some spell. All this would interrupt Fatecarver, remove the Shield, seriously Tank your DPS and the Healing from Pale Order or the Proccs of Iceheart.

In PvP you literally cant use Fatecarver, which means youre stuck with a Char that cant use his defining ability. And all the other are mediocre at best.

Again, not denying how good Arcanist is in organized Trials. But its mediocre at best everywhere else.

As for difficulty. All Chars besides Necromancer are equally easy to use. And that one is just harder because of clunky mechanics (BB-Tracking, CorpseTethers and unreliable aimingsystems).

Ok it looks to me like You're not fully understanding arcanist class.

First of all I wouldn't be making jokes about ESO logs statistics because they are pretty valid due to amount of data collected. You just need to know how to navigate on the website.

Arcanist is not just good in perfect trial setting it's the best in any trial setting this is why I mentioned hard modes, veteran and normal trials. You don't see overwhelming amount people going with fully optimised teams into normal or even veteran trials it's happening mostly in hard modes but despite that arcanist dominates in popularity in every difficulty mode.

Yes fatecarver doesn't protect You from knockback or stuns. It protects You from regular interrupts though if You go with pragmatic fatecarver. But even stuns and knockbacks are not an issue at all. Even if You get interrupted You just break free cast 2-3 flails and cast fatecarver again now with immunity to interrupt that You got from breaking free. You are really shooting Yourself in the foot by bringing up maelstrom and vateshran since arcanist dominates currently in both of them almost shaming other classes. Amount of things arcanist have allows him to just burn through those mobs You are mentioning. He can passively immobilize them, snare them, tank their damage while burning then in 1-2 seconds.

With pragmatic fatevcarver shield on, You don't need to roll out of something as often as other classes have to. You just face tank it. Anything that will not hit You for 50k+ in 1-2 seconds is not an issue for arcanist. Realistically You will have to stop Your fatecarver not that often and even if You stop it it's not like You've lost all its dmg, most of mobs in these arenasd don't even require full beam to be casted on them, You can kill one mob than turn around and finish other mob with the same beam.

Yes fatevcarver is not as good in PvP as it is in PvE because players can react to someone beaming so You won;t see beam spamming that often. That being said in a group PvP one properly used beam can screw whole enemy team pretty bad.

Arcanist is not mediocre everywhere else outside of organised trials. PvE wise it's a top dog almost everywhere no matter the difficulty or organisation.

As for difficulty not all classes are equally difficult. Arcanist is by far the easiest class. You have easy sustain due to how low cost of beam is, You have plenty of time to plan Your next moves while beaming, Your rotation is pretty straight forward since overwhelming core of it is just stacking crux and beaming and Your class mini game is pretty easy to keep up plus You are not required to LA weave that good. Classes like nb or sorc are the most difficult due to highly dynamic rotation with stack based minigames that require perfect LA weaving.

Galeriano · January 25

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

Arcanists have the highest vMA scores, and some of the most entries and attempts (which means a lot of people are clearing vMA on arcanist because they can't or won't clear with any other class). It used to be sorc that was the easy mode vMA class but now it's dethroned.

If thats true I find it really weird. I find it really hard to do VMA with Arcanist. Any other class no problem.
Is there a trick I dont know about for Fatecarver and Dodging/Interrupting/Bracing ?

I would guess Your setup have some mistakes in it. Properly built arcanist is a cake walk in vMA and vet vateshran. Arcanist's toolkit is packed like crazy when it comes to passive defense. And since You only need 3 or 4 abilities to be highly effective at dealing dmg (blockade, flail, beam and tome bearer's inspiration), You have plenty of bar space to slot other things.

Soldier of apocrypha tree is almost broken when it comes to solo play. You have for example runic sunder that will give You 2,2k penetration on enemy buffing Your offense but will also give You 2,2k resistances, 2% dmg reduction for each crux active and will apply minor main to enemy. Then You have cruxweaver armor which is a nice ability because it applies major resolve but also charges crux passively while taking dmg which benefits Your whole kit in solo content. You have runic defense that gives You minor resolve and minor protection and both morphs of it are also defensively beneficial. Runic defense and cruxweaver armor are also passively responsible for keeping aegis of the unseen passive always up so this is 2k additional resistances. All mentioned abilities will work while You are casting beam. Runic defense will even passively heal You up if You take too much dmg while beaming. Than You have runespite ward if You want extra security and both morphs of it are really nice and sanctum of the abyssal sea ultimate which is basically 2nd best ultimate after DK's magma armor when it comes to survivability. You can slot some ability from healing tree to activate passive that will make Your shields cheaper and stronger and that includes Your ultimate. You also get minor evasion passively and You can slot for example quick cloak so You will have acces to both minor and major evasion making AoE dmg You take almost non existant. You want more defense? You can slot ice staff on the back bar and blockade will be providing You with a shield that absorbs projectiles.

And You have space for all of this abilities since like I've said earlier to burn through all the mobs and bosses You really only need 3 or 4 core abilities. And than You have pragmatic fatecarver that adds like 20k shield on top of it all. This 20k shield means that to die while beaming You will have to take 50k+ dmg one shot which won't be that easy considering how much resistances and dmg reduction You have. At that point You are almost a tank and You are still dealing tons of dmg. Where other classes needs to dodge or block You can just facetank something while beaming it. You don;t even have to worry about stuns that much, You just get up use like 2 flails and beam again. You also have enough sustain for all of this because beam is ultra cheap compared to other spammables and arcanist have lots of strong sustain passives. Properly built arcanist will carry You through almost everything.

Uvi_AUT · January 25

Galeriano wrote: »

snip

Thanks, I will try that! It just seems like a lot of extra steps when I can just play Necro or Warden and fire and forget Blastbones/Scorch and wait for everything to die while still being able to evade/block.

Galeriano · January 25

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

snip

Thanks, I will try that! It just seems like a lot of extra steps when I can just play Necro or Warden and fire and forget Blastbones/Scorch and wait for everything to die while still being able to evade/block.

I just mentioned all things that class allows You to have, realistically You don't need majority of them since 90% of fights in those arenas will be pure melt of everything with beam.

Me personally for majority of time I was not taking care for any defensive buffs. I was usually recasting cruxweaver and quick cloak inbetween rounds. Everything was just melting before it was able to do anything to me. Many tash packs and bosses was dying within 1 beam duration.

sneakymitchell · January 26

Meh. I don’t know. Class is easy brain dead like some other classes. Templar. Just jab jab and beam

Galeriano · January 26

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Sure, in PvP they can be tanky but some of that is because of some sort of exploit or bug where players health just stop going down... which I believe is still a thing right now. Also, the meta players are using MDW, Maarselok, Vateshran etc. which does like 75% of the damage for you which skews opinions.

That is pure misinformation. Arcanist tankiness have nothing to do with any imaginary exploits or bugs casuing players HP to stop going down. That thing is just a regular desync and if it would exist as a bug/exploit everyone would notice increased levels of tankiness not just arcanists.

Arcanist tankiness comes down pretty much to one overpowered ability being in the centre of it and that ability is Impervious Runeward. This is by far the strongest non ultimate defensive ability that ever existed in the game. It's basically 3 defensive abilities combined in one. It's equavalent of casting 2 shields and a heal at the same time. Nothing comes close to it. Fact that increased shield value lasts for 1 second and heal requires a crux really doesn't change anything since when arcanist goes down in health he'll be just spamming that ability while HoTs like vigor and heals from passive crux stacks are healing him underneath shield. Than You can add all the other crazy good defensive options arcanists have in soldier of apocrypha tree and You have extra tanky class. Literally every ability in soldier of apocrypha skill line is just loaded with good stuff. The only reason why arcanist is not a top dog in PvP right now is because ZoS made one reasonable decision to not give this class delayed burst ability.

francesinhalover · January 26

Dubhliam wrote: »

Let's face it, it is inevitable.
Everybody knows Arcanist is overperforming, and the nerf hammer will come either with the new dungeon DLC or chapter.

I personally love the playstyle of the class, and think that it is beneficial for the game to have an "easy" class that can perform well, without the need to farm specific sets and mythics to be viable (looking at you Oakensorc).

The problem occurs when this easy class outperforms other classes that are way harder to play.

So, let's try to identify exactly what makes Arcanist so powerful.

In my opinion, there are only two nerfs that need to happen to bring Arcanist a little bit out of the OP realm:
1. Reduce the AoE capabilities of Fatecarver.
This skill is the bread and butter of this class, and I think it is a good idea to keep it powerful, since there is a mini game going on around it. However, the AoE potential is too powerful. I think it shoud behave similar to Templar's Puncturing Strikes- dealing half[insert %] damage to all targets beyond the first one.
2. Nerf Cephaliarch's Flail
Nerf it!
NERF IT NERF IT NERF IT!
This single skill is packed to the brim with stuff other classes can only dream about, and all that after the fact that this skill is a core part of an Arcanist's arsenal, being the Crux generator it is.
Let's get over this skill, and what it does:
-it is a powerful direct damage AoE
-it is an exectue below 50%
-it debuffs targets with a unique 5% damage debuff
-it is a powerful self heal that heals even if no targets were hit
-it is an AoE root
-it generates Crux, as mentioned

Basically, the whole "balance" discussion for Arcanist can be boiled down to "what are we going to do about Flail?"

In my opinion, the solution should be somewhere along the lines of:
-remove the immobilize from the base skill
-remove the damage capabilities of this morph, let it remain a Crux generator and a self heal
-grant the damage capabilities and immobilize to Tentacular Dread, the Crux spending morph

This should make Arcanist players lose some of the damage, while retaining the heal and utility of Flail, or choose to go the damage route, but lose the utility of the skill, forcing them to use Runeblades for generating Crux.

Honestly, Arcanist has a powerful single target damage skill that generates Crux that nobody uses.
Because it sucks compared to Flail.

Arcanist is a fun class to play, but seriously devs, what were you thinking with Flail?

No just no.
leave arcanist alone. Rework other classes if needed.
ughhhh pvp.

Galeriano · January 26

francesinhalover wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Let's face it, it is inevitable.
Everybody knows Arcanist is overperforming, and the nerf hammer will come either with the new dungeon DLC or chapter.

I personally love the playstyle of the class, and think that it is beneficial for the game to have an "easy" class that can perform well, without the need to farm specific sets and mythics to be viable (looking at you Oakensorc).

The problem occurs when this easy class outperforms other classes that are way harder to play.

So, let's try to identify exactly what makes Arcanist so powerful.

In my opinion, there are only two nerfs that need to happen to bring Arcanist a little bit out of the OP realm:
1. Reduce the AoE capabilities of Fatecarver.
This skill is the bread and butter of this class, and I think it is a good idea to keep it powerful, since there is a mini game going on around it. However, the AoE potential is too powerful. I think it shoud behave similar to Templar's Puncturing Strikes- dealing half[insert %] damage to all targets beyond the first one.
2. Nerf Cephaliarch's Flail
Nerf it!
NERF IT NERF IT NERF IT!
This single skill is packed to the brim with stuff other classes can only dream about, and all that after the fact that this skill is a core part of an Arcanist's arsenal, being the Crux generator it is.
Let's get over this skill, and what it does:
-it is a powerful direct damage AoE
-it is an exectue below 50%
-it debuffs targets with a unique 5% damage debuff
-it is a powerful self heal that heals even if no targets were hit
-it is an AoE root
-it generates Crux, as mentioned

Basically, the whole "balance" discussion for Arcanist can be boiled down to "what are we going to do about Flail?"

In my opinion, the solution should be somewhere along the lines of:
-remove the immobilize from the base skill
-remove the damage capabilities of this morph, let it remain a Crux generator and a self heal
-grant the damage capabilities and immobilize to Tentacular Dread, the Crux spending morph

This should make Arcanist players lose some of the damage, while retaining the heal and utility of Flail, or choose to go the damage route, but lose the utility of the skill, forcing them to use Runeblades for generating Crux.

Honestly, Arcanist has a powerful single target damage skill that generates Crux that nobody uses.
Because it sucks compared to Flail.

Arcanist is a fun class to play, but seriously devs, what were you thinking with Flail?

No just no.
leave arcanist alone. Rework other classes if needed.
ughhhh pvp.

Reworking other classes to match strenght of arcanist will just increase overall power creep to the point soon after ZoS will have to introduce nerfs accros the board. If one class is overperforming You don't bring others to its level You bring it down to the level of others.

Like it or not arcanist needs to be nerfed.

OtarTheMad · January 26

francesinhalover wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Let's face it, it is inevitable.
Everybody knows Arcanist is overperforming, and the nerf hammer will come either with the new dungeon DLC or chapter.

I personally love the playstyle of the class, and think that it is beneficial for the game to have an "easy" class that can perform well, without the need to farm specific sets and mythics to be viable (looking at you Oakensorc).

The problem occurs when this easy class outperforms other classes that are way harder to play.

So, let's try to identify exactly what makes Arcanist so powerful.

In my opinion, there are only two nerfs that need to happen to bring Arcanist a little bit out of the OP realm:
1. Reduce the AoE capabilities of Fatecarver.
This skill is the bread and butter of this class, and I think it is a good idea to keep it powerful, since there is a mini game going on around it. However, the AoE potential is too powerful. I think it shoud behave similar to Templar's Puncturing Strikes- dealing half[insert %] damage to all targets beyond the first one.
2. Nerf Cephaliarch's Flail
Nerf it!
NERF IT NERF IT NERF IT!
This single skill is packed to the brim with stuff other classes can only dream about, and all that after the fact that this skill is a core part of an Arcanist's arsenal, being the Crux generator it is.
Let's get over this skill, and what it does:
-it is a powerful direct damage AoE
-it is an exectue below 50%
-it debuffs targets with a unique 5% damage debuff
-it is a powerful self heal that heals even if no targets were hit
-it is an AoE root
-it generates Crux, as mentioned

Basically, the whole "balance" discussion for Arcanist can be boiled down to "what are we going to do about Flail?"

In my opinion, the solution should be somewhere along the lines of:
-remove the immobilize from the base skill
-remove the damage capabilities of this morph, let it remain a Crux generator and a self heal
-grant the damage capabilities and immobilize to Tentacular Dread, the Crux spending morph

This should make Arcanist players lose some of the damage, while retaining the heal and utility of Flail, or choose to go the damage route, but lose the utility of the skill, forcing them to use Runeblades for generating Crux.

Honestly, Arcanist has a powerful single target damage skill that generates Crux that nobody uses.
Because it sucks compared to Flail.

Arcanist is a fun class to play, but seriously devs, what were you thinking with Flail?

No just no.
leave arcanist alone. Rework other classes if needed.
ughhhh pvp.

I agree with this to a point. Flail is over stacked, I suggest moving the heal and execute to other abilities. That ability and Gibbering Shield should be looked at and toned down. Now if ZOS could just learn to make small adjusts vs huge nerfs.

About reworking other classes, that’s what I’ve been saying. When I look at DK and Arcanist, two classes that I find a lot more fun than my main Magcro, they both have something in common and that’s every class skill has a purpose in some way. Whether that’s damage or tanking or healing whatever… they are all slottable abilities. So, do that with other classes, make every skill worth it, fill in some holes other classes have and see how that affects things. I think it’ll give people more options which is good.

Example: for Sorc I would suggest making Daedric Mines work like it did before, make pets only needed on one bar and do something with liquid lightning and it’s morph so it’s not so blah.

Another is my Necromancer. Make skulls faster, put a DoT on BB, do something with tethers, change Empowering Grasp maybe to a DoT, fix fear totem and see where the class is at.