Studio Director’s Letter: ESO’s 2023 Retrospective & the Future

Syldras

The only thing I find interesting about these end-of-year letters is what seems to be a cultural difference between the US and the place where I live: Here, no one takes excessive marketing drivel seriously, and self-praise is seen as a character flaw. So no one would actually approve of that, quite the opposite.

That said, this sounds indeed bad, if it really has a meaning:

"ESO is always about great storytelling, so we won’t abandon story quests and content, but we will balance it out with more systems like dungeons, trials, and special new content like Infinite Archive."

Reducing story content even more, after it has already been cut short in 2023? Not sure if they're doing themselves a favor with that.

lillybit

Syldras wrote: »

The only thing I find interesting about these end-of-year letters is what seems to be a cultural difference between the US and the place where I live: Here, no one takes excessive marketing drivel seriously, and self-praise is seen as a character flaw. So no one would actually approve of that, quite the opposite.

That said, this sounds indeed bad, if it really has a meaning:

"ESO is always about great storytelling, so we won’t abandon story quests and content, but we will balance it out with more systems like dungeons, trials, and special new content like Infinite Archive."

Reducing story content even more, after it has already been cut short in 2023? Not sure if they're doing themselves a favor with that.

"We're concerned about running out of space before we've bled the cash cow dry, so there will only be 1 expensive new zone a year now, with the q4 update staying a new system few people have any interest in instead"

Syldras

lillybit wrote: »

"We're concerned about running out of space before we've bled the cash cow dry, so there will only be 1 expensive new zone a year now, with the q4 update staying a new system few people have any interest in instead"

I'm thinking for a while now that it's about throwing out content to keep people busy, while reducing costs and efforts. I mean, story content requires a lot of work, more people are involved, you need people to write dialogues, you need to hire voice actors. The Archive, on the other hand, has very few lines of dialogue, almost no story, almost no new enemies or friendly npcs - it's largely asset recycling. Yes, there are new mechanics, a few new maps/backdrops, I'm not saying there's nothing new at all. But compared to a story dlc, it's much cheaper to produce.

Muizer

Syldras wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

"We're concerned about running out of space before we've bled the cash cow dry, so there will only be 1 expensive new zone a year now, with the q4 update staying a new system few people have any interest in instead"

I'm thinking for a while now that it's about throwing out content to keep people busy, while reducing costs and efforts. I mean, story content requires a lot of work, more people are involved, you need people to write dialogues, you need to hire voice actors. The Archive, on the other hand, has very few lines of dialogue, almost no story, almost no new enemies or friendly npcs - it's largely asset recycling. Yes, there are new mechanics, a few new maps/backdrops, I'm not saying there's nothing new at all. But compared to a story dlc, it's much cheaper to produce.

That's a possible interpretation, but not the only one. As the game ages, new players entering will have years and years of story content to play through as it is. At the other end , there's going to be steady loss of interest in story content from veterans of the game who want something different. It may be inevitable that these demographics will grow at the expense of those whose interest depends on yearly new story content.

Syldras

Muizer wrote: »

That's a possible interpretation, but not the only one. As the game ages, new players entering will have years and years of story content to play through as it is. At the other end , there's going to be steady loss of interest in story content from veterans of the game who want something different. It may be inevitable that these demographics will grow at the expense of those whose interest depends on yearly new story content.

I personally don't think players who are interested in questing and stories suddenly lose interest in them just because they're active for a longer time (there might be other reasons, like bad writing quality...). I mean, people don't lose interests in reading or watching tv shows just because they've already done that in the past, do they?

I think it's more that there are different "types" of players. There's a demographic who's here mainly for the lore and stories, and another one who doesn't care much for that at all, some even click away dialogues without reading or listening to them, or don't quest at all (and, of course, there are also many players somewhere inbetween those extremes). Not really caring for the stories is a pity, in my opinion, because TES lore is awesome and its complexity alone is already outstanding, but, well, it's none of my business how other people spend their free time.

So, yes, I understand that content creation has to be balanced to appeal to different player types (although ZOS honestly is not good at that, if I consider how the PvPers rarely get anything new), but I'm still not sure if reducing story content even more is the balancing that is needed. Of course it's just my personal opinion, but I'm one of the TES lore fans here (I'm doing other things in ESO too, but I'm really mainly here because I love TES lore), so only one new story addition per year that's played through in maybe 50 hours, doesn't seem much to me. Repeatable content without much narration or lore is valid in itself, of course, but it's not a suitable replacement for that.

Btw, another official "argument" for reducing new story content e.g. removing the yearly Q4 story DLC (I think it was in the December 2022 letter?) was that there was so much story content already, new players would have enough quests to do anyway, no, they might even experience a "fear of missing out" if there's too much to do and they can't keep up with that. Doesn't make sense to me, to be honest. I understand that there are completionists who might feel this way, but - to revisit the comparison I made above - people don't stop writing books or producing movies just because millions of them exist already.

Braffin

Syldras wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

That's a possible interpretation, but not the only one. As the game ages, new players entering will have years and years of story content to play through as it is. At the other end , there's going to be steady loss of interest in story content from veterans of the game who want something different. It may be inevitable that these demographics will grow at the expense of those whose interest depends on yearly new story content.

I personally don't think players who are interested in questing and stories suddenly lose interest in them just because they're active for a longer time (there might be other reasons, like bad writing quality...). I mean, people don't lose interests in reading or watching tv shows just because they've already done that in the past, do they?

I think it's more that there are different "types" of players. There's a demographic who's here mainly for the lore and stories, and another one who doesn't care much for that at all, some even click away dialogues without reading or listening to them, or don't quest at all (and, of course, there are also many players somewhere inbetween those extremes). Not really caring for the stories is a pity, in my opinion, because TES lore is awesome and its complexity alone is already outstanding, but, well, it's none of my business how other people spend their free time.

So, yes, I understand that content creation has to be balanced to appeal to different player types (although ZOS honestly is not good at that, if I consider how the PvPers rarely get anything new), but I'm still not sure if reducing story content even more is the balancing that is needed. Of course it's just my personal opinion, but I'm one of the TES lore fans here (I'm doing other things in ESO too, but I'm really mainly here because I love TES lore), so only one new story addition per year that's played through in maybe 50 hours, doesn't seem much to me. Repeatable content without much narration or lore is valid in itself, of course, but it's not a suitable replacement for that.

Btw, another official "argument" for reducing new story content e.g. removing the yearly Q4 story DLC (I think it was in the December 2022 letter?) was that there was so much story content already, new players would have enough quests to do anyway, no, they might even experience a "fear of missing out" if there's too much to do and they can't keep up with that. Doesn't make sense to me, to be honest. I understand that there are completionists who might feel this way, but - to revisit the comparison I made above - people don't stop writing books or producing movies just because millions of them exist already.

I don't think there are many players not interested at all in lore and story. At least it's my impression, that most people interested in meaningful gameplay and combat are also eager to experience the stories and dive into the lore of tes.

There are definitely "types" of players tho: Some prefer experiencing the stories without meaningful gameplay and as easy combat as possible, while others want the latter elements mixed into the former.

Now zos made the unfortunate decision, that stories come only in easy mode and catered mainly to the first group for several years while alienating the second.

This lead to the following scenario: Newer players have 10 years worth of story content anyways and don't necessarily care for another addition yet. The faction interested in more meaningful gameplay is increasingly stopping with doing story content (for example I don't even started necrom storyline besides being a lore fanatic since tes 3 because I don't want to play a telltale.) and asking for change. The group which is fine with overland difficulty wants things to go on as usual, preferably without any changes.

The result is a cut Q4 story dlc and the respective development resources are used for more gameplay-oriented content like IA.

Is this the optimal outcome? I for myself don't think so. But as balancing story and gameplay equally (by adding difficulty options to the former) is seemingly out of the question, I see no other route to solve this issue.

Syldras

Braffin wrote: »

I don't think there are many players not interested at all in lore and story. At least it's my impression, that most people interested in meaningful gameplay and combat are also eager to experience the stories and dive into the lore of tes.

Hard to say, and there's no official statistics about how many people quest - and even if there were, it wouldn't be clear what their motives are and how much they actually enjoy it. I've come across people, but of course that's not more than personal anecdotes, who actually wrote things like "I don't quest, if I wanted a narration, I'd go to the cinema and watch a movie!" - How common that is? I have no clue. And then there's people who solely PvP, or some who are mainly achievement hunters. With several millions of players, there are all kind of types.

Braffin wrote: »

There are definitely "types" of players tho: Some prefer experiencing the stories without meaningful gameplay and as easy combat as possible, while others want the latter elements mixed into the former.

Is that so? I don't know. I've just personally rarely seen people say they wanted quest content to be extremely easy, but many complaints about boss fights not feeling meaningful because quest bosses are dead after 2 seconds (which is also immersion breaking, so it's a flaw also for story- and roleplay-focussed players).

Braffin wrote: »

The faction interested in more meaningful gameplay is increasingly stopping with doing story content (for example I don't even started necrom storyline besides being a lore fanatic since tes 3 because I don't want to play a telltale.) and asking for change.

I still play it, it's still entertaining enough for me, if I consider it something like an interactive narration with a bit of running and fighting inbetween. What doesn't mean I wouldn't welcome a difficulty increasement.

Braffin wrote: »

But as balancing story and gameplay equally (by adding difficulty options to the former) is seemingly out of the question, I see no other route to solve this issue.

Why is it out of the question, though? It would seem a much more reasonable solution than what ZOS is doing now.

Elsonso

Syldras wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

That's a possible interpretation, but not the only one. As the game ages, new players entering will have years and years of story content to play through as it is. At the other end , there's going to be steady loss of interest in story content from veterans of the game who want something different. It may be inevitable that these demographics will grow at the expense of those whose interest depends on yearly new story content.

I personally don't think players who are interested in questing and stories suddenly lose interest in them just because they're active for a longer time (there might be other reasons, like bad writing quality...). I mean, people don't lose interests in reading or watching tv shows just because they've already done that in the past, do they?

I think it's more that there are different "types" of players. There's a demographic who's here mainly for the lore and stories, and another one who doesn't care much for that at all, some even click away dialogues without reading or listening to them, or don't quest at all (and, of course, there are also many players somewhere inbetween those extremes). Not really caring for the stories is a pity, in my opinion, because TES lore is awesome and its complexity alone is already outstanding, but, well, it's none of my business how other people spend their free time.

So, yes, I understand that content creation has to be balanced to appeal to different player types (although ZOS honestly is not good at that, if I consider how the PvPers rarely get anything new), but I'm still not sure if reducing story content even more is the balancing that is needed. Of course it's just my personal opinion, but I'm one of the TES lore fans here (I'm doing other things in ESO too, but I'm really mainly here because I love TES lore), so only one new story addition per year that's played through in maybe 50 hours, doesn't seem much to me. Repeatable content without much narration or lore is valid in itself, of course, but it's not a suitable replacement for that.

Btw, another official "argument" for reducing new story content e.g. removing the yearly Q4 story DLC (I think it was in the December 2022 letter?) was that there was so much story content already, new players would have enough quests to do anyway, no, they might even experience a "fear of missing out" if there's too much to do and they can't keep up with that. Doesn't make sense to me, to be honest. I understand that there are completionists who might feel this way, but - to revisit the comparison I made above - people don't stop writing books or producing movies just because millions of them exist already.

Elder Scrolls is about story and lore, and above everything else, this is intended to be an Elder Scrolls game. For me, that is what separates it from a lot of the other multiplayer games. There are certainly other MMORPGs with stories and lore, but I happen to like the Elder Scrolls lore and connect with it much easier than other games.

If they step back from that, it starts to become just a combat MMO, in a field full of combat MMOs. Boooooring. (must say that in the voice of Sheo) Yeah, they have a bazillion hours of story content already in the game, but without new content, there isn't much reason for me to stick around. This is currently the best Elder Scrolls game out there, and that is largely because they keep moving forward with new stories, not new combat experiences.

As it turned out, 2023 was a phenomenal year for games. Not so much for ESO, as ZOS was on the sidelines a lot more than previous years, but they managed to release out Necrom and Infinite Archives at a point during the year when things elsewhere were on cool down. Still, the fact that ZOS was not fully engaging with new story content this year, and other studios were, allowed me to spend a lot more time and attention on other games.

Infinite Archive was content that sounded cool, but based on the first month numbers they published, I don't think it was the big splash for 2023. The arena is rather long content, and having 250,000 hours/megaserver in the first month seems low to me for brand new content. I am curious as to how that stacks against participation in events.

It was Necrom, the story Chapter, that seemed to get the most attention, being recognized for Arcanist and as being the best MMO DLC in 2023 in one ranking. After Greymoor and Blackwood, it was nice to see High Isle last year and Necrom this year.

What I get out of the letter is that they liked the path they started in 2023 and want to continue on it. I considered 2023 to be a "pause" for the game while they regrouped. I did not expect them to plant a flag, and maybe they didn't. I guess we'll see what ZOS has cooking for this year when they do the reveal later this month.

(Edit: words got deleted accidentally)

Braffin

Syldras wrote: »

Why is it out of the question, though? It would seem a much more reasonable solution than what ZOS is doing now.

I agree, but every visit of the "overland difficulty discussion thread" remembers me how adamantly some people oppose this solution.

And zos themselves is trying to address the problem by adding content like nymics and IA (according to official statements), instead of doing the obvious thing, which were to add proper difficulty options to story content (especially veteran overland and story dungeons, trials are somewhat trickier to do).

Syldras

Braffin wrote: »

I agree, but every visit of the "overland difficulty discussion thread" remembers me how adamantly some people oppose this solution.
And zos themselves is trying to address the problem by adding content like nymics and IA (according to official statements), instead of doing the obvious thing, which were to add proper difficulty options to story content (especially veteran overland and story dungeons, trials are somewhat trickier to do).

Very strange. I really can't understand how people can be against different difficulty modes! Everyone would profit from that.

Elsonso wrote: »

Elder Scrolls is about story and lore, and above everything else, this is intended to be an Elder Scrolls game. For me, that is what separates it from a lot of the other multiplayer games. There are certainly other MMORPGs with stories and lore, but I happen to like the Elder Scrolls lore and connect with it much easier than other games.
If they step back from that, it starts to become just a combat MMO, in a field full of combat MMOs. Boooooring. (must say that in the voice of Sheo)

I couldn't agree more! I wish ZOS would realize that (or maybe they do, but I don't have the impression they act accodingly). TES is an extremely strong franchise, there's such a wonderful already established lore, that's the big one factor that could make ESO stand out from the rest. If I was the one in charge, I'd make use of that. What doesn't mean other game aspects should be ignored, of course not, but reducing story content, the thing that makes this game specific, seems like a rather bad idea to me.

Elsonso wrote: »

Yeah, they have a bazillion hours of story content already in the game, but without new content, there isn't much reason for me to stick around.

Sadly, yes. I've been running around in the Archive for a while, but already now, I'm, personally, bored by it. It's just always the same. The environment looks impressive in the beginning, but after the 30th or 50th run, you don't look closely anymore. The watchlings commenting during the fights - cute, but it's always the same lines, so sooner or later it's just a background noise. Even if they add new backgrounds over the years and include bosses from the new chapters and dungeons too, or new mechanics or verses, well, it's still the same principle all the time. Some people might like it, and that's fine. But for me, it's too repetative. Just fighting alone, without a narration linked to it (yes, I know, Thoat...) just doesn't do it for me. Of course, that's a personal opinion and other people may enjoy it.

GooGa592

Syldras wrote: »

The only thing I find interesting about these end-of-year letters is what seems to be a cultural difference between the US and the place where I live: Here, no one takes excessive marketing drivel seriously, and self-praise is seen as a character flaw. So no one would actually approve of that, quite the opposite.

That said, this sounds indeed bad, if it really has a meaning:

"ESO is always about great storytelling, so we won’t abandon story quests and content, but we will balance it out with more systems like dungeons, trials, and special new content like Infinite Archive."

Reducing story content even more, after it has already been cut short in 2023? Not sure if they're doing themselves a favor with that.

They've been divesting in PvP since 2018, so the PvE crowd should consider themselves ZOS's favorite child.

Syldras

GooGa592 wrote: »

They've been divesting in PvP since 2018, so the PvE crowd should consider themselves ZOS's favorite child.

Well, I've written this in this thread, just a few posts below the one you quoted from me:

Syldras wrote: »

I understand that content creation has to be balanced to appeal to different player types (although ZOS honestly is not good at that, if I consider how the PvPers rarely get anything new)

PvEers might be better off than PvPers, but the solution isn't to reduce PvE content just the same. Plus, I'm quite sure that the reduction of story content won't help you as a PvPer in any way.

twev

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

For some reason what I got out of the letter was....

"were not going to cut story completely out but our focus is going to be on Raids/PVP and other group content."

Which to me is basically asking me to find another game

They havent added to pvp in 5 years... They make no mention of adding to it. I honestly dont see where you are getting that from. Eso is heavily balanced towards story content objectively and statistically. Archive is a historic anomaly as far as devoting a full quarter to anything pve group related. Usually its a couple dugeons and one new trial a year. Beyond that its always been new zones and overworld content.

I think that One Tamriel and Account Wide Achievements pretty much kneecapped the concept of emphasis and continuity of any kind of adherence to storyline, especially for new players that aren't started anywhere near the beginning of the default or global storylines.
There's no guidance or encouragement to start at the beginning, it's just a big push to sell the newest DLC chapters, and new players are just left to their own devices when they opt to jump into the game in whatever random chapter choices they are presented now that have little or no connection to the start of the plot of the game.

I've bought the game for several friends in the past year, and after character creation they have the option to start anywhere with no idea what world introduction they miss and then they comment that the game is confusing, they aren't even aware of plotline history. Sure, many new players want to play 'the newest chapter they got as part of the package', probably because 'newest is better', but without the initial intros many of us got at launch - the game ends up being a mixed up mess.

edit: fixed a few glaring syntax errors I missed.

Elsonso

twev wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

For some reason what I got out of the letter was....

"were not going to cut story completely out but our focus is going to be on Raids/PVP and other group content."

Which to me is basically asking me to find another game

They havent added to pvp in 5 years... They make no mention of adding to it. I honestly dont see where you are getting that from. Eso is heavily balanced towards story content objectively and statistically. Archive is a historic anomaly as far as devoting a full quarter to anything pve group related. Usually its a couple dugeons and one new trial a year. Beyond that its always been new zones and overworld content.

I think that One Tamriel and Account Wide Achievements pretty much kneecapped the concept of emphasis and continuity of any kind of adherence to storyline, especially for new players that aren't started anywhere near the beginning of the default or global storylines.
There's no guidance or encouragement to start at the beginning, it's just a big push to sell the newest DLC chapters, and new players are just left to their own devices when they opt to jump into the game in whatever random chapter choices they are presented now that have little or no connection to the start of the plot of the game.

I've bought the game for several friends in the past year, and after character creation they have the option to start anywhere with no idea what world introduction they miss and then they comment that the game is confusing, they aren't even aware of plotline history. Sure, many new players want to play 'the newest chapter they got as part of the package', probably because 'newest is better', but without the initial intros many of us got at launch - the game ends up being a mixed up mess.

edit: fixed a few glaring syntax errors I missed.

It is rather sad when looking back over everything. There are so many stories, but the pages are all jumbled up. Readers are told that they can read them in any order, but they aren't really written to be read in any order. It doesn't really work. Players need to be told what order to play the game by other players. I think that when that happens, and they can avoid being distracted by the latest shiny, the stories work very well.

Syldras

Elsonso wrote: »

It is rather sad when looking back over everything. There are so many stories, but the pages are all jumbled up. Readers are told that they can read them in any order, but they aren't really written to be read in any order. It doesn't really work.

Yes, it's muddled up anyway, but still, they shy away from real story progressions that make a bigger impact (it's even still 2E582 - must have been an awful year for Tamriel, with the Planemeld, dragons, vampires and all other threats potentially destroying Nirn), there's not even a character development for recurrent npcs, maybe something happens to them within a quest (or storyline), but in the end, they're fine and everything is back at start.

ADarklore

While I think it would be a step backwards for ZOS to start reducing Quest content, as someone mentioned, there is 10 years of quest content- and that can seem overwhelming to new players and even vets like myself. Having just created a new character, I'm now faced with 10 years of quest content- much of which I have yet to finish due to my penchant for creating/deleting characters. So in a way I can see how they'd want to scale back a bit given how much questing is already in the game, however, they also need to realize that this game has a reputation for it's quest-related content... so cutting back on their selling point is not a good long-term strategy.

That being said, IMO I still think they need to add quest-related content TWICE per year, as they had previously. Just because they got a pass last year for the 'bug-fixing' quarter, doesn't mean they should be doing this every year. However, they have the data showing how many players are completing trials, dungeons, etc... I don't... so they would know what content is most currently popular.

Elsonso

ADarklore wrote: »

That being said, IMO I still think they need to add quest-related content TWICE per year, as they had previously. Just because they got a pass last year for the 'bug-fixing' quarter, doesn't mean they should be doing this every year. However, they have the data showing how many players are completing trials, dungeons, etc... I don't... so they would know what content is most currently popular.

XBox says that 45% did Soul Shriven (Chapter 1), but half of them, only 23%, have done the next step (Chapter 1.5). Only 6% made it all the way to Level 50 and spent that first Champion Point. At least, on XBox.

It would be interesting to know what the 6% of us are doing in the game.

Syldras

ADarklore wrote: »

While I think it would be a step backwards for ZOS to start reducing Quest content, as someone mentioned, there is 10 years of quest content- and that can seem overwhelming to new players and even vets like myself. Having just created a new character, I'm now faced with 10 years of quest content- much of which I have yet to finish due to my penchant for creating/deleting characters.

Well, of course someone who stops reading after the first or second chapter of a novel to turn back to page 1 and restart from there will never reach the end of the story. That doesn't mean the story is too long though, neither that there shouldn't be any sequels to the book.

I just wanted to write that for someone who plays ESO (almost) since the beginning, relies mostly on one main character, and had all base game quests finished before the first "chapter" was released, one new story addition per year with officially 30 hours of content (I think; correct me, if I'm wrong) isn't that much. That's finished within 2 weeks, and I'm not even someone who plays a lot, with currently about 2 hours per evening (I think that's below average, at least for the people here at the forums).

Then I realized: Wait a moment - the amount of new story content is, obviously, the same for everyone! It's 30 hours of content, no matter if for newbies or for vets. So the amount of quests might look huge, maybe because we have this world map and chapters looking like huge portions of land, being whole countries or bigger regions (while riding the main road from the South coast of Auridon to the Northern coast takes less than 10 minutes and most maps aren't much bigger) - but 30 hours is 30 hours.

If someone plays only 1 hour per day, they've finished one whole chapter within one month, and one story dlc (that had 15 hours, I believe) in 2 weeks. So if we count together all current chapters and story dlcs, we have 7 chapters, 9 story dlcs, roughly about 345 hours of content. If you play only about 1 hour per day, you've finished that within about a year. Further reduced if you play more than one hour daily - if you play 4 per average (which is quite possible, maybe a bit less on weekdays, a bit more on the weekend), you've finished all chapter and story dlc currently existing within 3 months. Suddenly it doesn't sound so overwhelming anymore, no?

To be fair, base game zones also exist and had more quests than the chapters, and there are also many other activities to do in ESO, but if we look closely, it's definitively not that a newbie could never catch up with existing story content. And I'm not talking about mindlessly running around and fastly clicking through dialogues, I had the impression that 30 hours seem about right per chapter, and I'm someone who enjoys the atmosphere, reads all lore books, listens to all dialogues and even talks to many random npcs within towns.

ADarklore wrote: »

However, they have the data showing how many players are completing trials, dungeons, etc... I don't... so they would know what content is most currently popular.

They might see the hours, but do they know about the motivations? I, for example, find the Archive truly boring, but I still run through it every now and then (normally if there's also a daily or weekly endeavor I can finish alongside, so I get several things finished at once) because I need the currency you get there to buy the lorebook furnishings I want for my main character's library.

Also, people are doing all kinds of activities if there's no story content left to play

Elsonso wrote: »

Only 6% made it all the way to Level 50 and spent that first Champion Point. At least, on XBox.

Sounds like many people start the game and leave after a short time. Reaching level 50 really doesn't take that long.

Muizer

Syldras wrote: »

I personally don't think players who are interested in questing and stories suddenly lose interest in them just because they're active for a longer time (there might be other reasons, like bad writing quality...).

Perhaps I'm the only one. I've been with this game for 10 years and my interest in the stories is definitely declining because they always follow essentially the same game play format. No matter how good the story, at some point the activity of traveling from quest marker to quest marker stops being interesting. New systems actually give me something to figure out. A reason to re-invent my character or develop new ones. The stories don't.

AzuraFan

Syldras wrote: »

If someone plays only 1 hour per day, they've finished one whole chapter within one month, and one story dlc (that had 15 hours, I believe) in 2 weeks. So if we count together all current chapters and story dlcs, we have 7 chapters, 9 story dlcs, roughly about 345 hours of content. If you play only about 1 hour per day, you've finished that within about a year. Further reduced if you play more than one hour daily - if you play 4 per average (which is quite possible, maybe a bit less on weekdays, a bit more on the weekend), you've finished all chapter and story dlc currently existing within 3 months. Suddenly it doesn't sound so overwhelming anymore, no?

The addition of AwA also blew away replayability of the story content for some players. I would have happily replayed through the story content many times if not for that. But since everything is pretty much completed now on a new character, there isn't any point for me. ZOS shot itself in the foot regarding players like me.

Sure, I'd love tons of new story content every year. But realistically that isn't going to happen. However, 30 hours of story content a year (I think it's less, actually) isn't enough to keep story and questing addicts going. I've said in the past that I'd happily BUY quest packs from the crown store, small story arcs that maybe take a few hours to complete and that can take place in EXISTING zones. Just give me more to do that doesn't involve repeating the same old dailies or endless combat.

Also, I agree with ZOS that they need repeatable systems and that's one direction they're going in. However, there needs to be variety. Not just combat-based like the infinite archive, or the shallow dailies we have now. More interesting dailies, and more systems like antiquities.

I'll be watching the January reveal with interest. I'm hoping to see something that will appeal to me beyond the annual chapter, because as you said and I agree, the annual chapter is not a whole lot of content when it comes to story and quests, so I'm hoping it will deliver a system that someone like me is interested in.

MindOfTheSwarm

Just add some non-class skill lines or even just one with actual usable skills that incorporate under represented elemental damage types and I’ll be happy.
Hedge Magic for example. Just need to make sure there is at least one non ult skill for each damage type. Perhaps Disease gets more as it has so few skills attached to it.

Elsonso

AzuraFan wrote: »

The addition of AwA also blew away replayability of the story content for some players. I would have happily replayed through the story content many times if not for that. But since everything is pretty much completed now on a new character, there isn't any point for me. ZOS shot itself in the foot regarding players like me.

Yes. Tamriel Once.

AzuraFan wrote: »

I'll be watching the January reveal with interest. I'm hoping to see something that will appeal to me beyond the annual chapter, because as you said and I agree, the annual chapter is not a whole lot of content when it comes to story and quests, so I'm hoping it will deliver a system that someone like me is interested in.

I am not exactly sure what to make of the 2024, yet. Firor talked about balancing story content with dungeon and trial content, but I'm not sure what that means. I'm not sure that I can see his perspective.

Syldras

Muizer wrote: »

Perhaps I'm the only one. I've been with this game for 10 years and my interest in the stories is definitely declining because they always follow essentially the same game play format. No matter how good the story, at some point the activity of traveling from quest marker to quest marker stops being interesting.

In my opinion, good story writing would be more than just having an interesting narration, but would also include quest design that's more creative than just running around fetching or killing something. Riddles, different tasks, at least a few surprising events! The base game quests were more variable in that regard. Sometimes I think they've run out of creative ideas meanwhile.

AzuraFan wrote: »

The addition of AwA also blew away replayability of the story content for some players. I would have happily replayed through the story content many times if not for that. But since everything is pretty much completed now on a new character, there isn't any point for me. ZOS shot itself in the foot regarding players like me.

I still replay every now and then, but yes, AwA has ruined most of it. If I play on a character who has never been to a region of Tamriel before, I don't want to see every place on the map marked as completed, let alone I want that character to be "savior of" that region. Achievements are also less fun if they're not really divided per character anymore.

AzuraFan wrote: »

Sure, I'd love tons of new story content every year. But realistically that isn't going to happen. However, 30 hours of story content a year (I think it's less, actually) isn't enough to keep story and questing addicts going. I've said in the past that I'd happily BUY quest packs from the crown store, small story arcs that maybe take a few hours to complete and that can take place in EXISTING zones.

I'd also be willing to pay for that. Extra companions with their own storyline, too, btw.

Elsonso wrote: »

I am not exactly sure what to make of the 2024, yet. Firor talked about balancing story content with dungeon and trial content, but I'm not sure what that means. I'm not sure that I can see his perspective.

To me, in that context, "balancing" sounds like an euphemism for "reducing".

Elsonso

Syldras wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I am not exactly sure what to make of the 2024, yet. Firor talked about balancing story content with dungeon and trial content, but I'm not sure what that means. I'm not sure that I can see his perspective.

To me, in that context, "balancing" sounds like an euphemism for "reducing".

Yes, that is the obvious message.

Since I they have done so much story and dungeon content every year, it makes me wonder why they would think it is out of balance. Seems we have a lot of both.

Syldras

Elsonso wrote: »

Since I they have done so much story and dungeon content every year, it makes me wonder why they would think it is out of balance. Seems we have a lot of both.

The question to me is: Do they even really think that? It's a marketing text and some drivel about "balancing" and "improving" (it's always "improving" of course, no matter what they do) sounds much better than, just as an example, "We reduce story content because good writers and voice actors are expensive and we want to reduce costs".

AzuraFan

Syldras wrote: »

The question to me is: Do they even really think that? It's a marketing text and some drivel about "balancing" and "improving" (it's always "improving" of course, no matter what they do) sounds much better than, just as an example, "We reduce story content because good writers and voice actors are expensive and we want to reduce costs".

My guess is that ESO doesn't have as many dev resources on it as it used to, so they want (need) to reuse assets and reduce labour-intensive tasks (like story content, which requires writers, voice actors, etc.) and focus on systems that don't require that. The infinite archive is one example, where the environment and most of the enemies are reused assets. There's not a heck of a lot new there.

Unfortunately, that means those of us who primarily enjoy story content could be disappointed from here on out. I guess we'll see how this year plays out. If ZOS releases interesting new systems, it could be okay. If not, then...

TaSheen

AzuraFan wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

The question to me is: Do they even really think that? It's a marketing text and some drivel about "balancing" and "improving" (it's always "improving" of course, no matter what they do) sounds much better than, just as an example, "We reduce story content because good writers and voice actors are expensive and we want to reduce costs".

My guess is that ESO doesn't have as many dev resources on it as it used to, so they want (need) to reuse assets and reduce labour-intensive tasks (like story content, which requires writers, voice actors, etc.) and focus on systems that don't require that. The infinite archive is one example, where the environment and most of the enemies are reused assets. There's not a heck of a lot new there.

Unfortunately, that means those of us who primarily enjoy story content could be disappointed from here on out. I guess we'll see how this year plays out. If ZOS releases interesting new systems, it could be okay. If not, then...

Yeah. There's a point at which.... and I'm not there yet. But I might be before much longer....

Eyr0n

AzuraFan wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

The question to me is: Do they even really think that? It's a marketing text and some drivel about "balancing" and "improving" (it's always "improving" of course, no matter what they do) sounds much better than, just as an example, "We reduce story content because good writers and voice actors are expensive and we want to reduce costs".

My guess is that ESO doesn't have as many dev resources on it as it used to, so they want (need) to reuse assets and reduce labour-intensive tasks (like story content, which requires writers, voice actors, etc.) and focus on systems that don't require that. The infinite archive is one example, where the environment and most of the enemies are reused assets. There's not a heck of a lot new there.

Unfortunately, that means those of us who primarily enjoy story content could be disappointed from here on out. I guess we'll see how this year plays out. If ZOS releases interesting new systems, it could be okay. If not, then...

In my opinion this has more to do with player retention, if you just make quest/story players will come and do the story and then wait for next chapter, whereas with replayable content players tend to stay longer, as they have scores to push, gear to farm -> ways to feel they are getting more powerfull

And eso has a hard time keeping its vets, I see new players join the game really often, but as many vets ( questers, raiders, pvpers..) leaving the game because they feel they've seen it all and dont have much to do anymore

vsrs_au

I can't believe how many assumptions some forum members are making about how long it takes to play an ESO chapter. The fact is, we all play the game at different rates. For me, it takes heaps more than 30 hours to finish the quests for a whole chapter, because of my play style.

lillybit

vsrs_au wrote: »

I can't believe how many assumptions some forum members are making about how long it takes to play an ESO chapter. The fact is, we all play the game at different rates. For me, it takes heaps more than 30 hours to finish the quests for a whole chapter, because of my play style.

On the other end of the scale, if all you're doing in a chapter is the main quest, without any of the side quests, it's much quicker.

The 30 hours figure comes straight from ZoS tho, that's generally how long they say chapters are.

I'd debate it anyway, I've always finished all quests in a new chapter in a couple of days and I don't play 15 hours a day!