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Dear devs: do you realise that your content beta testers are not you average player? I beg you read

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Most game testers are above average or even gifted. When you have players testing yoir content that are streamers and also on usa servers witb the best ping ever...yea great content creators cos they are above average then please i beg you...take into consideration that most of us paying and playing your game are either average players or below average but we all want to feel like heros in our favourite game...not like losers..frustrated all the time.
I get it that there is this belief that we all want to strive to be the best so putting out hard content will get players all fired up and working towards beating this hard ass content but most players cannot so you are essentially frustrating you bigger game pool of players.
Just make it average to good player friendly...not for the few elite player ...i beg.
I honestly had started to believe that yall had caught up with the fact that most of your customers are not elite. Please i beg make eso online more like TES again...for all of us. Please zos.
Ive been playing eso since launch i know what im saying...i love eso so much.
Endless archive is called an Arena by xynode...a streamer ...to us average players it was meant to be an endless dungeon not another arena.also you have yet again aimed to please the above average player base which btw is not as huge as your average player base.,why?

Help @ZOS_RichLambert
I know eso is your baby ...we love your baby and have seen him grow..pls listen to us
Thank you with much ❤

Edited by ZOS_Volpe on November 15, 2023 7:11PM
  • ZhuJiuyin
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    I guess some people think EA is difficult. Part of the reason is that there are still many bugs and imbalances in EA. For example, pets will die immediately in AOE, and some boss mechanisms are not adjusted according to the venue (such as dragons).

    To be honest, EA isn't particularly difficult, I've successfully completed 5-0-0 and got the achievement, and I'm using sorc without a pet. (But I have to say, the experience was very bad)
    "是燭九陰,是燭龍。"──by "The Classic of Mountains and Seas "English is not my first language,If something is ambiguous, rude due to context and translation issues, etc., please remind me, thanks.
  • Danikat
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    ZhuJiuyin wrote: »
    I guess some people think EA is difficult. Part of the reason is that there are still many bugs and imbalances in EA. For example, pets will die immediately in AOE, and some boss mechanisms are not adjusted according to the venue (such as dragons).

    To be honest, EA isn't particularly difficult, I've successfully completed 5-0-0 and got the achievement, and I'm using sorc without a pet. (But I have to say, the experience was very bad)

    I haven't actually tried EA yet (not something that interest me) but how difficult something is often depends on the player, and their build, as much as the enemy design.

    I once inadvertently started a massive argument in guild chat because I said I was having trouble with a boss in Maelstrom Arena (which turned out to be due to too much DPS, meaning it was moving through phases too quickly and I was ignoring the adds and other mechanics, trying to focus only on getting the boss down quickly). Some people tried to give me constructive advice (which is how I found out what I was doing wrong) but other people got into a huge circular debate about whether or not it's easy. And that's just within one social guild, where many people regularly play together and know there's different levels of skill and experience and different expectations.

    In my case it was pretty much a skill and perception issue - I hadn't expected something in an ESO solo area to have mechanics beyond 'don't stand in the AoE, dodge the big attacks and burn the boss down in between' and that had worked for all the previous bosses so I kept trying to do it again and didn't realise they actually made the fights more interesting after a few rounds. Someone who had done trials (and possibly vet DLC dungeons?) would probably have expected that.
    PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    "Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"
  • Braffin
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    @Elsonso

    Care to elaborate your thinking regarding EA?

    As far as sources are available the feedback of players (here in forums as well as other media and in-game) is overwhelmingly positive overall. I see a lot of people, which call themselves casual, enjoying EA very much.

    Do you have other sources at your hands? If yes, which ones?

    I'd also like to ask you about your personal experiences with EA: Did you already try? How far did you go? Which bosses did you get? What parts do you consider well done and what was difficult for you?

    I'm sure your opinion about EA and how the "average player" is doing in there isn't solely based on thin air. Unfortunately due to missing details in your post it comes exactly that way.
    Edited by Braffin on November 15, 2023 12:34PM
    Never get between a cat and it's candy!
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    Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.
  • Ph1p
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    Elsonso wrote: »
    There is apparently a comparatively narrow group in the middle that is in Archive heaven while everyone else complains that it is too hard or too easy. :neutral:

    I would expect ESO to look at actual EA statistics after a few weeks (incl. on console) to evaluate its difficulty. How many people get how far? How much does it correlate with certain builds or CP level? What do they get stuck on? Do they end the run with threads intact or all gone?

    Qualitative feedback on this forum can be helpful, but the majority will always be from people who have an issue with it. With this bias, it’s impossible to say what the majority of players actually experience.
  • Elsonso
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    Ph1p wrote: »
    Elsonso wrote: »
    There is apparently a comparatively narrow group in the middle that is in Archive heaven while everyone else complains that it is too hard or too easy. :neutral:

    I would expect ESO to look at actual EA statistics after a few weeks (incl. on console) to evaluate its difficulty. How many people get how far? How much does it correlate with certain builds or CP level? What do they get stuck on? Do they end the run with threads intact or all gone?

    Qualitative feedback on this forum can be helpful, but the majority will always be from people who have an issue with it. With this bias, it’s impossible to say what the majority of players actually experience.

    I am fairly certain that the metrics they get from people actually playing content eclipses the "too hard" and "too easy" comments.
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    XBox NA: @ElsonsoJannus
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • Braffin
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    Elsonso wrote: »
    Ph1p wrote: »
    Elsonso wrote: »
    There is apparently a comparatively narrow group in the middle that is in Archive heaven while everyone else complains that it is too hard or too easy. :neutral:

    I would expect ESO to look at actual EA statistics after a few weeks (incl. on console) to evaluate its difficulty. How many people get how far? How much does it correlate with certain builds or CP level? What do they get stuck on? Do they end the run with threads intact or all gone?

    Qualitative feedback on this forum can be helpful, but the majority will always be from people who have an issue with it. With this bias, it’s impossible to say what the majority of players actually experience.

    I am fairly certain that the metrics they get from people actually playing content eclipses the "too hard" and "too easy" comments.

    Yes, metrics are surely the most important factor in making decisions.

    I for myself am quite certain, that feedback from players, which actually played the content they are talking about is far more important for zos than general assumptions from people which couldn't yet be bothered with making their own experiences.
    Edited by Braffin on November 15, 2023 1:47PM
    Never get between a cat and it's candy!
    ---
    Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.
  • Elsonso
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    Claiming that the game caters to elite players is... certainly a take.

    90% of the games content is overland. Every single overland zone, barring the one "endgame" zone Craglorn, is so laughably easy that even wearing a gear set will trivialize the content. Make no mistake - 90% of the content in this game is geared to casuals.

    I don't think it is the case for added content, which seems to be biased towards mid-game and end-game players, the latter of which tend to be where the "elite" reside.

    I don't believe that Endless Archive is for the "elites", as this is an applied term rather than a descriptive one, but it is for the mid and end-game players for DUO play and in the end-game range for SOLO play.
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    XBox NA: @ElsonsoJannus
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • CameraBeardThePirate
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    Elsonso wrote: »
    Claiming that the game caters to elite players is... certainly a take.

    90% of the games content is overland. Every single overland zone, barring the one "endgame" zone Craglorn, is so laughably easy that even wearing a gear set will trivialize the content. Make no mistake - 90% of the content in this game is geared to casuals.

    I don't think it is the case for added content, which seems to be biased towards mid-game and end-game players, the latter of which tend to be where the "elite" reside.

    I don't believe that Endless Archive is for the "elites", as this is an applied term rather than a descriptive one, but it is for the mid and end-game players for DUO play and in the end-game range for SOLO play.

    Is it really though? Every expansion adds a faceroll-easy questline. Every dungeon DLC still has normal modes which can usually be soloed in a half decent build, or easily completed with a group. None of the normal versions of the DLC content is particularly hard to clear so long as you're breaking 20k dps, which can be accomplished with an hour of practice tops.

    Yes, all of the dlc dungeons are difficult on vet - but that's the point of vet. They can all still be completed by "casuals" on normal. EA is the same - the first Arc is on-par with normal base-game content. Far from catering to "elites".
  • ZOS_Volpe
    ZOS_Volpe
    admin
    Greetings,

    As we've removed a few comments that were baiting and bashing, this is a friendly reminder that comments need to adhere to our Community Rules to avoid thread derailment.

    Thanks for your understanding.
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
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    Staff Post
  • chessalavakia_ESO
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    Recent wrote: »
    Most game testers are above average or even gifted. When you have players testing yoir content that are streamers and also on usa servers witb the best ping ever...yea great content creators cos they are above average then please i beg you...take into consideration that most of us paying and playing your game are either average players or below average but we all want to feel like heros in our favourite game...not like losers..frustrated all the time.
    I get it that there is this belief that we all want to strive to be the best so putting out hard content will get players all fired up and working towards beating this hard ass content but most players cannot so you are essentially frustrating you bigger game pool of players.
    Just make it average to good player friendly...not for the few elite player ...i beg.
    I honestly had started to believe that yall had caught up with the fact that most of your customers are not elite. Please i beg make eso online more like TES again...for all of us. Please zos.
    Ive been playing eso since launch i know what im saying...i love eso so much.
    Endless archive is called an Arena by xynode...a streamer ...to us average players it was meant to be an endless dungeon not another arena.also you have yet again aimed to please the above average player base which btw is not as huge as your average player base.,why?

    Help @ZOS_RichLambert
    I know eso is your baby ...we love your baby and have seen him grow..pls listen to us
    Thank you with much ❤

    If you haven't already seen it, here's a relatively long interview regarding the archive.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ily2xhGU6HA

    I would not hold out hope for significant changes.

    The archive isn't the way it is because it was rushed or because they listened to primarily feedback from elite current players.

    It's the way it is because that's what the developers wanted.


    Plus, at this point it's probably already too late to be worth bothering with as by the time you'd actually have any significant changes implemented the players will have either adapted, quit doing it, or lost interest in even considering doing it.


    Finally, I'd argue that the Endless Archive's design fundamentally diminishes the world from a story perspective as the choice to copy npcs can diminish them as characters as well as potentially spoil story elements.
  • Elsonso
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    Tandor wrote: »
    Elsonso wrote: »
    Claiming that the game caters to elite players is... certainly a take.

    90% of the games content is overland. Every single overland zone, barring the one "endgame" zone Craglorn, is so laughably easy that even wearing a gear set will trivialize the content. Make no mistake - 90% of the content in this game is geared to casuals.

    I don't think it is the case for added content, which seems to be biased towards mid-game and end-game players, the latter of which tend to be where the "elite" reside.

    I don't believe that Endless Archive is for the "elites", as this is an applied term rather than a descriptive one, but it is for the mid and end-game players for DUO play and in the end-game range for SOLO play.

    Is it really though? Every expansion adds a faceroll-easy questline. Every dungeon DLC still has normal modes which can usually be soloed in a half decent build, or easily completed with a group. None of the normal versions of the DLC content is particularly hard to clear so long as you're breaking 20k dps, which can be accomplished with an hour of practice tops.

    Yes, all of the dlc dungeons are difficult on vet - but that's the point of vet. They can all still be completed by "casuals" on normal. EA is the same - the first Arc is on-par with normal base-game content. Far from catering to "elites".

    Unfortunately, that point is rather defeated by the name of the content. "Endless" implies rather more than "the first Arc".

    Yes, but there is a daily quest associated with the Endless Archive that gives it an ending.
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    XBox NA: @ElsonsoJannus
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
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